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Miyamoto claims Mario Galaxy was conservative: Not enough pretend saxophone? photo

Former design icon and current maker of pretend videogames Shigeru Miyamoto has been casting a critical eye over his team's earlier Wii games, claiming that something was "missing" from Twilight Princess and that Super Mario Galaxy felt conservative.

"What I've been saying to our development teams recently is that Twilight Princess was not a bad game, by any means. But, still, it felt like there was something missing," explains the Wii Fit creator. "And while, personally, I feel like Super Mario Galaxy was able to do some things that were very new and were very unique, at the same time, from another perspective, certain elements of it do feel somewhat conservative in terms of how far we branched out with design. And so this is something I've been talking to both of those teams about."

These comments are very telling of Nintendo's current attitude. Both Twilight Princess and Mario Galaxy were, waggle aside, rather traditional videogames. That Shigeru Miyamoto is being so critical of these proper games -- arguably two of the very best titles available on the Wii -- says a lot about Nintendo and Miyamoto's approach to the games industry now. 

Twilight Princess and Mario Galaxy are conservative and lacking. Wii Fit and Wii Sports Resort? That's the future, folks! 

Someone pass me a sick bag ...


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66 comments | showing # 1 to 50

Mista Smegheneghan's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 08:05
Mista Smegheneghan
he can't really claim Twilight Princess as a Wii game, can he?!
Zerozaki Ishiki's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 08:08
Zerozaki Ishiki
Not really feeling the Mario conservative, but there was a fucking lot missing from Twilight Princess, which really wore out its welcome around the sky dungeon.
SWE3tMadness's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 08:09
SWE3tMadness
Yeah, Super Mario Galaxy was a bit conservative in the structure of the game. You had the new setting and gravity to play around with, but the end was still the same: collect stars, battle Bowser, rescue Peach.

And you know what, Miyamoto? IT WAS FUCKING AWESOME. Sometimes we don't really care about innovation, as long as the game is still fun. And Super Mario Galaxy balanced the traditional Mario platformer with new gameplay elements perfectly.
Mxyzptlk's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 08:11
Mxyzptlk
Nothing was missing from Twilight Princess. The problem was there was too much unnecessary boring shit to do.
flaming burrito's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 08:13
flaming burrito
Miyamoto seems like he's starting to lose it
J03yyz's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 08:14
J03yyz
I hate Miyamoto
JustLikeBuck's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 08:18
JustLikeBuck
Morrius's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 08:18
Morrius
I'd sold my Wii by the time Galaxy came out, but TP was definitely too conservative. No new ideas, nothing Okami hadn't already done.
JustLikeBuck's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 08:18
JustLikeBuck
Perhaps he wants them to be faster; more intense.

Maybe he was bored with constructing the massive worlds. Maybe he just wants to go back to the days of 2D?
Tron Knotts's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 08:21
Tron Knotts
I was none to pleased with these comments either, until I read them in the full context of the interview that they came from, where Miyamoto comments on Portal being an amazing game, and shows general concern for making his hardcore Nintendo games better, and not just more of the same.

I loved Mario Galaxy, really liked Twilight Princess, but can see why Miyamoto thinks both series need shaking up. If by missing something, he means min--games, then sure, he's a jerk. But if by missing something he means the Portal gun, online multi-player, brand new scenarios and gameplay mechanics, then I'm all for it.
PhazonYoshi's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 08:25
PhazonYoshi
Morrius, That's like saying 15 dolphins isn't awesome, just because 15 dolphins already exist.

TP&MG; Best wii games ever.
Jim Sterling's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 08:29
Jim Sterling
Tron:

I saw nothing in the interview that wasn't typical Miyamoto patter. I am sorry, but these constant criticisms against games for "not being innovative" are pathetic.

Innovation does not automatically = great. Lost Odyssey is one of these non-innovative RPGs that Miyamoto is critical of, but that doesn't take away from what is one of the most beautiful games of the year.
Projectexodus's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 08:30
Projectexodus
I loved Twilight Princess! But its definetly the last Zelda game of its kind that I ever want to play. They really need to change the formula! No more OoT clones!

I also loved Super Mario Galaxy, but I'm not sure how much they can do different with the franchise. The fact that the game took place in space made it refreshing enough. Maybe if they stopped using the "Bowser kidnaps Princess Peach" formula?
zombiekiller13's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 08:31
zombiekiller13
TP was a Gamecube game ported to the Wii with waggle controls. So it really doesn't count.

Galaxy...I enjoyed it...even though I didn't finish it. I really should. I'm not too far from the end; I just got distracted by other games.

So, if he doesn't like how they turned out, maybe they should work on a Zelda and Mario game that does change up the way we look at them...instead of pushing out Wii Music and Animal Crossing: It Looks Like The Other Two But Has Chat Capabilities.

Wheeeee...I mean...Wiiiiii...
Holyetheline's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 08:33
Holyetheline
Mario Galaxy was nothing short of extraordinary....
Phoenix Gamma's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 08:42
Phoenix Gamma
Actually, I'm totally with Miyamoto. I loved Twilight Princess and Mario Galaxy so much that I ran through them twice each within the same few months of their respective launches. While they were both good, everyone agrees that Twilight Princess was lacking something, and Galaxy could have been even more more creative (not that it wasn't).
Gameboi's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 09:01
Gameboi
Both games were nothing short of spectacular.
Cyberxion's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 09:06
Cyberxion
Think about it. Twilight Princess was pretty conservative. It's pretty-much OoT with a new coat of paint. There wasn't anything particularly new or exciting about it. It was a good game, but not much of a step up from what had come before it.

Mario Galaxy was great fun, but it didn't really exploit the new gameplay mechanics to the fullest extent of their potential either. Also, by and large, the level design wasn't anything you couldn't find in one of the earlier Mario games, only this time around it took place on spheres. It definitely took more chances than Twilight Princess, but overall, it was still a pretty standard platformer.

So I can certainly see where Miyamoto is coming from. I don't get how that's supposed to imply that he's satisfied with his casual shit, or if he even thinks they can, or have to be, held to similar standards, but whatever. I'm just eager to see if this attitude bears fruit.
TKurata's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 09:06
TKurata
gross
Hitogoroshi's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 09:06
Hitogoroshi
TP was meh. Galaxy on the other hand was amazing.
the Golden Avatar's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 09:14
the Golden Avatar
Galaxy was some of the most fun I've ever had playing a game. I didn't expect it to be so damn good.

Twilight Princess was pretty good, but it was the same thing we'd done in Ocarina of Time.
Cowzilla3's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 09:30
Cowzilla3
Yea I read the full interview and have to agree with Tron here. The comments were more directed at pushing the boundries of hardcore gaming not making every like Wii Fit. Very negative spin there on a quote that could be taken many ways.
Tron's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 09:30
Tron
I want to shoot Miyamoto in the dick.
atastysammich's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 09:30
atastysammich
Sega was on to something by visibly keeping separate development teams, with their own logos plastered onto the box and before their games' title screens. Let's split Nintendo into Team Miyamoto and, I dunno, Team Games We Actually Want; Miyamoto'll have his own subordinates making games about pretend musical intstruments and Sending Plant Dealies Over There, and the latter team can stay the course and get crackin' on a sequel to New Super Mario Bros. and a Pokemon Stadium-y game that doesn't suck. Everyone wins!
NihonTiger90's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 09:31
NihonTiger90
Twilight Princess was lacking a lot, and personally, I could have done without it. Galaxy could have had a bit more in it, but for what it was worth, it was a damn fine game.
falinter's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 09:34
falinter
I'm trying to think if its just that I am older and more critical of his games or if they really were THAT lacking.

Mario 64, I played that religiously until every star was mine.
Ocarina of Time, I played that religiously until I walked up and down every inch of Hyrule.

Mario Galaxy, I stopped playing as soon as I could skip to and beat the last Bowser battle.
Twilight Princess, I almost gave up on half way through.

I want to blame my more critical eye, but part of me knows its his fault. His vision is faltering. The magic just wasn't in these games. And if he can notice that and accept it then maybe he can make games as amazing as M64 and tLoZ:OoT.
garison's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 09:37
garison
I did get ever star in galaxy, and is one of my favourite games of 08. I don't know what is wrong with Shiggy lately its annoying.
killias2's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 09:54
killias2
"Twilight Princess and Mario Galaxy are conservative and lacking. Wii Fit and Wii Sports Resort? That's the future, folks! "

Yep, that's exactly what he said. -_-

Aren't there people on this board who criticize those games for being just like their predecessors all the time? 5 bucks says they still criticize Miyamoto for this.
killias2's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 09:54
killias2
"Twilight Princess and Mario Galaxy are conservative and lacking. Wii Fit and Wii Sports Resort? That's the future, folks! "

Yep, that's exactly what he said. -_-

Aren't there people on this board who criticize those games for being just like their predecessors all the time? 5 bucks says they still criticize Miyamoto for this.
Sam Spectre's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 10:04
Sam Spectre
And by conservative he means that house wives and retirees wont buy it.



Seriously though, just because a game isn't innovative like Portal or LBP does not mean it sucks. I thought Twilight Princess was fun but it had it's boring parts. I would have actually liked it MORE without all the waggle. Super Mario Galaxy was really fun but there was nothing new. And you know what? That's fine.

I however have no idea how I'm supposed to "have fun" or "enjoy" innovative "games" from Nintendo like Wii Fit.
SephirothX's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 10:14
SephirothX
Wait... not only is Nintendo not really aiding their core games... now Miyamoto is shitting on them?

Oh how the mighty have fallen.
hpv's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 10:14
hpv
It's too easy and not fun at all after the first few minutes. Also spring Mario is the least fun thing they've ever put in a Mario game.
Coldbrand's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 10:17
Coldbrand
YOU PLAY THE NEXT ZELDA WITH THE BALANCE BOARD! ^___________________________________________________^
Zcdrike's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 10:17
Zcdrike
Someone point out to me the specific part where he says that Wii Fit and Wii Sports Resort are the future, that aside I love twilight princess and Galaxy, but a lot of games "journalists" bitched at them for being conservative (not that there's anything wrong with a conservative sequel right Koei?).

I'll take this comment in a positive light, the light that Jim only uses for valve and koei games (no offense, I like Dynasty Warriors and Half-Life 2 as much as everyone) and say I'm looking foreward to what the new Zelda and Mario games are
lowercaseluke's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 10:26
lowercaseluke
Needs more 4-player Pac-man.
kielejocain's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 10:36
kielejocain
Sterling, I think you're letting your dislike of recent first-person Nintendo games color your interpretation. When Twilight Princess came out, everyone that wasn't a f4nb0i said that game wasn't great. Just read the comments above (and probably below) me. I was willing to forgive the developers a bit personally, as it was likely to be the first game people played on their Wiis. I think they were afraid we'd fail to understand the sheer complexity of waggle and give up. But that doesn't excuse the fact that the first 5 hours were tedious.

All I heard in the early going of the launch of the Wii was that there weren't enough games, and that the first party crap being released was just more recycled garbage. Now we get some new, uh, organic garbage and we so long for the recycled stuff that we forget how we felt before.

I wouldn't worry about a Zelda taken over by mini-games or a Mario game with integrated Wii Music stuff. I think they know the two audiences -- while they may overlap -- don't want those things to be forced together.
Face's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 10:43
Face
He is just saying Zelda needs a bit of a revamp. Thats nothing objectionable. Once again destrutoid is the only site to put a negitive spin on a fairly stright forward story. I see the Galaxy comments as the usual modesty rubbish, he is not going to come out and say "yeah that was awesome, not really sure where to go from there".
PEICanada7's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 10:54
PEICanada7
"Someone point out to me the specific part where he says that Wii Fit and Wii Sports Resort are the future"

No one can because Miyamoto didn't say it. Could this interview be taken anymore out of context by Mr. Sterling? He was talking about how to make core games better, and Jim twisted it all around to put yet another negative slant on anything Nintendo. Its just getting pathetic at this point. Is Destructoid turning into a online trashy tabloid that makes up shit just to get more hits now?

If anything should be taken out of this interview it should be that Nintendo themselves are not even satisfied with the core games they make, and want to constantly make them better each time out. How can anyone take that, and make it sound like Miyamoto is trashing the hardcore, and only talking about WiiMusic, and WiiSports. He didn't even mention those games in these quotes for god sakes.
parrothead's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 10:58
parrothead
The two best games on the Wii and he does not like them? I guess that is what a perfectionist does right? But with Wii Music being his great game....all I can think of is Jack Black in High Fidelity "Is it better for a formerly great artist to burn out or just fade away"
wfolse1's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 11:07
wfolse1
Yeah, this story makes me absolutely queasy. While I have to agree with Miyamoto-san's assertion that Twilight Princess was missing something, I don't think that something was innovation. A previous poster talked about how OoT and WW had that special Zelda-ness, but somehow TP just lacked it. However, Mario Galaxy was quite possibly my favorite game of the past five years or so. The notion that Miyamoto wants to change these games somewhat significantly, combined with recent track record makes me fear for the creative future of this once great company.
Jim Sterling's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 11:12
Jim Sterling
I love it when people throw little hissy fits over one sarcastic sentence.

Carry on.
Justice's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 11:35
Justice
He is totally going to screw up the next Mario. What happened to you Miyamoto!
wfolse1's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 11:41
wfolse1
@Jim Sterling

I 100% agree.
Necros's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 11:54
Necros
Twilight Princess wasn't innovative, but I still thought it was a great game. As for Mario, sure, the game's structure was rigidly founded in prior Mario games, right down to a completely unnecessary life system, but the levels and gameplay themselves really broke new ground.
hjd uk's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 12:15
hjd uk
Wait, what? Your berating Miyamoto for wanting more innovative games? WTF.

Twilight and Galaxy were great games, all he's saying (as far as I can tell) is that he thinks they could have been even better, hes a perfectionist. Or would you rather he didn't care about making games and just churned out 'nintendo-mascot-franchise-sequel-X' forever?
Tron Knotts's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 12:17
Tron Knotts
@ Jim- Well, I look at it this way, it's better for Miyamoto to say "Galaxy and Twilight Princess were good, but I want the next games to be even better" than to say "Both games were flawless, hence I am the ultimate master of everything".

It's the same as when Kojima rattles on abotu how Western developers are outdoing the Japanese these days. I think he's wrong, but I'd rather he say that than "I am Japanese, and therefore, I rule."

However, if the next Mario and Zelda games play like Wii Fit or Wii Music, I will rip up my Nintendo fanboy card and never praise Miyamoto again.
brainderailment's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 12:17
brainderailment
Fuck proper structure and story telling elements, we want to roll dice for every single game. In fact, all games should be is just rolling dice for no reason!

brilliant!
PEICanada7's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 12:20
PEICanada7
"I love it when people throw little hissy fits over one sarcastic sentence."

No you love intentionally irritating Nintendo fans with BS like this that has nothing to do with what was actually said. Just to get more hits. Its one thing to have a opinion Jim, but its another to make shit up out of nothing. Its pathetic!
Jim Sterling's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 12:26
Jim Sterling
"Just to get more hits."

If this is the case, then thanks for bringing me closer to that goal. <3
Genmo's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 12:33
Genmo
What I get from this statement is that Super Mario Galaxy<Super Mario 64, and Twilight Princess<Ocarina of Time. I agree.
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