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1:33 AM on 03.26.2007
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We literally just received a tip from a guy named Alex regarding Microsoft's apparent contempt for giving away free gifts to its many Xbox LIVE gamers. A short list of other things Microsoft despises includes puppies, rainbows, and the laughter of children. Ok, so, here's the scoop; Gears of War devs Epic and Marble Blast Ultra devs Garage Games have both, quite recently, completed additional downloadable content for their titles, and being the kind-hearted folk that they are, they decided internally to release it free of charge. Everything was going swimmingly up until the point where they handed it over to Microsoft for certification, at which point Microsoft seems to be holding them up indefinitely due to their desire to do give people something gratis. The above-linked forum post from Xbox.com quotes the latest issue of Game Informer magazine as well as NeoGAF's reaction to the latest 1up podcast, and the insights therein are poignant and realistic. The idea that Microsoft might indeed be artificially limiting the supply of free content to make their cut as well as salvage the deteriorating image of Scrooge-McDuck-ian developers such as EA, is at once realistic and alarming, and if we all lived in the 1700s, it's almost certain that these allegations would be enough proof to paint a red dollar sign on the chests of the Xbox LIVE certification heads shortly before burning them at the stake. Hit the jump for a full quote of the, um ... quotes.
From the April Issue of GameInformer: "But is there something that Microsoft isn't telling us? Could there be significant free content available in the Market place that the company is withholding? Game Informer spoke with multiple contacts within the industry about the process that publishers and developers have to go through to get their content on Xbox Live Marketplace. We also found out that there is free content that companies want to offer, but Microsoft's mandating that consumers pay for it. When a publisher has goods it wants to put up for sale, those prices must first be submitted to Microsoft. As part of an agreement with the company, publishers have signed a document that hands over final say to Microsoft regarding Market place pricing. From here, Microsoft takes a look at the marktet and prices items to maintain a balance among items of similiar value. Game Informer talked to Aron Greenburg, Xbox Live/Xbox 360 group product manager who denied that Microsoft has final say over Market place pricing. "It's ultimitaly up to the publisher," he told us. However, according to our sources, it's not up to publishers, and free content is being with held from consumers under the speculated motive of Microsoft wanting to make gamers accustomed to paying money for goods above and beyond wallpapers. Said one industry insider we talked to, "they want you in the store and they want you buying stuff that is at full price. "We've even been told that the rules of the game may vary depending on hoW much clout your company has with Microsoft. Greenberg denied knowledge of any motive to restrict free content, but admitted that the company does indeed adjust download prices. "there may be some situation or unusual case where there's content that's significant in nature and it would make other content look out of line, but I'm not aware of any case where we've told them that they couldn't offer it for free."
Recently the following post was made over in NEOGAF in light of the recent 1UP podcast: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=147804 Seems MS doesn’t want you to have cool DLC for free: Gears,Epic, & gamers get screwed #1 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- PREFACE: This is my GAF editorial, if you find holes in this, have at it. Bizarre Creations says they wanted Geometry Wars: Retro Evolved to be FREE over Xbox Live, but Microsoft wouldn't let them do this. They ultimately reached a compromise and charged the lowest amount Microsoft will allow, 400 points ($5). Back in November Pat Wilson, developer at Garage Games, announced that their team had just finished making a FREE downloadable update (that featured bug fixes, 11 new multiplayer maps, and new gametypes) and that it was in Microsoft’s hands for certification. Weeks later in his blog, Pat explained to fans why the free content will NEVER be made available. (The site he blogged at, angrydev.com, is no more, but you can still find the info he posted on numerous sites) On the record, Garage Games says "...we are unable to come to an agreement with our publisher for the Marble Blast Ultra update." Seeing as Garage Games is both the publisher AND developer of Marble Blast Ultra, you need to read between the lines. The gist of Pat’s blog says Microsoft won’t allow them to release free content for their game, but he doesn’t go into what their motivation might be, but allow me to. Reasons allowing publishers to release free content is BAD for Microsoft: 1.) Microsoft gets a cut of all microtransactions, and doesn’t make anything from free content, the Xbox division wants to make profit this gen 2.) It makes publishers who make pay content (something Microsoft wants to encourage) like EA look bad. Why would I want to buy stadiums for Madden or cheats for Tiger Woods when other publishers make kickass content like map packs for free? Consumers would begin to question the value of the Marketplace. Reasons why releasing free content is GOOD for publishers: 1.) Builds goodwill between the publisher and gamers, example: Epic 2.) Gives online multiplayer longer life without fracturing your user base Ok, I might be the only person who liked Marble Blast, so I didn’t bring this up when it happened. But now this policy is affecting Gears of War. Multiple sources, including today’s 1UP Yours podcast (1 hour 12 minutes in), support a rumor that Microsoft and Epic are currently fighting over the new Gears of War content. The content is basically finished, they are just fighting over pricing. Epic want to make all the new weapons and maps 100% FREE. Epic doesn’t want to fragment their online community, and frankly we’ve come to expect these gestures of goodwill from Epic. Microsoft, as you might expect, is not letting Epic do this. Mark Rein, as you can imagine, is PISSED about this. Gears fans, lets all pray Epic wins this fight. I'd like to thank Luke Smith for encouraging me to “think critically” about this issue.
What's interesting is that there was a subject on the very same matter at the Gears of War forum. Instead of answeringrather or not the rumors were true or not, Epic simply deleted the post. Not locked. Deleted. That raises suspicion even more... They usually confirm or deny a rumor, then close the thread if it's false.
What do you guys think? Blatant fanboy anti-Microsemitism, or a definite concern to those of us with Xbox 360s?
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Article contributed by Nex
38 comments | showing # 1 to 38
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What of it cocksucker?
Hey, don't screw up with Scrooge McDuck, ya hear me?!ò_ó
Meh, I'm definitely not surprised. Hey, they subtly mocked at Sony's European launch for us so we're even, right? Jerks.
thats pretty fucked up, geometry wars was supposed to be free?that means i shoulda had 400 points to do what i wanted with(i knew i shouldnt have rented nacho libre(even though i enjoyed it))
Server bandwidth and storage isn't free. Guess what everyone...Xbox Live is a business not a charity for the betterment of mankind. There are market realities, despite the fact that "journalists" and "gamers" want everyone free.
all i know is that epic had stated some time ago that all the new maps packs and whatnot would be free.
im not sure if it was in OXM or some other publication but i would put money on having read that, and if microsoft fucks people on that shit then bill gates and his company are a bunch of money grubbing douchebags even if he does give millions to charity.
i guess he doesnt realize that it costs a SHITLOAD of money for these games and some of us are working stiffs who enjoy this stuff but dont have endless amounts of disposable income to waste on paying for mappacks or stadiums and shit like that and it turns people off to the whole experience if you cant play the new maps with your buddies cause you had to pay your insurance bill or your phone bill and it kills the fun and experience of the whole thing.
bad move MS you blow cocks
@ SnakeEyes, don't give me that server cost and storage bullshit. Gears is easily one of (if not the) most popular 360 games out. Don't you think that alone covers their share of Marketplace bandwith? Also, what do you think free content will do? Make the game that much more popular. Microsoft is making a significant amount of money from the marketplace as it is. Why shouldn't Epic be able to release a bit of free content. THEY are the ones that have man power behind developing the content. Don't you think it costs more for them to dev it than MS to host it?
I dunno. Stuff gets held up by Microsoft all the time because they want to make sure it's perfect before it's put on the Marketplace (and they still blow it sometimes, a la Contra). I bet this is just another conspiracy theory.
I don't really care about Marble Blast or Geometry Wars, mainly because those are primarily single player experiences, and not big cash cows for MS.
But GoW is still selling well. It is a killer app, it's the reason people are buying the 360. And if Epic is forced to charge for it, then right of the box, there are going to be new GoW owners who will have to purchase brand new content.
Granted, I'm a big GoW fan and I'll download the content no matter the cost. But Epic is right in wanting it to be free. Charging for extra content definitely fragments the community. PC gamers know this better than anyone.
It wouldn't surprise me if this is being pulled behind the scenes (every company wants to make money), but I definitely believe if the content is intended by the publisher to be free, it should be free. I loathe the entire idea of microtransactions for game content.
Wow....first bad press I've seen about MS in a good while.
I can't see why they wouldn't want Epic to release their content for free...and it was said before, it's not only expected from Epic in general, but since Gears is LITERALLY not only the fastest, but best selling game on the system, I can't see why it would NOT have the luxury of free content, if only as a huge thank you to the fans as well as consumers.
Greed's a terrible thing, and makes for bad PR, guys...but..
...I fully expect that massive PR vacuum they've got to suck this thing up before it gets any bigger.
If MS is indeed holding back free content, they may want to start rethinking the strategy right about now, as it would be pretty hard for even the best PR firm to give this a positive spin ("um ... gamers don't understand it, but getting free content would actually take away from the experience. Take the PC for example. Free maps/mods/wallpapers have never worked. Really. Did you look?").
As I mentioned over on the 360 forums -- the fact that MS still hasn't opened up the Marketplace for user created content (described in detail by J Allard at E3) shows a stranglehold they're keeping on the Marketplace and I think that's an unfortunate thing. The promise held by the Marketplace -- the one described by Allard -- was amazing (and one of the main things that sold me on the 360 in the first place).
On a sidenote: Marble Blast Ultra is one of my favorite games on XBLA. If MS is holding back new maps, etc. they've just gotta be the biggest suckers of cock since ... er ... the Windows 95 version of Microsoft? Maybe you really can't teach an old dog new tricks.
While I'd believe it for Marble Blast Ultra, I wouldn't believe it for Gears of War. You think Microsoft can push Epic around? Can you say, "Gears of War 2 now a multi-platform release"? After all the acclaim and monstrous sales and awards up the yahoo for Gears of War, Cliffy and the gang aren't going to take shit from anyone, not even the big MS.
I'd wager Microsoft (hell, Sony and Nintendo too) are going to try to make micropayments as natural as buying a game itself, and while they may be able to pressure the smaller companies (especially the Live Arcade stuff), and the money hungry giants like EA have the same agenda, some developers aren't going to have any of it, and I'd say Epic is one of them.
If this is true, you can expect anything from Halo 3 to come with a price tag.
I agree that charging for maps will divide players. Those who buy the maps, and those who do not. Kind of breaks the gaming environment.
i <3 marble blast, fuck them for keeping it from me.
I can't say I'm surprised by this. I agree with Rasput1n....microtransactions will certainly split the gaming scene. As much as I hate it, I buy maps (i.e. Lost Planet) and addons. I can easily see paying for Halo 3 or Crackdown content. I know there will probably be tons of stuff for GTA IV.
On one hand I don't agree. I think games are far too expensive to be peddling downloadable content at a price as well.
On the other, these guys still worked their asses off for this downloadable content, and Microsoft knows that they can make money off of this. If you have to pay for some new maps in Gears Of War, and some of that money goes towards Gears Of War 2, is that not a good thing?
you allready payed 60$ for this. im pretty sure the game company and M$ have made a nice 10million+ or so from this game. + its M$, come on, billgates could loose the whole Xbox franchise and not even feel a dent on his wallet.
I know sony is fuggin up, but dont let that make up ur mind and pick M$ over... cuz if they win they will just monopolize in their evil ways just like windows.
That's fucked up! I wouldn't mind paying money for a gears expansion but like anyone else i'd prefer if it was free.
Fine, if you'd like free content, you can spend the thousands of dollars to buy, host and serv all the free content. Oh wait, that's right, it'll get hammered the second they go up for free.
No, M$ holding content that they don't want to release is FINE imo. They just need to offer an alternative distribution method that doesn't cost M$ money. Allow people that DO have the money (like Epic) to host their own free content. THEY are making enough money off of the game to support it, so they are the ones that should be required to lose money since THEY are the ones who want to release it for free. Sure, if M$ hosts it for them, and distributes it for them, of course they're willing to give the content away for free. But if M$ makes them host their own content, or rent their server space... I'd like to see Epic spout the words 'free downloadable content' as much as they are now.
Lastly, for all the retards who are complaining that GoW content isn't free. Ahh the attention span of the retarded gamer. Did you all forget the free mappack we already got? Yeah, it was only a few shitty maps, but it was free.
This is what people dont understand about M$ and the reason i dont have a 360, they'll throw some quick pos together in order to make a lot of money, even if its not good they still have the ability to market it and get the word out there that it is good.
Didn't Microsoft recently state that any download pack which is part of the 1st 1000 gamercore points has to be FREE(ala Crackdown)?
I guess we'll find out when the Gears and Crackdown DLC hits the marketplace.
so MS doesn't want to encourage free marketplace content so companies like EA can nickle and dime. got it.
i see both sides of the coin. but c'mon. seriously. we pay $50 a year (the only pay to subscribe online gaming service), you're gettin our monies, now you wanna hold back free microtransactions? they're lookin at it wrong. they're penny wise, pound foolish. if a company like epic wants to inject some longevity into the biggest selling title on your console, thats how you ensure that the lines are twice as long when GOW2 ships. they need to look at the bigger picture. there's more money in givin something away free once in a while.
If there's new weapons, then this is all a load of BS. According to policy, it has to be free. I heard about this the other day, and it was and still is a rumor. Now, I'm not a big conspirist, but it is wierd that Sony launches the PS3 in the in UK, and suddenly there's two big bad press nightmares for MS, one of which already was false...
Xbox Live and Games for Windows/Vista Live FTW!
Talk about a disaster waiting to happen...
Perhaps MS should allow free downloads (if that's what the publisher wants) for the first three months of a game's release, then charge for it afterwards. That way, everybody wins. Kinda.
http://uncutohh.ytmnd.com/
If the downloadable extras cost money, then the price of the actual games should be dropped, they are starting to go crazy with this shit.
@Galagabug, I don't play the games online, so I have an Xbox Live silver account and it is free, so I don't pay to be online. This allows me to get to the DLs and have a gamertag and such but I cant play GoW with my friend in Mass. I'm in the minority, Im sure, but keep in mind that some people don't pay microsoft monthly and still get access to the Downloadable content.
@deanshatcoffee, I think it would be a better Idea to go the opposite direction, and have it so that you have to pay for content when it comes out, but eventually it becomes free. That way, the people who are casual gamers that buy the games to have the "latest, greatest" edition of Madden or Halo would buy it all up on the spot, but people who are less into that specific game might be drawn into getting it later when some good downloads "become free", making it seem like its a great deal to get the game at that point. This way the people that have the money to get it will get it instantly, and the people who don't have hundreds of dollars to spend after getting the system and the games can get it later.
This is not simply bad for the consumer..look at the bigger picture. MS is potentially damaging relationships with publishers when they butt heads over things like this. They came into this gen with a huge advantage over their competition, but seem to be stumbling in a lot of areas that they shouldn't be.
MS is going to have to change some core things about their service(s) or they'll squander a large headstart. They touted user created content early on in the game, but have yet to deliver -- they still have no system in place that can allow this, XNA does NOT count (yet). Sony, on the other hand, has a much more open system that will and can allow for things like Unreal 3 MODS, user created maps, etc and that's only the beginning.
In one way, Sony leaving many things up to individual third parties seems to be hindering their service; but when you think about it critically, it leaves so many possibilities wide open (quality control, notwithstanding). MS on the other hand has a much more controlled environment, which leads to hand slapping and red tape that not only frustrates consumers, but publishers/developers, too.
In the end, it's big business driven by money on all sides, so you can't fault them for trying to maintain their model. Also, cocks.
also they didn't let geometry wars be free like originally planned
if the game was a expandable game... that we would have to buy each update, then i think the game should have sold for less than 60$... cuz now, once everyone is hooked, they spend 10-20$ for each friggin update, thats worse than paying for a MMO.
Thats why, also cocks.
Hello people.. all of you who are suggesting this is alright, because apparently 'free is bad' or something because it costs money to host all the files people download... are you all Silver Membership holders? All of you? Because I have a feeling you pay $50 bucks a year just like me. Guess what that money pays for (with some healthy profit on the side)? Online storage and bandwidth!!! Shocking!!!
So yes, it should be fucking free. And far be it from me to agree with everything Gabe and Tycho say, but damn, they should be giving away hard drives for free also, hell, the only thing they are good for is buying shit to store on them, they should be free and come with 1000 free gamerpoints just to get people used to the system.
And to quote Tycho yet again.
"You'll pay twenty when it should be ten,
And ten when it should be five.
And you'll pay five when it should be FREE,
As sure as you're alive."
That's why it won't be free. Because, as has been said above, i'll buy it whatever it costs.... THAT's why it won't be fucking free. Microsoft can only make as much money as you give them smart guys.
Also, this has a very distinct odor of 'truthiness' to it. Which is why everyone takes it so seriously. It sounds like something which wouldn't be surprising if it was true.
Epic is the one who is paying developers to create these add-ons, I don't think its fair for Microsoft to force them to charge their consumers.
I've already paid $60 for the game and $50/year for xbox live, I might be in the minority here but I refuse to pay more money to enjoy my game.
I think the real problem is that Microsoft has not clearly defined (or developers have not learned) the difference between an update and additional content. A clarification to quell a PR disaster is probably in order.
If you make a patch or an update, that should be license-free, so long as you don't make updates too often (certification exists for a reason). Developers have the right to fulfill their obligation to provide quality to their customers.
However, the XBox is a content platform. If you're part of a distribution network, you cannot give content away for free. Period. If you release a game, pay your license fee, and start releasing lots more content, this is an issue. Releasing an incomplete game can be seen as a way of circumventing license fees.
I don't disagree with Microsoft's decision if this is true, but there needs to be a more solid definition -- and full understanding by the developers -- of where the lines are drawn, and it needs to be done BEFORE content is created.
Then again, given the quarrel between Microsoft and NVidia with the original XBox, I wouldn't be surprised if MS "forgot" to tell developers a few things about the fees they have to pay. The XBox is not a PC.
As they always do, the Microsoft mods locked the thread this article links to as soon as the mods got online and saw that it had made some news on a couple of gaming blogs, like Destructoid (MS still hasn't figured out that in other parts of the world it's day when it's night in the U.S. and doesn't usually have any mods on the forums in the early morning hours. From about midnight to 6 AM, it's complete anarchy over there). If you still want to read it, I'd do so soon, as locks are almost always followed by complete deletions of threads. But way to squash the rumor, MS! Good on you! Lock it up and hope it goes away.
Am I the only one who does not read all the huge long comments and just skips to the one sentence ones?
More Gears of War players = more fans = more downloads = more money
Epic = lucky shot in the dark with Gears = above
EA = MS
whoa, never would of thought of that, not
I guess you have to make money somewhere, and if you try it with the gaming world, everyone finds out. Just like how politicians were trying to pressure game companies to pay them money to make their lives easier, or else they would try to do shit to make it harder.
I am sure Microsoft has been sneaky about making money with everything they do, but this time they were found out. Now all we have to do is make sure the gaming community uproars about it as loud as hell, and make them stop.
While we are at it, can we make EA make better games? Seriously, other than Maxis, their games have been going down hill for 3 years.
Either way, lets go after MS for now, get everyone to complain, then they have to stop. They can't afford a bad rep. It will cost them millions monthly.
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