Outspoken games designer Peter Molyneux is never short of an opinion or two, and has recently been dishing the dirt on the PlayStation 3. While talking about the PS3's library, the Fable 2 creator revealed his love for Square-Enix's iconic PSX title Final Fantasy VII, naming it as something that defined RPGs.
"I always remember back to Final Fantasy VII, when I first played FFVII, that to me defined the genre," he stated. "Those were the 'oh my god' moments, I don't believe they exist. I haven't seen many of those on the PS3."
Molyneux pointed out that his statements are made from the perspective of a gamer and "not as an industry spokesman," just in case anyone accuses him of 360 bias. He happens to own all three major consoles.
We could talk for many boring hours about the PS3's game library, but I'm more interested in his belief that FFVII defined RPGs. It's indeed a very personal belief, and one that I actually share. Being a European and someone who grew up on the Sega side of the fence, it wasn't until VII that I really got to learn what an RPG was, and how powerful a storytelling device videogames could be. Some FF fans delight in sh*tting on VII, probably because it was so popular, but it was an important game for many people, especially those of us in our early twenties. It was not just genre defining, but gamer defining.
What say you?
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21 comments + 95764 views
I think Sony is hoping Little Big Planet is that game, whether or not it is who knows. LBP looks fun but I think it's a touch overhyped.
I say you're absolutely right: "true" Final Fantasy fans love to trash VII because it is so popular.
I also busted my Final Fantasy hymen on that one, so it holds a special place in my heart, and while it might not be entirely deserving of all the praise it gets, it's also not deserving of all the hate it gets.
FF VII was important to me. It was the first true 'RPG' that I ever played, and it obviously did it's job because now I play RPGs more than any other type of game, and VII is certainly a benchmark to compare them to.
I love VII, it was my first real JRPG. After that, every other console RPG got compared to that one game. Also partly because of the Sega bias in my early years :)
:(
I am disappointed in all of you!
You're right with the "important game for many people, especially those of us in our early twenties" statement. Like many other gamers, FFVII was one of our first, if not THE first, venture into the realm of RPGs, and a great one at that.
I also agree with what Fable dude said about the lack of RPGs for the PS3. It's kind of interesting to note the shift from the Sony-heavy/Microsoft-soft RPG library of the last generation to the Sony-soft/Microsoft-heavy RPG library of the current generation. Hopefully, it'll shift back so I can get my appetite curbed.
VII was the second RPG I ever played, the first being Super Mario RPG. VII will always be special to me, despite the whoring it's been through this millennium.
The way game designers are throwing their two cents worth regarding the PS3 and their software, you could make that a weekly feature on the front page, Jim.
As for FFVII... I dug it a lot. But OMG status I'll reserve for games like Ico and Shadow of Colussus.
"He happens to own all three major consoles." I love that defense.
Also, I never got to play FFVII, so that might be why I never got all that into RPGs. Maybe someday.
I think FF7 is a good game, but I think it gets too much praise as being genre-defining. It basically followed genre conventions to a t, while throwing in some breathtaking FMV.
In terms of the actual story, I think you can make the case that FF6 is better. There are more characters, the non-Cloud characters are less developed in FF7 than most of the characters in FF6, the themes are more mature, and they aren't as based on Evangelion-type (wtf?) moments.
FF7, however, did up the bar on presentation. Insofar as that was genre defining, however, I think it may have done some damage. It has left RPG's concentrating more and more on wacky magic systems, FMV, and minigames. FF7 managed to take the solid core of FF4/FF6 and throw in some candy. RPG's since have mostly been about the candy.
Also, as an old school RPG-er, I kind of miss the days when RPG's could be beaten in 20-30 hours, and when you didn't have to worry about collecting every secret in every scene or risking a shitty ending or something. Honestly, the whole thing has turned me against the genre. Out of the last 3 generations (including the PS1/N64, PS2/Xbox/GC, and the current generation), I've only beaten like 5 traditional RPG's: Chrono Cross, Xenogears, Final Fantasy 7, Suikoden, and Final Fantasy 10. Out of those, only 1 was not from the PS1 generation, and none were modern traditional RPG's. It's not from lack of effort.. I just don't give a crap enough anymore.
I love VII, it's my favorite RPG of all time. I know I've played better RPGS than VII, I know there are better FF games than VII, VI namely. It's just that I enjoyed it the most. I remember becoming very attached to the characters, and actually caring what happened to them.
At the end of the game I just stared at that black screen with the green dots flying towards you for the longest time, just waiting for something, anything, to happen. I couldn't believe it was over. It's the most memorable gaming experience I've ever had, and I morn to know that today's games don't have the same appeal. I know it's probably a case of "everything was better when you were a kid", I'm sure rising gamers have their own "FFVII" game, and I'm sure their kids will have their own, but FFVII was mine.
VII and Xenosaga were the two games that made me fall in love with RPG's. After that I went and played several previous released RPG's and now I gobble up anything in the genre. Tho Infinite Undiscovery almost successfully ruined the genre for me while at the same time make me search for hours why Undiscovery is underlined in red when I type it only to remember it's not really a F***ing word.
I feel that Warhawk has a lot of those "OMG" moments. The game feels huge and epic and was one of the main reasons I got my PS3. Incognito created a shooter that changed my expectations for what the genre should deliver. Also LittleBigPlanet is what made me change my opinion of Sony this generation and even consider getting a PS3 in the first place. It's not everybody's cup of tea, but a coop platformer where you can create and share levels is something the really interests me.
But everyone should have a different opinion.
If 'ol Molyneux wants a OMG RPG on the PS3, why doesn't he shift over and do it himself?
Also this is a Jim Sterling article so the first ten or so replies are going to be intelligent, then someone will start a flame war, and Jim will become personally involved. Then it will be on.
I love your articles, Jim.
I'm kind of surprised by the whole "early 20's = FF7 first RPG" thing going on here. I'm 23, and my first action RPG was Zelda for the NES. My first real RPG was Final Fantasy for the NES. Sure, I could barely read, but I beat that God damn game at the age of 7.
killias2:
All fair points, but again this is why it's important to note that this is a personal thing. FFVII is definite to a lot of people because it was their first taste of a JRPG. Jumping to the PlayStation, Squaresoft put Final Fantasy into the hands of way more people than it ever had done, and as I said, it helped to shape the gaming tastes of a lot of the newer generation of gamers at the time, myself included.
It may not have been definitive in terms of what it did as a game, but what it did as a cultural staple of the industry was genre-defining indeed.
I totally meant Xenogears, F*** xenosaga
Jim, there was a lot of great RPG action on the snes back then.
If people think FF VII was the first "true RPG" then I'm afraid you guys have missed out on a lot.
Lufia 2, Crono Trigger, Mario RPG(yes, I love the damn game) Final Fantasy 2 and 3 (FF 4 and 6 in Japan).
There are much more I never got play.
I think Final Fantasy VII is severely overrated, but just because something is overrated doesn't necessarily mean it's bad. FFVII is an excellent game that allowed tons of people to experience their first JRPG and I respect their extra love for the game.
One of my problems, however, is that it also helped usher in an age of gamers that consider all previous Final Fantasy games (as well as other games outside the series) to be inferior because of the lack of 3D graphics. This bothers me to no end considering I hold FFVI in extremely high regard and see so many people mindlessly emphasizing style over substance. Oh well, I suppose it's not just limited to the Final Fantasy games.
Another thing that bothers me about FFVII--and it's not necessarily the fault of the game itself--is that we see a huge number of Final Fantasy cliches born in that game. I'm not talking about recurring bits like Cid and Chocobos, I'm talking about characters, plot devices, and a hoard of other tropes that we delight in bashing the series for today (and rightly so).
I totally agree. FFIV defined the next generation of RPG's that persists today...
The only OMG moment I've experienced on PS3 was thanks to MGS4.
"Jim, there was a lot of great RPG action on the snes back then.
If people think FF VII was the first "true RPG" then I'm afraid you guys have missed out on a lot."
Nobody's saying that. FFVII was not the first true RPG, of course not. It was, however, the first gateway to RPGs for a lot of people.
DAMN, I meant FFVII... tho I guess accidentally saying FFIV isn't too far off...
I wouldn't say FF VII defined rpgs. There are other games that came before it that are arguably 'better'. Calling Final Fantasy VII the defining RPG is like calling Star Wars a defining Theatre experience over Shakespeare. WRONG!
Plus FFVII makes my eyes hurt >.<
I think what Fable Dude meant to imply was that FFVII defined "modern RPGs". That, I believe, people can agree with.
Crystalis for the NES took my virginity but FFVII is the best sex I ever had!
I loved FVII, but I was a Squaresoft fanboy before there was a bandwagon so my heart will always belong to VI
somebody say my name?
I would say Ultima VII defined the RPG genre more than any RPG after it but sadly it gets no credit.
truthfully, all FFVII did for me was actually get me back into a series I knew nothing of.....oh and that the genre Chrono Trigger was in was RPGs.
Chrono Trigger redefined games and RPGs for me. Mainly cause I didn't know what a RPG was and that I took it as a different way of playing a action/adventure game. Plus Ayla hot. How I deny?
Jim,
I never say its a bad game, and I freely admit that it opened the door to a lot of people. I just think that its actual impact on the genre was less substantial than many assume and, in many ways, may have been negative in the long-term. That's not a judgement of the game itself. I think its a great game. It's in my top 3 favorite main-series FF games (behind FF6, everything else is negotiable). The fact that I've beaten the game twice in very different periods of life is illustrative enough.
However, the focus on FMV's, minigames, melodrama (granted, this was always an issue with RPG's, but I think FF7 upped the bar), FAQ-necessitating secrets, etc. have probably had a negative impact on the genre since. Again, these were all great elements within FF7! But the ripples have been pretty depressing.
I'm not sure what it will take to get me seriously interested in J-RPG's again. FF10 almost had me back, but Final Fantasy 12 was so God awful.. that it undid all of FF10's work and then some.
A new Chrono Trigger, a sequel to the REAL Phantasy Star series, or a sequel to FF6 could get me going. I'm likely to spend some time on Crisis Core once I.. find some time with it. I'm also curious about the prequel to FF4. However, most of the main J-RPG's coming out these days just seem so... bland, generic, and wasteful of my time.
While FF7 isn't the best in the series (4, 10, and 12 are all better), it's arguably the most influential. A good 95% of JRPGs in the last decade have ripped it off wholeheartedly. Moreover, it was for a lot of people, myself included, the game that got us into JRPGs. Without FF7, I'd never have gotten into Suikoden 2 and Persona 2. The reason people hate FF7 so much is that as DragonBall did for manga, FF7 did for JRPGs. It's themes and plot have been rehashed so much throughout the years, it's become cliched.
Just another opinion, as far as I'm concerned. Several minutes into Uncharted: Drakes Fortune (as well as Ratchet & Clank: Tools of Destruction), I was having plenty of those moments of Holy Shit... and it only got better from there.
Slick, two points:
1. As much as J-RPG's have ripped it off since its release (which is arguable, IMO), FF7 ripped off all of its predecessors. The battle system IS FF4's battle system. And the whole "minor evil, epic evil, highly mobile/airship sidequest phase, final battle" series of events is pretty much in every Final Fantasy (and plenty of other RPG's).
I think where FF7 had its impact was in presentation. There you can make the argument. However, I still wonder if RPG's wouldn't have ended at the same place anyway. FF7 was, in a lot of ways, just following other genres into the third dimension. In fact, I think FF7's only truly lasting impact is, as Jim has said, probably its impact on fans rather than on developers. It made RPG's more popular.
2. FF12 is terrible.
Honestly, I have to say VII was my gateway RPG. It something I actually go back to every year or so, so that I may bask in it's nostalgia (well, the nostalgia that I've gained from it).
Maybe it isn't the game itself that attracted me as a kid, so much as it was the atmosphere that I shared with the others around me.
But any way around it, it's the one that made me look for other RPG's, hoping to find something of similar immersion..and I don't think that's truly happened in a long time.
I agree with killias. FF 12 is terrible.
I always wondered why FF7 got so much hate considering it's a fairly good RPG. Then again I also wondered why fanboys thought Cloud was the second coming of Jesus.
Honestly, I have to say VII was my gateway RPG. It something I actually go back to every year or so, so that I may bask in it's nostalgia (well, the nostalgia that I've gained from it).
Maybe it isn't the game itself that attracted me as a kid, so much as it was the atmosphere that I shared with the others around me.
But any way around it, it's the one that made me look for other RPG's, hoping to find something of similar immersion..and I don't think that's truly happened in a long time.
FFVII was my first non-mario RPG, so it will always hold a special place in my heart. I've gone through the game more times than any other.
It makes me feel delightfully elitist seeing so many people say they started RPGs on FF7. The first RPGs I played were FF1 occasionally at my cousin's on his NES. And FF2(4) in 1991 when it was released. Then I quickly expanded to play Ogre Battle, Secret of Mana, Secret of Evermore, and Chrono Trigger. Thank you, THANK YOU ALL!
Really? What about MGS4? How is that not as 'OMG' as FFVII? Well, I'll never know. I personally don't like FFVII, and JRPGs are my least favorite genre by far. I do like Western RPGs though, but I won't be picking up Molyneux's game. Saving for Fallout 3.
Final fantasy 7 was crap, that is when final fantasy games stared going down hill and the entire series out wore it welcome by final fantasy 6.
They could not even keep there gimmicky FMV (obviously Cd video crap that only wow people who did not have sega CD/TG cD or a PC that seems to be everybody obviously) straight one secound it is Crappy models the next it is even more crappy models that are obviously not the same ones.
the whole game is like a playing a sucktasic ps1 tech demo held togeather with ducktape and no game worth anything, and the story was crap.
the only game worse than it is final fantasy 8 wich is the intsterment of evil to tourture mainkind, with constant summoning slow ass lame draw system and even crapper story.
Oh and more random battle, somthing wich chrono trigger perfected a battle system that is not annoying as hell but final fantasy still has not figured out.
Hell they have not even figured out how to copy anything from chrono trigger to make any final fantsy decent. Chrono tigger is still more modern than final fantasy and it was made in 1995.
But hey at least they tried change the damn with final fantsy 12 at least that one did not annoy the hell out of me.
And I think game spot says it best where final fantasy 8 showed it's ugly ass face in there april fools joke where they sarcasticly Pwn the worst final fantay has to offer.
http://www.gamespot.com/features/6146818/p-9.html
God that was one of the worst games sqaure has ever made, excpet for that whole dirge of cerberus thing that even made 7 suck more than it did in 1997.
Secret of Mana was my first: OMG! feel of rpg in the snes, then zelda (snes), then ff7, to xenogears, to fft, to then vandal hearts.
I feel sad that the last game I had that magical "OMG jrpg feeling" was on the PS2's Odins Sphere. I purchased Disgaea 1, 2 for the PS2 so I could get into the whole story before getting 3 for the PS3, but while I am trying to get into it I just can't seem to follow the ... crappy humor it has or the non-serious style it is. I thought Disgaea would have a deep story instead of a: this kid is 135251050880 years old, n he just woke up cranky and now wants to destroy the earth.
just too lame, I am hoping somewhere it picks up... but no where near that...
"But hey at least they tried change the damn with final fantsy 12 at least that one did not annoy the hell out of me."
This is where you jumped the shark. Did you ever actually play FF12? Actually, maybe that's not such a good question. I plodded about in it for like 90 hours, and I'm not quite sure I ever "played" anything....
Bottom line: Molyneaux sold his company to Microsoft, and he cannot keep his big mouth shut anyway.
FFVII was my gateway RPG.
Now I'm addicted to all sorts of heavier RPGs.
I disagree completely. For me Final Fantasy 6 defined what RPG's are. It had everything FF7 did, except the 3D graphics.
Shining Force was my first 'great' RPG experience, but regardless of what shit people sling at FFVII, it was one of the few games I've ever played that entirely consumed me. I genuinely cared about the characters and the story, and the intensely atmospheric world was engrossing.
Since, I think the FF games have over complicated the combat systems, and despite the comments about #8, the only truely horrific FF game imo is #10, and the only one to come close to FFVII is FFXII.
That said, none of the games since 7 really have the heart that 7 does. It's a SAD game. The characters are relatively simple, as is the story. FFVII has the innocent appeal of classic Disney, or 80's fantasy like Neverending Story or Dark Crystal. The others tried to adult-it-up, in terms of character play and complicating the themes, and lost some of the naive appeal in the process.
Every RPG copied/wanted to be Dragon Quest until FFVII came out. Then every RPG after tries to be FFVII.
I saw an advertisement in a magazine and actually used a $10 off coupon for the game. I had played all U.S. released games since(although I was really too young to comrehend FF1 at the time) FF1 and wasnt missing getting the game on launch day, even though I didnt own a PS1 or a memory card! lol thank god for pushover neighbors!
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