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Metacritic founder agrees game ratings are imbalanced photo

Marc Doyle, co-founder of Metacritic, was given an opportunity to actively defend his site's methodology and  its role in the industry on the latest A Jumps B Shoots Podcast and he thinks he's got the answer to our review score woes.

How do we achieve review score balance? "Review all the sh*t." Doyle states that reviewers need to be more aware of the fact that every score serves a purpose. We all know the differences between an eight game and a nine, but who can really differentiate between a three and a four? Critics need to review everything (not just AAA titles) so that we can, as Doyle puts it, "get that precision on the low end to reflect the precision on the high end."

In order to truly understand how scores should work, we need to review every game and build a better concept of "average."

Head over to A Jumps B Shoots and give the full audio a listen for more of Doyle's insight on game scores, weighted metascores, and how exactly publications are picked for and dropped from Metacritic. It's really a great interview and a welcomed look at their side of these ongoing issues.

Episode 12 – Critically Speaking [A Jumps B Shoots]








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33 comments | showing # 1 to 33
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llort het's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/11/2011 19:40
llort het
I kind of like the five scale score myself. 3 feels like average and five is amazing
RAMburger's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/11/2011 19:41
RAMburger
Every review site that qualifies for Metacritic should be following the same review scale. It should be an industry-wide mandate and as objective as possible, ie no "personal" feelings should be found anywhere to reflect the final score of a game. Get rid of all this .1-.9 bs too. 1/2 points are even crossing the line of practicality.
OneRed's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/11/2011 19:41
OneRed
Write reviews for games no one will play? But... no one will read those reviews because no one wants to play those games because they've never heard about those games because no one writes reviews on them because no one will read the reviews because... I... but pageviews... Earth Defense Force...

I'm scared...
rathowreck's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/11/2011 19:45
rathowreck
@RAMburger http://www.destructoid.com/100-objective-review-final-fantasy-xiii-179178.phtml

:/
flintmech's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/11/2011 19:58
flintmech
My problem with Metacritic is the fact that they interpret other point scales into their own 100-point scale. So for example a 3/5 which in middle-of-the-road/average on a 5-point scale becomes a 50-60/100 which is much worse in that scale. Why does this matter? Because the people who rely on Metacritic rather than Metacritic's sources get an inaccurate indicator of what the reviewers felt.

Aside from that, I agree with Jim's stance on MC having a valuable role and not really being the "bad guy". In the end it does come down to the people who misuse Metacritic, I suppose.
DoctorRheet's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/11/2011 20:01
DoctorRheet
Review all the shit.
MowDownJoe's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/11/2011 20:08
MowDownJoe
And I still say review aggregates should work in a manner similar to Rotten Tomatoes. Don't go by the score. Read the review, decide if it's positive or negative. Display percentage of positive reviews. If Metacritic operated like Rotten Tomatoes, there wouldn't be any controversy.
GoofierBrute's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/11/2011 20:09
GoofierBrute
Who cares? If you really like something, than a numbered score from a complete stranger shouldn't really affect you, regardless of what they say unless; you secretly agree with that person.

Or to put it in another way: haters going to hate.
Neroisonfire's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/11/2011 20:17
Neroisonfire
Back in my day review scores meant something. We had EGM, Gamefan, and Gamepro. Back when reviewers were respectable and classy.

Back then we lived by reviews and were never wronged by them. It's sad to see them become so worthless with the general attitude that "numbers don't matter" anymore.
Thane Vickers's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/11/2011 20:20
Thane Vickers
@llort het

Agreed so hard.
Karavision's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/11/2011 20:24
Karavision
I swear, half of the fucking comments on this site are people saying that that they don't care about something. Go play some video games or get laid or something. No one care that you don't care.

And for the record, no one is worrying about you caring when it comes to Metacritic. It is about publishers using the scores to deem game failures and in some cases, avoid paying bonuses.
JohnGrisham's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/11/2011 20:26
JohnGrisham
this overdependence on metacritic is depressing. tldr-need a number
runtheplacered's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/11/2011 20:31
runtheplacered
@GoofierBrute ,

"Who cares? If you really like something, than a numbered score from a complete stranger shouldn't really affect you, regardless of what they say unless; you secretly agree with that person. "

Not sure if serious... but just in case you are, I'd think it should be obvious that reviews are mainly for people that haven't bought a specific title, yet, and want to know how it fares.
Nobunaga Oda's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/11/2011 20:35
Nobunaga Oda
I like the 1-10 and the 1-5 scale. Half points are silly though in my opinion.

Destructoid keeps up the good Work.
RockWallofMight359's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/11/2011 20:36
RockWallofMight359
Am I really the only one who thinks that it should just be "Buy, rent, pass"?
Pseudo's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/11/2011 20:40
Pseudo
I personally hate the 5 scale and almost everyone who uses it. I personally rate every game I play on a 10 scale, and I'll tell you right now that there's a huge difference between a 8 and a 9, as well as a monumental gap between a 9 and a 10. Out of the hundreds of games I've completed, I've given 7 10s total. This is totally my opinion, but I believe that a 100/100 should be something truly sublime, not just "amazing but with a few flaws," which is what sites like Giantbomb seem to use as their criteria for a 5/5. I'd like to see Jeff Gertsmann justify giving a 10/10 to MK vs. DC on the Gamespot scale. But then again, I think reviews should not only give the reader purchasing advice, but inspire discussion on the game itself. I seem to be in the minority opinion on that subject.
Mazz0928's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/11/2011 20:55
Mazz0928
Word of mouth has taken over. Also the ability to check out a game yourself on the Internet before a purchase.
BoomingEchoes's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/11/2011 20:57
BoomingEchoes
I don't really believe its his sites fault, and I like his idea but I want to say that it feels like his idea would only work in an ideal world.

I've learned a lot about just the ins and outs of reviewing from reading this site (mostly Jim's words on it but also Nick, Jonathan and Dale have weighed in on it from time to time too I believe) and I have to say, even without reading those things, its just common sense that reviewers can't do this.

Theres far to many games coming out from far to many companies and far too little time in the day, let alone our lives, to do achieve his goals no matter how noble they may be. And most review sites don't have the budgets to hire another 3 to 8 people to even try to attempt this.

What will stop this idea in its tracks, if it were to happen, is if reviewers gave bad reviews for games, whether they're good or not, AAA or not, because they have to rush their reviews.. Or even worse to try to continue to skew the metacritic ratings in one direction or another, even for the shittiest games out there.

I mean, we have to remember one of the primary problems is that the PR firms attacking reviewers for low scores whether the games deserved them or not.. this doesn't feel like it'll change that.
asojax's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/11/2011 20:57
asojax
@rockwallofmight359

Buy, rent, pass would work if everyone thought the same way the problem with that is really the same problem that reviews have now days, they are based on opinion so while someone might say hey you should buy this game and you do, you might end up playing 20 minutes and be like umm this was a waste of money.

I think all reviews should be required to point out all the pros and cons in a manner that they don't through there opinion into it, because i know i would be more likely to avoid a title with gamebreaking glitches then a title with a few glitches.

example fallout: New Vegas couldn't beat the game because the guys that were suppose to go with me into the final fight ended up glitching in one spot and stopped moving all together, had i known that would happen i would have avoided the game.
GoofierBrute's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/11/2011 21:07
GoofierBrute
@runtheplacered

I'm not disagreeing with you on that, as there are quite a few games that I was on the fence on that I eventually bought based on good reviews (Bioshock, Batman Arkham Aslyum, etc.). However, what I am saying is that a lot of people take reviews of games that they like way too seriously, and if someone says something even remotely negative of their favorite game, they'll get pissed off and throw a hissy fit. Remember how many people got upset at Jim when he gave the Witcher 2 a 6.0, or gave Final Fantasy 13 a 4.0? Hell remember when former Gamespot editor Jeff Gerstmann gave Twilight Princess an 8.8? That last one wasn't even a negative score, and was talking negatively about the presentation (which a lot of critics brought up in their reviews), and he STILL felt nerd rage from every Zelda fan on the Internet.

Don't get me wrong, I still think reviews are vital for people who may be on the fence when it comes to a game, but to get upset about how one person feels about a game because it's too low or too high has always been very silly to me. That's the point I was trying to make.
Cynical Gamer's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/11/2011 21:16
Cynical Gamer
I wish Destructoid would go back to their old rating system of Buy It! Rent It! or Forget It!
Chris Carter's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/11/2011 21:26
Chris Carter
@oda
Dtoid does do great work, but they use the .5 on occasion.

Personally, I have no problem with it.
OneRed's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/11/2011 21:28
OneRed
Honestly, I feel really bad for anyone who uses Metacritic review scores as an end all for purchasing choices. Games are reviewed more as products than as entertainment/art, so most reviews offer up nothing more than fucking ridiculous talking points about how the game functions, with opinion as an afterthought. I can't tell you how many fun games I would have missed out on because the prevailing thought was that they were bad.

Jim Sterling doesn't have this issue, clearly, and more reviews should look like how he operates. Honest to goodness opinion based on how they feel about the game, not a page of technical whogivesafuck and a general pandering to what is and is not seen as popular by the masses. Who cares what is and is not considered good and bad game elements, tell me how you feel while/after playing a game. Most reviews read like theyre written by review machines, and thats certainly now how I fucking play them.

And you know what? Final Fantasy 13 was technically sound and I too would have given it a shit score. Why? Because I didn't enjoy it despite how well it was made. Objectivity is for reviewing a car, or a TV. Its value in reviewing an experience is nothing compared to the value of honest subjectivity.
Malik's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/11/2011 22:59
Malik
Or you know weigh the scores. Too much credence shouldn't be given to a couple of extremely high or extremely low scores.
NeuroChems's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/11/2011 23:52
NeuroChems
Doyle states that reviewers need to be more aware of the fact that every score serves a purpose.
Almost as if he thinks reviewers write their reviews to serve the good of Metacritic, with their own outlets (that pay them) just getting in the way. Aren't you supposed to just be a service?
NMTL's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/12/2011 01:50
NMTL
How about a tier system:

If the reviewer finds a game to be as good as Half-Life, for example, he/she places it in the same tier as Half-Life (whatever that tier is called). Now, if the reviewer can with certainty say that he/she instead holds the reviewed game in higher or lower regard, then the game gets placed in a tier above or below Half-Life. That way, games that the reviewer can't separate between based on overall quality end up in the same tier. Most tiers would probably contain multiple games, but there might also be tiers containing only one (maybe the reviewer has an all-time favorite game that he/she thinks can't be touched by any other game, for example).
You'd then have a link to a list of all the games (sorted into tiers) that particular reviewer has reviewed. Better yet, it would include a bunch of games that the reviewer hasn't nessessarily reviewed but has still played and has a clear opinion of. You could then read every reviewer's list to find out which of the reviewers you resemble the most, opinionwise.
Taking inspiration from RockWallofMight359, the list might also indicate where the line is drawn for games that are buy, rent or passworthy (or alternatively simply worth the reviewer's time).

A made-up list:

TIER 1 (buy)
Half-Life 2

TIER 2 (buy)
Mother 3
Resident Evil 4
Metal Gear Solid 3

TIER 3 (rent)
Deus Ex
etc.


It wouldn't really work for Metacritic, but...

No scores, just tiers.
Mr Zurkon's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/12/2011 07:22
Mr Zurkon
Why haven't anyone mentioned this: http://www.split-screen.net/features/metacritique-ratings-the-inner-circle
Paul Franzen's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/12/2011 07:26
Paul Franzen
The problem with BUY/RENT/FORGET is that renting isn't a thing anymore. If anything, maybe it should be BUY/DEMO/FORGET.
Liam Fisher's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/12/2011 07:58
Liam Fisher
@Malik Actually, they do weigh scores. Apparently they have a secret metric for deciding how much each reviewer's scores are worth in the Metascore.

http://www.metacritic.com/about-metascores
OmegaWarrior's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/12/2011 09:19
OmegaWarrior
I have a better idea. IGNORE ALL OF IT!! Does anyone care what movie critics think? does anyone care what music critics think? does anyone care what TV critics think? Why care what game critics think? The only people who care what ANY reviewer thinks are people who already have an opinion or people who worked on the project and just want the validation. Do you guys actually trust IGN? or G4? or 1up? or Gamespot? or Anyone?

Reviewers are just some random jagovvs spouting their own opinion and there's no guarantee that their taste matches yours, and I've seen so many of them directly contradict themselves. I once saw a reviewer say "on the downside, this game contains no voice acting at all" and in the very next review, they said "Jeez, who thought it was a good idea to have video game characters talk?"

Rent the game, borrow it from a friend, watch trailers and gameplay footage from real people, and make up your own damn mind!
Malik's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/12/2011 09:35
Malik
@liam

O cool thank you kind sir.
Liam Fisher's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/12/2011 17:08
Liam Fisher
@Omega Trailers and gameplay footage don't always tell the whole story, often games play much different than they look online. Every game feels different once you have it under your thumbs. Reviews are just one more resource for gamers to tap in to. I agree, there is too much of a dependence, but it's another resource for consumers.
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