I say you're absolutely right: "true" Final Fantasy fans love to trash VII because it is so popular.

I also busted my Final Fantasy hymen on that one, so it holds a special place in my heart, and while it might not be entirely deserving of all the praise it gets, it's also not deserving of all the hate it gets.

I love VII, it was my first real JRPG. After that, every other console RPG got compared to that one game. Also partly because of the Sega bias in my early years :)

You're right with the "important game for many people, especially those of us in our early twenties" statement. Like many other gamers, FFVII was one of our first, if not THE first, venture into the realm of RPGs, and a great one at that.

I also agree with what Fable dude said about the lack of RPGs for the PS3. It's kind of interesting to note the shift from the Sony-heavy/Microsoft-soft RPG library of the last generation to the Sony-soft/Microsoft-heavy RPG library of the current generation. Hopefully, it'll shift back so I can get my appetite curbed.

The way game designers are throwing their two cents worth regarding the PS3 and their software, you could make that a weekly feature on the front page, Jim.

As for FFVII... I dug it a lot. But OMG status I'll reserve for games like Ico and Shadow of Colussus.

I think FF7 is a good game, but I think it gets too much praise as being genre-defining. It basically followed genre conventions to a t, while throwing in some breathtaking FMV.

In terms of the actual story, I think you can make the case that FF6 is better. There are more characters, the non-Cloud characters are less developed in FF7 than most of the characters in FF6, the themes are more mature, and they aren't as based on Evangelion-type (wtf?) moments.

FF7, however, did up the bar on presentation. Insofar as that was genre defining, however, I think it may have done some damage. It has left RPG's concentrating more and more on wacky magic systems, FMV, and minigames. FF7 managed to take the solid core of FF4/FF6 and throw in some candy. RPG's since have mostly been about the candy.


Also, as an old school RPG-er, I kind of miss the days when RPG's could be beaten in 20-30 hours, and when you didn't have to worry about collecting every secret in every scene or risking a shitty ending or something. Honestly, the whole thing has turned me against the genre. Out of the last 3 generations (including the PS1/N64, PS2/Xbox/GC, and the current generation), I've only beaten like 5 traditional RPG's: Chrono Cross, Xenogears, Final Fantasy 7, Suikoden, and Final Fantasy 10. Out of those, only 1 was not from the PS1 generation, and none were modern traditional RPG's. It's not from lack of effort.. I just don't give a crap enough anymore.

VII and Xenosaga were the two games that made me fall in love with RPG's. After that I went and played several previous released RPG's and now I gobble up anything in the genre. Tho Infinite Undiscovery almost successfully ruined the genre for me while at the same time make me search for hours why Undiscovery is underlined in red when I type it only to remember it's not really a F***ing word.

If 'ol Molyneux wants a OMG RPG on the PS3, why doesn't he shift over and do it himself?

I'm kind of surprised by the whole "early 20's = FF7 first RPG" thing going on here. I'm 23, and my first action RPG was Zelda for the NES. My first real RPG was Final Fantasy for the NES. Sure, I could barely read, but I beat that God damn game at the age of 7.

I totally meant Xenogears, F*** xenosaga

I think Final Fantasy VII is severely overrated, but just because something is overrated doesn't necessarily mean it's bad. FFVII is an excellent game that allowed tons of people to experience their first JRPG and I respect their extra love for the game.

One of my problems, however, is that it also helped usher in an age of gamers that consider all previous Final Fantasy games (as well as other games outside the series) to be inferior because of the lack of 3D graphics. This bothers me to no end considering I hold FFVI in extremely high regard and see so many people mindlessly emphasizing style over substance. Oh well, I suppose it's not just limited to the Final Fantasy games.

Another thing that bothers me about FFVII--and it's not necessarily the fault of the game itself--is that we see a huge number of Final Fantasy cliches born in that game. I'm not talking about recurring bits like Cid and Chocobos, I'm talking about characters, plot devices, and a hoard of other tropes that we delight in bashing the series for today (and rightly so).

"Jim, there was a lot of great RPG action on the snes back then.

If people think FF VII was the first "true RPG" then I'm afraid you guys have missed out on a lot."

Nobody's saying that. FFVII was not the first true RPG, of course not. It was, however, the first gateway to RPGs for a lot of people.

I wouldn't say FF VII defined rpgs. There are other games that came before it that are arguably 'better'. Calling Final Fantasy VII the defining RPG is like calling Star Wars a defining Theatre experience over Shakespeare. WRONG!

Plus FFVII makes my eyes hurt >.<

Crystalis for the NES took my virginity but FFVII is the best sex I ever had!

somebody say my name?

truthfully, all FFVII did for me was actually get me back into a series I knew nothing of.....oh and that the genre Chrono Trigger was in was RPGs.

Chrono Trigger redefined games and RPGs for me. Mainly cause I didn't know what a RPG was and that I took it as a different way of playing a action/adventure game. Plus Ayla hot. How I deny?

While FF7 isn't the best in the series (4, 10, and 12 are all better), it's arguably the most influential. A good 95% of JRPGs in the last decade have ripped it off wholeheartedly. Moreover, it was for a lot of people, myself included, the game that got us into JRPGs. Without FF7, I'd never have gotten into Suikoden 2 and Persona 2. The reason people hate FF7 so much is that as DragonBall did for manga, FF7 did for JRPGs. It's themes and plot have been rehashed so much throughout the years, it's become cliched.

Slick, two points:

1. As much as J-RPG's have ripped it off since its release (which is arguable, IMO), FF7 ripped off all of its predecessors. The battle system IS FF4's battle system. And the whole "minor evil, epic evil, highly mobile/airship sidequest phase, final battle" series of events is pretty much in every Final Fantasy (and plenty of other RPG's).

I think where FF7 had its impact was in presentation. There you can make the argument. However, I still wonder if RPG's wouldn't have ended at the same place anyway. FF7 was, in a lot of ways, just following other genres into the third dimension. In fact, I think FF7's only truly lasting impact is, as Jim has said, probably its impact on fans rather than on developers. It made RPG's more popular.

2. FF12 is terrible.

I agree with killias. FF 12 is terrible.

I always wondered why FF7 got so much hate considering it's a fairly good RPG. Then again I also wondered why fanboys thought Cloud was the second coming of Jesus.

FFVII was my first non-mario RPG, so it will always hold a special place in my heart. I've gone through the game more times than any other.

Really? What about MGS4? How is that not as 'OMG' as FFVII? Well, I'll never know. I personally don't like FFVII, and JRPGs are my least favorite genre by far. I do like Western RPGs though, but I won't be picking up Molyneux's game. Saving for Fallout 3.

And I think game spot says it best where final fantasy 8 showed it's ugly ass face in there april fools joke where they sarcasticly Pwn the worst final fantay has to offer.


http://www.gamespot.com/features/6146818/p-9.html


God that was one of the worst games sqaure has ever made, excpet for that whole dirge of cerberus thing that even made 7 suck more than it did in 1997.

"But hey at least they tried change the damn with final fantsy 12 at least that one did not annoy the hell out of me."

This is where you jumped the shark. Did you ever actually play FF12? Actually, maybe that's not such a good question. I plodded about in it for like 90 hours, and I'm not quite sure I ever "played" anything....

FFVII was my gateway RPG.

Now I'm addicted to all sorts of heavier RPGs.

Shining Force was my first 'great' RPG experience, but regardless of what shit people sling at FFVII, it was one of the few games I've ever played that entirely consumed me. I genuinely cared about the characters and the story, and the intensely atmospheric world was engrossing.

Since, I think the FF games have over complicated the combat systems, and despite the comments about #8, the only truely horrific FF game imo is #10, and the only one to come close to FFVII is FFXII.

That said, none of the games since 7 really have the heart that 7 does. It's a SAD game. The characters are relatively simple, as is the story. FFVII has the innocent appeal of classic Disney, or 80's fantasy like Neverending Story or Dark Crystal. The others tried to adult-it-up, in terms of character play and complicating the themes, and lost some of the naive appeal in the process.

I saw an advertisement in a magazine and actually used a $10 off coupon for the game. I had played all U.S. released games since(although I was really too young to comrehend FF1 at the time) FF1 and wasnt missing getting the game on launch day, even though I didnt own a PS1 or a memory card! lol thank god for pushover neighbors!