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Microsoft thinks you are disposable photo

I love Xbox Live and have happily used the service since it first went into beta. It has only become better over the years, with features big and small creating what feels like a "service" in the truest sense of the word, one that combines many elements to provide a cohesive online experience. It's difficult to imagine gaming without it, and the innovations it has made have had an undeniable impact on the way all of us play games.

I use it to watch movies and keep in contact with friends. I've played a ton of games and will often scroll through my gaming history, just to be reminded of some of the great times I've had with my console. I have personally invested hundreds of dollars  in downloadable content and arcade titles.

Microsoft has worked very hard to make gamers who use their service feel like people instead of numbers by providing so many customization options to allow users to create a real identity. But there is a problem, one that I discovered today, which threatens to destroy all of that identity and reduce users to a second-class status permanently.

This is my personal voyage of discovery into how Microsoft has created a system by which the promise of their so-called superior online service can be easily ripped away from its users, placing them in a position where they stand to lose everything they have ever used it for.

Forever Silver

My fiancé has come down with some kind of horrible head cold and taken the day off from work. Unable to do much more than blow her nose and moan with discomfort, using the Netflix streaming service over Live seemed like the perfect way to get a little rest and recovery time. But since she does not use her Gold membership as much as I would like, it expired about a month ago and we had not yet bothered to reinstate the pay service.

No problem, right? All that would need to be done is toss in a credit card number and we're good to go. Hell, I already had a 12-month subscription card just for the occasion. Type in the code, hit "redeem" and we're off to the races. Or so I thought, until I received an error message stating that my console was unable to retrieve information from Xbox Live.

Customer Support

A call to Xbox customer support eventually revealed the problem: the Microsoft Passport ID associated with the Gamertag, something which existed in this case for the sole purpose of having a subscription to Live, had been closed for inactivity. According to the customer service representative I spoke with, failure to log in to your Passport account for a period of three months essentially closes the account. Live Gamertags are linked to the Passport account, and the system is designed in such a way that a closed account prevents you from performing actions such as adding MS points or signing up for Gold service.

An affected Gamertag still technically exists in some capacity and can even log in to Live as a Silver member (and, presumably, Gold until such time as the subscription expires). Friends lists are active and messages can be sent across the service, but you are in a purgatory where you can never take full advantage of Live ever again. Once closed, Passport accounts can never be re-associated with a Gamertag, even if reinstated.

Fresh as a newborn babe

Microsoft support does offer a solution in these circumstances. All you have to do is register for a new Gamertag, essentially wiping out your entire history as a customer of the company and starting from scratch. In an attempt to be helpful, they cheerfully suggest using one of the free month-long introductory accounts that come with every 360 purchased -- if any are still available on your console.

The potential implications of such a policy are staggering. When Microsoft first introduced the Gamertag system with the launch of Live, it was marketed as your identity on the service. It has become, through the advent of Achievements, a personal gaming history. For those of us who have a passion for this hobby, it's a window into not only our accomplishments but a reflection of who we are as gamers. Every game you have ever played on your 360, for good or ill, is reflected in your Gamertag.

As if it were not bad enough to lose all of that, consider the purchase history, which is also gone. Every XBLA game, DLC item and Marketplace video you have ever downloaded is suddenly at risk. That shiny, new Gamertag will never be able to replace them if they are lost, and the potentially hundreds of dollars spent on these items will also become lost in the ether.

This is your account without Passport

To put things into a larger, societal context, Microsoft has promised us a product that is intended to last forever. But situations like this merely demonstrate that even in a digital landscape where information will conceivably be stored for eternity, we are still expected to follow the consumer-based economic credo of disposable goods when something breaks. If it isn't working, we should happily run out and buy a new one.

This sort of situation should be unacceptable to everyone involved, especially Microsoft. Here is a consumer who is ready and willing to hand them money for their services, but cannot because the system is engineered in a way that prevents them from doing so. That's just bad business.


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90 comments | showing # 51 to 90

Necros's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/14/2009 22:26
Necros
This is horrible customer service. I really hope that you bitch out Microsoft about this next time you call and demand to speak to a supervisor. There needs to be some concessions made by Microsoft for this, and if they don't, I hope you contact people like The Consumerist and see what advice they can give you.
aaronf's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/14/2009 22:33
aaronf
@hpv:

No kidding. Why people continue to fall over themselves to give M$ their money after all these fiascos is beyond me.
Josh Tolentino's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/14/2009 22:37
Josh Tolentino
And here I was thinking of buying a 360 for Live. Now frankly speaking I doubt I'll ever be in the same position as your woman, either as an MS customer or engaged to you (heh), but that's a big concern.

I love DLC. I love digital distribution. I'm more likely to buy a game on Steam than at retail because of the convenience (and the lack of sales tax). But this issue with Live cannot go unaddressed.

Microsoft has practically the most comprehensive and competent online service ever made for gamers (and I say this as a consistent Sony brand-whore), but has essentially ensured that a large portion of the casual market it's trying so goddamn hard to grab a portion of cannot become lifetime loyalists.

Feeble as it might sound, I encourage as many people as possible to directly send letters of concern to Microsoft, either to community reps (those comment forms are there for a reason) or to the company. That sounds like useless bullshit, but I guarantee that someone will listen if we whine and bitch loudly enough.

And if the issue DOES go ignored, we can always vote with our wallets.
Qraze's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/14/2009 22:38
Qraze
that is bad business. i wish they would tell their subscribers before hand of all their bullshit. so far, i see the psn as superior.
Rob---'s Avatar - Comment posted on 01/14/2009 22:52
Rob---
I can't believe so many people are crying about this. You're blaming Microsoft. But you decided to sign up for hotmail, ACCEPTED the Terms and Conditions... which, by the way, fully explains the inactivity part, and the account got cancelled for inactivity. Are you going to use the excuse, "Oh, nobody reads those things!"? Take some personal responsibility. You should be trashing on yourself for not keeping the account active. It's amazing at the amount of entitlement you think you have. "Oh, they didn't tell me!" is BS because they did tell you. "Oh, they promised a lifetime account." Yup, sure did... with conditions. You didn't meet the conditions and were taking up server space. Microsoft is a for-profit business the last I checked and they have that right to enforce the T&C. I think the whaaaambulence should be here shortly.
Infinite Obscurity's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/14/2009 22:54
Infinite Obscurity
Man, I just started using hotmail for actual mail instead of yahoo, which I used to have connected to my Live passport, but now I'm not so sure.

Also, for anyone who was complaining about not being able to play XBLA games offline:

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/support/systemuse/xbox360/licensemigration/

Also, try going and selecting download again for your XBLA games and whatnot, you don't even need to delete it from your HD. I used to have this same problem but now I can play all my XBLA games offline with no problems.
FrankieViturello's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/14/2009 23:16
FrankieViturello
Yeah ... they'll kill an account for 3 months of inactivity, but they'll keep your credit card numbers on file FOREVER, even if you call and ask to have them removed from your XBL account. Microsoft have trained their outsourced Indian help line workers well, they're very cheerful and empathetic sounding, but they will NEVER, not EVER do anything to help in a situation like this. EVER.

I used the license transfer device on my third (yes third) 360 ... and then that unit died a month later. It was out of RROD warranty as it was about 3 years old, so instead of sending it in for pay repairs (or more likely a refurbished unit), I decided to opt for a new arcade unit (with neat HDMI output and a 2nd wireless controller. Well worth the money) ... and I spent three hours on the phone with them BEGGING them to transfer my license to the new console, I presented every logical scenario I could to them, but they simply would not budge.

Microsoft has FAR AND AWAY the WORST customer service department in the history of retail. They're plagued with hardware problems (which they've openly admitted) and yet they take a tremendously defensive position when you ask for anything other than a RROD repair ticket (which they do all freaking day long).

Now I have to have my XBOX 360 online to play any games on my hard drive - until next year when I can use their automatic license transfer tool, at which point this 360 will probably die on me.
MrBAMF's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/15/2009 00:10
MrBAMF
i had my account expire then i logged back on 6-10 months later and all my stuff is still here DLC friends games etc....
BattyAdroit's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/15/2009 00:19
BattyAdroit
What complete horseshit. Sorry, mang.
mistic's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/15/2009 00:54
mistic
holy shit, this IS bad...

fucking M$dicks!
atheistium's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/15/2009 01:03
atheistium
If you ever have anything linked to an account with an email address, something that you use money for and such then always link it to an account you check regularly.

While I can agree it bloody sucks that a simple email going down and screw up your whole account rather than them just offering to change the email... I think it's stupid to even think about spending money on an account where you don't check the email account it's linked too.

What if some crazy shit went down with your account and they happened to send you a helpful email to let you know every things gunna be okay? But obviously you don't check it and go screaming to some representative who's fault it is not.

I dono... I just think you should always register your passport to a regular account. I have mine on my gmail account.
Syn's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/15/2009 01:36
Syn
Hahaha, I'm glad I've known Microsoft sucks mighty wang for years and avoid their bullshit.
R Bond's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/15/2009 02:33
R Bond
This is EXACTLY the dilemma I'm in right now. About a year ago, I closed my old Passport account that was associated with an e-mail I never used anymore, forgetting that my Xbox Live account was linked to that particular Passport. As a result, I'm no longer able to sign into or use any of those cool features on Xbox.com. I'm blocked from changing my personal information such as my address and phone number from the Dashboard, and if for some reason I needed to recover my gamertag, I wouldn't be able to since it asks for an e-mail address for verification.

I've been lucky enough to keep my Gold status since then, but if there was ever a situation where I needed to convert back to Silver, I'm completely screwed. There's gotta be something Microsoft can do to fix this glitch. How hard can it be to link an account to another Passport?
kittridge's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/15/2009 02:49Image Hosted by ImageShack.us</a><br/>
kittridge
*To anyone who has had to replace their 360 and as result can no longer play their arcade games without being online*

THERE IS A RELATIVELY SIMPLE FIX.

Just delete the game and re-download it. I had the same issues, um, 5 times? Yeah, because I'm on my 6th xbox. Each time, I have had to do this.

Kind of annoying for me, because I own over 45 Arcade titles, but it works. I should point out, however, that you should ONLY DELETE THE GAMES FROM THE "MY GAMES" TAB.

I fear that if you delete it from the "memory" tab in your SYSTEM area, you may lose your saves and achievements. Not sure about that, but I wouldn't risk it.
kittridge's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/15/2009 02:54Image Hosted by ImageShack.us</a><br/>
kittridge
Also (and please accept my apology for the double post), I agree that this is a major problem that MS needs to fix ASAP. I would suggest that anyone who is concerned about this (I'm not because I only have one account, it's gold and I use it daily) search for this problem on xbox.com message boards. It has probably been mentioned before.

I say this because after 100 or so pages of people BEGGING for 16:10 resolution and 3 years later, MS included the resolution in the latest update.

One more thing: the LIVE Passport system blows. I am currently using my ex-girlfriend's old college email address for my only gold account. It's kind of a pain in the ass, especially when she calls me up bitching about the e-mails she receives on my behalf.
Kyousuke Nanbu's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/15/2009 03:04
Kyousuke Nanbu
Wow what a load of shit, I guess its a good thing that I use MSN everyday but still. That is some terrible business practices.
Aziel13's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/15/2009 03:07
Aziel13
now that makes me wonder if I can get my old gmaertag back
SetoChaos's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/15/2009 04:58
SetoChaos
WHAT?!?! I seriously hope they get sued for this. Absolutely pathetic, I don't want to ever lose any of the things that I have brought!
Slique's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/15/2009 06:27
Slique
Wow, that seriously sucks, and seems like a huge oversight on Microsoft's part. For one, 3 months is a terribly short amount of time in retrospect, and two, not having some kind of warning notification is just bad practice.

Has anyone thought of asking Major Nelson about all of this? It'd be interest to see what his take on it is, and he might even be able to shed anymore light on the limbo'd gamertags. After all, you'd think it'd be a fairly easy process to recover, really.
AClockWorkMelon's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/15/2009 06:40
AClockWorkMelon
Guys! The reason some of you are saying "I haven't used my passport email in ages and it's fine..." is because, at least I think, that merely signing into Xbox Live via your console counts towards keeping it active.
ChaosInTheSnow's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/15/2009 07:02
ChaosInTheSnow
@CZ - I'm in the same position as Jizl Tizl. I didn't even know what account I had linked to my gamertag before reading this post. The post freaked me out, so I just tried using my gamertag to log into hotmail and sure enough that was the account. Though it's empty in terms of emails (no Xbox Live related messages). I actually didn't think could even be the account I used until I checked the billing status associated with it. Sure enough, my Xbox Live subscription was listed. Now like I said, I never use that account and I don't sign into any other Microsoft related portals. So the only conclusion I could draw is that being on Xbox Live kept it open for me. Maybe purchases of DLC updating the billing info kept it alive?
FrankieViturello's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/15/2009 07:50
FrankieViturello
@KITTRIDGE

There's a reason that there are a ton of people "bitching" about this. It's because your proposed solution does not work.

If you do not have the means to transfer your license (the right to play all the games you purchased on your 360 - more importantly THE 360 UNIT that you purchased them on) from the original 360 where the games were purchased to your new 360, then regardless of how many times you delete and re-download a game (from either the games tab or the memory) then you CAN. NOT. PLAY. THEM. Unless you're connected to XBL.

The reason that Microsoft has this system in place is to prevent people from purchasing games, going to their friends house, logging in to their 360, accessing their purchase history and downloading all the titles that they bought to their friends 360 (or even another 360 that they own)

The digital rights per game on XBL only allow for you to play them (offline) on ONE CONSOLE.

I wish MS would adopt Sony's rights management policy, which is that purchased content can be shared with FIVE consoles.

But, to get back to the point - you can't just delete and re-download the games to get them to work.

If you've experienced this phenomenon, I assume that it is because you sent an XBOX360 in for repair, in which case MS transfers the license to the new console (usually without telling you).

Also, if you use Microsoft's online "license migration" tool - be warned, you can only use that tool ONCE PER YEAR (once every 365 days). So, if you're like me and you transfer all your game licenses to a 360 that is out of warranty and it dies weeks later (or days later) you're stuck with having to be online on your new 360 to play all your downloaded game content.

From an business standpoint, I see where MS is coming from, but from a CUSTOMER SERVICE standpoint, if you call and talk to them they should just make a freaking exception. That's how good customer service works.
Serivor's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/15/2009 08:10
Serivor
Damn...I guess I'm not going to have LIVE anymore. I'm not going to have internet for awhile soon.
Mr Gilder's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/15/2009 08:18
Mr Gilder
I consider many of Microsoft's policies in regard to XBL and gamertags to be appalling and borderline illegal. The way that their DRM policies make it nearly impossible to reclaim "goods" that one has paid for with actual money without spending time on the phone practically negotiating and/or arguing with ignorant customer service reps is inexcusable.

This mortifying policy that you speak of, Conrad, is just another notch in the handle of the megalomaniacle shillelagh that the people at Microsoft consistantly hold over our heads. I am digusted, but not astounded in any way. There is an implicit silent consent that each and every one of us made in transitioning over to this generation where digital distribution reigns supreme. We, the customer, no longer have rights to our goods. We no longer purchase things based on our terms. Merchants should be beholden to their customers, always. Demand from buyers should dictate rules and trends in the marketplace.

In the age of DLC, Gamertags, and IDs, Friend Codes, etc., we have silently ceded our claims to the right to dictate how we manage what we spend our hard-earned money on. We now must either obey stringent rules from these distrubution entities, or simply go without products that we, as consumers desire. Neither of these solutions are acceptable. The environment is one of bizarre circumstances that can neither be condemned as to rampantly capitalistic, or controllingly socialistic. Worst of all, since the surrender was made on our parts, when we parted with our money, and clicked "yes" on any number of user end license agreements, we have sacrificed any real right to even so much as complain.

I made the decision in 2009 not to renew my XBL gold subscription. Online play is simply not important enough to me, and I will still have access to the game expanding content that I want with a silver membership. But this absurd policy that Zimmerman has revealed here has me scared, and reconsidering my decision. What if due to school, work, or health issues, I don't log on to my silver account for the set 3 month period? Should my system red ring (AGAIN), I would forever lose the right to explore the Shivering Isles, play as the king in Castle Crashers, or smooth my skin again with potions that can only be gained with access to Knothole Island. These are all experiences that I paid for, and can potentially lose.

These trends terrify me, and truly are the greatest weakness of this console generation.
Rathe989's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/15/2009 09:24
Rathe989
this is exactly why I will not buy an 360. I've played the console , my brother has one, its a good console. i will never buy one because of Microsoft. They are the epitome of the greed before all else, the end profits justify the means, corporation. I speak with my wallet and I don't speak to microsoft.
FrankieViturello's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/15/2009 09:39
FrankieViturello
@ Mr Gilder

So very VERY eloquently said.

Having been the victim of several 360 hardware failures, I am also disgusted with the quality of service they provide. It is endlessly frustrating to have to deal with the myriad of outsourced, ignorant customer service reps that they choose to employ, how many times have 360 owners had to explain, in detail, simple, typical situations to a Microsoft customer service rep only to have them act completely confused by any scenario presented.

Me: "I would like to transfer my license to a new 360 that I purchased."

Service Rep: "Let me try to understand what you are asking, you would like to know how to download games to your 360?"

Me: " No, I have purchased a new 360, I have an old 360 that is out of warranty that I do not want to send in for repairs. I used the license migration tool last month, so I would like you to help me migrate my license to my new 360."

Service Rep: "I am sorry, I do not know what a license migration tool is, will you please hold while I transfer you to a manager."

(Nearly the same exact conversation happens with service manager until I personally fully educate them what the "license transfer" tool is.)

Service Manager: "Hold on while I go discuss this with my technical department."

(On hold for about an hour)

Service Manager: "I spoke to the technical department and there is nothing they can do to help you."

Me: "Look, I don't mind only having the ability to have ONE 360 authorized for DRM, and I KNOW that they certainly have the ability to DE-authorize my old 360 and transfer that authorization to my current system ... even if it is just an exception made this one time in the name of good customer service, PLEASE, help me out here."

Service Manager: "I understand you are upset but my technical department will not do this for you."

(This goes back and forth for about an hour, till the point where I am so frustrated that I simply give up.)

These people have NO PLACE in customer service, much less a customer service niche that deals with video game hardware and services that they know next to nothing about ... yes, I'm sure they've exceptionally good at setting up return tickets for RROD units, as the bulk of their service calls likely deal with that and they have become proficient via repetition ... however when dealing with anything out-of-the-ordinary, they're completely incapable of making logical, reasonable exceptions in the name of good service.
Mattchewie's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/15/2009 09:48
Mattchewie
In the future everything is forever until deemed obsolete!!
Zaatxe's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/15/2009 10:00
Zaatxe
Closing for inactivity? Why? Are hard disk drivers too expensive nowadays?
Mikular's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/15/2009 12:12
Mikular
This happened to me. I had 12,000 gamerscore, innumerable videos and maps vital to my machinima on Halo 3, and 2 years worth of DLC. All gone, because of Bill Gates' evil fuckmachine of eternal befuzzlement.
thebza's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/15/2009 12:13
thebza
this happened to me on my original live account (xbox original). what happened though was that i signed up with my visa debit card, and when my account expired i tried to reinstate it.. they wanted the digits from my visa card. problem was that i had long lost it and was issued a new card by my bank, so the new card had new numbers. Microsoft said, 'sorry, unless you can tell us the numbers on the old card you're screwed'. my bank couldn't give me those numbers either, so i lost my original account. :P
Space Moose's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/15/2009 12:54
Space Moose
My Passport account for XBL is still valid and I haven't logged into it in over 2 years. The support guy at MS was probably just making shit up because he didn't have a logical answer for you.
Dexter345's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/15/2009 15:35
Dexter345
Bad luck there, ImpossiblePlant. Perhaps with this exposure, Microsoft might do something about this? It really makes no sense not to.
kevinBane's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/16/2009 16:22
kevinBane
Yep same thing happened to me, so I sold the 360 and will be picking up a PS3 in the not too distant future.
Swizzler121's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/16/2009 17:04
Swizzler121
you have also put fear in me since I have been silver for a while, and was thinking of going Gold to play COD:WAW online...omg, i just read the comment that this only happens with hotmail!!!

@hotmail users: HAHA YOU SHOULDN'T BE USING A CRAPPY INSECURE EMAIL ANYWAY!!!
JJBro1's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/16/2009 18:46
JJBro1
so if i signed up for live with a yahoo or a gmail this will never happen right?
Tuxy's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/17/2009 11:42
Tuxy
That is fucking bullshit!
Drach's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/19/2009 00:06
Drach
damn, I'd better spend my microsoft points on my ghost account so the Software Devil doesn't claim it. Man those people have some shadey business practices, I'm amazed they've stayed in the gaming industry for so long.. I remember a day when MS Studios made some pretty decent games, and I didn't have to pay for updates and whatnot. Now to play with my pals online even on my PC they want me to shell out some loot. remember the days when you bought a game and you just happened to have a decent internet connection you could play with others that got the same game? Thanks for screwing up the gaming industry, Bill Gates!
masanf's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/23/2009 22:28
masanf
Yes this sucks, obviously, but for all those folks knocking Xbox Live know this: the online service for PS3 (and 2 for that matter) is so fucking horrible, it is totally unsurprising no one is buying that overpriced Blu Ray player.
LaunchSSV's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/28/2009 08:38
LaunchSSV
I'm in the same boat as my account is inactive for more than 90 days of "inactivity". Unfortunately for you, your account was not renewed I read correctly. Mine however has been beautifully maintained and billed automatically by MICROSOFT for 7+ years now. I find it unsettling to know that Xbox Live can and will bill people all the while knowing their account is inactive, WTF???? And why?? And I agree with everyone else here that SUPPORT, whether it's Live, Xbox.com or Windows Live is absolutely a JOKE!!! I could get more information from my local homeless person than those idiots!!
Valentia X's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/02/2009 12:36
Valentia X
This sounds like some sort of bizarre technical error gone wrong. My console was bricked for six months thanks to the dickheads at Nielsen, I never played anywhere else, but since my passport is a GMail account, I went essentially seven months without playing and didn't have a problem?

Christ, Microsoft is really anal about people using their products.
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