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That's too harsh. MS shouldn't punish their clientele when it's their fault for letting the glitch pass by.
"The Xbox LIVE enforcement team will investigate individual players removed from the leaderboards for potential resetting of the user’s gamerscore. The reset would include all games, not just “Shadow Complex.”"
HOLY SHIT O____O
If I woke up to that....I would.....be very angry.
HOLY SHIT O____O
If I woke up to that....I would.....be very angry.
Really? That harsh? The fact that their stupid patching system is a huge pain in the butt to get stuff through (the Mass Effect patch for that new DLC that prevents it working with Platinum Hits version of the game has been done for like weeks now, it's just trapped by MS...which means I can't play it) kinda makes this seem outrageous. Even if they made a patch, I bet it would have taken weeks to get it through.
They put the glitch, it's their fault. Punishing their users for finding their stupid mistakes is beyond lame. I could see resetting the SC leaderboards or whatever, but all that other crap is way over the top. It's not like I modded my xbox to play pirated games or anything.
They put the glitch, it's their fault. Punishing their users for finding their stupid mistakes is beyond lame. I could see resetting the SC leaderboards or whatever, but all that other crap is way over the top. It's not like I modded my xbox to play pirated games or anything.
Orson Scott Card probably outed them himself.
Also, punishing people because MICROSOFT'S own system is broken. Well done, guys, ::clap::
Also, punishing people because MICROSOFT'S own system is broken. Well done, guys, ::clap::
Good.
Just because there was a glitch, doesn't give you the right to take advantage of it. It's not too harsh, considering these people basically stole the game when taking advantage of said glitch, just because it's there doesn't mean you should make excuses for why people who did it. It was wrong, if you did it, your fault, this is what happens.
The game was 15 bucks, that's not asking for a lot.
Just because there was a glitch, doesn't give you the right to take advantage of it. It's not too harsh, considering these people basically stole the game when taking advantage of said glitch, just because it's there doesn't mean you should make excuses for why people who did it. It was wrong, if you did it, your fault, this is what happens.
The game was 15 bucks, that's not asking for a lot.
Did these "cheaters" even get to keep the game because if the glitch? MAYBE I can understand if they kept it , but if they didn't resetting the score is a little messed up.
If I remember, it involved saving and quitting during the first boss battle or something. Normally the demo would kick you out after, but if you did something you could keep playing.
HOWEVER in the "cracked" version you couldn't save, and if you quit it was just the demo again, so you pretty much had to beat it in a sitting without turning your xbox off.
When you did beat it and quit out, it was the demo again.
So...yeah. They got one free run. Whop-de-do. I'm betting most people who did that ended up buying the game anyway, because it's got mad replay value.
HOWEVER in the "cracked" version you couldn't save, and if you quit it was just the demo again, so you pretty much had to beat it in a sitting without turning your xbox off.
When you did beat it and quit out, it was the demo again.
So...yeah. They got one free run. Whop-de-do. I'm betting most people who did that ended up buying the game anyway, because it's got mad replay value.
oh. well see that's not even a big deal then. I'm sure a relatively small number of people actually decided to beat it in one sitting. The rest of em' would probably continue playing and then end up buying the damn thing once they realize they can't save. Microsoft should just treat it as a reward for beta testing the demo.
Hmmm... Gamers can be a curious bunch. Doing things you're not supposed to be able to do is a tried and true tradition in video games.
I don't know if I agree with the severity of Microsoft's solution on this one. Especially since those who exploited the patch had to complete the entire game in one sitting & etc...
I think there are much more serious offenses taking place on Xbox live than a group of people trying out a simple single-player video game hack. Ah well...
I don't know if I agree with the severity of Microsoft's solution on this one. Especially since those who exploited the patch had to complete the entire game in one sitting & etc...
I think there are much more serious offenses taking place on Xbox live than a group of people trying out a simple single-player video game hack. Ah well...
I was about to rant about why doing this should be punishable, but I would be a total hypocrite if I did. Why? I used A LOT of BxR in Halo 2 back in it's hey day (For those who don't know, BxR was a button glitch that allowed the player to melee an opponent and quickly shoot right afterward, effectively killing said opponent almost instantly). This button glitch was in the game, and once everyone knew how to do it, those who were opposed to it's use were pretty much fucked because it became a tool in almost every player's arsenal after that. It was Bungie's fault for not finding the glitch in the first place, and knowing this, I still used it every time I was in close quarters. Is it wrong to use something that other players are so opposed to? That's debatable, but even Bungie themselves said it wasn't cheating.
Same principle applies here. You can't expect all your users to be little angels and respect you. Erasing their scores I can understand, but resetting their gamerscores? That is just evil as hell, and having branded them as a cheater (Even though they actually didn't cheat AT ALL) is just icing on the evil bastard cake.
Maybe MS is trying to make an example of these guys, and that's understandable (MS LOVES THEIR MONEYS!), but this is just going too far.
Same principle applies here. You can't expect all your users to be little angels and respect you. Erasing their scores I can understand, but resetting their gamerscores? That is just evil as hell, and having branded them as a cheater (Even though they actually didn't cheat AT ALL) is just icing on the evil bastard cake.
Maybe MS is trying to make an example of these guys, and that's understandable (MS LOVES THEIR MONEYS!), but this is just going too far.
@Dangsterr
They patched it into the current release. So if you download the demo today, it's the "fixed" version.
@WarZombie
BxR! Oh God the memories!!!! <3 The fights in the local tournies over it...oh God, priceless.
They patched it into the current release. So if you download the demo today, it's the "fixed" version.
@WarZombie
BxR! Oh God the memories!!!! <3 The fights in the local tournies over it...oh God, priceless.
@WarZombie
I think that glitch is a little different, considering that this glitch lets you steal the game and that is why there is a heavy punishment for it. No matter which way you put it, this glitch led to stealing of the game, which is wrong.
I think that glitch is a little different, considering that this glitch lets you steal the game and that is why there is a heavy punishment for it. No matter which way you put it, this glitch led to stealing of the game, which is wrong.
@Sanious
Here is a copy of the book I wrote. You can only read the first chapter, unless you exploit the secret glitch that lets you read the rest of the book.
But, if you use the glitch, you have to read the entire book in one sitting or the book will lock itself again.
This just doesn't seem the same as "stealing" to me. Microsoft gave people the entire book (game) in the first place and it had a faulty lock. What do you expect to happen?
Here is a copy of the book I wrote. You can only read the first chapter, unless you exploit the secret glitch that lets you read the rest of the book.
But, if you use the glitch, you have to read the entire book in one sitting or the book will lock itself again.
This just doesn't seem the same as "stealing" to me. Microsoft gave people the entire book (game) in the first place and it had a faulty lock. What do you expect to happen?
I just heard about the glitch that lets people play the full game without paying for it the other day. This moves quickly.
@xaliqen
That's a poor analogy.
It's a glitch, there are glitches in most games and it's unfortunate that there was this type of glitch in this game. It's stealing because you have to pay for it to play the full game, but instead people found a way not to, spread the word on the internet and proceeded to do this to not have to pay for a product that the rest of us had to.
That is like saying it's ok to take something from a store because the alarm system in the store is broken. I can't understand how anyone is defending this at all.
That's a poor analogy.
It's a glitch, there are glitches in most games and it's unfortunate that there was this type of glitch in this game. It's stealing because you have to pay for it to play the full game, but instead people found a way not to, spread the word on the internet and proceeded to do this to not have to pay for a product that the rest of us had to.
That is like saying it's ok to take something from a store because the alarm system in the store is broken. I can't understand how anyone is defending this at all.
That's just moronic, really. So some enterprising gamers find a hole in MS's download system and get hammered for it. I can understand patching up the game and erasing the offender's name off the leaderboard because some people just do glitches out of curiosity rather than any sort of greed, but the rest of it?
Absolutely stupid: anyone with half a brain would just make a new account and start over, and why not? They've got nothing left to lose because MS took it all away.
Absolutely stupid: anyone with half a brain would just make a new account and start over, and why not? They've got nothing left to lose because MS took it all away.
First of all, it's not stealing, it's copyright infringement.
Second of all, Microsoft should have demos that don't contain the entire the game, if they want to avoid this sort of thing.
Second of all, Microsoft should have demos that don't contain the entire the game, if they want to avoid this sort of thing.
@ Magnalon
God, so many good time with that thing. I miss Halo 2 and it's community. It just seemed a little more unified and everything. Clans were the best. I never got the hang of RRX though :(
@ Sanious
Doesn't matter. Sure, the glitch is there and you are using it to play the full version, but it doesn't justify the punishment to me. Resetting someone's gamerscore? Please tell me how that has anything to do with Shadow Complex. The glitch no being discovered is Microsoft's fault, nobody else's. Therefore, punishing people to that extent because of something YOU did is just wrong to me. Besides, they didn't even get to play the game more than once, it was reset after that one play through. Just because someone doesn't pay for something doesn't make them a criminal. You expect me to believe that every person who downloads music is Satan incarnate? No, they aren't. Same thing here.
God, so many good time with that thing. I miss Halo 2 and it's community. It just seemed a little more unified and everything. Clans were the best. I never got the hang of RRX though :(
@ Sanious
Doesn't matter. Sure, the glitch is there and you are using it to play the full version, but it doesn't justify the punishment to me. Resetting someone's gamerscore? Please tell me how that has anything to do with Shadow Complex. The glitch no being discovered is Microsoft's fault, nobody else's. Therefore, punishing people to that extent because of something YOU did is just wrong to me. Besides, they didn't even get to play the game more than once, it was reset after that one play through. Just because someone doesn't pay for something doesn't make them a criminal. You expect me to believe that every person who downloads music is Satan incarnate? No, they aren't. Same thing here.
The punishment still doesn't fit the crime. Sorry dude, but it's just too harsh for what's being done.
They should give Halos to people who didn't cheat. Then we can laugh for hours on end about people complaining about splitting the community and other retarded crap.
@ WarZombie
I agree with you in that the punishment is excessively harsh, considering the caveats around playing the full game, but I disagree with you in that the people who decided to take advantage of the glitch did nothing wrong.
There was a transgression, though it cannot rightfully be called 'theft' in a physical sense (since you do not keep the game), nor is it copyright infringement: it's akin to sneaking into an amusement park without paying the price of admission and riding all the rides in a day. What's been stolen is the experience of playing the game; while other people pay for the experience like they're "supposed to," the guys who took advantage of the glitch snuck in and took the full ride for nothing.
And to multiply the problem, the gamers not only stole from MS and the developers of the game, but also undermined any confidence future developers might have had in the online distribution method as a truly secure system of commerce. If I had paid for the game, then heard that some people had played the entire game for free, then I would probably feel a bit put out. I would also wonder exactly why I am paying for games when other people can simply steal them. If I had developed the game, I would probably punch myself for not programming two different versions instead of being an idiot and putting the full game within the demo. Either way, I would expect some type of assurance from MS that this sort of thing would not be a common occurrence.
However, I really don't think what MS is doing is approaching any level of rationality. They're basically going to cut someone's hand off for stealing a loaf of bread. I see this as unjust and just a bit immature: some punishments are met with an admonishment ("We saw that, don't do it again"), but this kind of penalty is purely vindictive, and the last time I checked, XBox Live is no longer the only online gaming service around, only the largest and most convenient. If MS is ever interested in finding a way to lose customers, throwing their weight around is a sure-fire way of doing so.
On the other hand, XBox Live is their playground and their property. Their house, their rules, regardless of how idiotic or draconian they may be. I can protest against this extreme sort of punishment, but at the end of the day, that's really all I can do.
I agree with you in that the punishment is excessively harsh, considering the caveats around playing the full game, but I disagree with you in that the people who decided to take advantage of the glitch did nothing wrong.
There was a transgression, though it cannot rightfully be called 'theft' in a physical sense (since you do not keep the game), nor is it copyright infringement: it's akin to sneaking into an amusement park without paying the price of admission and riding all the rides in a day. What's been stolen is the experience of playing the game; while other people pay for the experience like they're "supposed to," the guys who took advantage of the glitch snuck in and took the full ride for nothing.
And to multiply the problem, the gamers not only stole from MS and the developers of the game, but also undermined any confidence future developers might have had in the online distribution method as a truly secure system of commerce. If I had paid for the game, then heard that some people had played the entire game for free, then I would probably feel a bit put out. I would also wonder exactly why I am paying for games when other people can simply steal them. If I had developed the game, I would probably punch myself for not programming two different versions instead of being an idiot and putting the full game within the demo. Either way, I would expect some type of assurance from MS that this sort of thing would not be a common occurrence.
However, I really don't think what MS is doing is approaching any level of rationality. They're basically going to cut someone's hand off for stealing a loaf of bread. I see this as unjust and just a bit immature: some punishments are met with an admonishment ("We saw that, don't do it again"), but this kind of penalty is purely vindictive, and the last time I checked, XBox Live is no longer the only online gaming service around, only the largest and most convenient. If MS is ever interested in finding a way to lose customers, throwing their weight around is a sure-fire way of doing so.
On the other hand, XBox Live is their playground and their property. Their house, their rules, regardless of how idiotic or draconian they may be. I can protest against this extreme sort of punishment, but at the end of the day, that's really all I can do.
I can't believe so many people are basically saying:
Hahaha, someone put a lot of time and effort into this game then thought that they could make some money by selling it on-line. The moron shouldn't have left the hole open if he didn't want it stolen.
As someone who develops for-profit software this really pisses me off. You can't find every hole, and if someone finds you they should let the developer know so it can be fixed. Using that hole to get it for free is stealing. Telling everyone else how to steal it is even worse. Now you've handled things like a greedy child, and cost this person even more money!
Really, grow up, and realize that this is someones job. There's already a demo. Can't you just play that, decide if you like it or not, and if you do pay for it like a respectful person? Jesus.
Hahaha, someone put a lot of time and effort into this game then thought that they could make some money by selling it on-line. The moron shouldn't have left the hole open if he didn't want it stolen.
As someone who develops for-profit software this really pisses me off. You can't find every hole, and if someone finds you they should let the developer know so it can be fixed. Using that hole to get it for free is stealing. Telling everyone else how to steal it is even worse. Now you've handled things like a greedy child, and cost this person even more money!
Really, grow up, and realize that this is someones job. There's already a demo. Can't you just play that, decide if you like it or not, and if you do pay for it like a respectful person? Jesus.
The first guy to find it should get a cake.
Everyone else.. they knew what they were doing.
Although you couldn't save the game..... Hmmm...
Dunno what to think.
Everyone else.. they knew what they were doing.
Although you couldn't save the game..... Hmmm...
Dunno what to think.
Just to clarify for this article:
THIS IS NOT REFERRING TO THE FULL GAME FOR FREE GLITCH.
THIS IS REFERRING TO THE ACT OF SEQUENCE BREAKING TO GAIN UNFAIR ADVANTAGES ON THE SCOREBOARDS
Microsoft have no way whatsoever of telling whether or not you played through the whole game in one sitting. It was a glitch. No saves, no achievements, no scoreboarding.
THIS IS NOT REFERRING TO THE FULL GAME FOR FREE GLITCH.
THIS IS REFERRING TO THE ACT OF SEQUENCE BREAKING TO GAIN UNFAIR ADVANTAGES ON THE SCOREBOARDS
Microsoft have no way whatsoever of telling whether or not you played through the whole game in one sitting. It was a glitch. No saves, no achievements, no scoreboarding.
1. Glitch or not, it's still theft. If a store accidentally leaves it's doors unlocked and you walk in and take something without paying for it, you can't blame the store. It's still theft.
2. Why is everyone bitching about resetting the gamerscore? The points are useless and all the score really indicates is that you've played a lot of games. It doesn't proove that you're a GOOD player. The five tickets you might earn playing skee ball at an arcade are worth more than all of you whiners gamerscores combined. If you wasted time building your score, and you loose it for cheating, that's on you.
2. Why is everyone bitching about resetting the gamerscore? The points are useless and all the score really indicates is that you've played a lot of games. It doesn't proove that you're a GOOD player. The five tickets you might earn playing skee ball at an arcade are worth more than all of you whiners gamerscores combined. If you wasted time building your score, and you loose it for cheating, that's on you.
Curiously enough most of the punishment listed has only said people who cheated on the Leaderboards will have their gamerscore reset, it hasn't mentioned what will happen to the glitch abusers.
that's fuckin bullshit. punishing people for microsofts mistakes and labeling them as well? that's fuct up. i don't blame anyone for doing this, having to pay a certain amount to play each year and not a goddam thing to show for it.
chicken one day,
feathers the next,
bones left over to show you what you've eaten.
that saying don't even work because they ain't no chicken to begin with.
chicken one day,
feathers the next,
bones left over to show you what you've eaten.
that saying don't even work because they ain't no chicken to begin with.
It's not like the glitch unlocked the game forever and then gave you a free hat for beating it. Some people were able to advance farther than me in the demo. It's not the biggest heist of the century. I would much rather pay $15 dollars and be able to save than be forced to play it from the beginning in long sessions.
Dude, walking into a store and taking something is not the same as downloading a demo that contains the entire game and accessing it through a glitch.
Walking into a car dealership and taking a car without paying for it is not the same as someone building a car for you that will fall apart in two weeks unless you pay them. If you figure out how to keep the car from falling apart, it may be an illegal breach of contract, but it sure as heck isn't stealing.
Walking into a car dealership and taking a car without paying for it is not the same as someone building a car for you that will fall apart in two weeks unless you pay them. If you figure out how to keep the car from falling apart, it may be an illegal breach of contract, but it sure as heck isn't stealing.
you put a glass of water in the face of a thirsty man (who has pay for a rewardless service that the competition offers for free) he will most definitely drink it, regardless of consequence.
@ Hobo Johns
People are weird like that, though. Hell, even I know gamerscore is useless, but I still value every achievement I earn. To me, it's a good indicator of how much time you're going to spend with the game until the developer thinks that you're "done."
And one thing I think I should add about the 'glitch and play the game for free' thing. It's a slightly muddy case, but the offense might qualify as an actionable one. The OP wasn't all that clear on who gets what punishment, but if all you're losing is a gamerscore for snatching a game, consider yourself lucky.
Cheaters, on the other hand, can go fry.
People are weird like that, though. Hell, even I know gamerscore is useless, but I still value every achievement I earn. To me, it's a good indicator of how much time you're going to spend with the game until the developer thinks that you're "done."
And one thing I think I should add about the 'glitch and play the game for free' thing. It's a slightly muddy case, but the offense might qualify as an actionable one. The OP wasn't all that clear on who gets what punishment, but if all you're losing is a gamerscore for snatching a game, consider yourself lucky.
Cheaters, on the other hand, can go fry.
using the bxr glitch in halo versus stealing an entire game that a couple hundred thousand people paid for was a terrible comparison.
Thing is, while gamerscore is nice, I've gotten over the whole thing. I just fail to see what gamerscore has to do with this, and resetting it for someone who DOES care about it is bullshit. It's abuse of power. I think MS should reset their score in SC, and maybe a one month ban, but labeling and resetting their gamerscore (Besides, they didn't even cheat at anything, so that cheater label is completely out of line).
@ Mandarin Haggis
You definitely bring up some great points without getting all offended as if someone had punched your mother or something. However, I guess should be more clear: I'm not saying that they didn't do anything wrong, just I think MS is punishing them severely for something that they should have seen coming. It is MS fault, and they shouldn't be punishing them this much for it. You guys bring up the bread and store example, but even when a thief is caught the police aren't going to chop his hands off. If you get no Achievements and only only one play through of the game, then what are you actually getting out of the game? If it was me, I would remove their name from the Leaderboards and ban them for a month at most. Some of you peg me as supporting stealing, when it's not that what bothers me. It's the awful punishment that they are placing on the offenders that is bugging the hell out of me.
@ Mandarin Haggis
You definitely bring up some great points without getting all offended as if someone had punched your mother or something. However, I guess should be more clear: I'm not saying that they didn't do anything wrong, just I think MS is punishing them severely for something that they should have seen coming. It is MS fault, and they shouldn't be punishing them this much for it. You guys bring up the bread and store example, but even when a thief is caught the police aren't going to chop his hands off. If you get no Achievements and only only one play through of the game, then what are you actually getting out of the game? If it was me, I would remove their name from the Leaderboards and ban them for a month at most. Some of you peg me as supporting stealing, when it's not that what bothers me. It's the awful punishment that they are placing on the offenders that is bugging the hell out of me.
If Hot Coffee™ has taught me anything, it's that if I'm able to unlock content that the developers thought was inaccessible, I should be able to sue the developer because BOOBS
Whats the official statement to this policy? "We failed to see that a lot of our clients are brainless hooligan nerds with a questionable idea of morals and we think cutting them deep where it hurts will teach them a lesson?" Did they themselves ever play on X-Box Live? MS sure lives on its own little planet... But then again "XBLA Enforcement Team" sounds like something out of "Gears of War".
Am I the only one who doesn't give a damn about my Gamer Score? Seriously, it's as pointless as the achievement system in WoW. Sure it's nice to have little mini-goals in games, but they're still effectively meaningless.
In fact, in this digital day-and-age I suspect some people would want to have their account branded as a cheater. It would at least set them apart from the millions of "generic" profiles out there.
In fact, in this digital day-and-age I suspect some people would want to have their account branded as a cheater. It would at least set them apart from the millions of "generic" profiles out there.
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