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Miyamoto claims Mario Galaxy was conservative: Not enough pretend saxophone? photo

Former design icon and current maker of pretend videogames Shigeru Miyamoto has been casting a critical eye over his team's earlier Wii games, claiming that something was "missing" from Twilight Princess and that Super Mario Galaxy felt conservative.

"What I've been saying to our development teams recently is that Twilight Princess was not a bad game, by any means. But, still, it felt like there was something missing," explains the Wii Fit creator. "And while, personally, I feel like Super Mario Galaxy was able to do some things that were very new and were very unique, at the same time, from another perspective, certain elements of it do feel somewhat conservative in terms of how far we branched out with design. And so this is something I've been talking to both of those teams about."

These comments are very telling of Nintendo's current attitude. Both Twilight Princess and Mario Galaxy were, waggle aside, rather traditional videogames. That Shigeru Miyamoto is being so critical of these proper games -- arguably two of the very best titles available on the Wii -- says a lot about Nintendo and Miyamoto's approach to the games industry now. 

Twilight Princess and Mario Galaxy are conservative and lacking. Wii Fit and Wii Sports Resort? That's the future, folks! 

Someone pass me a sick bag ...


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66 comments | showing # 51 to 66

Radie's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 12:46
Radie
Seeing as how I called Sterling out on another thread(http://www.destructoid.com/braben-rides-the-wahmbulence-again-claims-game-stores-defraud-the-industry-109678.phtml&?no_cache=1&comment_saved=1#comment-990141), it is only due justice that I commend him when he is right.

Pretty much everythign he says here I agree with. Or more accurately, everything he mocks here, i agree with. Nintendo (read : Atari in the mid 80's) is going down a slippery, slippery slope.
nikoiskhsn's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 12:51
nikoiskhsn
That Shigeru Miyamoto is being so critical of these proper games..

Since Ocarina of Time, Miyamoto has not directed the Zelda games. its like blaming him for the Zelda games that Capcom made for the handhelds.

Jim sterling, Wfolse1, SephirothX, atastysammich, swe3tmadness and flaming burrito are forgetting that Miyamoto is the one who brought Mario into 3D, revolutionized camera control and the joystick control. Ocarina of Time brought innovation in connecting a 3D world with Hyrule Field and the way inventory was accessed and used.

Some people say that Mario Kart, Smash Brothers, Mario Galaxy, Zelda, Fire Emblem are just more of the same.

Then others say pass me a sick bag when Nintendo wants to innovate. Damned if you do and damned if you dont.

Before you attack innovation, just try to go back and read old reviews of Super Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time.

Sure Wii Fit and Wii Music appeal to casual gamers. But Wii sports is revolutionary. The Wii Version of Madden 09 is just plain more fun than the other versions.

Don't forget it used to be named 'Revolution'. He just wants to evolve Mario and Zelda again to new hights. Please, complain.
Edge of Blade's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 12:53
Edge of Blade
Damn right it was conservative. The star girl was just wasted potential. In the end, she should have stolen the star power, revealed herself to be evil, and given us a real ending.

The game was pretty fun to play though.
pedrovay2003's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 13:11
pedrovay2003
...Wow. I really don't know what to say about this.
Sharpless's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 13:51
Sharpless
Innovation is overrated. Just make some fucking good games and people won't give a shit about innovation.
Archanai's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 14:46
Archanai
Take the piss out of Shig all you want, he's still on of the most innovative game developers alive today. Yes, at the moment he's on an odd tangent but he was doing weird stuff before that too, before Twilight Princess and Mario Galaxy, I mean come on it's Shig. Personally I think that he's still one of the world's leading game designers, and, despite all of the weird stuff he's doing at the moment, the guys still gonna come out with actual video games once in a while, and the majority of the time his actual video games are pretty damn good.

And no, I'm not a Nintendo fanboy, I play my 360 and pc more regularly (have yet to get a ps3).
Bewbs's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 15:14
Bewbs
Everyone knows that Mario would have more edge if he were clad in skinny jeans and hunted zombies. As for Link, perhaps throw in some hookers (might I suggest The Happy Hookers of Hyrule as a name?) and have him pumping out electro-clash tunes from his Ocarina.

In all seriousness, the dungeons in TWP were great but the side quest were a little pointless. Perhaps if the game was more difficult, spending hours chasing heart containers would've been necessary. But with the enemies and bosses being so easy to defeat, collecting all containers was nothing more than an optional extra.

Alternatively, perhaps the rewards for side quests could've been more varied. Instead of traipsing around Hyrule for containers or the equally useless wallets, finding weapons outside of the dungeons would provide a welcome change. These then could be used in more environmental puzzles in and around Hyrule, or extra mini-dungeons, similar to the ice arrow quest (or perhaps it was the magic arrow quest) in OoT. Oh, and that's another point, what the hell happened to Din's Fire? Link could do with more magic and/or the ability to mix his own potions from plants and insects found throughout Hyrule.

And I'm sorry for mentioning OoT so much, but I really miss the high ledges of the Forest Temple. The Hookshot is for pussies, real men climb.

Ah fuck it. I'm off to play OoT

[s]Btw, did anyone mentioned waggle.....[/s]
DarkSaint76's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 15:30
DarkSaint76
I agree with Miyamoto's assessments.

Twilight Princess wasn't new enough.
Galaxy wasn't meaty enough.
Dexter345's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 16:31
Dexter345
Jim taking quotes out of context? Can't be.
Bunderant's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 16:36
Bunderant
Jim, I'm still having a hard time understanding how you could have read that without feeling more optimistic toward the future of those franchises. Destructoid's Twilight Princess reviews weren't exactly glowing, so I don't understand why it's a problem for Miyamoto to admit flaws. I think Galaxy was a better game, but, like Twilight Princess, it wasn't very cohesive. I think 'cohesiveness' is the 'something' those games were lacking, and that it's a reflection of Nintendo's design process.

In developer/Miyamoto interviews over past few years, Nintendo often describes creating fun events and tying them all together to create the overall experience. It's in the tying that I think Nintendo has the biggest problems. With Twilight Princess, it's like the development team had a beautiful vase sitting on the tea table, and after upending it, rather than a make new one, carefully glued it back together. When I play it, regardless of the craftsmanship, the cracks are glaring at me.

As you can imagine, after Twilight Princess, I haven't been quite as optimistic about future Nintendo titles. Nintendo has given plenty of assurances that they are 'committed' to hardcore gaming, but this is the first interview I've read that suggests their commitment isn't so misguided as I've come to think.
Jim Sterling's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 16:55
Jim Sterling
Dexter taking sarcasm out of context?

Can't be.
nikoiskhsn's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/30/2008 23:17
nikoiskhsn
[i]Twilight Princess and Mario Galaxy are conservative and lacking. Wii Fit and Wii Sports Resort? That's the future, folks!
Someone pass me a sick bag ... [/i]

Dexter's right. Dude, we know how to read.
ZServ's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/31/2008 10:30
ZServ
Twilight Princess was shit. Dungeons started sucking after the second one, Graphics were nice, but Hyrule Field lacked that "pizazz" of the other games. There was only one "Real" town that didnt make me feel like I was playing Fallout. Bosses were so fucking easy. But besides that, TP was pretty good. Either Miyamoto needs to start directing these fuckers again or give me an Ocarina of Time remake and then stop making new ones. CAPCOM is at least making good Zelda games on the GB/GBA/DS.
DynamicSheep's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/31/2008 13:01
DynamicSheep
I agree that Twilight Princess "was not a bad game, by any means. But, still, it felt like there was something missing.", however, I can't say that I feel like Mario was too conservative... I mean, a Mario game that feels like a Mario game is a good thing in my book.
GohanGVO's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/02/2008 21:07
GohanGVO
I think "Twilight Princess" lacked a bit of its own identity.

"Wind Waker" had its unique visual style and playfulness; "Majora's Mask" was trippy and dark; "Ocarina of Time," for many, set the standard for 3D console action/adventure games.

However, "TP" was sort of a "greatest hits" collection of past "Zelda" titles. While that is not necessarily bad (the UI was far more streamlined and quick), I think the overall product was sort of diluted by its sense of deja vu.

Ironically, it was likely made that way due to the vocal complaints from consumers. "Wind Waker is too kiddy-lookin'; go back to Hyrule instead of Termina/ocean-covered Hyrule; MATURREE LINK PLZ~!" "Twilight Princess" was a textboox example of what designers should do what they feel is right instead of conceding so many core elements to what consumers want.

For the record, I really liked "Twilight Princess." It is not perfect, but neither is any "Zelda" I have played. But, it was an enjoyable romp (heck, I put 50+ hours into it!).

As for "Galaxy," I can see what he is saying in terms of progression. It was basically the same as "Mario 64."

Yes, the levels were amazing, but I think it wanted to tell even more of a story than the one relayed in the library by Rosalina. In a way, I think he wants Mario to evolve into a complete experience rather than level-by-level, star-by-star progression.

For the record, I LOVED LOVED LOVED "Galaxy."
The Amazing Shenazin's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/17/2008 00:27
The Amazing Shenazin
so UR MR GAY is actually AGAINST gays?

my mind is blown
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