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Microsoft thinks you are disposable photo

I love Xbox Live and have happily used the service since it first went into beta. It has only become better over the years, with features big and small creating what feels like a "service" in the truest sense of the word, one that combines many elements to provide a cohesive online experience. It's difficult to imagine gaming without it, and the innovations it has made have had an undeniable impact on the way all of us play games.

I use it to watch movies and keep in contact with friends. I've played a ton of games and will often scroll through my gaming history, just to be reminded of some of the great times I've had with my console. I have personally invested hundreds of dollars  in downloadable content and arcade titles.

Microsoft has worked very hard to make gamers who use their service feel like people instead of numbers by providing so many customization options to allow users to create a real identity. But there is a problem, one that I discovered today, which threatens to destroy all of that identity and reduce users to a second-class status permanently.

This is my personal voyage of discovery into how Microsoft has created a system by which the promise of their so-called superior online service can be easily ripped away from its users, placing them in a position where they stand to lose everything they have ever used it for.

Forever Silver

My fiancé has come down with some kind of horrible head cold and taken the day off from work. Unable to do much more than blow her nose and moan with discomfort, using the Netflix streaming service over Live seemed like the perfect way to get a little rest and recovery time. But since she does not use her Gold membership as much as I would like, it expired about a month ago and we had not yet bothered to reinstate the pay service.

No problem, right? All that would need to be done is toss in a credit card number and we're good to go. Hell, I already had a 12-month subscription card just for the occasion. Type in the code, hit "redeem" and we're off to the races. Or so I thought, until I received an error message stating that my console was unable to retrieve information from Xbox Live.

Customer Support

A call to Xbox customer support eventually revealed the problem: the Microsoft Passport ID associated with the Gamertag, something which existed in this case for the sole purpose of having a subscription to Live, had been closed for inactivity. According to the customer service representative I spoke with, failure to log in to your Passport account for a period of three months essentially closes the account. Live Gamertags are linked to the Passport account, and the system is designed in such a way that a closed account prevents you from performing actions such as adding MS points or signing up for Gold service.

An affected Gamertag still technically exists in some capacity and can even log in to Live as a Silver member (and, presumably, Gold until such time as the subscription expires). Friends lists are active and messages can be sent across the service, but you are in a purgatory where you can never take full advantage of Live ever again. Once closed, Passport accounts can never be re-associated with a Gamertag, even if reinstated.

Fresh as a newborn babe

Microsoft support does offer a solution in these circumstances. All you have to do is register for a new Gamertag, essentially wiping out your entire history as a customer of the company and starting from scratch. In an attempt to be helpful, they cheerfully suggest using one of the free month-long introductory accounts that come with every 360 purchased -- if any are still available on your console.

The potential implications of such a policy are staggering. When Microsoft first introduced the Gamertag system with the launch of Live, it was marketed as your identity on the service. It has become, through the advent of Achievements, a personal gaming history. For those of us who have a passion for this hobby, it's a window into not only our accomplishments but a reflection of who we are as gamers. Every game you have ever played on your 360, for good or ill, is reflected in your Gamertag.

As if it were not bad enough to lose all of that, consider the purchase history, which is also gone. Every XBLA game, DLC item and Marketplace video you have ever downloaded is suddenly at risk. That shiny, new Gamertag will never be able to replace them if they are lost, and the potentially hundreds of dollars spent on these items will also become lost in the ether.

This is your account without Passport

To put things into a larger, societal context, Microsoft has promised us a product that is intended to last forever. But situations like this merely demonstrate that even in a digital landscape where information will conceivably be stored for eternity, we are still expected to follow the consumer-based economic credo of disposable goods when something breaks. If it isn't working, we should happily run out and buy a new one.

This sort of situation should be unacceptable to everyone involved, especially Microsoft. Here is a consumer who is ready and willing to hand them money for their services, but cannot because the system is engineered in a way that prevents them from doing so. That's just bad business.


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90 comments | showing # 1 to 50

kittwalker's Avatar
kittwalker at 01/14/2009 18:53
Cheers. I now have "the fear" since I rarely check the hotmail address linked to my gamertag. Guess I'll be logging into Hotmail once a month or so now....
Peronthious's Avatar
Peronthious at 01/14/2009 19:03
Yet another thing behind the door on the XBL service that's problematic. I had a problem in the same area not too long ago trying to disassociate my credit card with the account. Word to the wise, never associate a credit card with your XBL account; hell, 13 month cards are loads cheaper on Amazon.
Holyetheline's Avatar
Holyetheline at 01/14/2009 19:09
Wow. This is some scary business.
the GAMEGOBLIN's Avatar
the GAMEGOBLIN at 01/14/2009 19:10
Can't you just make a new hotmail account and switch the email in account management?
Shadowboi's Avatar
Shadowboi at 01/14/2009 19:12
Wait, so if you sign into XBL regularly it should be ok?

Or do you have to sign into that Microsoft thing somewhere else? Now i'm nervous!
Tubatic's Avatar
Tubatic at 01/14/2009 19:13
Wow . . . that's fucking ridiculous!

So you're telling me that NOBODY has access to whatever glorified spreadsheet lists that information? They don't have any system in place to re-instate dead accounts? That is re-damn-diculous!

And not to go for the obvious dig, but for something that's cost money as a service, you oughtta have some method, even if its AT LEAST an Opt-In service, to have your information persist.

I've walked away fromCity of Heroes for like 2 years, and I STILL get emails saying I can jump back in at any time.

I'm not ready to form a protest group or anything, but the permanense of that null state is horseshit.
Niero's Avatar
Niero at 01/14/2009 19:13
That's the problem with digital, for sure.

It reminds me of the time we uploaded some content given to us by a PR firm to our YouTube account. At the snap of a finger 2 years worth of uploaded Dtoid originals were gone. No appeal process. Thanks!
A New Challenger's Avatar
A New Challenger at 01/14/2009 19:14
There was a similar horror story on Kotaku last week.

This could potentially happen with the Wii as well, but as far as I know there's no inactivity deactivation on an account. It's only in the extreme case that your system is irreparably bugfucked and all the VC games tied to your system are then unrecoverable.

Best to consider everything a long term rental and decide whether your "purchases" are worth it accordingly.
glandseck's Avatar
glandseck at 01/14/2009 19:15
Is this for real? What a joke! I was already unhappy to have to make a Microsoft Passport crap thing that I didn't want just to get a gold service gamertag, but they can also perish?

This reeks of Microsoft shenanigans all over. It was obviously deliberate to push people into using their useless passport service, and I for one am offended.
Kaikara's Avatar
Kaikara at 01/14/2009 19:20
Exactly the same thing happened to me. Lost EVERYTHING on the gamertag I was using (all my gamerscore, arcade games etc). M$ was incredibly unhelpful, telling me to start a new account. Luckily I managed to get reimbursed all the MS points I'd spent (after a 3 month wait), but still all that GS.....I haven't played for achievements since (mayb a good thing). Still I have to say Microsoft have one of the worst customer relations policies I have ever come across (terrible staff on the phones as well). Look at companies like Blizzard. For example my collectors edition of WotLK shipped without a CD key. This was obviously incredibly annoying. I rang them on December 15th and they told me to ship the game box and audio sleeve to a customer relations centre in France. On December 23rd I received an email containing my CD key. On December 27th I received a package containing not only my game case, but 2 T-shirts, a mouse mat and a map of Azeroth. Now that is customer service!

One other major problem I'm having at the moment is that my 2 360s were registered to my old gamertag. One of them has now RROD and there is NO way I can get it repaired as the serial has been registered already. WTF m$!! grrr!
Danmartigan's Avatar
Danmartigan at 01/14/2009 19:23
I would like to hear a response from Microsoft on this one. 3 months is a pretty short amount of time to close an account...
Tron's Avatar
Tron at 01/14/2009 19:25
i presume you're safe if you on to xbox.com to check achievements?
atastysammich's Avatar
atastysammich at 01/14/2009 19:26
I'm not against an inactivity wipe--they're a good way to keep the resources flowing for newcomers. But this execution of it, with such a short time window and no heads-up to you is absurd. No one should have to suffer through finding out after the fact. Getting back up and running after essentially being junked is always a pain in the ass, even in the best-case scenario.
Magnalon's Avatar
Magnalon at 01/14/2009 19:26
Wow. I left my account un-active for 2 and a half months! I got really lucky, and won't ever let it happen again. I'm sorry this has happened to some people.

What the hell do they expect if you lose internet service for 3 months?

Also, when you buy TV episodes over the PSN, you keep them forever. After buying a few South Park episodes over Live, they corrupted themselves after 6 months, and I can't re-download them.
BlindsideDork's Avatar
BlindsideDork at 01/14/2009 19:28
Don't worry, MS will get away with this cause of all the sheep.
dollrapist's Avatar
dollrapist at 01/14/2009 19:28
Another big whiner from Destructoid! LOL.

drive your lazy ass to the video store if you want to watch a movie.

THE SKY IS FALLING CUZ XBOX JUST RAPED ME!!!! WHAAAAAAAAAAA
Solgrim's Avatar
Solgrim at 01/14/2009 19:31
Yeah, it is bullshit. This is why people shouldn't take achievments seriously. You don't even own them. You have to rent your achievments.

Because I switched Xbox 360's, I have to be online for me to even play Castlevania: SotN. I spent money on that fucking game and put alot of hours into it, and I'm not even talking achievment wise. I mean just the game itself. I have to be online to access those stats. It isn't a fucking MMO.

Also, the NXE has started to run like shit. PS3 may take forever to download a demo and install, but atleast users can send a message in less than 10 seconds. While on the 360 it takes a good 2 and a half fucking minutes.
dollrapist's Avatar
dollrapist at 01/14/2009 19:32
Funny to think you could get a RROD and then lose your gamertag because your 360 was being fixed.

Great job, Microsoft.
pascuz46's Avatar
pascuz46 at 01/14/2009 19:34
Holy shit, that sucks! I would be so pissed if my PSN ID just got canceled. All those damn trophies I got all the stuff I bought off of PSN all gone. I would be so pissed, hopefully Sony doesn't have a similar system set up like this, but I don't see how they could considering you aren't playing for online. But who knows. So what are you going to end up doing? Are you going to get a new account or try and retrieve your old one?
Conrad Zimmerman's Avatar
Conrad Zimmerman at 01/14/2009 19:37
@pascuz46 In a way, I really got off light on this. My woman's Gamertag was exclusively used for playing games and watching Netflix, so there's no actual content at risk for me. Now, her perfect Gamerscore in Viva Pinata, on the other hand...
akathatoneguy's Avatar
akathatoneguy at 01/14/2009 19:40
So let me get this straight...even if you log into your gamertag via your 360 or PC, if you don't log into the e-mail associated with it for three months, it could ruin everything?

I'd better tell my friends, some of whom may have used rarely-used e-mails to sign up for Live, hoping to avoid junk mail.
Nik565's Avatar
Nik565 at 01/14/2009 19:53
The thought of losing everything just like that is terrifying in ways I can't describe. There really should be some kind of heads up for this kind of shit.
icarus's Avatar
icarus at 01/14/2009 20:01
I can understand the account going inactive, but there ought to be some mechanism in place to reactivate the account. I am sure there are people who invest a fair amount of time into achievements and purchase lots of content, so there should be a way of getting that back if an account goes active.

Just to be clear though, if I log in on xbox.com at least once every 3 months, then that is sufficient to keep the account active...correct? It's not the email account that goes inactive, but rather the MS Passport account (to which my email is linked).
Conrad Zimmerman's Avatar
Conrad Zimmerman at 01/14/2009 20:04
@icarus: As far as I'm aware, logging into xbox.com should keep your passport account active. I can't say with absolute certainty, but I suspect so. In addition, I believe you can protect yourself by logging into MSN messenger.
Pushtrak's Avatar
Pushtrak at 01/14/2009 20:10
"he Microsoft Passport ID associated with the Gamertag, something which existed in this case for the sole purpose of having a subscription to Live, had been closed for inactivity. According to the customer service representative I spoke with, failure to log in to your Passport account for a period of three months essentially closes the account. Live Gamertags are linked to the Passport account, and the system is designed in such a way that a closed account prevents you from performing actions such as adding MS points or signing up for Gold service. "

That is reasonable.

"Once closed, Passport accounts can never be re-associated with a Gamertag, even if reinstated."

That is not.

I hardly ever use my email address associated with my gamertag. I prefer gmail. Guess I'm going to have to be careful about this in future. I've had my hotmail thing be closed on me numerous times over the years. Thankfully their mail system is better than the Yahoo one, anyway. That would be disheartening.

I'm about to go to Xbox.com. I'm sure someone has already made a thread after reading this. And if not, I'll correct that mistake.
icarus's Avatar
icarus at 01/14/2009 20:11
I just find it remarkable that an account that is in exclusive control of Microsoft can somehow become permanently inactive. Even if the account was fully deleted, I don't see why it would be difficult for MS to manually reestablish a connection between a new Passport account and a Gamertag.
the GAMEGOBLIN's Avatar
the GAMEGOBLIN at 01/14/2009 20:15
Again, can't you just make a new hotmail account and switch the email in account management?

I'm curious to see if this is possible
zeroword's Avatar
zeroword at 01/14/2009 20:15
OK. Here is the thing. You don't have to use hotmail for your Live ID. You can use any email.

The problem is shitty Hotmail since they deactivate with inactivity and for some reason when you use Hotmail, you cannot change your Live ID. All of these problems are solved if you signed up with another email address.
RawwrBag's Avatar
RawwrBag at 01/14/2009 20:18
Okay, correct me if I am wrong, but you can CHANGE the Windows Live ID associated with an Xbox Live account in the account management. I did this to get rid of my crappy email that I created as a kid. Works fine, have all my content, achievements, etc.
Conrad Zimmerman's Avatar
Conrad Zimmerman at 01/14/2009 20:21
@GAMEGOBLIN I've just checked. What is happening is I get an error saying that the console is unable to connect to Xbox Live. At the same time, however, her Gamertag is connected to the service as I can see Friends listed.

Based on what I learned from MS Support today, since there's no link to an existing Passport, the system seems to be unable to connect with parts of the service which relate to account management as there's no linked account to go to.
brainderailment's Avatar
brainderailment at 01/14/2009 20:21
Well, looks like I'll never be able to get a gold membership even if I wanted to. It just assures me that I made the right decision by vowing to spend as little money on paid for downloadable content.
RawwrBag's Avatar
RawwrBag at 01/14/2009 20:22
@CZ

Damn... that doesn't make any sense...
JimmySky's Avatar
JimmySky at 01/14/2009 20:27
Damn, thats some crazy shit.
Nogarda's Avatar
Nogarda at 01/14/2009 20:36
And from my perspective it is this reason alone why real games we buy at retail with box, disc and intructions, and possibly those annoying leaflets you find hidden behind or inside the booklet most recently advertising the guide to the game. will never die. because even if this DOES happen you still have and own the product. where as you clearly state you lose your entire purchase history via technicality.

Also 3 months is WAY to short. fair enough I can see them never not , not having a cap on this, but you would exspect 365 days for something like this.

In another aspect if this was true for the PS3 or Wii if my account got locked because i didnt login i'ld have to re make an account everytime i turned the consoles on because its very seldom I want to play a ps3 game or wii title.

Also could anyone comment if this also includes xbox.com because i played WoW for a long time and used to login to xbox.com but I'm fairly sure i never left my 360 alone for 3 months.
rbrooks's Avatar
rbrooks at 01/14/2009 20:37
wow that's ridiculous and fucked up...
Mxyzptlk's Avatar
Mxyzptlk at 01/14/2009 20:37
Six months to a year I could maybe see. But the fact that you can't relink it is simply ridiculous.
grafkhun's Avatar
grafkhun at 01/14/2009 20:38
That is total bollucks, I hope you find a way to remedy this asanine matter ZImmerman, seriously Microsoft, daba-you-tee-eff?
ceark's Avatar
ceark at 01/14/2009 20:41
live service blows. after some horror stories from several close friends who have had things like having they're account stolen or unable to log on because something screwed up on XBOX live's side and being unable to use the same piece of shit service they pay for, I've come to the conclusion that anyone who lauds how great xbox live is mentally deficient.
Jizl Tizl's Avatar
Jizl Tizl at 01/14/2009 20:43
Slow down people! Unless I missed something, from what I understand, you should be fine if you just play xbox live regularly. I don't think I have touched my hotmail account associated with my gold account for at least a year and everything still works.
flamesofchaos's Avatar
flamesofchaos at 01/14/2009 20:53
This is why I would never want Microsoft as the market leader ever, out of the 3 console companies they are the most restrictive.
Conrad Zimmerman's Avatar
Conrad Zimmerman at 01/14/2009 21:00
@Jizl Tizl We've used my woman's gamertag a lot, as she plays quite a bit of Rock Band. Logging in to Live via your 360 is apparently not enough to prevent this from happening. If your passport (or Live ID) gets dropped for inactivity, that's that.

Is it possible that you've logged in to another service covered by the Live ID umbrella which has kept your account active? MSN messenger or Xbox.com, perhaps?
Jim Sterling's Avatar
Jim Sterling at 01/14/2009 21:17
The email associated with my Gamertag has not been used in the two years I've had a Gamertag and it's fine. I am confused by this indeed.
BluDesign's Avatar
BluDesign at 01/14/2009 21:31
Well, this explains why I can't find a way to login to my Gamertag from my first RROD I used when MS refunded me 8000 MS points.

It still doesn't explain how GayBear's gamertag still works though... Unless GayBear is scarily real somewhere having stolen the account the CBM made for him.
CrocBox's Avatar
CrocBox at 01/14/2009 21:40
Wow, they just get dumber every year. This is why I am very cautious about paying for stuff I can't physically get my hands on.
cametall's Avatar
cametall at 01/14/2009 21:40
I really didn't want to see the new born baby. That pic made me forget what I was reading.

Yes I'm a weak person =(
Ninja In Distress's Avatar
Ninja In Distress at 01/14/2009 21:45
I have the exact same sitution as Jim, but make that three years of not touching that passport. I forget it exist.
Lucifers jello's Avatar
Lucifers jello at 01/14/2009 22:01
I used to have the gamertag: Zulu638. Unfortunatly since I got RROD I had to get a new 360. I ended up getting an elite(now has rrod), and tried to recover my tag. Turns out though my passport ID didn't exist. Apparently it couldn't exist since I told them my domain was @microsoft which is only usable by microsoft employes. I was able to confirm with a friend who had my e-mail on his contacts that my e-mail did exist, but it still wasn't enough(I couldn't sign into my e-mail either). Then after they looked into my tag history they found out my account had been suspended, but had no explanation why. After being a little rude on the phone I was hung up on. I gave it a rest until the next day. The first thing I did was inquire about my account status. Apparently it no longer existed. For no real reason I keep a friend request pending with my old account, but I'm still bitter about it. Bad case of Murphy's Law.
hpv's Avatar
hpv at 01/14/2009 22:03
Why do people seem so surprised by the lack of quality in design and implementation from microsoft? That's been their SOP since the very beginning. No one to blame for it when it bites you except yourself, you should have known better than to support them in the first place.
zeroword's Avatar
zeroword at 01/14/2009 22:10
@CZ - Please read my first comment. It only happens to people who use Hotmail since Hotmail is the only email address that cannot be changed once used for a passport and dies from inactivity.

If you use another email address next time, you will not have this problem and you will be able to change it at will.
zeroword's Avatar
zeroword at 01/14/2009 22:14
One more thing, most customer service reps @MS will not tell you this unless you get just the right person and ask really nicely.

DO NOT USE HOTMAIL OR YOU WILL BE SCREWED.
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