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MassDebate: Sequelitis

4:00 PM on 12.20.2011   |   Sean Daisy

MassDebate: Sequelitis photo

Welcome to MassDebate! We take a controversial topic, form a proposition, and set two contenders the challenge of stating their case in favor of and in opposition to the proposition. After which, users may vote to decide which contender they support. Rules for voting are at the bottom of the blog, but it is recommended that you read the contenders' cases before you cast your vote. 

The proposition: "Sequelitis" is excessive in the videogame industry.




 Aurain argues in favor of the proposition: 

Sequelitis is excessive in the video game industry. There is no reason to doubt this. I’m not even going to present a debate; a debate gives the suggestion that I could be wrong. I need not debate for one simple reason, boiled down into three slightly less simple words: 

Sonic the Hedgehog. 

Yeah, I’m pretty old in Internet years; a ripe old 23, almost twice the age of its vast majority of 12-year-old users. Born in 1988, I was put in a prime position in gaming: I was a SNES and Sega Mega Drive (Sega Genesis to my American buddies) kid. One of my very first gaming memories was playing Streets of Rage on the Mega Drive and loving it. Streets of Rage 2 was even better. Streets of Rage 3 was pretty crappy in comparison, so they called it a day. 

One of my other earliest memories was playing Sonic the Hedgehog and, as you probably know, the series initially followed a similar pattern. Sonic the Hedgehog was bad-ass. You were a blue hedgehog who didn’t give a crap and thought: “Hell yeah, look at these rings. I’ll have these!” The music was cool and you gotta go fast: Faster than a rainbow being censored at a late night bar. 

Sonic the Hedgehog 2 was even better; the music was cooler and you gotta go even faster! There were some bad-ass levels like Wing Fortress and this time round Sonic had a friend, A SINGLE FRIEND, so you could play co-operatively with your mates. That was pretty neat. Well done Sega. 

In 1994 they brought out another Sonic game, Sonic 3. Yeah, Sonic 3 wasn’t as good. They added more friends, like Knuckles the Echidna. Seriously, what’s an Echidna? That’s alright though, I guess; it’s not like we have a love triangle. DEVIANTART, SONIC/TAILS/KNUCKLES IS NOT A LOVE TRIANGLE. SERIOUSLY. 

However, it turned out Sonic 3 was a half-finished game. If you wanted the second half of the story you had to buy Sonic and Knuckles to go with it. Yeah, back in 1994 they were warming up that needless expansion pack button like a boss. A move Activision would later master with the Modern Warfare series, but to continue this story would require further discussion and I have a word limit.


Sega kind of made Sonic and Knuckles worth the money; it let you play as Knuckles (who is NOT Sonic’s lover) in Sonic 2 or Sonic 3. However, since Sonic and Knuckles was still not as good as Sonic 2, Sega decided to cancel the Sonic series there. The blue blur was consigned to the history books, and all was well with the world. 





I wish. It turned out that Sega had designs on shilling their mascot more than a DOTA2 key in the trading forums: In 1993 they released Sonic CD to sell their worthless CD add-on. (Challenge: If you’re under the age of 18, describe the Mega CD without looking online) They had Knuckles’ Chaotix cobbled together for their equally worthless Sega 32X. (Challenge: Look online for the 32X and try to resist laughing)  Knuckles’ Chaotix flopped because it was a Sonic game without Sonic in it. 

Sonic was always a 2D platforming (hold right on the D-pad) game. However, in 1996 Sega decided in their infinite wisdom: “Let’s make this 3D! That’ll make it better!” They were wrong. Not quite as wrong as when they refused to localise Valkyria Chronicles III, but close. Sonic 3D was so terrible that it took 3 years to reach Japan; probably because people kept hijacking the cargo planes to save them from the terror. 

Sega then made Sonic Adventure for the Dreamcast to further emphasise that they could ruin Sonic as much as they wanted, and no-one was going to stop them. Sonic Adventure 2 came out in 2001 and it was so bad that it literally drowned the Dreamcast in shame. Goodbye ShenmueSkies of Arcadia and Soul Calibur. You were actually good. 

Sega brazenly continued to make 3D games, thinking up new and more idiotic friends for Sonic with every title. Then they had their best idea: BEASTIALITY. What’s cooler than Sonic the Hedgehog? How about Sonic the Hedgehog and a human re-enacting the awful forest scene in Final Fantasy X? DeviantART cried tears of joy. Humanity as a whole reached a new low. Sonic had surely reached its lowest ebb. 

However, of all the titles Sonic the Hedgehog (2006) is the crowning jewel in Sonic’s storied history of failure and awful. The last time I saw Sonic (2006) it was a JUNE afternoon. I kicked it so hard it exploded. Its remains were scattered into the afternoon sun. They were never found, but they probably choked a baby swan to death. Thanks for killing baby swans, Sega. 

In closing, Sequelitis isn’t merely excessive; it is a poison on humanity. Sonic is dead and the cause of his death was sequelitis. Sonic Generations is meant to be good, but I won’t fall for that. Sonic deliberately murdered the Dreamcast, cancelled Shenmue 3, denied the export of Valkyria Chronicles III, and encouraged a generation of furries on DeviantART. 

Don’t believe me? When was the last time you saw furry Streets of Rage fan art? 

NO PLEASE <3 





 ZombiePlatypus argues against the proposition: 

Is "sequelitis" excessive in the videogame industry? I say not only no, but NO PLEASE <3. The key word here is excessive, as if it‘s some abnormal, overdone epidemic. Sure, we’ve got a steady stream of sequels arriving on our store shelves, but does that necessarily make it “excessive”? Calling the crop of video game sequels excessive implies that there is something inherently wrong with the gaming industry producing these follow-ups. 

I’ll start with a basic fact: Sequels keep getting made because they sell. They’re obviously something that a large portion of the gaming public wants. We may not all need a new Madden or Call of Duty every year, but their existence is welcomed by those that do want to jump back into that new but still familiar game experience annually. I realize that saying “people buy them” does nothing to prove they’re not overdone, but it does show the market is there, or there wouldn’t be so many sequels. 

A common argument against sequels is that people want more original titles. However there are still new original games being made, from Ghost Trick to Shadows of the Damned. On top of that, many of our most sequelized games started as original properties this console generation: Mass EffectUncharted and Gears of War may all be trilogies at this point, but none of those series existed until a few years ago. Assassins Creed is barely four years old, and is one of the most sequelized and spun-off franchises going. Original games aren’t going away, it’s just that those that do well are being added to the growing list of supposedly “excessive” sequels. It’s not unreasonable for people to want more of a good thing. 





Though honestly I don’t know why Uncharted was made in the first place. I have been wracking my brain and I still cannot figure it out: why did uncharted have to be made? Don't get me wrong, I understand why it was made: it's scientifically formulated to be profitable. What I don't understand is why some designer came up with the idea and thought to himself "yeah, we need to make this concept into a reality." It doesn't tell a unique story, it isn't set in a unique world, and it doesn't have a single unique gameplay mechanic (it doesn't even have a gimmick.) It's just 100% all generic all the time, and it worries me that somebody, possibly even a group of sombodies, was actually paid to come up with the idea. What's even more worrying is that they've now gone three games without introducing a single new concept. I mean, you'd think by now at least one team member would have thought of SOMETHING new and interesting to switch things up a bit. Are naughty dog retarded or something?*

Now I’m going to move on to what I consider the most important reason sequels aren’t “excessive”: Just because a game is a sequel, it doesn’t automatically default to being stagnant. Sequels can evolve and build off of their predecessors while keeping us in a world we love to visit. Look at the changes in gameplay and structure from Mass Effect to Mass Effect 2; while one could argue that not all of the changes were for the better, it cannot be argued that revamping the combat, improving the level design, and streamlining the RPG aspects led to a very different experience compared to the original. It looks like the upcoming third chapter will alter and refine the gameplay yet again, while keeping us engrossed with familiar characters and continuing plot points. 

Some series use their sequels to add or build upon their established multiplayer components, such as the inclusion of co-op in Portal 2. Then you have the sequels that go a step further and reinvent themselves almost entirely. I'm looking at you, Zelda II and Resident Evil 4

Hell, on the flip side of the coin, a number of “original” new IPs are no more original than anything else on the market, sequel or otherwise. Being a sequel in and of itself doesn’t mean there’s a lack of imagination or creativity that went into making the game; often enough they can stand on their own two feet as good games in their own right, or even better games than the originals. 

Think of all the top tier games we have that are sequels. Many folks’ game of the year has been Skyrim, the fifth title in the Elder Scrolls series. Metal Gear Solid 4 is touted as one of the best games of this generation, not bad for a sequel to a series that is twenty-four years old and counting. My personal favorite 2D platformer is the critically acclaimed Super Mario Bros 3. We are talking about the sequel in the series being one of the best in the genre. 

In closing, I’d like to take on the Bear King’s hatred of Sonic games post Sonic 2. Uh, helloooo, Knuckles is the greatest character in the series? He is a monotreme after all. And how great were the Chao Gardens in the later games? Raising those little fellas provided more hours of enjoyment than O-Ring’s beloved first two Sonic games combined. It has to be true, because I just posted it on the internet. 

Also, “Sonic directly … cancelled Shenmue 3, denied the export of Valkyria Chronicles III”. Yeah, I hate how those excessive sequels always stop us from getting more sequels. Again I say NO PLEASE <3 

(*Many thanks to g-off for his invaluable contribution regarding Uncharted.) 





Many thanks to Aurain and ZombiePlatypus for their contributions. 

The vote total will be accumulated and the results given on Sun 25th December. Ensure you get your vote in by Sat 24th December.








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100 comments | showing # 1 to 50
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next 50 comments

Aurain's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/20/2011 16:01
Aurain
NO PLEASE <3
ZombiePlatypus's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/20/2011 16:03
ZombiePlatypus
NO PLEASE <3
kefkaesque's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/20/2011 16:03
kefkaesque
Way to steal the word sequelitis from egoraptor.
Diverse's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/20/2011 16:04
Diverse
ZP and Aurain are both homo-ass bitch niggas stay triflin
Clown Baby's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/20/2011 16:04
Clown Baby
tldr
Diverse's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/20/2011 16:05
Diverse
YO DAT KEFKAESQUE NIGGA FO REAL??? HAHAHAHAAHA, EGORAPTOR DIDNT MAKE THAT WORD UP BITCH TITS
Clown Baby's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/20/2011 16:06
Clown Baby
MASS DEBATE: YOU'S A BITCH NIGGA
- kefkaesque (who?)
- Diverse

JULES WINS!
Usedtabe's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/20/2011 16:07
Usedtabe
I voted forums.
Konnery's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/20/2011 16:11
Konnery
@kefka

Way to actually give a crap
DomitorInvictus's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/20/2011 16:16
DomitorInvictus
Sequels are pretty cool if they are actually good sequels of good games.
CaptainHowdy's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/20/2011 16:17
CaptainHowdy
Zombies are cool.
BrowneyeWinkin's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/20/2011 16:21
BrowneyeWinkin
Very nice

Sean, yer a god amongst men
Chongomaster's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/20/2011 16:22
Chongomaster
Anyone else think Aurain's argument was basically moaning about the Sonic series mixed in with a few jokes? You know it's bad when the point of the text doesn't come in until the 3rd to last sentence.
pastacat's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/20/2011 16:22
pastacat
I don't think that gamers truly hate the concept of sequels. Bad sequels created solely to make money are of course derided, but there are plenty of franchises that we still want more games for- Darkstalkers, Deus Ex, Grand Theft Auto, etc.
djnealb's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/20/2011 16:24
djnealb
Oh God, I haven't seen the "why did uncharted have to be made?" meme if years. I would have voted for ZP on that alone, but I also agreed with his argument more.
AidsAcrssAmrica's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/20/2011 16:24
AidsAcrssAmrica
I don't mind sequels like the Final Fantasy series since every game is pretty independent from the others. CoD series, where it's the same game over and over again can DIAF.
UltorOscariot's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/20/2011 16:27
UltorOscariot
Sequels are just a mixed bag, so painting it it with a broad brush it's silly and deconstructionist(intellectually lazy). Done with care and time, sequels can be great if the material feels fresh enough again, suc as perhaps having one or two games per console cycle. Sequels usually get into these days is not enough time and resources, or enough time for a full idea for a new game to gestate. Assassin's Creed Revelations is running into this territory, and Bioware did with Dragon Age 2. Those games did not get enough time in the oven, and really bespeak the publisher's desire to quickly cash in on a recent success, for the bare minimum of investment of time.
Chris Carter's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/20/2011 16:29
Chris Carter
DIVERSE SIGHTING
failtuna's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/20/2011 16:30
failtuna
I think that sequels can be good, if done properly. Take Mario for example, without thinking about the educational games, can anyone name a Mario sequel that was less than enjoyable?
capbros's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/20/2011 16:30
capbros
Have to admit feeling a bit sequelitis'd out this year. Lots of great sequels to great games, but missing the buzz of something totally new.
quantumriian's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/20/2011 16:32
quantumriian
Interesting topic when you turn it over in your head.

The increased disposition towards sequels is what worries me, as ZombiePlatypus says, many new ips that were introduced in just this generation are now trilogies or will be before the generation is over.

I often look at my games collection and marvel about how many are either the first or only entry in a series. Out of 75 games over 5 systems, 20 are first or only entries, and of those 20, only 2 have not spawned sequels (and its dc universe- an mmo; the other is Madworld for the Wii).

I think the amount of sequels can be seen as detrimental and derivative but I think in most cases it point to the fact that people enjoy certain universes, characters and playstyles and the nature of games allows you to revisit those things in many iterations through sequels moreso than other media.

Making a new entry in a movie or book series requires a conscious continuation of the story and development on the part of the creators. With the inherently transmediated nature of games, however, much of the creativity and engagement in a world or story is left up to the consumer and thus leaves room for sequels (and lots of them) in ways that other media perhaps don't.

In addition, subscription models, dlc, and increased focus on online play and continued profit mean that developers can extend developments in story arcs and gameplay mechanics beyond the release of a game and into sequels or expansions.

The danger I think is, as ZombiePlatypus points out, stagnation between releases. If we are getting the same game 3 or more times, what's the point? At the same time, if the game changes such as.to become unrecognizable from the first game(s), what's the point in making it part of the series? The answer of course is that we don't become attached to jumping or shooting or turn based combat as much as we become attached to the universe which the game allows us to participate in, and the individualized, unique experience of participationg in it.
tekbunny's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/20/2011 16:32
tekbunny
I like how I am always set to give an opinion based off the header alone, but end up seeing two arguments that do a very good job of explaining themselves almost to the point of indecision.

Well done gentlemen.
Aurain's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/20/2011 16:36
Aurain
@Chongo

(That was the point!)
Captain of the Zanarkand Abes's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/20/2011 16:45
Captain of the Zanarkand Abes
I think in terms of sequals the last few years (this year especially) were really damn good. If it werent for sequals we wouldnt get great games like donkey kong country returns, donkey kong country returns, and who couldn't forget donkey kong country returns.
quantumriian's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/20/2011 16:47
quantumriian
I agree that Aurain argument was basically railing against the Sonic series. Which is weird cause I expected someone to take on Final Fantasy. Although FF is a good.example of.why the "sequelitis" example is so weird: they are in the "final fantasy" "series" and yet few games are actually direct sequels of one another and most have very little if anything to do with each other in terms of story and, increasingly, even gameplay mechanics.

For this we might point to repitition of tropes: magic/nature vs. technology, racism, boy saves girl, hero saves world, etc.

It's also interesting to me that no one brings up the effect of nostalgia on our "want" of sequels. What we really want is a replication of the experiencing of a game for the first (or hundredth) time which is falsely promised by a game beating the sane name, characters, or resemblance.

I think the "rise" of retro and/or indie games like Terraria, Minecraft, and VVVVVV is due in part to their ability to accurately recreate the experiences we seat h for in nostalgia: exploration, creation, adversity, and community.
ZombiePlatypus's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/20/2011 16:47
ZombiePlatypus
@DJ Puppy-
That's pretty much my favorite bit of idiocy to ever grace our Forums. I love that meme.
OriginalGman's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/20/2011 16:50
OriginalGman
If we say Valkyria Chronicles III enough times, maybe they will bring it over! VALKYRIA CHRONICLES III VALKYRIA CHRONICLES III VALKYRIA CHRONICLES III VALKYRIA CHRONICLES III VALKYRIA CHRONICLES III

No dice? Then I guess I'm stuck buying 50 copies of Kingdom Hearts 3D so that they make a sequel to The World Ends With You.
Janklogs's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/20/2011 16:50
Janklogs
ZombiePlatypus wins because goddamnit SA2 was good and anyone who argues to the contrary doesn't deserve to express their opinion.
RavePossum's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/20/2011 16:50
RavePossum
I don't know what you're thinking. Sonic Adventure and Sonic Adventure 2 were both great games. Honestly, I think the 3D Sonic games really aren't that bad. The day levels of Sonic Unleashed were quite fun, and while the night ones could have been a lot better, they weren't all that bad. Everyone just jumps on the 3D Sonic hating bandwagon. It's just an over reaction and over generalization, and if you actually played the games with an open mind maybe you would realize they're not really bad games.
doomknight66's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/20/2011 16:53
doomknight66
I really don't agree with either of these points, but ZP gets my vote for repping ma boi knuckles

dr spaceman's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/20/2011 16:54
dr spaceman
Terrible argument from Aurain. The proposition wasn't whether Sonic sequels are excessive. You didn't even try to relate it to the industry at large. All I saw was lame ass attempts at being funny in place of what could have been an actual argument.

ZP at least understood the point, and made some good arguments.Although a whole paragraph dedicated to ripping on Uncharted was pathetic. Makes me wonder if you're an idiot or just stuck up. Or was it a joke? I can't tell.
Chongomaster's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/20/2011 16:54
Chongomaster
@Aurain
Oh! Well then...
Alfalfa's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/20/2011 16:55
Alfalfa
"Sonic Adventure 2 came out in 2001 and it was so bad that it literally drowned the Dreamcast in shame."

I immediately stopped caring about Aurain's argument once I read this.
dr spaceman's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/20/2011 16:57
dr spaceman
Meme... Even worse :P
Beccy Caine's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/20/2011 16:57
Beccy Caine
"Faster than a rainbow being censored at a late night bar."

Brilliant.

As for the argument, I honestly can't decide. Deciding on a series-by-series basis sits better with me.

Also, saying 'Mass Debate' out loud on a packed train yields interesting results.
ZombiePlatypus's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/20/2011 17:06
ZombiePlatypus
"Although a whole paragraph dedicated to ripping on Uncharted was pathetic. Makes me wonder if you're an idiot or just stuck up. Or was it a joke? I can't tell."

"Meme... Even worse :P"

I Was A Cactus's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/20/2011 17:07
I Was A Cactus
Why does FFXII appear twice in the header image?
Captain of the Zanarkand Abes's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/20/2011 17:18
Captain of the Zanarkand Abes
AND ONE MORE THING...
I think looking back at sonic's games, the only ones I call atrocious are Shadow (spinoff), 06 (what else) and Black Knight (cashcow).
DLZ's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/20/2011 17:18
DLZ
Sonic 3 and Knuckles sucked? The fuck you say?

Someone hold my earrings.
Soulblazer's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/20/2011 17:24
Soulblazer
If I had to choose, I would definitively go in favour because I prefer new original experiences over more of the same and or more better games. Why? because no matter how much it improves the experience, it may be technically better but it still wont have the same impact as the first time you experienced that game franchise with a defining entry.

Skyward sword may be the best zelda game yet, but it still wont match my feelings for a link to the past, the first truly perfect zelda experience. With that said I still buy plenty of sequels just because if you like a game, why not get its next entry?

All in all I think there has to be a balance in the force...or in this case between sequels and original titles but nobody can deny that balance is getting to the sequel territory as each year we see fewer original experiences but as long as they exist we should support them if we want our gaming industry to thrive instead of growing stale.
exp0d's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/20/2011 17:27
exp0d
What's wrong with developers giving us more of what we want? Why shouldn't you happily buy any sequel to a game if you like it. There will always be developers making original IP with original gameplay. They do the sequels because it is what they want to do. You wouldn't like people telling you how to run your life right?
I don't even know how something so trivial in a hobby I love so much is the cause for a MassDebate. The real offenders here are all the crybabys here that are just pissing on everyone else's coffee.
The Silent Protagonist's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/20/2011 17:32
The Silent Protagonist
Gonna go with ZombiePlatypus on this one.

I don't need an original game for originality's sake. It would be nice if every developer just stopped for one year and made new IPs, but if that happened, how many would really be that different from other games they do.

Particularly in the case of first person shooters, but others as well.

At the end of the day, I still see plenty of originals happen each year. This year it was Radiant Historia, Catherine, Sword and Sworcery and Shadows of the Damned for me. I bought them all brand new - did the people that squawk on and on about originals buy Shadows of the Damned?

Apparently not, since I'm only one of the 24,000 between PS3 and 360 that bought it. Will they turn out for Lollipop Chainsaw. I somehow doubt it. At least Catherine broke 500k, which is highly unusual for an Atlus game.

I'll buy originals and I'll buy sequels. Complain about sequels if you want, but I won't.
Tarvu's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/20/2011 17:48
Tarvu
Super gay.
Henriquegds's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/20/2011 18:01
Henriquegds
i'm sorry, I can't really choose to vote because i disagree/agree with both.

Aurain bitches about Sonic and this is his whole point, I disagree because i think Sonic Adventure is really good, and people look too much over the fact of the additional useless characters in them, yeah it's a bad thing but if you look over it you can go and enjoy a sonic game.

And Sonic Generations is freaking awesome and he's too butthurt with DeviantArt( but that i agree with him :p).

I think that Platypus gets the vote for me because he made the best point, but in the same time his rant about Uncharted is nonsensical and I think that the game doesn't need to be innovative every time, as long that tells a good story, has playable mechanics, and the characters are well written/played we don't need to put new stuff that can ruin the end of the trilogy.

Of course that innovation is a good thing, but only if it's used in the right time and the right way. So I can't really give my vote to Aurain (because of the Sonic bitching) and I can't give the vote to Platypus because of the idiotic remark about Uncharted.

Also, I don't give a shit about Uncharted, I don't even have a PS3 but I know that the game is well written and don't need new things, otherwise this game wouldn't have a perfect score on Destructoid.

Basically, innovation is a good thing but only if it's used in the right time and in the right way.

(If the Uncharted part was a joke, so it wasn't the best one)
quantumriian's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/20/2011 18:05
quantumriian
Lollipops chainsaw looks like joke. I hope no one buys that game.

Bad example.
Mr Andy Dixon's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/20/2011 18:07
Mr Andy Dixon
My favorite part was when Aurain lamented the loss of Shenmue 3 and Valkyria Chronicles III.

YES THANK YOU </3
Jinxed Havoc's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/20/2011 18:07
Jinxed Havoc
Debate? SERIOUS BUSINESS
Onyx Leo's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/20/2011 18:10
Onyx Leo
I like how FFXI seems to be replaced by Japanese FFXII in the header. o-o
Conor Elsea's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/20/2011 18:14
Conor Elsea
@ZP I knew I read that Uncharted stuff somewhere before. I had forgotten about that.

@Aurain Man, you successfully done trolled the Sonic fans. +1 butthurt for you, hahaha.
Darren Nakamura's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/20/2011 18:28
Darren Nakamura
ZombiePlatypus clearly wins this one. Sorry Aurain. Before he even made the point that you want Valkyria Chronicles III, I noticed it as well. Yet you're arguing that sequelitis is excessive?
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