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A system designed specifically to get gamers to overspend. This isn't to say Sony doesn't do the same thing to a somewhat lesser degree (don't know about Ninty, though), but it's just a flat out scheme to get people to pay more than they need to, and probably a psychological play on the notion that these points aren't real money, they're just points. Maybe even a play on the whole gamer metagame of having more points than the next guy, or points being associated with skill on a base level.
In any case, it is what it is. It's no secret why points-over-cash is preferred, you'll spend more.
In any case, it is what it is. It's no secret why points-over-cash is preferred, you'll spend more.
Since you mongoloids haven't worked it out, the reason the points are a preferable system is because you buy (for example) a $20 card for $20 plus tax in your locality, so the credit to your account is the equivalent of $20 plus tax. If you then want to buy a $20 title, it is covered, no problems.
If you wanted to buy a $20 title on (for example) PSN and were choosing to pay via the PSN prepaid cards, you would be forced to buy two $20 cards to cover the cost of the game and tax, and you'd be left with credit on your account.
If you wanted to buy a $20 title on (for example) PSN and were choosing to pay via the PSN prepaid cards, you would be forced to buy two $20 cards to cover the cost of the game and tax, and you'd be left with credit on your account.
State sales tax is still charged on every purchase on the PSN store, according to the rates of your location.
@Gestault
Since you decided to call everyone mongoloids, then followed it with a half assed explanation of why MS Points are preferable to cash by virtue of the fact that MS Point cards are more convenient to use than PSN point cards under certain circumstances, maybe now you'd like to prove your superiority by actually offering an explanation as to why they're preferable in general?
A slow, well explained argument would be great, considering I'm a mongoloid and all.
Since you decided to call everyone mongoloids, then followed it with a half assed explanation of why MS Points are preferable to cash by virtue of the fact that MS Point cards are more convenient to use than PSN point cards under certain circumstances, maybe now you'd like to prove your superiority by actually offering an explanation as to why they're preferable in general?
A slow, well explained argument would be great, considering I'm a mongoloid and all.
Payday dlc on psn ,$9.99
5 games on a steam sale,$50
AN old snes classic on the Wii shop channel, 1000 Wii points.
Laughing at your friend as he attemps to figure out how much real money this 540 ms points item just cost him, priceless.
5 games on a steam sale,$50
AN old snes classic on the Wii shop channel, 1000 Wii points.
Laughing at your friend as he attemps to figure out how much real money this 540 ms points item just cost him, priceless.
@Gestault
You're overlooking one major problem. If you want a $1 add-on for Xbox Live, you have to add 400 MSP ($5) to your account.
On the PSN (or anything else), if you want to buy a $1 DLC pack, you just use your credit card to pay the exact amount of the purchase.
You're overlooking one major problem. If you want a $1 add-on for Xbox Live, you have to add 400 MSP ($5) to your account.
On the PSN (or anything else), if you want to buy a $1 DLC pack, you just use your credit card to pay the exact amount of the purchase.
I really don't see the problem with the point system, they already allow you to buy in 5 dollar increments on XBL, and at Gamestop in-store too (as well as other amounts). Unless you're buying nothing but 1 dollar Indie Games, you're never forced to buy more points than you need. It's exactly the same as Sony and Nintendo, and unless you're completely stupid, you know exactly how much you are spending.
Compared to PSN, where the lowest amount I can buy in a physical store is $10, and even then only at Best Buy, or Nintendo which forces me to buy $20, which is annoying if I just want one piece of 5 dollar DLC or a cheap game.
I've been forced to spend more money on PSN far more times because of this, because unless I want to trust Sony with my card info, I have no other options. In reality, MS probably has the most flexible system as far as acquiring money in multiple amounts in multiple ways, but everyone has to bitch because they're too stupid to do basic math and then somehow claim MS 'tricked' them into spending more money.
80 points is one dollar.
400 is 5.
800 is 10.
1200 is 15
1600 is 20.
It isn't difficult in the slightest, it just requires you to think just a little bit before blindly buying things.
Compared to PSN, where the lowest amount I can buy in a physical store is $10, and even then only at Best Buy, or Nintendo which forces me to buy $20, which is annoying if I just want one piece of 5 dollar DLC or a cheap game.
I've been forced to spend more money on PSN far more times because of this, because unless I want to trust Sony with my card info, I have no other options. In reality, MS probably has the most flexible system as far as acquiring money in multiple amounts in multiple ways, but everyone has to bitch because they're too stupid to do basic math and then somehow claim MS 'tricked' them into spending more money.
80 points is one dollar.
400 is 5.
800 is 10.
1200 is 15
1600 is 20.
It isn't difficult in the slightest, it just requires you to think just a little bit before blindly buying things.
The banana points are fine....because unlike PSN Cards and Wii Cards with real money values.....they can be sold at a discount or on sale.
As long as I can pickup Microsoft Points at a discount on sale during the year ....I am not complaining.
The only person who gets an advantage of XBL changing to real monetary values are the bozos who don't know who to conceptualize in their brains that 400 MSP = 5$
As long as I can pickup Microsoft Points at a discount on sale during the year ....I am not complaining.
The only person who gets an advantage of XBL changing to real monetary values are the bozos who don't know who to conceptualize in their brains that 400 MSP = 5$
You realize banana money is better than real dollar amounts because you can buy points cheap on sale because of this. No one is going to sell a $20 Xbox Live card for less than $20, but 1600 MS Points for $15? Sure thing!
@Gestault: The point system itself isn't the problem. Even the Wii had a simple-to-translate point function. 1 point = 1 cent. So 1000 points meant $10. It's that trying to convert dollars or cents to MS Points was an unneeded step.
@Renegade
"because unless I want to trust Sony with my card info."
Since point cards can sometimes be inconvienent, I'd recommend going the route of prepaid credit cards. Just add an isolated card to your account, and you can buy specific goods without fear of reprisal.
Microsoft was smart when they added PayPal support very early in the game, but unfortunately it still suffers the $5 minimum problem.
Sometimes I just want to grab a really cheap sale item (such as the $1 Escape Plan DLC) without paying it forward every time, you know?
"because unless I want to trust Sony with my card info."
Since point cards can sometimes be inconvienent, I'd recommend going the route of prepaid credit cards. Just add an isolated card to your account, and you can buy specific goods without fear of reprisal.
Microsoft was smart when they added PayPal support very early in the game, but unfortunately it still suffers the $5 minimum problem.
Sometimes I just want to grab a really cheap sale item (such as the $1 Escape Plan DLC) without paying it forward every time, you know?
I don't understand the hatred towards Microsoft Points. Since Microsoft uses points instead of cash, the consumer gets to buy point cards for less than their actual value. If I go to Amazon right now and buy $50 in Microsoft Points, I only have to spend $45. This should be a win for anyone.
"80 points is one dollar. 400 is 5. 800 is 10. 1200 is 15 1600 is
20."
since I'm not buying games from foreign countries I shouldn't need a conversion chart for pricing. I get the system is understandable when it's broken down but It's an arbitrary system that doesn't need to be there in the first place as it serves no real end goal than making people spend more money to purchase things.
Such a shame since I thought they were phasing out their moonbucks system. Oh well, no 720 for me I suppose.
20."
since I'm not buying games from foreign countries I shouldn't need a conversion chart for pricing. I get the system is understandable when it's broken down but It's an arbitrary system that doesn't need to be there in the first place as it serves no real end goal than making people spend more money to purchase things.
Such a shame since I thought they were phasing out their moonbucks system. Oh well, no 720 for me I suppose.
OK recalibrate the points for the CANADIAN DOLLAR TO at least a YEAR ago instead of 10 when we had 0.75 on the dollar CUNTS!
@Chris
Actually, I think you have to buy a minimum of $5 at a time on PSN to put into your "wallet". So if the price is, say, $7, you could buy exactly that, but if it is $4.99 you'll always have a penny leftover.
I *think*.
Actually, I think you have to buy a minimum of $5 at a time on PSN to put into your "wallet". So if the price is, say, $7, you could buy exactly that, but if it is $4.99 you'll always have a penny leftover.
I *think*.
@RenegadePanda
You have to be 100% blind if you "[...]really don't see the problem with the point system[...]"
it is not difficult, you are right, but it is inconvenient and stupid and a barrier for people like me, who don't like to get treated like idiots.
But as long as people see no problem in that shit, it will live on.
You have to be 100% blind if you "[...]really don't see the problem with the point system[...]"
it is not difficult, you are right, but it is inconvenient and stupid and a barrier for people like me, who don't like to get treated like idiots.
But as long as people see no problem in that shit, it will live on.
The MS fun bucks never really bothered me. I refuse to give them my credit card info, so I'd be buying the cards/codes anyway. With either straight up monetary values or the points, I'll likely end up with a little left over in my account from whatever i wanted to buy. I'll use it eventually.
That and, as Mr. Dixon pointed out, the rewards system has its uses.
That and, as Mr. Dixon pointed out, the rewards system has its uses.
@RenegadePanda
That's all fine and good, but at the end of the day, the MS point system exists only to deceive gamers. It's purely a means of disassociating actual amount of money you're spending from the act of purchasing something.
On top of this, it uses a base 8 system rather than a base 10 so that the actual amount of money being spent is further masked. It's pure marketing, and serves no purpose on our end.
The whole "I can buy them at a discount" is a weak argument at best ( I know it wasn't you that brought it up, but I figured I'd get into it anyway). You're still spending money that is designed not to feel like money. You're getting a sale on money so that you'll spend more money that doesn't feel like money. Essentially you get a tiny percentage off every individual purchase, but because you purchased the currency at a discount all at once, it feels like a much larger discount than it actually is. It's fucking brilliant.
It's marketing from top to bottom, and if you're making out in the end it's because other people subsidized it for you by paying too much. The system itself serves no purpose other than to make ways for people to spend more money, and they would abolish it tomorrow if it didn't do just that.
That's all fine and good, but at the end of the day, the MS point system exists only to deceive gamers. It's purely a means of disassociating actual amount of money you're spending from the act of purchasing something.
On top of this, it uses a base 8 system rather than a base 10 so that the actual amount of money being spent is further masked. It's pure marketing, and serves no purpose on our end.
The whole "I can buy them at a discount" is a weak argument at best ( I know it wasn't you that brought it up, but I figured I'd get into it anyway). You're still spending money that is designed not to feel like money. You're getting a sale on money so that you'll spend more money that doesn't feel like money. Essentially you get a tiny percentage off every individual purchase, but because you purchased the currency at a discount all at once, it feels like a much larger discount than it actually is. It's fucking brilliant.
It's marketing from top to bottom, and if you're making out in the end it's because other people subsidized it for you by paying too much. The system itself serves no purpose other than to make ways for people to spend more money, and they would abolish it tomorrow if it didn't do just that.
I have to say; real money sucks.
PSN wallet: 23p left
iTunes: 2p left
These kinds of systems suck because you always end up with left over cash that you just can't spend (well, unless you use a credit card). At least points aren't random, insignificant numbers that will end up never being spent, even if you have 20MS Points left, there's always the rewards scheme that allows you to get more each month guaranteed.
I will praise the day when there is a global currency used in all systems; Credits.
PSN wallet: 23p left
iTunes: 2p left
These kinds of systems suck because you always end up with left over cash that you just can't spend (well, unless you use a credit card). At least points aren't random, insignificant numbers that will end up never being spent, even if you have 20MS Points left, there's always the rewards scheme that allows you to get more each month guaranteed.
I will praise the day when there is a global currency used in all systems; Credits.
@hatman
Other than the 1-minute survey I take every month, I've literally never gone out of my way to earn any of those 1800ish points (over $20). It's all just points back for purchases, renewing my Gold subscription -- things I was already going to do anyway.
Other than the 1-minute survey I take every month, I've literally never gone out of my way to earn any of those 1800ish points (over $20). It's all just points back for purchases, renewing my Gold subscription -- things I was already going to do anyway.
@Alan
Neither defending nor condemning Xbox Points, but charging things with .99 added is also meant to confuse people with what they are actually spending.
Neither defending nor condemning Xbox Points, but charging things with .99 added is also meant to confuse people with what they are actually spending.
I hate this. I bought a 500 points bundle the other day, and was still 30 points short. Fuck Microsoft, their greed knows no bounds- I'm sure as fuck not buying their next-gen console.
I actually prefer MS's moon money for the simple reason that those cards are always on sale somewhere, which is not something I can say for Nintendo/Sony/Valve's prepaid cards.
I guess retailers have no issue selling "4000 points" for $30 whereas they would have a problem selling "$50" for $30
I guess retailers have no issue selling "4000 points" for $30 whereas they would have a problem selling "$50" for $30
The minimum purchase on PSN to add to your account is $5. Do you people ever actually make any purchases on this service? I do, that's why I'm familiar with it.
So far I've heard that there's (1) no state sales tax on PSN purchases, which is totally untrue, and (2) that you can make a purchase with your credit/debit card of $1, which is untrue. The $5 minimum is the same standard as is on Live.
So far I've heard that there's (1) no state sales tax on PSN purchases, which is totally untrue, and (2) that you can make a purchase with your credit/debit card of $1, which is untrue. The $5 minimum is the same standard as is on Live.
@myherozero
For sure, it's ubiquitous with shopping, and I'm not a fan of it either (mostly because I'm totally down with abolishing the penny).
@Gestault
Okay, now tell me why it's better to have points than actual cash values.
For sure, it's ubiquitous with shopping, and I'm not a fan of it either (mostly because I'm totally down with abolishing the penny).
@Gestault
Okay, now tell me why it's better to have points than actual cash values.
I just payed 5 bucks for Perfect WOrld "Zen" which I then had to transfer to my Champions Online account. Microsoft doesn't quite have the stupidest currency system yet.
And I just remembered Final Fantasy 11/14 ridiculous payment system.
And I just remembered Final Fantasy 11/14 ridiculous payment system.
@Alan Argentina
Since prepaid MS Points cards are always for sale somewhere below MSRP (which is rare for prepaid cards for Nintendo/Sony/Valve) and MS gives away points willy-nilly through things like Bing Rewards and Xbox Live Rewards.
Because they're not real money, you can massively discount them (the last time I bought points I bought 4000 point cards for $30), and you can get them for free for ridiculous things like "using Bing" (I've gotten about 6000 points from Bing rewards).
What exactly is the downside to MS's Moon Money? That it requires you to divide by 80?
Since prepaid MS Points cards are always for sale somewhere below MSRP (which is rare for prepaid cards for Nintendo/Sony/Valve) and MS gives away points willy-nilly through things like Bing Rewards and Xbox Live Rewards.
Because they're not real money, you can massively discount them (the last time I bought points I bought 4000 point cards for $30), and you can get them for free for ridiculous things like "using Bing" (I've gotten about 6000 points from Bing rewards).
What exactly is the downside to MS's Moon Money? That it requires you to divide by 80?
I actually like the MS Point system, because I have younger brothers without credit cards, and I can buy point codes for sale online and send points their way on the cheap, pretty much instantly. Points also make it easier for MS to do things like their reward system or points back on certain purchases. It does suck that the conversion rate isn't more direct (though it is still pretty simple for USD).
That said, this article is rather misleading. The pricing scheme suddenly changed and MS admitted it was an error--nothing about this indicates that points are "here to stay." Quite the opposite; their error was that they deployed it unexpectedly, not that they accidentally wrote code to convert and display all MSP prices in localized currencies. It definitely looks to me like they are planning to change.
That said, this article is rather misleading. The pricing scheme suddenly changed and MS admitted it was an error--nothing about this indicates that points are "here to stay." Quite the opposite; their error was that they deployed it unexpectedly, not that they accidentally wrote code to convert and display all MSP prices in localized currencies. It definitely looks to me like they are planning to change.
The cost of Live subscriptions, even when Gold's on sale, discredits any value gained from points card discounts.
@PossibleCabbage
Real world items are always on sale, too. Just about anything you'd like to buy can be purchased on sale somewhere. Why is it that this does not work the same way in the digital space, especially in the console digital space? It's definitely something to think about.
Just because something can be purchased on sale doesn't mean it will be. If your only means of affording something is to find it on sale somewhere, do you think the fact that sales are prevalent somehow negates the high price to begin with? It's added work that needs to be done, that won't always be done, and if it always was, it wouldn't be offered anymore.
And of course, the biggie: You may be buying points at a discount, but you're also agreeing to spend that much to begin with. The marketing psychology behind it is way obvious, people will spend more when they think they're saving money, and you've just agreed to spend more money than you probably wanted to in the immediate future before you even know if you'll ever have a reason to spend that much. Having money in your account that doesn't look like money after you've spent some of this funny money on the thing you wanted will likely drive you (you in a general sense here) to spend money on things you wouldn't have otherwise because you're not spending money you may not have, you're using points that are just sitting in an account. It's like buying retailer specific gift cards, another massive scam.
And the downside to moon money? Not only does it make you use a wallet system, it is designed specifically to obscure the amount of money you're actually spending. That's its purpose. If you're making out well in the end, it's only because others had to subsidize it for you. If everyone was getting a good deal out of the deception, they would lose money and would change shit up.
Real world items are always on sale, too. Just about anything you'd like to buy can be purchased on sale somewhere. Why is it that this does not work the same way in the digital space, especially in the console digital space? It's definitely something to think about.
Just because something can be purchased on sale doesn't mean it will be. If your only means of affording something is to find it on sale somewhere, do you think the fact that sales are prevalent somehow negates the high price to begin with? It's added work that needs to be done, that won't always be done, and if it always was, it wouldn't be offered anymore.
And of course, the biggie: You may be buying points at a discount, but you're also agreeing to spend that much to begin with. The marketing psychology behind it is way obvious, people will spend more when they think they're saving money, and you've just agreed to spend more money than you probably wanted to in the immediate future before you even know if you'll ever have a reason to spend that much. Having money in your account that doesn't look like money after you've spent some of this funny money on the thing you wanted will likely drive you (you in a general sense here) to spend money on things you wouldn't have otherwise because you're not spending money you may not have, you're using points that are just sitting in an account. It's like buying retailer specific gift cards, another massive scam.
And the downside to moon money? Not only does it make you use a wallet system, it is designed specifically to obscure the amount of money you're actually spending. That's its purpose. If you're making out well in the end, it's only because others had to subsidize it for you. If everyone was getting a good deal out of the deception, they would lose money and would change shit up.
@Alan Argentina
There are people who don't buy MS Points at a discount, those people aren't me. I like MS's moon money because it's an advantageous system for me (I get points below MSRP, so I get games below MSRP). If other people buy points at MSRP, well that's unfortunate for those people but that's what you get for not seeking out deals.
Moreover, I've never bought anything on Xbox Live that I wouldn't have bought if there weren't points sitting in an account. There are a ridiculous number of fantastic games on XBLA. There are actually tons of things I want, but haven't bought because I don't value them as much as other things.
So MS's Moon Money forces me to use a wallet system? So what? There's no chance I'm storing my credit card on file with Sony, Nintendo, or Valve so I'm forced to use a Wallet System no matter what. This is not a downside.
"Designed specifically to obscure the true cost" is the same reason that grocery stores do bulk pricing with odd fractions (e.g. Four boxes for $7). But you know what? As someone who can do basic math, this doesn't bother me.
There are people who don't buy MS Points at a discount, those people aren't me. I like MS's moon money because it's an advantageous system for me (I get points below MSRP, so I get games below MSRP). If other people buy points at MSRP, well that's unfortunate for those people but that's what you get for not seeking out deals.
Moreover, I've never bought anything on Xbox Live that I wouldn't have bought if there weren't points sitting in an account. There are a ridiculous number of fantastic games on XBLA. There are actually tons of things I want, but haven't bought because I don't value them as much as other things.
So MS's Moon Money forces me to use a wallet system? So what? There's no chance I'm storing my credit card on file with Sony, Nintendo, or Valve so I'm forced to use a Wallet System no matter what. This is not a downside.
"Designed specifically to obscure the true cost" is the same reason that grocery stores do bulk pricing with odd fractions (e.g. Four boxes for $7). But you know what? As someone who can do basic math, this doesn't bother me.
Yeah they need to round that shit UP
400 points = $5
800 points = $10
What in the SWEET FUCK where they thinking when they created this retarded system?
500 points = $5
1000 points = $10
Nope, that's just to fucking hard to grasp. We need to mind fuck every purchase with math needed to find out the exact cost of the item as everyone loves math!
Points are easier to spend than money as you are not as attached to 400 moon points as you are to that $5 you got for sitting at home on your laptop for 12 minutes like your aunt Susan does.
400 points = $5
800 points = $10
What in the SWEET FUCK where they thinking when they created this retarded system?
500 points = $5
1000 points = $10
Nope, that's just to fucking hard to grasp. We need to mind fuck every purchase with math needed to find out the exact cost of the item as everyone loves math!
Points are easier to spend than money as you are not as attached to 400 moon points as you are to that $5 you got for sitting at home on your laptop for 12 minutes like your aunt Susan does.
@mix
If "dividing by 80" is too much math for you, then you have a bigger problem than Microsoft's goofy point system.
If "dividing by 80" is too much math for you, then you have a bigger problem than Microsoft's goofy point system.
One thing I like about the funny money is that my chick is bad at math and doesn't really grasp the concept of the point system. For the longest time she thought the points were coming out of my gamerscore... Until she saw all the charges on her card LOL!!!
Wow, Alan. You're reaching at this point. The problem you're describing is present in any prepaid value increment. Having had every major point refuted, you're now decrying the whole system as being predatory?
A purchase costing $1.99 rather than $2 is equally deceptive. Gas pricing ending in 9/10ths rather than an even penny amount is equally deceptive. Discount reflected at register? Deceptive. Cash back on credit card purchases with a yearly fee? Deceptive.
You'll have difficulty being a customer of any company if you find these so oppressive, manipulative and confusing that you want nothing to do with the companies that take part.
I'll be playing videogames. I hear they're pretty fun.
A purchase costing $1.99 rather than $2 is equally deceptive. Gas pricing ending in 9/10ths rather than an even penny amount is equally deceptive. Discount reflected at register? Deceptive. Cash back on credit card purchases with a yearly fee? Deceptive.
You'll have difficulty being a customer of any company if you find these so oppressive, manipulative and confusing that you want nothing to do with the companies that take part.
I'll be playing videogames. I hear they're pretty fun.
@PossibleCabbage
What is this dividing you speak of?
I have never used my Xbox to buy anything online, I was only stressing as how stupid their points system is.
What is this dividing you speak of?
I have never used my Xbox to buy anything online, I was only stressing as how stupid their points system is.
J like how xbox fantrolls are making excuses for psn being vastly superior
" I've been forced to spend more money on PSN far more times because of this, "
You weren't forced, you chose not to use a credit card. The psn hack isn't an excuse, no one lost credit information or money like they did during the xbl hackings
" I've been forced to spend more money on PSN far more times because of this, "
You weren't forced, you chose not to use a credit card. The psn hack isn't an excuse, no one lost credit information or money like they did during the xbl hackings
@mix
If you want to know the real value in dollars of any item for sale on Xbox Live whose value is measured in MSP, all you do is divide by 80. Dividing by 80 is not hard.
So sure, Microsoft is obscuring the true value of things on XBL, but they're really only obscuring the true value of XBL items from idiots. So if Microsoft takes some extra money from idiots, that doesn't bother me because I am not an idiot and can divide by 80.
If you want to know the real value in dollars of any item for sale on Xbox Live whose value is measured in MSP, all you do is divide by 80. Dividing by 80 is not hard.
So sure, Microsoft is obscuring the true value of things on XBL, but they're really only obscuring the true value of XBL items from idiots. So if Microsoft takes some extra money from idiots, that doesn't bother me because I am not an idiot and can divide by 80.
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