surf dtoid with 
Rising (10+)
People you follow
This is just sad, and really hilarious for those of us on the outside. Just another group of self-entitled who wouldn't know a damn thing about well-written stories and endings if they bit them on the ass. After reading their proposed alternative, it basically reads as if they're saying: "Oh, let's forget about the lore the series has built up for the sake of living happily with our love interest!" I was always under the impression that Mass Effect was a gritty sci-fi epic, not a dating simulator. Apparently I was wrong. Bioware better not give into this shit.
Someone needs to fuck their fans in their ass with those big semi-floppy/rigid Saints Row 3 dildos. Might dislodge the shit so they can stop resorting to spewing it out of their mouths.
I haven't made it to the ending yet but I really hate the "fan" complaints with this game. The argument that your choices don't matter is pretty pointless, they do. I guess people were somehow expecting that their choices would change the entire story arc? Playing through the game I constantly felt like my choices made an impact on the world around me, I didn't expect them to alter the entire fucking plot though so I guess my standards are pretty low.
I can agree with the argument that some corners were cut for this game, but that's it. The complaints in regards to the story leave me with the impression that these people just made up their own ideas of what Bioware would do with the games.
I can agree with the argument that some corners were cut for this game, but that's it. The complaints in regards to the story leave me with the impression that these people just made up their own ideas of what Bioware would do with the games.
@Chris Carter
"In Dragon Age: Origins, you get an incredibly detailed ending. You basically find out what happened to every single person you meet, regardless of whether or not they're a nobody NPC. There's like 100 different possible combinations."
Dude. No. Two lines of text per character is not a detailed ending. I mean maybe a story like DA:O needed little snippets like "So-and-so married his childhood sweetheart and bought a farm near Kirkwall and raised turnips and lived happily ever after" and it's fine in that context, but Mass Effect is not that kind of story and certain does not call for that kind of throw-away text epilogue.
I believe it was very intentional, and very effective, that the ending to ME3 left the player with a lot of questions. It was AN ending, not THE ending. Things are not back to normal. The galaxy will not just carry on its merry way. Billions have died, and billions more will probably die in the aftermath (consider that the Turians and Quarians can't eat Human food, but they're stuck in the Sol system without a Mass Relay, for example). It's a very bleak, ugly end, as it should be. A couple of lines of text saying Garrus and Tali got married and had lots of creepy Turquarian babies would not only be inappropriate, it'd be detrimental.
No, there's not any closure at the end of ME3. There's none to be had in the story, and there shouldn't be.
"In Dragon Age: Origins, you get an incredibly detailed ending. You basically find out what happened to every single person you meet, regardless of whether or not they're a nobody NPC. There's like 100 different possible combinations."
Dude. No. Two lines of text per character is not a detailed ending. I mean maybe a story like DA:O needed little snippets like "So-and-so married his childhood sweetheart and bought a farm near Kirkwall and raised turnips and lived happily ever after" and it's fine in that context, but Mass Effect is not that kind of story and certain does not call for that kind of throw-away text epilogue.
I believe it was very intentional, and very effective, that the ending to ME3 left the player with a lot of questions. It was AN ending, not THE ending. Things are not back to normal. The galaxy will not just carry on its merry way. Billions have died, and billions more will probably die in the aftermath (consider that the Turians and Quarians can't eat Human food, but they're stuck in the Sol system without a Mass Relay, for example). It's a very bleak, ugly end, as it should be. A couple of lines of text saying Garrus and Tali got married and had lots of creepy Turquarian babies would not only be inappropriate, it'd be detrimental.
No, there's not any closure at the end of ME3. There's none to be had in the story, and there shouldn't be.
(Spoilers):Funnily enough the ending that guy in the poll wanted is what I tried to do when presented with the choices. I turned directly around and walked away only to be stopped by an invisible wall. But I think it's insane to change the ending because the fans demand it. Fallout 3 did I guess, but that was mainly to just let people keep exploring the world and doing side quests. Jim's right though, the reason people are so upset is a testament to how great Mass Effect has been. I don't think people would be upset with a bleak ending. I think they are upset mainly because in a game about choices where you carry your character through 3 games over 5 years the narrator comes in says nothing you did mattered, your choices mean nothing. Then you are offered a choices of 3 cutscenes which are different only in the color of an effect.
(Spoilers):Funnily enough the ending that guy in the poll wanted is what I tried to do when presented with the choices. I turned directly around and walked away only to be stopped by an invisible wall. But I think it's insane to change the ending because the fans demand it. Fallout 3 did I guess, but that was mainly to just let people keep exploring the world and doing side quests. Jim's right though, the reason people are so upset is a testament to how great Mass Effect has been. I don't think people would be upset with a bleak ending. I think they are upset mainly because in a game about choices where you carry your character through 3 games over 5 years the narrator comes in says nothing you did mattered, your choices mean nothing. Then you are offered a choices of 3 cutscenes which are different only in the color of an effect.
@Jim, while I can agree that demanding a rewrite of a story to suit his or hers own wants is kinda arrogant, I think the problem is way bigger then that they felt cheated out of a happy ending.
As of now, you can find dozens of problems with the ending. Plot arcs that are suddenly dropped and never brought up. Total disregard to players choices that they have made. Alot of the the ending explanations is immediatly contradicted by events done in the very same game.
I am one of those who hated the endings, so I guess I am biased, but then again, the ending was horrible.
As of now, you can find dozens of problems with the ending. Plot arcs that are suddenly dropped and never brought up. Total disregard to players choices that they have made. Alot of the the ending explanations is immediatly contradicted by events done in the very same game.
I am one of those who hated the endings, so I guess I am biased, but then again, the ending was horrible.
I haven't made it to the ending yet but I really hate the "fan" complaints with this game. The argument that your choices don't matter is pretty pointless, they do. I guess people were somehow expecting that their choices would change the entire story arc? Playing through the game I constantly felt like my choices made an impact on the world around me, I didn't expect them to alter the entire fucking plot though so I guess my standards are pretty low.
I can agree with the argument that some corners were cut for this game, but that's it. The complaints in regards to the story leave me with the impression that these people just made up their own ideas of what Bioware would do with the games.
I can agree with the argument that some corners were cut for this game, but that's it. The complaints in regards to the story leave me with the impression that these people just made up their own ideas of what Bioware would do with the games.
I found it to be a really difficult choice to make at the end, which is in my opinion a good thing for a game to have. If there is the obvious "happy ending" then it really defeats a lot of the journey, I think.
"I think they are upset mainly because in a game about choices where you carry your character through 3 games over 5 years the narrator comes in says nothing you did mattered, your choices mean nothing"
I wanna briefly address this argument, because I've seen it a few times and it's complete shit.
Over the course of three Mass Effect games, you've made several THOUSAND choices. Some small, some goddamn enormous. Each one of those choices DID have consequences, though. Not all of them made it all the way to the end of ME3, but plenty of them did. A dozen or so major characters can be alive or dead at the end depending on what you've done. The Krogans may or may not be a doomed race. Tali may either be in exile or an Admiral. The Rachni may or may not be extinct (I think, I'm not entirely clear on that one). Synthetic life may or may not exist anymore.
...and so on and so forth. Are all of those consequences directly reflected in the ending cutscenes? Of COURSE not! What did you expect, dozens (if not hundreds) of cutscenes reflecting every possible combination of major decisions and outcomes the player could have made over the course of three games? That's obviously ridiculous. The cutscenes are what they are, and they're primarily a result of that final choice you make, but the state of the galaxy, and of the people we've come to care about within it, are known to the player when the credits roll, whether or not it's explicitly shown in the final cutscene. Those choices still had massive repercussions that followed us all the way to the end credits of ME3.
So no, the ending absolutely did not invalidate the choices we made. It directly reflected them, exactly as we expected.
I wanna briefly address this argument, because I've seen it a few times and it's complete shit.
Over the course of three Mass Effect games, you've made several THOUSAND choices. Some small, some goddamn enormous. Each one of those choices DID have consequences, though. Not all of them made it all the way to the end of ME3, but plenty of them did. A dozen or so major characters can be alive or dead at the end depending on what you've done. The Krogans may or may not be a doomed race. Tali may either be in exile or an Admiral. The Rachni may or may not be extinct (I think, I'm not entirely clear on that one). Synthetic life may or may not exist anymore.
...and so on and so forth. Are all of those consequences directly reflected in the ending cutscenes? Of COURSE not! What did you expect, dozens (if not hundreds) of cutscenes reflecting every possible combination of major decisions and outcomes the player could have made over the course of three games? That's obviously ridiculous. The cutscenes are what they are, and they're primarily a result of that final choice you make, but the state of the galaxy, and of the people we've come to care about within it, are known to the player when the credits roll, whether or not it's explicitly shown in the final cutscene. Those choices still had massive repercussions that followed us all the way to the end credits of ME3.
So no, the ending absolutely did not invalidate the choices we made. It directly reflected them, exactly as we expected.
These whiny, entitled cunts are focusing way more on the ending than the journey, and that's saddening. Even without having played through the series myself yet, I've consistently gotten the impression that the intent was for players to enjoy crafting their own journey through the games' story, which they could influence to some extent, but in the end, things were still in the hands of the writers. There's only so much you can cram into a story-driven game, after all.
And, in a way, that limit to any given Shepard's influence helps make the game that much more realistic and resonant. Real people can only do so much to lead their lives and influence the world around them, and whether the parallel is intentional or not, it strikes a chord.
If you can't accept the conclusion handed down by the writers whose salary you've been paying to come to that conclusion, just write some fanfiction and shut up. Next thing you know, there'll be a petition for God/nature/whatever to rewrite that bit at the end where, to quote Jim Sterling, "we all piss and shit ourselves."
And, in a way, that limit to any given Shepard's influence helps make the game that much more realistic and resonant. Real people can only do so much to lead their lives and influence the world around them, and whether the parallel is intentional or not, it strikes a chord.
If you can't accept the conclusion handed down by the writers whose salary you've been paying to come to that conclusion, just write some fanfiction and shut up. Next thing you know, there'll be a petition for God/nature/whatever to rewrite that bit at the end where, to quote Jim Sterling, "we all piss and shit ourselves."
I don't care if the ending was bleak i just wanted a goddamn epilogue not some random scene where SPOILERS joker magically picks up all my crew on earth somehow and then starts racing for a mass relay only to be stuck on some plant world.
I think it's really hard to actually happening, but I wouldn't dare to call a fan petition arrogant when a couple million people join a single petition to Bioware. Now, that's another level entirely.
It did invalidate them because no matter what you do, you have the same exact half-assed ending. People calling people complaining about this "entitled" need to get off their high horse. It was a terrible ending, people expect more. It doesn't have to be super fucking happy fun time, but it should make you feel good,even if it's in a tragic way.
It shouldn't make you feel like a pile of shit for getting so invested in these games. Which, apparently I should be sorry for getting so invested because some douche says "it's just a game" or "I don't know good writing(fuck you elitist prick). You know what? When it can affect people so deeply it's not "just a game" it's an artistic medium that makes people feel like any other, even if you don't personally like it.
It shouldn't make you feel like a pile of shit for getting so invested in these games. Which, apparently I should be sorry for getting so invested because some douche says "it's just a game" or "I don't know good writing(fuck you elitist prick). You know what? When it can affect people so deeply it's not "just a game" it's an artistic medium that makes people feel like any other, even if you don't personally like it.
"It did invalidate them because no matter what you do, you have the same exact half-assed ending."
So then, you DID expect hundreds of different ending cutscenes. That's not even entitled. That's just fucking retarded.
So then, you DID expect hundreds of different ending cutscenes. That's not even entitled. That's just fucking retarded.
Wait people are only now surprised that Shepard's choices don't matter in the slightest?
Shepard's choices never mattered. Thats a large part of why the games are shit.
Shepard's choices never mattered. Thats a large part of why the games are shit.
Dear Bioware...
Never change a plot point because fans demand it, look at the clusterfuck called "Umbrella Chronicles"
Also, please try making a game that isn't just a baulder's gate mod for once in your career.
Never change a plot point because fans demand it, look at the clusterfuck called "Umbrella Chronicles"
Also, please try making a game that isn't just a baulder's gate mod for once in your career.
The game was supposed to be more emotional, and damn it Bioware you made me cry not once but twice. Losing some of my former squadmates/friends sucked, but one in particular hurt a lot to watch and I actually lost it again watching the ending.
Part of that was though that I was expecting more of a star wars type ending, we blow up the bad guys, fly home, hug our loved ones (Tali :D), and live happy. Not everything was going to end happily, but I was hoping for something nice for Shepard.
One the other side of the coin, I usually approve of stories that aren't simply cliche and that real life does not always have a happy ending. I do give them some respect for doing what they did, I'm not upset like the fanboys, but I really was hoping for something slightly happier, maybe involving Tali and Shep together. :)
It's a great emotional ride and the amount of inside jokes that I got to laugh at was awesome. There are a few things I think Bioware could have handled better, like Tali's pic/face, but I'm not going to rage over it. The over all package is a great game, because nothing is perfect. Not even Shepard.
Part of that was though that I was expecting more of a star wars type ending, we blow up the bad guys, fly home, hug our loved ones (Tali :D), and live happy. Not everything was going to end happily, but I was hoping for something nice for Shepard.
One the other side of the coin, I usually approve of stories that aren't simply cliche and that real life does not always have a happy ending. I do give them some respect for doing what they did, I'm not upset like the fanboys, but I really was hoping for something slightly happier, maybe involving Tali and Shep together. :)
It's a great emotional ride and the amount of inside jokes that I got to laugh at was awesome. There are a few things I think Bioware could have handled better, like Tali's pic/face, but I'm not going to rage over it. The over all package is a great game, because nothing is perfect. Not even Shepard.
I really don't like the stance people are taking about people criticizing a product they bought, I'll agree it's a bit silly to demand an ending change especially when I'm sure bioware has more plans to nickel and dime their fans, but you gotta stick up for your position.
Whether it be the day one dlc, stock photo characters, or problems with exporting saves it's clear to me that the game needed extra polish.
The ones calling others self entiltled should have fun being leashed and anally raped by their corporate overlords.The game industry is starting to have bigger problems with inherent laziness and money schemes that consumers should rant about. The story of this game has been criticized all through the development process of 3. It sounds to me they ignored all criticism.
Whether it be the day one dlc, stock photo characters, or problems with exporting saves it's clear to me that the game needed extra polish.
The ones calling others self entiltled should have fun being leashed and anally raped by their corporate overlords.The game industry is starting to have bigger problems with inherent laziness and money schemes that consumers should rant about. The story of this game has been criticized all through the development process of 3. It sounds to me they ignored all criticism.
Let's all keep in mind that this would just be another choice of ending, and wouldn't invalidate anyone's experience with the game.
I'm happy with what's been presented, but if Bioware thinks this is enough of a valid idea to go forward with this, I wouldn't be opposed to them adding another option in a game that's been all about choice from the very beginning.
I'm happy with what's been presented, but if Bioware thinks this is enough of a valid idea to go forward with this, I wouldn't be opposed to them adding another option in a game that's been all about choice from the very beginning.
Gamers are really this adverse to a tragic ending? The same gamers that revel in violence and domination? Wtf?
The biggest problem with the ending of ME3 was how FORCED it was and how much it left open in my opinion. There is a saying among writers in even the most basic creative writing classes that "the story should write itself." Meaning that the characters and themes present in a story all lead to an endpoint that make sense. It may not be what you had planned as the author, but the story needs to go where its meant to or else the author is exerting to much force upon it. Mass Effect is DEFINED by Shepard beating the odds. The counsel told him he couldn't stop the geth, that Saren wasn't evil, Harbignger told him he couldn't defeat the collectors etc. etc. In all of these cases through the power of humanity/life (as cheesy as that sounds) Shepard defies the odds and triumphs. He proves that universe can unite peacefully, and life, both synthetic and organic can defy the odds. Think about the end of Arrival when Shepard speaks to Harbinger or when he talks to Liara about what he's fighting for at the end of LOSB. The ending of ME3 (without giving spoilers) throws all of this out the window, and whats worse is that Shepard goes completely out of character and just accepts it. Then to top it all off you add that stupid readiness system to force people to play multiplayer to get better endings and the fact that there is ABSOLUTELY no closure to the game. The ending just doesn't fit with the rest of the series, or the rest of the game, the story was not leading to this point. It feels unnatural. I'm not asking for a "happy fairy Disney rainbow" ending, I wan't something that fits with the story presented.
@Tristix I don't see how you got hundreds from that. We know Bioware can do epilogues, vignettes or at least two possible endings. I don't see how that's so fucking unrealistic or retarded(thanks for that).
Fallout: New Vegas had a little quip on every faction in the game. Sure it wasn't much, but I'd like to know how each race is getting along or that I actually did some good in the galaxy and it wasn't all for naught. You spend the whole time getting everyone together only so they can be completely torn apart. What was the point of gathering all those forces if no matter what I did ,the outcome was the same? Did it matter I brought the quarian and the geth together? Did it matter I cured the Genophage and was Eve able to keep the peace? I don't know because EA and Bioware couldn't be bothered to give closure due to probably wanting to sell more DLC or another "trilogy" to string us through.
Fallout: New Vegas had a little quip on every faction in the game. Sure it wasn't much, but I'd like to know how each race is getting along or that I actually did some good in the galaxy and it wasn't all for naught. You spend the whole time getting everyone together only so they can be completely torn apart. What was the point of gathering all those forces if no matter what I did ,the outcome was the same? Did it matter I brought the quarian and the geth together? Did it matter I cured the Genophage and was Eve able to keep the peace? I don't know because EA and Bioware couldn't be bothered to give closure due to probably wanting to sell more DLC or another "trilogy" to string us through.
I'm not in favour of them having to rewrite their story; this is Bioware's intellectual work of art, their ideas and expression and they deserve to have it taken as it is. Yeah, it's a product aswell so there's that whole keeping the customer happy aspect, but still... freedom to do as they want.
However, the ending was TERRIBLE.
You spend the whole game as Shepard with the choice to talk down all this inevitability. When the Reaper tells you to observe his truth that synthetic life will overpower organics as is the case with the Geth and all that, you can talk him down. There's the fact that the Geth didn't so much want to overpower their creators and destroy them as defend themselves.
When the Prothean VI says it's impossible to stop the Reapers, you can tell him to shut up and that it's possible.
You can spend the game proving this all wrong by creating peace between the Geth and their all time 'enemy', peace between synthetics and organics.
Then suddenly, at the end this God Child appears out of nowhere. You spend 3 games not understanding the Reapers because "you can't comprehend" and then this ghost kid comes about in the last 10 minutes and boils it all down to pure simplicity. Not just simplicity, but a generic motivation that you'll find in most science fiction literature.
In the last 10 minutes, it's like all these pieces and revelations are desperatley trying to be put together to form a conclusion and you're given the sudden ultimatums.
And it's just silly. I mean you got this omni-potent thing that has predicted all this stuff and playing God for the sole purpose of stopping intelligent beings from creating something that will wipe them out and their answer is to pretty much destroy the universe because there's no way around it.
Except you can actually solve that problem pretty effectively. In fact, it's the driving motivation in this game; getting every single life form pretty much to stop these Reaper things, including synthetic life. I mean, the fucking robots even ditch the Reapers to help out humans. YAY.
But in the end, it doesn't really mean anything. And your character doesn't really seem to give much of a shit. You'd think this guy (despite near death) who's been pretty much the paradigm of all things good (pretty much) would have more to argue. Instead of pandering to a rhetoric conversation with God kid to excuse the upcoming and mediocre conclusion.
You'd also think that the Reaper's wanting to harvest all this life would go about it in a better way than just fucking shit up. These old machines with near limitless knowledge and power wanting to harvest all life thought it would be a good idea to suddenly pop up, offer no explanation why - because it's beyond comprehension, yet they seem to do a pretty good job explaning it in 5 minutes in the end - start killing everything and didn't anticipate that a fight would start up?
As someone said, billions upon billions die in the end. That's a really great way to harvest, right?
Waiting every 50,000 years to turn up and destroy everything instead of ya know, just popping up every 10 or so to say "yo dudes, don't get too ahead of yourself on creating robots and shit, otherwise we're going to kill you all. Cheers!" is awesome.
Of course, ANYONE can shoot holes in ANY plot. No matter how Bioware went about this, I'd still be able to fault their choices. There will never be a perfect way to go about this or the Reapers or anything like that. It's been 3 games in the making as someone in another post said, it was always going to lead up to dissapointment I'm sure.
But really? Just leaving this all to the last 10 minutes with magical god kid? Fuck that, very cheap way to end the game. And it seems to be a trend, look at Deus Ex: Human Revelation.
I'm all for the sad endings. This was a war, there wasn't really going to be a happy ending. Gears of War tried to hit home about all the loss and bad stuff war brings about and it fucking sucked BALLS. Mass Effect left me with a bit of a hollow feeling, a bit empty and sad. And that's what war is, I guess.
Except most wars between humans, you can argue that there will be no victory either way. Mass Effect just presented you with these faceless nobodies who were fucking shit up for no reason. A win would have been a win either way.
But yes, if there was no chance of winning, even if you spent the whole game trying to avoid that you have to accept it's just a sad ending either way. The story represents real life in that way; sometimes, no matter how hard you try, how hard you fight you won't win. Sometimes it will all be for nothing. Sometimes, there is no happy ending. You've got to accept that.
But MAN. GOD KID was just a cheap plot device and the final choices were lame as hell too.
I do want an epligoue and to find out what happened to all my precious characters, but if that's not possible, that's what I have to live with. Maybe I do have to end it and live with this sense of loss and the unknown, considering civilisation just died out, more or less.
BUT GOD KID REVELATIONS?
I'm 100% of the opinion that part of the game completely fucking sucked. If it just ended with Anderson and Shepard looking out at Earth and bleeding out and dying, then all the bad stuff following, I would have been happy/sad. Fine. But Deus Ex Machina kid showing up to quickly tie loose ends and boast his omnipotence and truth? POOR.
Then again, if you look at it that way, that kind of fits too. It makes sense that this massive force that has been bending the universe to its will won't make compromises for anyone or anything and just stick to its guns. It's called having power. It's called being stubborn. Whatever it is, it has some concreteness to it.
And it has some true human element to it.
That can be argued for anything, also though. And I wasn't a big fan of it.
And I'm pretty certain this is going to leave everyone getting a boner for the next bits of DLC to shut us up :3
However, the ending was TERRIBLE.
You spend the whole game as Shepard with the choice to talk down all this inevitability. When the Reaper tells you to observe his truth that synthetic life will overpower organics as is the case with the Geth and all that, you can talk him down. There's the fact that the Geth didn't so much want to overpower their creators and destroy them as defend themselves.
When the Prothean VI says it's impossible to stop the Reapers, you can tell him to shut up and that it's possible.
You can spend the game proving this all wrong by creating peace between the Geth and their all time 'enemy', peace between synthetics and organics.
Then suddenly, at the end this God Child appears out of nowhere. You spend 3 games not understanding the Reapers because "you can't comprehend" and then this ghost kid comes about in the last 10 minutes and boils it all down to pure simplicity. Not just simplicity, but a generic motivation that you'll find in most science fiction literature.
In the last 10 minutes, it's like all these pieces and revelations are desperatley trying to be put together to form a conclusion and you're given the sudden ultimatums.
And it's just silly. I mean you got this omni-potent thing that has predicted all this stuff and playing God for the sole purpose of stopping intelligent beings from creating something that will wipe them out and their answer is to pretty much destroy the universe because there's no way around it.
Except you can actually solve that problem pretty effectively. In fact, it's the driving motivation in this game; getting every single life form pretty much to stop these Reaper things, including synthetic life. I mean, the fucking robots even ditch the Reapers to help out humans. YAY.
But in the end, it doesn't really mean anything. And your character doesn't really seem to give much of a shit. You'd think this guy (despite near death) who's been pretty much the paradigm of all things good (pretty much) would have more to argue. Instead of pandering to a rhetoric conversation with God kid to excuse the upcoming and mediocre conclusion.
You'd also think that the Reaper's wanting to harvest all this life would go about it in a better way than just fucking shit up. These old machines with near limitless knowledge and power wanting to harvest all life thought it would be a good idea to suddenly pop up, offer no explanation why - because it's beyond comprehension, yet they seem to do a pretty good job explaning it in 5 minutes in the end - start killing everything and didn't anticipate that a fight would start up?
As someone said, billions upon billions die in the end. That's a really great way to harvest, right?
Waiting every 50,000 years to turn up and destroy everything instead of ya know, just popping up every 10 or so to say "yo dudes, don't get too ahead of yourself on creating robots and shit, otherwise we're going to kill you all. Cheers!" is awesome.
Of course, ANYONE can shoot holes in ANY plot. No matter how Bioware went about this, I'd still be able to fault their choices. There will never be a perfect way to go about this or the Reapers or anything like that. It's been 3 games in the making as someone in another post said, it was always going to lead up to dissapointment I'm sure.
But really? Just leaving this all to the last 10 minutes with magical god kid? Fuck that, very cheap way to end the game. And it seems to be a trend, look at Deus Ex: Human Revelation.
I'm all for the sad endings. This was a war, there wasn't really going to be a happy ending. Gears of War tried to hit home about all the loss and bad stuff war brings about and it fucking sucked BALLS. Mass Effect left me with a bit of a hollow feeling, a bit empty and sad. And that's what war is, I guess.
Except most wars between humans, you can argue that there will be no victory either way. Mass Effect just presented you with these faceless nobodies who were fucking shit up for no reason. A win would have been a win either way.
But yes, if there was no chance of winning, even if you spent the whole game trying to avoid that you have to accept it's just a sad ending either way. The story represents real life in that way; sometimes, no matter how hard you try, how hard you fight you won't win. Sometimes it will all be for nothing. Sometimes, there is no happy ending. You've got to accept that.
But MAN. GOD KID was just a cheap plot device and the final choices were lame as hell too.
I do want an epligoue and to find out what happened to all my precious characters, but if that's not possible, that's what I have to live with. Maybe I do have to end it and live with this sense of loss and the unknown, considering civilisation just died out, more or less.
BUT GOD KID REVELATIONS?
I'm 100% of the opinion that part of the game completely fucking sucked. If it just ended with Anderson and Shepard looking out at Earth and bleeding out and dying, then all the bad stuff following, I would have been happy/sad. Fine. But Deus Ex Machina kid showing up to quickly tie loose ends and boast his omnipotence and truth? POOR.
Then again, if you look at it that way, that kind of fits too. It makes sense that this massive force that has been bending the universe to its will won't make compromises for anyone or anything and just stick to its guns. It's called having power. It's called being stubborn. Whatever it is, it has some concreteness to it.
And it has some true human element to it.
That can be argued for anything, also though. And I wasn't a big fan of it.
And I'm pretty certain this is going to leave everyone getting a boner for the next bits of DLC to shut us up :3
Oooooooh, you want the same thing Chris wanted back several comments ago. I already addressed that bit of nonsense too if you care to scroll up a bit.
@Corey Taylor
"...Mass Effect is DEFINED by Shepard beating the odd...
The ending of ME3 (without giving spoilers) throws all of this out the window, and whats worse is that Shepard goes completely out of character and just accepts it."
Dude you just described Tengen Toppa Gurren-Lagann.
"...Mass Effect is DEFINED by Shepard beating the odd...
The ending of ME3 (without giving spoilers) throws all of this out the window, and whats worse is that Shepard goes completely out of character and just accepts it."
Dude you just described Tengen Toppa Gurren-Lagann.
I don't really care if BioWare changes the endings or not... but they were pretty goddamn bad. They contradict the entire series' gameplay philosophy, Shepard's character and motivation, the events of Arrival, and even something that happened not 30 minutes earlier in exact same game. They feature an utterly horrific plot device and choices practically lifted verbatim from Deus Ex. And the stuff that happens right before the credits comes completely out of left field and just makes no sense at all. Not to mention that insulting epilogue.
I don't want a happy ending. I want an ending that doesn't fall so far below the standards of the rest of the game that it feels like it was written by an entirely different team. I can deal with what they've given me, but for once I think the horrible BSN community is actually correct.
I don't want a happy ending. I want an ending that doesn't fall so far below the standards of the rest of the game that it feels like it was written by an entirely different team. I can deal with what they've given me, but for once I think the horrible BSN community is actually correct.
Were the endings horrible, incohesive with the build up form the rest of the trilogy and rushed? Yes. Should they get changed? No. The last thing people need is for EA to capitalize on that with a 10$ DLC with a new ending.
The endings are fucking terrible, but I'm not going to rally for a change or anything.
But again, the endings are FUCKING terrible
But again, the endings are FUCKING terrible
Having played all three games, hating the ending and following the outrage on the Bioware forums, I think only some people's main point of frustration with the endings are that they are too bleak for their tastes. That might be part of it, but speaking for myself, my biggest gripe is that the options given were lazy, contrived and pretty much nullified all the choices I made throughout the series. Instead of determining our fate by the choices we made since ME1, the entire fate of the galaxy is simply decided in the last 5 minutes of the final game by choosing 1 of 3 paths. Because that's supposed to be compelling, apparently. I felt pretty shortchanged and deflated by this. I had no sense of accomplishment or resolution, especially considering the nature of the options given, which I wont go into here. And these are only a few of my MANY problems with the ending.
As for whether I feel it should be changed, well... I certainly hope they do something about it, but I don't think they have an obligation to. I'm pretty exhausted by this whole situation, and I'm tired of hearing the words "entitled" or "retard" or whatever else being blanket-labeled on people because they didn't like the ending. I, like many, many others, hated the last 5-10 minutes but LOVED the entire game up to that point. Now, I honestly don't even care that much to replay it, as I have many times over for both ME1 and ME2.
As for whether I feel it should be changed, well... I certainly hope they do something about it, but I don't think they have an obligation to. I'm pretty exhausted by this whole situation, and I'm tired of hearing the words "entitled" or "retard" or whatever else being blanket-labeled on people because they didn't like the ending. I, like many, many others, hated the last 5-10 minutes but LOVED the entire game up to that point. Now, I honestly don't even care that much to replay it, as I have many times over for both ME1 and ME2.
@Tristrix
(Spoilers):I guess I was saying that your choices don't matter in the end is because whatever choices you do make, galactic civilization is destroyed no matter what. So it doesn't really matter if the genophage was cured or the Quarians got their home planet back. Also it's entirely possible that through your choices in the game you've already proven the Catalyst's central thesis to be wrong, that's why I tried walking away from it in the first place. That's what I took away after immediately seeing the ending.
I've been reading some analyses of the ending though where people are guessing that maybe all the relays blowing up didn't annihilate every inhabited system or leave people stranded with no way back. It'd be great if that was elaborated on in a post-mortem or something by the writers.
Another problem is that the denouement is 5 minutes before the credits. Most games have this problem but most games don't have a story worth giving a shit about. The only one I can think of off the top of my head that doesn't is Red Dead Redemption. People are left with a feeling of, "Wait, what? That's it?"
All that being said, changing the ending of the story via DLC is a horrible idea and one I doubt Bioware would give a moment of thought. I hope I'm not wrong about that.
(Spoilers):I guess I was saying that your choices don't matter in the end is because whatever choices you do make, galactic civilization is destroyed no matter what. So it doesn't really matter if the genophage was cured or the Quarians got their home planet back. Also it's entirely possible that through your choices in the game you've already proven the Catalyst's central thesis to be wrong, that's why I tried walking away from it in the first place. That's what I took away after immediately seeing the ending.
I've been reading some analyses of the ending though where people are guessing that maybe all the relays blowing up didn't annihilate every inhabited system or leave people stranded with no way back. It'd be great if that was elaborated on in a post-mortem or something by the writers.
Another problem is that the denouement is 5 minutes before the credits. Most games have this problem but most games don't have a story worth giving a shit about. The only one I can think of off the top of my head that doesn't is Red Dead Redemption. People are left with a feeling of, "Wait, what? That's it?"
All that being said, changing the ending of the story via DLC is a horrible idea and one I doubt Bioware would give a moment of thought. I hope I'm not wrong about that.
@Trist
It's not nonsense. I'm not saying "tell us what happened to the Normandy on that random planet and ruin the mystery" or anything like that. I'm saying - "tell us what happened with the Krogans. The Solarians. Anything". That "dad and son" epilogue they gave at the end (with a lifted graphic to boot) was extremely cliche. They can still do the same "chaos/cyclical nature of life" theme they ending up doing - just give fans some semblance of familiarity.
"A couple of lines of text saying Garrus and Tali got married and had lots of creepy Turquarian babies would not only be inappropriate, it'd be detrimental."
That's a strawman, and assuming the ending text would be horribly written like a fanfic.
It can be done in an effective manner that would still please fans. What you may be missing is that Mass Effect is a 5 year old series, and people have been invested in it for hundreds of hours. I don't expect anything, nor did I dislike the ending (I've said many times it was fine), but it's extremely reasonable that people would be upset over this, and people have a right to think it wasn't satisfactory.
I also don't see how Mass Effect should be put on a pedestal over Dragon Age: Origins (which you inferred). They are the exact same story. Ancient Evil used to reign/destroy - then it didn't for a while - now it's back, and you need to make the ultimate sacrifice to stop it.
If you're thinking Mass Effect is "more grimdark", I'd actually argue Origins is more grimdark, given that you see the effect of people's suffering first-hand, rather than getting to a planet after Reapers have already blown it up.
It's not nonsense. I'm not saying "tell us what happened to the Normandy on that random planet and ruin the mystery" or anything like that. I'm saying - "tell us what happened with the Krogans. The Solarians. Anything". That "dad and son" epilogue they gave at the end (with a lifted graphic to boot) was extremely cliche. They can still do the same "chaos/cyclical nature of life" theme they ending up doing - just give fans some semblance of familiarity.
"A couple of lines of text saying Garrus and Tali got married and had lots of creepy Turquarian babies would not only be inappropriate, it'd be detrimental."
That's a strawman, and assuming the ending text would be horribly written like a fanfic.
It can be done in an effective manner that would still please fans. What you may be missing is that Mass Effect is a 5 year old series, and people have been invested in it for hundreds of hours. I don't expect anything, nor did I dislike the ending (I've said many times it was fine), but it's extremely reasonable that people would be upset over this, and people have a right to think it wasn't satisfactory.
I also don't see how Mass Effect should be put on a pedestal over Dragon Age: Origins (which you inferred). They are the exact same story. Ancient Evil used to reign/destroy - then it didn't for a while - now it's back, and you need to make the ultimate sacrifice to stop it.
If you're thinking Mass Effect is "more grimdark", I'd actually argue Origins is more grimdark, given that you see the effect of people's suffering first-hand, rather than getting to a planet after Reapers have already blown it up.
This was my letter to bioware.
How could you do this? How could you possibly do this? I loved this game.
I loved this series.
It was an amazing series, beyond any book I've read(And I read a lot), better story than any game i've played. I emphasized with Shepard, and felt so attached to every crew member...
But not only that, the series let me imagine that there was something else out there. Hope that there would be something out there like this, that we could get into space, and that we wouldn't be alone in this universe.
I don't believe that there is, really. If there is we'll never see it. I really liked thinking about it though.
Hell, I could imagine that humanity could progress to the point that we could get along with other species!...That our race wouldn't be infinitely limited to racism and war and making others miserable.
I mean ****, even if I'll never live to see anything amazing, this game helped me escape, I could imagine a world like the one I'll never see.
I loved the characters, the races, ESPECIALLY the mass relays and the Citadel. That despite incredible differences, thinking that humanity had the potential for something like this.
It was literally the best science fiction I've ever seen or read. I felt as attached to the characters as my own friends.
God, it's pathetic. But I felt more for this series than probably a good many other people did.
And the endings... Felt like an utter betrayal. All I wanted, I just would have liked one happy ending. Or ambiguous ending. I tried so hard. First playthrough I was at 6700 readiness and 100% from multiplayer. I just wanted one single thing to cheer me up from the horrible things I have going on right now.
And by god, it was the saddest thing I've ever seen. Shepard and Tali/Liara/Garrus/Ashley/Others never see each other again. Tali dies alone, Shepard never sees her again.
None of the other races will ever get the chance to cooperate and strive for something better. The relays are gone, and so is the incredible citadel.
And there's no hope for that to ever happen again. No new races in 50,000 years. No new citadel.
It was sadder than if the reapers had won. I've never felt so awful after playing or reading something I loved so much.
You showed us the fictional apex of the entire universe and then killed it, and salted the earth so it could never rise again.
I just would have liked one ending with Shepard with his friends. One single ending that I could imagine Shep going to Rio with Jacob, having another shooting contest with Garrus, helping Tali build her home on Rannoch.
You didn't have to show any of that... I just would have liked to been able to imagine it after I closed the game, and I drag myself through my boring 9-5 job.
Why did you guys do this? I am incredibly depressed. My choices were supposed to matter, in this game.. /:
How could you do this? How could you possibly do this? I loved this game.
I loved this series.
It was an amazing series, beyond any book I've read(And I read a lot), better story than any game i've played. I emphasized with Shepard, and felt so attached to every crew member...
But not only that, the series let me imagine that there was something else out there. Hope that there would be something out there like this, that we could get into space, and that we wouldn't be alone in this universe.
I don't believe that there is, really. If there is we'll never see it. I really liked thinking about it though.
Hell, I could imagine that humanity could progress to the point that we could get along with other species!...That our race wouldn't be infinitely limited to racism and war and making others miserable.
I mean ****, even if I'll never live to see anything amazing, this game helped me escape, I could imagine a world like the one I'll never see.
I loved the characters, the races, ESPECIALLY the mass relays and the Citadel. That despite incredible differences, thinking that humanity had the potential for something like this.
It was literally the best science fiction I've ever seen or read. I felt as attached to the characters as my own friends.
God, it's pathetic. But I felt more for this series than probably a good many other people did.
And the endings... Felt like an utter betrayal. All I wanted, I just would have liked one happy ending. Or ambiguous ending. I tried so hard. First playthrough I was at 6700 readiness and 100% from multiplayer. I just wanted one single thing to cheer me up from the horrible things I have going on right now.
And by god, it was the saddest thing I've ever seen. Shepard and Tali/Liara/Garrus/Ashley/Others never see each other again. Tali dies alone, Shepard never sees her again.
None of the other races will ever get the chance to cooperate and strive for something better. The relays are gone, and so is the incredible citadel.
And there's no hope for that to ever happen again. No new races in 50,000 years. No new citadel.
It was sadder than if the reapers had won. I've never felt so awful after playing or reading something I loved so much.
You showed us the fictional apex of the entire universe and then killed it, and salted the earth so it could never rise again.
I just would have liked one ending with Shepard with his friends. One single ending that I could imagine Shep going to Rio with Jacob, having another shooting contest with Garrus, helping Tali build her home on Rannoch.
You didn't have to show any of that... I just would have liked to been able to imagine it after I closed the game, and I drag myself through my boring 9-5 job.
Why did you guys do this? I am incredibly depressed. My choices were supposed to matter, in this game.. /:
Nothing wrong with a sad, "everyone sacrifices too much" ending... but the major issue is a lack of proper epilogue.
You could say the ending sequence with your "3 choices" is the epilogue, but it's not. All that happen is 3 identical videos where the outcome of your choice merely changes the color of the "Space Magic". Yay.
So then I waited... and waited... but not even a short paragraph. What they did show, was the Stargazer and child asking about "the shepard", then in the end, Bioware posts a message that says, "Shepard is a legend, now you can buy downloadable content to continue your adventures."
Okay.
You could say the ending sequence with your "3 choices" is the epilogue, but it's not. All that happen is 3 identical videos where the outcome of your choice merely changes the color of the "Space Magic". Yay.
So then I waited... and waited... but not even a short paragraph. What they did show, was the Stargazer and child asking about "the shepard", then in the end, Bioware posts a message that says, "Shepard is a legend, now you can buy downloadable content to continue your adventures."
Okay.
I'm pretty sure games are being controlled at this point, and their endings/stories usurped. Same thing happened to Deus Ex, where the well-written bosses and villains were literally gutted from the game, including the movies. Arriving to the "choices" ending where it felt like some Orwellian organization playing a "gotcha" joke on all gamers.
I felt the same exact way with ME3 endings. It was just... so completely fucking different from everything else. Like someone literally stepped in and said, "Okay, we're doing the endings now, step aside."
I felt the same exact way with ME3 endings. It was just... so completely fucking different from everything else. Like someone literally stepped in and said, "Okay, we're doing the endings now, step aside."
By Tartilus of the Bioware forums:
I think it's important for us to consider that, at some point, a community manager is going to have to explain our thoughts to any number of developers, and accordingly it's important that a succinct list of our concerns with the ending is available. Those concerns are numerous, and here are the ones I'm familiar with so far:
1. The endings are extremely sad. This is a much-maligned criticism by individuals who associate depth with the perceived darkness of the endings, and that may or may not be a fair point. Regardless, it stands as obvious that many people were hoping for an ending which proffered some hope beyond that available in even the 'happiest' of endings.
2. The endings contain plotholes. The escape of the Normandy and the teleportation of her crew (including the formerly deceased) are the most obvious, but the lack of sufficient explanation regarding the Catalyst's efforts and origin also makes many of his/its motivations bizarre and unsatisfying.
3. The endings fail to fit in with the broadest themes of the series. Slightly different from 1, this criticism notes that the story of Commander Shepherd has always been a story of achieving the impossible with the help of a close crew and rigorous preparation. The endings as offered do not incorporate the crew, do not change significantly in response to your preparation, and while perhaps technically constitute doing the impossible, fail to meet even that low bar which is a solution that does not have an inevitable cross-racial holocaust and galactic dark age as its result.
4. The endings lack variety. This criticism can be directed at both the artistic and story aspects of the ending – the results of the ending decision not only vary little (at least, and this is important, on a scale which is important to our experiences in the game), but the resulting cinematics have only minor differences, and the various sub-endings result in changes so small as to be entirely unnoticeable. Consider that some way could've been contrived to make the Synthetic option differ from the Control option in a fashion greater than a change in the color of the 'light' and a different Texture for Joker in the games final seconds.
5. The mechanics of the ending are not appropriate. Without repeating the various criticisms as regards the ending closely mirroring Deus Ex's, the culmination of the story with a game-show-esque approach to saving the world very much fails to be satisfactory, especially when Mass Effect has otherwise been about the integration of choice into the experience
6. The endings lack dependency on the player's choices prior to the last five minutes. This is important, because the entire rest of Mass Effect 3 was about reacting to previous decisions; consider that, provided one is able to fill the 'war asset' bar in a satisfactory manner via some other means, the decisions in the third game serve no purpose to explain, shape, or enhance the endings. This seems contrary to the spirit of the other 95% of the experience.
7. The endings do not make sense given the character of Shepherd. As has been state elsewhere, we are playing some heroic badass who has otherwise talked down to, shrugged off, and inevitably defeated everyone who threatened, cajoled, or otherwise tried to force him to do something he didn't wish to do. In the ending to ME3, this character offers no rigorous questioning, no protests, no counter-arguments, no discussion of any kind save a resigned sort of death-march which could not be more contrary to his character. This is distressing.
8. The endings have implications, perhaps unintended, which seem to ruin the ME Universe. Admittedly, many of these implications could be avoided, but the lack of contrary evidence fosters a suspicion that these matters were either otherwise not considered, or supposed to be generally acceptable. Indeed, they might even be, but only with proper elaboration, of which there is none.
9. The endings fail to provide closure. There is, as a diagram that is floating around illustrates, no falling action. No conclusion. I do not know what happened to my squadmates – I do not, for reasons that may be bug related, even know which of them is alive. I do not know what happens to the universe, or to the people I've saved. I do not know how I'm remembered, or if any of the terrible things mentioned above actually happens. There almost could not possibly have been less information provided regarding the ending of the game, and that is incredibly distressing when the intention was to wrap up a series that had otherwise displayed all the signs of excellency and had a fond place in our hearts.
I think it's important for us to consider that, at some point, a community manager is going to have to explain our thoughts to any number of developers, and accordingly it's important that a succinct list of our concerns with the ending is available. Those concerns are numerous, and here are the ones I'm familiar with so far:
1. The endings are extremely sad. This is a much-maligned criticism by individuals who associate depth with the perceived darkness of the endings, and that may or may not be a fair point. Regardless, it stands as obvious that many people were hoping for an ending which proffered some hope beyond that available in even the 'happiest' of endings.
2. The endings contain plotholes. The escape of the Normandy and the teleportation of her crew (including the formerly deceased) are the most obvious, but the lack of sufficient explanation regarding the Catalyst's efforts and origin also makes many of his/its motivations bizarre and unsatisfying.
3. The endings fail to fit in with the broadest themes of the series. Slightly different from 1, this criticism notes that the story of Commander Shepherd has always been a story of achieving the impossible with the help of a close crew and rigorous preparation. The endings as offered do not incorporate the crew, do not change significantly in response to your preparation, and while perhaps technically constitute doing the impossible, fail to meet even that low bar which is a solution that does not have an inevitable cross-racial holocaust and galactic dark age as its result.
4. The endings lack variety. This criticism can be directed at both the artistic and story aspects of the ending – the results of the ending decision not only vary little (at least, and this is important, on a scale which is important to our experiences in the game), but the resulting cinematics have only minor differences, and the various sub-endings result in changes so small as to be entirely unnoticeable. Consider that some way could've been contrived to make the Synthetic option differ from the Control option in a fashion greater than a change in the color of the 'light' and a different Texture for Joker in the games final seconds.
5. The mechanics of the ending are not appropriate. Without repeating the various criticisms as regards the ending closely mirroring Deus Ex's, the culmination of the story with a game-show-esque approach to saving the world very much fails to be satisfactory, especially when Mass Effect has otherwise been about the integration of choice into the experience
6. The endings lack dependency on the player's choices prior to the last five minutes. This is important, because the entire rest of Mass Effect 3 was about reacting to previous decisions; consider that, provided one is able to fill the 'war asset' bar in a satisfactory manner via some other means, the decisions in the third game serve no purpose to explain, shape, or enhance the endings. This seems contrary to the spirit of the other 95% of the experience.
7. The endings do not make sense given the character of Shepherd. As has been state elsewhere, we are playing some heroic badass who has otherwise talked down to, shrugged off, and inevitably defeated everyone who threatened, cajoled, or otherwise tried to force him to do something he didn't wish to do. In the ending to ME3, this character offers no rigorous questioning, no protests, no counter-arguments, no discussion of any kind save a resigned sort of death-march which could not be more contrary to his character. This is distressing.
8. The endings have implications, perhaps unintended, which seem to ruin the ME Universe. Admittedly, many of these implications could be avoided, but the lack of contrary evidence fosters a suspicion that these matters were either otherwise not considered, or supposed to be generally acceptable. Indeed, they might even be, but only with proper elaboration, of which there is none.
9. The endings fail to provide closure. There is, as a diagram that is floating around illustrates, no falling action. No conclusion. I do not know what happened to my squadmates – I do not, for reasons that may be bug related, even know which of them is alive. I do not know what happens to the universe, or to the people I've saved. I do not know how I'm remembered, or if any of the terrible things mentioned above actually happens. There almost could not possibly have been less information provided regarding the ending of the game, and that is incredibly distressing when the intention was to wrap up a series that had otherwise displayed all the signs of excellency and had a fond place in our hearts.
This is a misleading article. People don't really want a "happy/disney" ending. They just want a ending that makes sense, the current one is full of giant p[lot holes and don't with the games message in the slightest. Also the 3 ending have nothing to do with the choices you made the entire series. There really is only one ending where you can choose your favorite color.
I don’t know what to say really. Sure a new ending would be good but sometimes sadder endings make you think more, like requiem for the phantom and elfin lied. Though only the first one was an actual game both have sad endings but are appropriate for the story.I'm not so sure that i would change it though, maybe some sort of what if dlc that is based off of fan ideas would not be so bad. i just think it may loose some "Mass Effect" if you change it too much
Man, you guys are kind of making me want to rush through this thing just so I can participate in the conversation. Not that I'm actually going to do that. Just saying, ya kind of make me want to.
Also, didn't read article for obvious reason, but I'm sure it's excellent as always. Well y'know. Probably.
;)
Also, didn't read article for obvious reason, but I'm sure it's excellent as always. Well y'know. Probably.
;)
It seems that "entitlement" has become the new buzzwords among those seeking to diminish those with grievances that they disagree with we.
Lets be clear about one thing. The majority of the players who are on the Bioware Social Network despise the ending options. Some people wanted a happy ending, some people wanted closure.. there are a myriad of perspectives. What unifies them however, is that their lack of choice in affecting the outcome.
No matter what you do *SPOILERS*:
1. Sheppard is separated from his crew and love interest. And in order for him to live, you have to commit genocide. In the other two, he just dies .
2. No matter what you do, your crew is stranded on some planet who knows where.
3. No matter what you do, the mass relays are destroyed thereby completely stranding many races, populations and colonies all over the galaxy.
In short, the ending is incredibly depressing! It's just too much.
Keep in mind, that before the last 5 minutes of the game, there are plenty of choices that you make as far as 'sacrifices' go. You can't save everyone, some characters die, etc. HOWEVER, all those sacrifices feel meaningful and with purpose. They feel epic! More importantly, you get to choose, to a large extent, who lives and who dies. So while you can't save everyone, you can save those who are most important to you.
The endings however fail in this respect, because not only can you not get a 'happy ending', you can't fight for that ending either. It's all a question of which poison pill you would prefer; doesn't change the fact that it's poisoned.
Fans of the Mass Effect series, at least those from the beginning, have been emotionally invested in the plot and the character for 5 years. At the end of ME3, many of them are saying "what was the point in my emotional investment". Another words, there was no payoff. This may not be a universal sentiment, but it is one shared by the majority of fans (at least those who are active online).
So to say that this is nothing but whining and "entitlement" is extremely insulting and misses the whole point. If you are happy with the endings that exist now, then congratulations; you got the ending you wanted. These fans are asking for the same courtesy. Remember, Bioware is on record as stating that this game would give closure and would be a fitting end.
Many fans had the expectation, which was nurtured and fostered by Bioware, that they could fight and get the ending they wanted. This is very different from a movie or play. First of all, games are uniquely suited to addressing these complaints with DLC. A movie, tv series or play cannot just be 'redone' to suit an angry audience.
Secondly, this is about managing expectation and brand loyalty. Games are an interactive experience that foster investment by the player, especially if that game is a Bioware rpg. If these endings aren't fixed, then many players will feel like there investment was pointless. A common sentiment is "If I knew 5 years ago that this is what I'd get, I'd never have played to begin with". That's not a good sentiment to have among your fan base, especially if you want to make more games with the IP.
As far as artistic autonomy goes, again, this is a game that invited the players to participate in the outcome. They were part of the 'artistic' process over the course of 5 years. They were invited to be participants. This isn't like a movie, where you go in and watch it as a passive spectator. To compare, George RR Martin's "Game of Thrones" series quickly established that the fans were a passive audience. We buy this man's books, but the story is his and he is telling it as he see's fit. He also set out very early in the series, that character whom we are emotionally attached to can die, brutally and unfairly. This is the expectation that the fans of that series have, so they know what they're buying. This is not even close to the experience, or product, that Bioware is selling.
As far as gamers demanding better endings, keep in mind that this is not unique to video games. Fun historical facts: audiences in Rome were known to riot when writers went too far. Now, no one is threatening the writers here! In fact, 99% of this game was amazing, and the writing was deeply moving, touching and poignant. No one is threatening Bioware employees, or wishing them ill (at least to my knowledge). Some people have been throwing fits, but many others have been writing very respectful and well thought out requests to fix these endings. There's nothing unreasonable about that. Bioware is a company built upon brand loyalty, and much of that loyalty has come from crafting very satisfying rpg experiences. We want to stay loyal, and we are telling Bioware how it can keep us that way.
For many fans, who have been so emotionally invested for 5 years, these endings were deeply hurtful and depressing. If you weren't so invested, then you obviously don't care, but don't belittle those who have a much different emotional experience.
I also keep hearing things like: "It's the journey, not the destination". To that I say, "The journey doesn't matter, if the destination isn't somewhere I want to be".
Lets be clear about one thing. The majority of the players who are on the Bioware Social Network despise the ending options. Some people wanted a happy ending, some people wanted closure.. there are a myriad of perspectives. What unifies them however, is that their lack of choice in affecting the outcome.
No matter what you do *SPOILERS*:
1. Sheppard is separated from his crew and love interest. And in order for him to live, you have to commit genocide. In the other two, he just dies .
2. No matter what you do, your crew is stranded on some planet who knows where.
3. No matter what you do, the mass relays are destroyed thereby completely stranding many races, populations and colonies all over the galaxy.
In short, the ending is incredibly depressing! It's just too much.
Keep in mind, that before the last 5 minutes of the game, there are plenty of choices that you make as far as 'sacrifices' go. You can't save everyone, some characters die, etc. HOWEVER, all those sacrifices feel meaningful and with purpose. They feel epic! More importantly, you get to choose, to a large extent, who lives and who dies. So while you can't save everyone, you can save those who are most important to you.
The endings however fail in this respect, because not only can you not get a 'happy ending', you can't fight for that ending either. It's all a question of which poison pill you would prefer; doesn't change the fact that it's poisoned.
Fans of the Mass Effect series, at least those from the beginning, have been emotionally invested in the plot and the character for 5 years. At the end of ME3, many of them are saying "what was the point in my emotional investment". Another words, there was no payoff. This may not be a universal sentiment, but it is one shared by the majority of fans (at least those who are active online).
So to say that this is nothing but whining and "entitlement" is extremely insulting and misses the whole point. If you are happy with the endings that exist now, then congratulations; you got the ending you wanted. These fans are asking for the same courtesy. Remember, Bioware is on record as stating that this game would give closure and would be a fitting end.
Many fans had the expectation, which was nurtured and fostered by Bioware, that they could fight and get the ending they wanted. This is very different from a movie or play. First of all, games are uniquely suited to addressing these complaints with DLC. A movie, tv series or play cannot just be 'redone' to suit an angry audience.
Secondly, this is about managing expectation and brand loyalty. Games are an interactive experience that foster investment by the player, especially if that game is a Bioware rpg. If these endings aren't fixed, then many players will feel like there investment was pointless. A common sentiment is "If I knew 5 years ago that this is what I'd get, I'd never have played to begin with". That's not a good sentiment to have among your fan base, especially if you want to make more games with the IP.
As far as artistic autonomy goes, again, this is a game that invited the players to participate in the outcome. They were part of the 'artistic' process over the course of 5 years. They were invited to be participants. This isn't like a movie, where you go in and watch it as a passive spectator. To compare, George RR Martin's "Game of Thrones" series quickly established that the fans were a passive audience. We buy this man's books, but the story is his and he is telling it as he see's fit. He also set out very early in the series, that character whom we are emotionally attached to can die, brutally and unfairly. This is the expectation that the fans of that series have, so they know what they're buying. This is not even close to the experience, or product, that Bioware is selling.
As far as gamers demanding better endings, keep in mind that this is not unique to video games. Fun historical facts: audiences in Rome were known to riot when writers went too far. Now, no one is threatening the writers here! In fact, 99% of this game was amazing, and the writing was deeply moving, touching and poignant. No one is threatening Bioware employees, or wishing them ill (at least to my knowledge). Some people have been throwing fits, but many others have been writing very respectful and well thought out requests to fix these endings. There's nothing unreasonable about that. Bioware is a company built upon brand loyalty, and much of that loyalty has come from crafting very satisfying rpg experiences. We want to stay loyal, and we are telling Bioware how it can keep us that way.
For many fans, who have been so emotionally invested for 5 years, these endings were deeply hurtful and depressing. If you weren't so invested, then you obviously don't care, but don't belittle those who have a much different emotional experience.
I also keep hearing things like: "It's the journey, not the destination". To that I say, "The journey doesn't matter, if the destination isn't somewhere I want to be".
Also, Trist, just to drive the point home, look at #9 a few posts above me.
To many people, you will say "that is the point! You are not supposed to know what happens! Ugh! You guys are missing it!". You'd be making a valid argument. One can easily say there is not "supposed" to be closure.
But then look at it from the other side of the coin. I think it's completely reasonable, as a fan who has been invested for five years, that they'd want some sort of closure for characters they've shared experiences with. When you look at Mass Effect 3 itself, it oozes with fanservice. Characters from past games pop up in some missions for no discernible reason other than for you to say "oh! I remember them!" Mass Effect has never been an insanely intellectually stimulating series. The plot points and themes are usually extremely straight-forward - "will to live", "never give up", "human-kind finds a way when no other race could". Stuff we've seen before. So, I don't get why in it's final 60 seconds it couldn't have been the same.
I'm not losing sleep over it, I can just see that fan's point of view -- and like the Devil May Cry 5 argument ("you just don't like it because of his hair!"), many people are straw-manning things and making them seem "entitled", when they really are just disappointed for many valid reasons.
To many people, you will say "that is the point! You are not supposed to know what happens! Ugh! You guys are missing it!". You'd be making a valid argument. One can easily say there is not "supposed" to be closure.
But then look at it from the other side of the coin. I think it's completely reasonable, as a fan who has been invested for five years, that they'd want some sort of closure for characters they've shared experiences with. When you look at Mass Effect 3 itself, it oozes with fanservice. Characters from past games pop up in some missions for no discernible reason other than for you to say "oh! I remember them!" Mass Effect has never been an insanely intellectually stimulating series. The plot points and themes are usually extremely straight-forward - "will to live", "never give up", "human-kind finds a way when no other race could". Stuff we've seen before. So, I don't get why in it's final 60 seconds it couldn't have been the same.
I'm not losing sleep over it, I can just see that fan's point of view -- and like the Devil May Cry 5 argument ("you just don't like it because of his hair!"), many people are straw-manning things and making them seem "entitled", when they really are just disappointed for many valid reasons.
follow
