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Dutch retailers also don't accept returns of Pc games, except when you give an excuse like "the DRM doesn't work on my computer". Which you shouldn't, since this fucks things up for the store.
I simply cancelled my pre-order. I could give less about whether they know why or not.
I simply cancelled my pre-order. I could give less about whether they know why or not.
I like the idea much better than boycotts or petitions. However, it's that US PC game thing that really throws a wrench in the works. I've tried returning PC games - still in the shrinkwrap a few days after purchase and been denied.
Well by reading all this, I'm going to inform customers who are unlucky enough not to know about this DRM. If anything, people should report this to the BBB or something of that matter, because its so downright scummy to force people to be tethered at all times. Along with that someone could be a nut and say losing his progress caused mental anguish.
if this is like the MW2 petition for Dedicated servers that was signed by more than 300.000 ppl but ignored by IW then this is just a waste of time, i highly doubt game companys actually cares about what it community think, is all about $$
I don't know if this a great idea. In the unlikely chance it catches on it would actually drive initial sales up. Ubisoft could report that the game sold well and that the drm must not have been a sticking point with gamers. Plus, it sort of punishes retailers for no legitimate reason. It just seems kind of dishonest to buy a game, and return it claiming you didn't know about the drm when the reason you are doing this whole plan is that you do know about the drm beforehand and are just pissed about it. I think the best way to send a message is to simply not buy the game and tell you're friends not to buy it either. Just my opinion though.
As said above, it punishes the retailers instead of the publishers. You may experience no net loss of money, but the retailer loses an item to sell but also the money from the sale.
AFAIK with the Settlers 7 it's written on the front of the box (or at least concept box art) in quite some size that it requires you to be online to play.
As for me? I'm considering Settlers 7, DRM or otherwise. Might just get #6 instead.
AFAIK with the Settlers 7 it's written on the front of the box (or at least concept box art) in quite some size that it requires you to be online to play.
As for me? I'm considering Settlers 7, DRM or otherwise. Might just get #6 instead.
Just download the game from a torrent site. Download it twice to protest and crank the download count. Spend your hard earned money on another game that's not infected with DRM.
My method of protest is to not buy AC2. (I had intended to buy it on PS3). I also won't be buying NMH2, even though I really want it. I won't be buying ANY Ubisoft games if they release the game with this DRM. I've got plenty of other games to keep me busy.
@Ghost125 Activision doesn't care about the community but the community gives Activision money and when retailers are returning games things have gone way too far
"And please, please do not pirate the game "out of principle" or "in protest." You prove nothing by doing so and just give publishers all the more reason to clamp down harder or just cut and run."
I really don't agree with this statement particularly right after seeing you write that we should BUY the game and return it? Are you freaking kidding me? There's no way this is going to work. You're expecting consumers to do way too much leg work. There's no way that tactic CAN'T backfire. People will buy it and then say "Eh, screw it.. I already have it" and never actually return it.
I say pirate it, kiddos. Pirate it and don't look back. EA learned from this tactic, no? People pirated the piss out of EA games and now they're starting to back off. Seems to get the message across just fine.
It doesn't seem like the morally sound way to go about getting a message across, but it can't be any worse then buying it and returning it. Christ, that advice makes me laugh just typing it out.
I really don't agree with this statement particularly right after seeing you write that we should BUY the game and return it? Are you freaking kidding me? There's no way this is going to work. You're expecting consumers to do way too much leg work. There's no way that tactic CAN'T backfire. People will buy it and then say "Eh, screw it.. I already have it" and never actually return it.
I say pirate it, kiddos. Pirate it and don't look back. EA learned from this tactic, no? People pirated the piss out of EA games and now they're starting to back off. Seems to get the message across just fine.
It doesn't seem like the morally sound way to go about getting a message across, but it can't be any worse then buying it and returning it. Christ, that advice makes me laugh just typing it out.
Others have said this hurts the retailers, and it will. However, this *isn't* a negative. They'll think twice before stocking anything that has DRM like this.
@Destructony - As much as the DRM sucks, pirating the game why the DRM is there. Its people with logic like yours that make companies like Ubi Soft cook up DRMs like this.
And so the cycle continues.
Pirating is not protesting.
And so the cycle continues.
Pirating is not protesting.
"Pirating is not protesting."
I wish just once somebody would explain how it isn't protesting. Every anti-pirate announces loudly "You're taking money away from the developer when you pirate games". Yet, somehow pirating games that we're supposed to be protesting suddenly isn't doing that.
I don't get it. I wish just one time somebody could actually explain themselves instead of just making a blanket statement as if it's the Holy Truth of the world.
I wish just once somebody would explain how it isn't protesting. Every anti-pirate announces loudly "You're taking money away from the developer when you pirate games". Yet, somehow pirating games that we're supposed to be protesting suddenly isn't doing that.
I don't get it. I wish just one time somebody could actually explain themselves instead of just making a blanket statement as if it's the Holy Truth of the world.
I don't really care what anybody else does. We all have our own moral codes.
Me, I'll be completely ignoring every Ubisoft game made from now on. I don't even WANT to play their games after hearing about this, cracked or not, and I was so excited for the new Splinter Cell it bordered on maniacal.
Congratulations Ubisoft, no longer will you be receiving my money. I will be giving it to some other publishers who don't treat their customers like prisoners.
Me, I'll be completely ignoring every Ubisoft game made from now on. I don't even WANT to play their games after hearing about this, cracked or not, and I was so excited for the new Splinter Cell it bordered on maniacal.
Congratulations Ubisoft, no longer will you be receiving my money. I will be giving it to some other publishers who don't treat their customers like prisoners.
Pirating is not protesting because it's used as a thinly veiled attempt at justifying ALL of your pirating. Sure, you're pirating all those games, but you would pirate them whether or not there were some "noble cause" for you to hide behind and use as flimsy justification for your theft. You'd be doing it anyway, because you have already shown yourself to be an asshole who steals from people who worked hard to bring you entertainment.
Think about it from a chicken and the egg side. Sure it's a cyclical spiral between piracy and DRM, but it's not like piracy was developed to gallantly battle against the horrors of DRM. DRM came about because developers were sick and tired of people stealing their works. Piracy is the root of this spiral, and as such will never have the high ground.
Think about it from a chicken and the egg side. Sure it's a cyclical spiral between piracy and DRM, but it's not like piracy was developed to gallantly battle against the horrors of DRM. DRM came about because developers were sick and tired of people stealing their works. Piracy is the root of this spiral, and as such will never have the high ground.
I absolutely refuse to buy this a game with this DRM, even if it's for the purpose of returning it. I recommend signing the petition, personally.
http://www.petitiononline.com/ew15dl94/petition.html
http://www.petitiononline.com/ew15dl94/petition.html
"Pirating is not protesting because it's used as a thinly veiled attempt at justifying ALL of your pirating."
Honestly... this doesn't make a lick of sense. It's not protesting BECAUSE.. it justifies other pirating? What? In the words of Lebowski... "That's just like.. your opinion, man".
You just created a fictional "you" in your mind and then just went on a rant about this fictional person. It's a cute little story you just crafted, but it's fairly meaningless in an actual conversation or debate. You jumped to way too many conclusions based on 0 facts to actually be making a solid argument.
Honestly... this doesn't make a lick of sense. It's not protesting BECAUSE.. it justifies other pirating? What? In the words of Lebowski... "That's just like.. your opinion, man".
You just created a fictional "you" in your mind and then just went on a rant about this fictional person. It's a cute little story you just crafted, but it's fairly meaningless in an actual conversation or debate. You jumped to way too many conclusions based on 0 facts to actually be making a solid argument.
Alright.. I'm done trolling this particular story. What can I say.. this is a fantastic topic to play devil's advocate on, because it's completely driven by morals and not logic. It's not hard at all to make a point that may seem shocking to some people and yet is completely sound. Pirate it, don't pirate it.. Ubisoft's bottom line is money, and by just not handing it over to them, you're doing video gaming a favor. Outside of that what you do with your time doesn't much matter to this situation.
@ runtheplacered
When a publisher sees a high rate of piracy, it doesn't see a game that was rejected because of DRM. It sees a game that would have been bought had the published used better DRM. Protesting DRM by pirating games is actually reinforcing the publisher's decision to enact the DRM, and actually leads to stronger DRM on the future in the hope of gaining the sale they lost on you.
The only good way to protest is to refuse to have anything to do with the game. No purchasing, no piracy, no renting, nothing. Unless you don't have the resolve to ignore a game that does something you hate, in which case you don't have the appropriate proportion of anger to self-restraint to make a successful protest anyway.
Although honestly, the industry is desperate to increase it's revenue while showing little interest in expanding it's audience. You probably don't have very much time before high end PC gaming converts completely and solely to consoles anyway, if the industry insists on continuing this path, as they would probably take your refusal to buy because of DRM as proof of the death of the PC. Either the PC isn't viable because of piracy or because of a lack of PC gamers would probably be the mentality.
Heck, consoles may not have much time left; Microsoft and Sony are using the 10 year cycle because they can't afford to bring new hardware in earlier If their motion do-hickeys aren't more popular among 3rd party developers than any other hardware expansion in the history of gaming (including the guitar hero guitar and the wii balance board), there won't be enough momentum left to carry them through 2011.
When a publisher sees a high rate of piracy, it doesn't see a game that was rejected because of DRM. It sees a game that would have been bought had the published used better DRM. Protesting DRM by pirating games is actually reinforcing the publisher's decision to enact the DRM, and actually leads to stronger DRM on the future in the hope of gaining the sale they lost on you.
The only good way to protest is to refuse to have anything to do with the game. No purchasing, no piracy, no renting, nothing. Unless you don't have the resolve to ignore a game that does something you hate, in which case you don't have the appropriate proportion of anger to self-restraint to make a successful protest anyway.
Although honestly, the industry is desperate to increase it's revenue while showing little interest in expanding it's audience. You probably don't have very much time before high end PC gaming converts completely and solely to consoles anyway, if the industry insists on continuing this path, as they would probably take your refusal to buy because of DRM as proof of the death of the PC. Either the PC isn't viable because of piracy or because of a lack of PC gamers would probably be the mentality.
Heck, consoles may not have much time left; Microsoft and Sony are using the 10 year cycle because they can't afford to bring new hardware in earlier If their motion do-hickeys aren't more popular among 3rd party developers than any other hardware expansion in the history of gaming (including the guitar hero guitar and the wii balance board), there won't be enough momentum left to carry them through 2011.
I work at Gamestation in the UK. I am not sure if this is a company wide policy but at our store there is absolutely no refunds/exchanges on PC games. Especially those with internet registration DRM.
Each customer is told at the till point to check the PC specifications and to check that they have the required internet access for the DRM.
The best that we can do is merely exchange the game if faulty for a copy of the same games sans activation code.
Each customer is told at the till point to check the PC specifications and to check that they have the required internet access for the DRM.
The best that we can do is merely exchange the game if faulty for a copy of the same games sans activation code.
Don't copy that floppy, it'll kill the gaming industry.
Don't copy that VHS tape, it'll kill the movie industry.
Don't copy that cassette, it'll kill the music industry.
I'll grab whatever version doesn't have DRM and if that means a hacked copy via torrent, so be it. I'll continue getting my non DRM games from GoG.
Don't copy that VHS tape, it'll kill the movie industry.
Don't copy that cassette, it'll kill the music industry.
I'll grab whatever version doesn't have DRM and if that means a hacked copy via torrent, so be it. I'll continue getting my non DRM games from GoG.
I personally agree with the notion that piracy cannot be effectively equated to theft (for reasons too long to place here), but the sad point is that publishers do NOT, and will act in their interests rather than the consumers'. thus it's better to fight back on their terms(i.e. by not buying and thus lowering sales) rather than on yours (pirating and increasing what THEY see as 'thefts').
or, just don't fucking buy it. hurt them where it hurts most, the part of their ass the wallet shares.
@DaddyG :
Surely you allow the return of a defective product. And this DRM can only be described as defective.
Surely you allow the return of a defective product. And this DRM can only be described as defective.
Publishers are so stubborn about their assumptions that it really is difficult to nail down an effective method of protest. Their responses always assume their customers are idiots or thieves.
Pirate the game = x lost sales, our DRM wasn't harsh enough.
Don't buy the game = assume x lost sales via piracy, assume less total sales = untracked piracy.
Petition = those crazy 'net kiddies.. everybody knows only 1 signature out of 1,000 is genuine.
Buy game and return it = retailers may provide feedback, but you're not going to get enough numbers to make the DRM reason stand out. They may remove the DRM or work to fix it, but they'll assume technical issues rather than protest.
The most effective protests seem to be of the type Spore received with the negative Amazon reviews and coverage of the issue by the media. One or both of these resulted in a response by EA - even if it was just toning down the DRM.
Pirate the game = x lost sales, our DRM wasn't harsh enough.
Don't buy the game = assume x lost sales via piracy, assume less total sales = untracked piracy.
Petition = those crazy 'net kiddies.. everybody knows only 1 signature out of 1,000 is genuine.
Buy game and return it = retailers may provide feedback, but you're not going to get enough numbers to make the DRM reason stand out. They may remove the DRM or work to fix it, but they'll assume technical issues rather than protest.
The most effective protests seem to be of the type Spore received with the negative Amazon reviews and coverage of the issue by the media. One or both of these resulted in a response by EA - even if it was just toning down the DRM.
Just because a product doesn't work the way you want it to -- whether it's a videogame with inconvenient DRM or a vacuum cleaner that hurts your back when you push it -- doesn't give you the right to steal that product in "protest".
And in reality, doing so only serves to make the problem worse, since stealing the vacuum will tell the manufacturer that you desire their product, but that it's easier to be a thief than it is to save up the money to buy it legitimately.
To reiterate: If you steal their vacuum, how will the manufacturer know that they need to start making vacuums that don't hurt your back?
The only way to truly protest is to either refuse to use the product or to return it to the manufacturer, citing your unhappiness, and telling the manufacturer that you won't buy another one of their products until they fix what is wrong with it.
And in reality, doing so only serves to make the problem worse, since stealing the vacuum will tell the manufacturer that you desire their product, but that it's easier to be a thief than it is to save up the money to buy it legitimately.
To reiterate: If you steal their vacuum, how will the manufacturer know that they need to start making vacuums that don't hurt your back?
The only way to truly protest is to either refuse to use the product or to return it to the manufacturer, citing your unhappiness, and telling the manufacturer that you won't buy another one of their products until they fix what is wrong with it.
Personally, I'm drafting a strongly worded letter to the upper management of Ubisoft. Not the kind of with four lettered words, death threats or anything along the lines of "I'll just pirate it anyway, ha ha ha!"
It's an explanation of why I won't be buying AC2 or any future Ubisoft publications on PC or otherwise. I encourage everyone here to do the same. INTERNET RAGE only goes so far, unfortunately. Buy it, pirate it, ignore it...I don't particularly care about your particular choice in how to deal with the game itself. The important thing is to inform the people that actually make these decisions aware of your displeasure.
It's an explanation of why I won't be buying AC2 or any future Ubisoft publications on PC or otherwise. I encourage everyone here to do the same. INTERNET RAGE only goes so far, unfortunately. Buy it, pirate it, ignore it...I don't particularly care about your particular choice in how to deal with the game itself. The important thing is to inform the people that actually make these decisions aware of your displeasure.
Most Modern Pirates are the same people that would have never bought the game if the internet wasn't around. So you are not "losing sales", in fact, you just have more people playing, and in an age of online multiplayer, this actually ADDS value to your game.
If you make a game, might as well not put any DRM, because DRM only harms legitimate buyers, the more DRM you put, the less people will want to buy your game, and would much prefer piracy, which causes further DRM because Publishers don't know how to learn. Their actions only serve to harm themselves and their consumers.
Why would anyone want to "support" a suicidal business whose actions result in harming those they need most, Legitimate buyers.
If you make a game, might as well not put any DRM, because DRM only harms legitimate buyers, the more DRM you put, the less people will want to buy your game, and would much prefer piracy, which causes further DRM because Publishers don't know how to learn. Their actions only serve to harm themselves and their consumers.
Why would anyone want to "support" a suicidal business whose actions result in harming those they need most, Legitimate buyers.
@ mrandydixon
Except for the fact that stealing the vacuum cleaner all of a sudden makes the vacuum cleaner not hurt your back at all. Your point isn't bad, I just think your analogy is junk.
Except for the fact that stealing the vacuum cleaner all of a sudden makes the vacuum cleaner not hurt your back at all. Your point isn't bad, I just think your analogy is junk.
I don't understand why people think that piracy is an acceptable alternative to, y'know, not getting the game at all.
Are you really that spoiled? Do you really think that you're entitled to every game that is made?
Are you really that spoiled? Do you really think that you're entitled to every game that is made?
@aaronf
As i say in my post if the game is faulty (ie: it wont read) then the disk will be exchanged for a new one.
The DRM explanation at every sale is to make sure the customer know what they are agreeing to when buying the game. If they do not agree with the DRM then they dont have to buy it.
I am not trying to defend Ubisoft in anyway here. I am just stating that people might end up with a DRMed to fuck AC2 with no one willing to take it back, thus giving Ubisoft more sales.
Personally if someone asked me to refund one i would say no. I agree with the boycott in principle, it just aint worth my getting into shit for with management over it.
As i say in my post if the game is faulty (ie: it wont read) then the disk will be exchanged for a new one.
The DRM explanation at every sale is to make sure the customer know what they are agreeing to when buying the game. If they do not agree with the DRM then they dont have to buy it.
I am not trying to defend Ubisoft in anyway here. I am just stating that people might end up with a DRMed to fuck AC2 with no one willing to take it back, thus giving Ubisoft more sales.
Personally if someone asked me to refund one i would say no. I agree with the boycott in principle, it just aint worth my getting into shit for with management over it.
No can do, already pirated AC2 on the 360. Will pick it up down the line though (not on PC), it was a good game and CHEEVOS.
If you can't afford games, by all means pirate it. Later on you'll just turn into a consumer that buys more games when you make enough money. Same with movies: if you are a poor student, then by all means go download the classics. Then graduate, get a job and buy that Criterion Bluray boxset. Now if you are going to pirate Nuevo Cinema Paradiso and buy New Moon: fuck you.
If you can't afford games, by all means pirate it. Later on you'll just turn into a consumer that buys more games when you make enough money. Same with movies: if you are a poor student, then by all means go download the classics. Then graduate, get a job and buy that Criterion Bluray boxset. Now if you are going to pirate Nuevo Cinema Paradiso and buy New Moon: fuck you.
@mohotogo
Yeah, I knew it wasn't any good, but it's the best I could think of off the top of my head. I should have just left the analogy out and stuck with the protest argument.
Yeah, I knew it wasn't any good, but it's the best I could think of off the top of my head. I should have just left the analogy out and stuck with the protest argument.
BTW how in hell do they count the piravy measures? Piracy is never a solution, but how do they know that someone pirated it, or just didn't buy the software?
I'm gonna get into an argument about the morals of pirating, but most of the arguments here are bullshit. Pirating will always exist, your contribution to it doesn't matter. Piracy is a form of theft, which is a irremovable part of society. Developers will always try to create more stringent methods to combat this, but there will always be a loophole. I don't give a crap about protesting or anything, and I don't give a shit about these morals. The choice to pirate or not will not ever have a lasting effect on either DRM or piracy as a whole; it's an ever present, ever repeating cycle that continues with or without your contribution.
It may sound like I'm trying to offset the guilt of my actions, or that I am attempting to justify them, but I'm not, I'm simply saying that tho we comprise the whole, our individual actions do not affect it. Only as a conglomerate do our decisions make an impact.
What bit of twisted logic allows people to actually believe that Piracy (operating an unlicenced or illegally copied version of a piece of software) isn't theft? I tend to think those same people would think about it differently if your morgage payment and/or feeding/houseing/clothing your family was directly related to how many copies of something you wrote/developed got sold and was not "not stolen" by those that were justifying doing something wrong because it didn't take much effort.
First, it could be counterproductive. Ubisoft might see sales first wave away the return figures returns last, ignoring the message and thinking that the DRM actually worked.
That's what I was thinking. You're only hurting the retailers and they have done nothing.
That's what I was thinking. You're only hurting the retailers and they have done nothing.
UK games stores dont treat pre-orders like the US ones do.
There isnt a massive pre-order culture here, generally unless its a "LOOK R@RE!" limited edition then there is no need to ever pre-order.
Pre-ordering massive volumes is gonna do shit. Most stores only order a few new release PC games as they simply do not sell compared to the console versions.
For example from my personal experience the past few days:
AvP on 360 sold a shitload. PS3 sold alot. PC sold sweet fuck all.
There isnt a massive pre-order culture here, generally unless its a "LOOK R@RE!" limited edition then there is no need to ever pre-order.
Pre-ordering massive volumes is gonna do shit. Most stores only order a few new release PC games as they simply do not sell compared to the console versions.
For example from my personal experience the past few days:
AvP on 360 sold a shitload. PS3 sold alot. PC sold sweet fuck all.
Has anybody thought of the notion of gathering a large enough people to e-mail and mail Ubisoft?
It would send a much more clear message than just shaking your fist at the monitor and signing an e-petition.
Instead, gather enough people to e-mail them, ultimately overloading their servers (note, not mail-bombing, just having a large enough number of people that each person sending one e-mail is still overwhelming in number and serverload), and also getting some cheap ass postcard and mailing that in to the same office responsible for this decision.
It would at least put some weight behind the action, in a real, physical sense. Just something like "Hello, Ubisoft and those responsible for the decision to include your terrible idea of DRM. I will not purchase those games in question, and likely will not purchase any further games you develop and publish until you recognize that we are customers, and not criminals. Your backwards attempts have only succeeded in punishing and alienating your legitimate customers, and have only given further fuel to the urge for piracy of your products. Good day."
The main thing of following through with that, though, is to not be like the hypocritical whining shitbags that "protested" the server situation for MW2 and the development of L4D2. Stand behind your actions with the integrity they deserve or shut your fucking mouth and take it, good and hard.
There is no halfway point on it.
It would send a much more clear message than just shaking your fist at the monitor and signing an e-petition.
Instead, gather enough people to e-mail them, ultimately overloading their servers (note, not mail-bombing, just having a large enough number of people that each person sending one e-mail is still overwhelming in number and serverload), and also getting some cheap ass postcard and mailing that in to the same office responsible for this decision.
It would at least put some weight behind the action, in a real, physical sense. Just something like "Hello, Ubisoft and those responsible for the decision to include your terrible idea of DRM. I will not purchase those games in question, and likely will not purchase any further games you develop and publish until you recognize that we are customers, and not criminals. Your backwards attempts have only succeeded in punishing and alienating your legitimate customers, and have only given further fuel to the urge for piracy of your products. Good day."
The main thing of following through with that, though, is to not be like the hypocritical whining shitbags that "protested" the server situation for MW2 and the development of L4D2. Stand behind your actions with the integrity they deserve or shut your fucking mouth and take it, good and hard.
There is no halfway point on it.
I work for a major retailer in this industry and this won't work for two reasons: 1) as others have stated most retailers won't take returns on opened PC games, and 2) if a PC return sneaks through anyway, returns in gaming are usually covered with an allowance that the supplier pays the retailer/buyer on an after market basis for defective product. We don't actually send the merchandise directly back to them and they do not get reports stating why something was returned. More often than not, the actual product goes back to a third party consolidator who tests it and either throws it out or salvages it for resale to jobbers.
It's so ironic that the games with DRM actually get a worse pirating/sales ratio.
EA learned it's lesson in 2008 and slacked DRM since then:
http://torrentfreak.com/top-10-most-pirated-games-of-2008-081204/
Also Walmart ditched DRM in 2008:
http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/007820.html
Big companies are now starting to understand that DRM has the opposite effect on sales, Ubisoft is just not one of them.
EA learned it's lesson in 2008 and slacked DRM since then:
http://torrentfreak.com/top-10-most-pirated-games-of-2008-081204/
Also Walmart ditched DRM in 2008:
http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/007820.html
Big companies are now starting to understand that DRM has the opposite effect on sales, Ubisoft is just not one of them.
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