Has it really taken so long for something like this to happen? My JOURNALISM throws up no similar suits, save for a lone man filing over his scratched discs. If this is the case, then Microsoft has finally been served with a lawsuit regarding the notorious "Red Ring of Death" error found on the Xbox 360.
Filed in The States -- obviously -- the suit claims that an excessive number of consoles have fallen prey to the infamous "three red lights" issue and that Microsoft hid the extent of the problems so it could compete against the Wii and PS3. The suit wants refunds for the State of California, not satisfied by MS' extended warranty.
I'm not really a fan of most lawsuits, but Microsoft was certainly asking for trouble by designing a console with such shocking negligence. When you spend that kind of money on something, you expect it to work. The Xbox 360 has so much extra baggage associated with it that it is, at its worst, the antithesis of everything a good videogame console should be.
It's just a pain in the arse that it has great games like Castle Crashers on it. Which I can't play right now ... because my 360 is being repaired.
Jim Sterling serves as reviews editor for Destructoid.com, head of the Podtoid podcast, and produces a number of news stories, original features, one-of-a-kind videos. With his passionate argumentative style, controversial opinions, harsh delivery, and dedication to brutal honesty Sterling is a name that you can't help but recognize.
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Contest:
8:22 AM on 10.16.2008
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I applaud their efforts for repairing the consoles.
They treat you better than the other two companies which do have issues with their hardware too, they just don't have a catchy name like 'RRoD'.
How many PS2s did people here go through? PS1s?
Hardware failure happens. All I ask is that they man up and take care of it when and if it fails on me.
Down here in Australia we don't get sent out coffins annoyingly enough...we just tape a postage paid thing to a box at our own expense (and god help you if the damn thing breaks in postage they don't cover that in warranty).
Microsoft reaction to the whole thing has been admirable (with the mass warranty extension but this sort of thing should never have happened to begin with and so many YEARS into the consoles life the problem should quite frankly not exist.
Just as you point out with such breathtaking insight, JOURNALISM and DESTRUCTOID in the same sentence are a contradiction in terms.
I still have the first PS1 I ever bought, which still works and is from the first release, and the first PS2 I ever bought. Which is from a year after launch. Either way both work fine.
All my friends who bought 360s have suffered some sort of failure since they've bought it and have had to either send it in to be repaired or just hope it worked itself out.
That aside, it is nice that Microsoft is willing to work with people on the issues with the 360. It'd just be nice if there werent issues is all.
The second one I received was manufactured prior to the original I bought, had a rattle inside of it that wasn't the tilt sensor, and one of the USB ports on the front of the console was completely destroyed.
I've got friends that received units that were in far worse shape then my replacements, ranging from busted faceplates, defective disc drives, to ones that looked like they've been dropped off a six foot tall ladder before shipping.
Our reward for putting up with crap consoles? A free month of Live. Wow, thanks Microsoft. If this third console is a turd, I'll be looking for something a bit more than another Live card. Give me a 60GB HDD or something for having to put up with this nonsense.
Here's hoping the third time is a charm.
Thing is, technology is getting more and more complicated and less and less durable. Mainly due to having to be so complicated. Take phones, for example, how many times did the original Nokia "face-off" break? never! nowadays I can't answer my phone without the thing going doolally.
As a side note... I had a big prob with my PS3 not playing DVDs and a freezing in-game XMB. I shit my pants but it worked when I rebooted it (3 and a half hours of agony waiting).
Anyways, I was advised to do so by Sony, who also told me they would replace it if it still fails by sending a courier round the next day with a different console and taking my one away. They also mentioned that as a token of good will they would have replaced it six months after the warranty ran out (it broke a year to the DAY that I bought it).
Anyway it works again now BUT I do have that "I'm not invinsible" feeling that I'm sure 360 owners wake up to everyday.
Bottom line: Get a PS3 Jim. New start in the States, new console. Sorted.
Main Entry:
neg·li·gent
\-jənt\
Function:
adjective
Etymology:
Middle English, from Anglo-French & Latin; Anglo-French, from Latin neglegent-, neglegens, present participle of neglegere
Date:
14th century
1 a: marked by or given to neglect especially habitually or culpably b: failing to exercise the care expected of a reasonably prudent person in like circumstances2: marked by a carelessly easy manner
— neg·li·gent·ly adverb
synonyms negligent , neglectful , lax , slack , remiss mean culpably careless or indicative of such carelessness. negligent implies inattention to one's duty or business <negligent about writing a note of thanks>. neglectful adds a more disapproving implication of laziness or deliberate inattention <a society callously neglectful of the poor>. lax implies a blameworthy lack of strictness, severity, or precision <a reporter lax about accurate quotation>. slack implies want of due or necessary diligence or care <slack workmanship>. remiss implies blameworthy carelessness shown in slackness, forgetfulness, or neglect <had been remiss in their familial duties>.
thats why i got a ps3(to play gta4 with no problems) and have yet to have any issues with it. its just like microsoft to sell something that doesnt work for the first couple years before they start to address the problems.
i want my money back.
Nintendo and Sony do that. why Microsoft doesn't?
Also, Still the service center in Germany (where all the eastern Europe xboxes go) SUCKS so BAD... SUCKS Worse than the Cruis'n' on Wii.
Jim, shame on you. I'm usually on your side, but this article hits 10 on the 'suck-o fuck-o' meter. I could see people being pissed about scratching discs...Although I personally haven't had the issue (nor anyone I know IRL) that is something where you are having your property damaged and it will not work. In that respect, replacing the console, and/or the discs in question is the only viable solution.
But for you to get your tampon in a bunch and not make mention that the PS2 had a higher fail rate than any modern console is kind of a joke. Let me be clear, I'm not comming at this from a fanboy perspective...But I think anyone who put a decent amount of time into games on the PS2 has had at the very least 2 consoles.
The RRoD suck, no doubt, but the assertion that a defect was hidden so it could compete with hardware that wasn't out at the time of its release is kind of flimsy. I'm sure every company cuts corners when able to...But I can't see a company knowing that a product had such a big issue pushing it under the rug when the backlash could be an enormous PR hit...Especially when it comes to fickle and irrational gamers (we are all that way)...Why would you take a shit on a group of consumers that rule the internet with the passions and enjoyment of gaming? That's the worst choice any money making venture could make with their target consumers.
And MS made the attempt to put their best foot forward by extending warranties, and trying to have a quick turnaround. That doesn't make it all better, but it shows a willingness to try to work with the consumer. It isn't perfect, but nothing ever is.
Electronics will always have failure rates...Reguardless of who makes it, or what it is. This is an attempt to make a quick buck over something that the plaintiffs should get a kick in the nuts for.
Now I'm gonna go and play Castle Crashers mother fucker...
Mind you, I have never had problems with any consoles I've ever owned, but I have many friends who went through PS2s like nothing. We were never able to finish Resident Evil 1 because my friends PS1 kept overheating.
Yes, when paying this much for a console, i don't expect it to break, but when everything goes to the lowest bidder just to keep the systems now days within reason, who can blame them. We demand more but aren't willing to pay for it.
Or are you?
Instead of taking it in for repairs, they immediately exchanged it for a new one! :D I was kinda lucky, they just had received a new shipment. Anyway, I'm very satisfied about the way they handled the problem, considering we don't even have official Live support here (we use US's). Of course it would be better if there were no problems at all, but you can't say Microsoft hasn't made an effort to leverage it.
Xboxer: Dude, wut? I'm not denying the PS2 had hardware faults, but that's hardly the story here, and nowhere did I say I fully support the lawsuit. My stance is that hey, lawsuits are often shit, but MS was asking for trouble. Had Sony dealt with lawsuits too, they'd have been asking for it as well.
I'm not going to bring up the faults of other companies as a way of exonerating Microsoft. I could do that for everything. No, this is a story about MS' fuck ups, not Sony's fuck ups.
Just because Sony made poor hardware last generation, that doesn't make Microsoft much better this generation.
Oh, and my PS2 from six years ago still works. I just saw my fifth Xbox 360 die.
Jim... are you sure you're just not... doing something wrong?
We have our dev kits on in our offices all day long. sometimes 24/7 for weeks, and we don't have that kind of failure rate.
Jim, are you my flatmate? I'm pretty sure you might be him in disguise.
You see, this is a common quote Skankerzero.
Wrap it in a towel Jim. I heard some shit about towels and 360s but I'm not sure what.
Like getting a replacement?
I've only had the RRoD once. The first 360 was banned from XBL (and I still don't know why since it was brand new and I only used it to play Gears online) the second crashed upon purchased, the third had disc read errors and this latest has the RRoD. Yes, I mean fourth not fifth Xbox. Still fucking shoddy.
That clears it up.
Shoddy yes. Still seems out of the ordinary to me.
I only know one person out of my group of friends that had the RRoD.
O RLY??
I'd love to see you prove that and Jim is right. This post wasn't about Sony's problems it's about the 360's problems. Now, in the spirit of seeing the new Bioshock 2 trailer I will say this to you:
"Would you kindly take your bullshit elsewhere".
The only people offended by this are probably Xbots...I'd be in the same boat as them if it was something on Nintendo though.
My elite is on the low shelf, horizontal, next to my 3do with wires, controlers, and from where i stand, 15 - 20 blu-ray movies / 360 games / dvds on top of it.
it's all dusty too.
we play it a lot.
guess I'm just one of the lucky folks.
Microsoft have done everything they could reasonably do the remedy the problem, as well as a few pretty unreasonable things. They doled out $1 BILLION to fix the issue. That is the financial equivilant of seppuku as far as I'm concerned. If you haven't been satisfied by now, all you want is the money or to hurt Microsoft. Either way, someone is being an litigatory asshole. It's not about consumer rights any more. It's about revenge.
However, defending Microsoft and trying to say the technical problems are exaggerations or implying that Sterling is doing something wrong in losing 4 or 5 360s is... just plain dumb. The 360's technical problems are WELL documented, it's not at all unusual for people to have lost 2+ 360s to RRoD or other causes since '05. More recent models have been modified to diminish the failure rate but it's not disputable that 360s made from '05 - '07 have extremely high failure rates. If you really think otherwise then you haven't been paying attention.
And it's not improper care. Maybe back in '05 and early '06, but since then people have developed healthy respect for their 360's fragility and take good care of the damn things. It's not user error, it was a flaw in the manufacturing. It's great that Micro is doing a lot to make up for it but it just shouldn't have happened in the first place, period.
Consumers don't deserve the right to NOT be afraid to turn on their console for free for red lights!
They did that in hopes to not lose customers and to hope to not deal with these kinds of lawsuit. Don't kid yourself. The fact is, Microsoft gave a big F you when they released a product with such a large failure rate. They chose getting a large market share first over quality control.
meant @Edge of Battle. Falcon has a good viewpoint
Getting RRoD #2 = :o(
Getting it fixed & returned quickly, but still having to wait a week until the license issues (XBLA games and Halo 3 DLC) are fixed = :o/
Reading Destructoid and playing my own personal Mega Man Marathon while waiting = :o)
"The waiting is the hardest part" -Tom Petty
I'm for it because I've had 4 faulty consoles in a 24 month's time.
I'm for it because EVERY time I've dealt with MS support I get a wildly varying reaction of tech support from them. Some of their people are quite competent, but more often than not I get stuck with some retard, who's hell bent on taking me through a series of steps that have never worked and have never made a console functional again.
To go through all that and be out of a console for a month at a time, to only be compensated for that one month, but yet every game I've paid for on that console's fantastic online platform is tied to the dead console for MONTHS after I sent it in.
The fact that this console has purposely designed itself to have such rigid DRM on an already closed platform is beyond stupid.
For that, I'm willing to join in on a class action suit.
My last console was a replacement because the RF adapter for the controllers stopped working about 3 weeks outside of MS' RROD replacement warranty.
While I agree that this was a non-warranty repair, it was in fact a non-warranty repair on a console I did not buy. It was for a console that MS sent to me. I feel that any ancillary components that fail on a replaced console are entirely at the fault of Microsoft because I've had to have my original hardware replaced.
I wouldn't have had any unkind words towards Microsoft had my original 360 stopped working because of this issue.
My ps2 is the only console that has gone a bit weird...unless you count all the cartridge based sytems which you had to blow the games to make em work..
Harware fails, it seems 360 has had ALOT of press this is becasue games are big business these days!! if you dont like it sell your refurbed 360 and get a Wii or PS3, just stop moaning.
I won't argue that this should have never happened, but I find people dwell WAY too much on the past. The past is what it is, and no amount of litigation is going to invent us a time machine. I really think Microsoft's support of the issue has been remarkable. The RRoD is largely resolved with new hardware revisions, but the sucky part is getting stuck with lousy referbs (which is why I maintained a Best Buy exchange warranty for the first two years.)
What REALLY bugs me is that people treat this like it was a consumer safety issue or that Microsoft will leave them high and dry in the event of a hardware failure. They talk like "I shouldn't have to wake up every morning worried that my 360 will RRoD today." If they had half a brain, they would realize that Microsoft will replace it. You will be out the time you could have spent playing it of course, but if you want to do something about that, go buy a PS3 or a Wii while you wait.
But that would be the biggest waste of money. As soon as a working 360 finds it's way back to you, you will go right back to playing the crap out of 360 games, neglect the Waitstation, and start playing a weekly game of Wii Dusting. Trust me, I have them all and I only get my money's worth out of the 360, despite two failures to date.
I will say, however, that everyone I know who has a 360 has had a RRoD. That's sad. That doesn't necessarily mean that I agree with this lawsuit, though.
'While I agree that this was a non-warranty repair, it was in fact a non-warranty repair on a console I did not buy. It was for a console that MS sent to me. I feel that any ancillary components that fail on a replaced console are entirely at the fault of Microsoft because I've had to have my original hardware replaced. '
Very clever, wouldnt have thought of that, KUDOS to your sir!!
I do not know a single person who still has their launch 360. Lady I work with just RROD last week, my bro is on his 4th, my friend out of town is sending his in next week just needs printer ink to print the shipping form and my other buddies on his 3rd and this one his DVD is not ejecting, he has to use a butter knife to get the games out.
Anyone want to buy my Ford Pinto?
I also agree that Microsoft has done a good job of covering their f-up by extending the warranty (mine was 8 days past) and taking care of the shipping.
There is a link.
@Jim Big Man Sterling
Have you got a monilce to imitate the Games Master? you should so photoshop your head onto his!
And even if you get a failure, you aren't a sucker. You just send it in and get it fixed. It's a minor inconvinence, but I'd much rather take the wait than miss out on the games all together.
All of my gaming systems besides my original NES work like they're fresh out of the box... thats a SNES, N64, Wii, Game Boy, GBA, Xbox, PS1, PS2, PS3, and PSP.
Im unfortunately on my 2nd Xbox 360 (a new elite), and this ones about to kick the bucket too. I have a friend on his 2nd 360, another on his 3rd, another on his 5th. And Microsoft has extended the RRoD warranty to cover these faults (even though it seems like the # of single light issues are increasing), but the fact is that Microsoft still new of these problems before the product was ever launched.
the fact that I'm AFRAID every time I turn my console on, or every time I play for more than a couple hours. If PS3 had the library Xbox has I'd make the switch in a heartbeat.
Is there one person here that doesn't at least know someone who's console RRoD? That means Microsoft isn't fixing the problem. If they sent out new, working machines to replace busted ones instead of refurbished soon-to-RRoD consoles that'd be better.
Because I'm so scared of RROD I treat my Xbox better than I have anything I've ever owned, there's no scratch on it...if it dies and as a replacement I get some busted up old hag like some of you are reporting I'd be furious. They deserve the lawsuit, if anything they'll learn not to take advantage people and sell products that work. Lawsuits at the very least bring accountability.
Okay, cool. Links have a tendency of blending in with the article itself and I must have glossed right over it. I wish DToid would redo the links so that they stand out a bit more, but it's no big deal.