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Metal Gear Solid theme plagiarized? John Carpenter nods vigorously ...

3:48 AM on 10.27.2007, Nex 44 comments

     Controversy

I realize that bringing this up, for many of you, is like telling a group of Irish-Catholic nuns that Jesus knocked up a hooker, but unlike the mysteriously popular work of Dan Brown, that film up there is completely sans Tom Hanks.

For those of you who need commentary on everything, that video up there depicts a Russian journalist meeting with Hideo Kojima and demonstrating a piece of music by Russian composer Georgy Sviridov. A piece created by the late Mr. Sviridov in 1974 -- according to my research, it is more than not likely a piece entitled Snow Storm, based on the poetry of Alexander Pushkin -- that sounds suspiciously similar to the theme used in Kojima's Metal Gear Solid games. While Kojima seems rather amused by the similarity, he neither admits his famous theme to be derivative, nor does he claim it isn't. The video ends by superimposing the song over footage of Metal Gear Solid 4 and never definitively resolves the issue, but the similarities are quite obviously there.

I've included a performance of the MGS theme during a Video Games Live concert after the jump for those of you who would like to compare and contrast. Once you've heard both tunes, feel free to speculate as wildly as you'd like. For my part, I'd like to add: Jesus was black, JFK was eaten by a bear from space and the CIA makes billions of dollars yearly by producing snuff films starring livestock and young Korean women. 


Next page: More Hideo Kojima stories




Professor Pew's Avatar
Professor Pew at 10/27/2007 04:50
In Soviet Russia, overhyped game series plagiarizes You!
CrackaSlim's Avatar
CrackaSlim at 10/27/2007 05:09
The fact that Kojima is just laughing it off as opposed to being defensive about it seems more like a strange coincidence as opposed to plagiarism.
realyst's Avatar
realyst at 10/27/2007 05:11
Either way, I think I like the Russian song better O_o
h3lios's Avatar
h3lios at 10/27/2007 05:13
In Soviet Russia, overhyped game series plagiarizes You!

i thought this was about MGS and not Halo?
Qalamari's Avatar
Qalamari at 10/27/2007 05:32
@ Volomon:
I apologize for being anal, but I can't let that one slide by. The MGS2 theme was written by <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Gregson-Williams">Harry Gregson-Williams</a>, who isn't Japanese.

On to the tinfoil-hat stuff. I agree that the piece isn't exactly well known, but (just to play devil's advocate) that could theoretically make it easier to plagiarize, since there's less chance of getting caught. Additionally, Wikipedia says the piece was originally written for a 1964 movie and was played heavily following its release in Russia, so it's not outside the realm of possibility that Williams could have heard it.

Personally, I don't think it was plagiarized. What we hear seems to fall within the realm of coincidence. To steal an entire melody would be career suicide for a composer, and, as has been pointed out, the two compositions do vary significantly. However, it's possible that Williams may have heard the piece and referenced it subconsciously while scoring MGS... it's still played from time to time on classical radio stations.
Volomon's Avatar
Volomon at 10/27/2007 05:34
Oh, well thx for pointing that out I guess.
Qalamari's Avatar
Qalamari at 10/27/2007 05:36
Oops, not sure why that link didn't work. Try <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Gregson-Williams">this.</a>
Qalamari's Avatar
Qalamari at 10/27/2007 05:47
Ok, apparently I just suck at following directions. This should work though.
Tetris Hermit's Avatar
Tetris Hermit at 10/27/2007 05:55
The composer is dead so it's ok to stealzors it.
foxhound009's Avatar
foxhound009 at 10/27/2007 06:32
I love mgs... and from what I've heard on gt the guns of patriots is the last part..... Kojima, konami.. I really wouldn't mind 20 more of those mgs'es of yours :) please make more... make a clone of snake and here we go :P
Banj's Avatar
Banj at 10/27/2007 07:14
There are only 7 notes on the scale, everything will be repeated sooner or later.

However, "Take Me Out" by sh*t fashion band Franz Ferdinand blatantly rips off "Trampled Underfoot" by Len Zeppelin and that's just deeply gay of them.

Also, this just in: Metal Gear Solid sucks balls.
blu3steel's Avatar
blu3steel at 10/27/2007 07:43
This kind of thing happens all the time. Listen to "The Planets" by Gustav Holst and tell me that John Williams didn't steal that for Star Wars (or any other space opera).
Banj's Avatar
Banj at 10/27/2007 08:24
* "Len Zeppelin" is a plumber who lives down the end of our street. Jimmy Page was so impressed with his name he nicked it, tricked it and started a rock band.
DrScience123's Avatar
DrScience123 at 10/27/2007 08:45
This just in, Harry Gregson Williams didn't write the MGS theme song. It was originally composed by Tappy Iwase for Metal Gear Solid 1.
bluki's Avatar
bluki at 10/27/2007 09:05
and DrScience123 just saves the day....
Cheeburga's Avatar
Cheeburga at 10/27/2007 09:15
Woah.
DOOM's Avatar
DOOM at 10/27/2007 09:18
He always steals ideas, just ask JOHN CARPENTER!
cjpkiller's Avatar
cjpkiller at 10/27/2007 09:35
hmm... there are slight differences... but thats still way too close for comfort.
oh well elvis stole a bunch of black peoples music and claimed it as his own and he did great... Its not a huge deal since its some russian classical music and everyone in russia is to busy doing drugs and listening to techno under their new dictatorious government.
mackisawesome's Avatar
mackisawesome at 10/27/2007 09:54
man they gotta check their sources
deiga-the-semivaliant's Avatar
deiga-the-semivaliant at 10/27/2007 11:00
DrScience123:

To take that even further, I've heard gamers indignantly exclaim: "WHAT THE HELL THEY COPIED MARIO" upon hearing "Mars, The Bringer of War".


Yeah, we're definitely an uncultured lot.
JamesSorensen's Avatar
JamesSorensen at 10/27/2007 11:50
wow one similar hook.. but ya crazy, but no case to go after anyone
cousinike's Avatar
cousinike at 10/27/2007 12:20
I'm just commenting on the fact that you made a Boondocks refrence in your story... but changed it up a little.
Raymod's Avatar
Raymod at 10/27/2007 12:34
Ok I'll go with one of Qalamari's points that the MGS composer could have subconsciously referenced it, i've noticed myself doing it when i make up my shite tunes on my pc and i also notice alot of similar sounding songs on the radio at work, my colleague and friend always points them out to me unfortunately i can't think of any examples at this point in time :(
Zac Bentz's Avatar
Zac Bentz at 10/27/2007 12:37
It's stolen. No room for doubt.
Mustin's Avatar
Mustin at 10/27/2007 13:00
Banj, there are 12 notes in a scale.

Still, this isn't good enough, despite what Zac Bentz says. Sure, it's similar, but it's not stealing. There are direct lines from the Star Wars score (first one) that are taken straight from Gustav Holst's "The Planets" suite. That shit is balls.

This is just gay.
spacecadetjoe's Avatar
spacecadetjoe at 10/27/2007 13:23
is it just me or was this already on the front page like weeks ago? maybe i saw it in the clogs i dont know but the fact remains...old news is old
Wedge's Avatar
Wedge at 10/27/2007 14:01
Someone posted this FOREVER ago on the cblogs, that's where you saw it. Also Gregson just rearranged the original MGS theme for MGS2.
mispelt's Avatar
mispelt at 10/27/2007 14:49
@ Mustin:

Most people tend to think of the diatonic scale: ABCDEFG. There's hardly ever a reason to bring the chromatic scale into things. If were going to count all the sharps and flats, there's nothing to stop us from moving on to the double-sharps and -flats, and then we're here all day.


And as far as the accusation goes, I don't think any real composer would knowingly do anything like that. As Qualamari mentioned, a moment like this would be the death of a career. It's more than likely some Jungian collective unconscious thing.

Still creepy though.
mispelt's Avatar
mispelt at 10/27/2007 14:53
@ Mustin:

Most people tend to think of the diatonic scale: ABCDEFG. There's hardly ever a reason to bring the chromatic scale into things. If were going to count all the sharps and flats, there's nothing to stop us from moving on to the double-sharps and -flats, and then we're here all day.


And as far as the accusation goes, I don't think any real composer would knowingly do anything like that. As Qualamari mentioned, a moment like this would be the death of a career. It's more than likely some Jungian collective unconscious thing.

Still creepy though.
Genki-JAM's Avatar
Genki-JAM at 10/27/2007 15:02
The similarity is CRAZY, but it still differs enough to not sound like a knockoff. It COULD be possible that this song was INSPIRATION for the MGS theme, but I don't think it would be right to go as far as saying that the theme was plagiarism...
Im OK's Avatar
Im OK at 10/27/2007 16:14
This isn't quite Timbaland vs Tempest or Vanilla Ice vs Queen and David Bowie or whatever, but parts of the Russian composition are indeed very similar to the MGS theme. Not exactly the same though, so I don't know if this could be considered straight up plagiarism or not. I'm going with the "subconscious influence" theory.

Also, as has already been pointed out, Harry Gregson-Williams did NOT compose the original Metal Gear Solid theme. He just did the arrangements for the MGS2 and MGS3 versions, and apparently also the MGS4 version as well.
Cutie Honey's Avatar
Cutie Honey at 10/27/2007 16:53
That's nifty! Well, time to get some Georgy Sviridov tunes.
DGX Goggles's Avatar
DGX Goggles at 10/27/2007 18:50
Seems like Kojima's been hanging around Hong Kong too much. Sounds similar, but I like the Russian one more.
RWarrior1CO's Avatar
RWarrior1CO at 10/27/2007 19:40
The similarity is mild at best.
Fading Star's Avatar
Fading Star at 10/27/2007 20:35
There is a similarity....

CONSPIRACY!
Necros's Avatar
Necros at 10/28/2007 01:26
Yay for matlocks.
cbre88x's Avatar
cbre88x at 10/28/2007 01:45
As a composer and student of music. I have to put my two cents in.

While it is very possible that HGW could have easily plagiarized Svridov..it is much easier to consider that he is referencing this theme in his own way. It happens from time to tine..whether it is on purpose or subconsciously. This also happens in literature and they usually call this allusion, but anyways..

The theme is very similar, but I didn't like what Svridov did at all with it..instead of using a brilliant theme to his advantage, he basically completely drops it and moves on like it was a one night stand. HGW embellishes on the theme and develops around it. I mean come on people..there is a reason why you've never heard of this guy (or at least I never have and I typically like Russian composers).

I could probably tell you more, but I don't have a conductor's score to either of these. To summarize--->

Svridov=Epic Fail
HGW=Epic Win
cbre88x's Avatar
cbre88x at 10/28/2007 01:51
Holy shit..I actually just read some of the comments..I didn't know Iwase wrote the original theme..

Me=epic fail
bluki's Avatar
bluki at 10/28/2007 01:51
awesome... there is reasonable voices in the internets!!!
Wexx's Avatar
Wexx at 11/24/2008 16:37
No, I don't think so. Move along.
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