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"...clutching a controller with their bare butt cheeks while fragging guys."
I have to say that I would have nothing but the utmost respect for anyone who can do that regardless of their gender.
I have to say that I would have nothing but the utmost respect for anyone who can do that regardless of their gender.
Wait a second ... Elsa, you're a girl? So much is starting to make sense now. ;-)
I hear girl gamers make great sandwiches.
I hear girl gamers make great sandwiches.
One time I was playing L4D2, and I was Rochelle. Some guy kept on shooting me and shouting "GIRLS DONT GAME."
Apparently playing as a female character means that you're a female in real life.
Apparently playing as a female character means that you're a female in real life.
as someone struggling to become a game designer, I have wanted to break that cliche and make stuff that is balanced by gender too. I love women and for that I also want them to enjoy themselves in something that is pretty much a boys' club.
Please no hiding this blog.
I wonder how many hits this is going to have?
Almost every video gaming guy's fantasy is to have the woman in their life.
Be interested and his equal, in something he enjoys. Especially after work for something to relax & socialize TOGETHER. Especially when she's smoking hot. ((Bragging Rights to be had all around.))
Take an example how lucky your husband must feel. To have you as part of his social / gaming life. He treats you as his equal right? You both share a common theme.
It's like the woman in a man's life. Wants to be flirted with, showered with gifts, & constantly be told of how much he loves her. For example wants him to be interested in certain things that she may enjoy. Going out to eat, shopping, or movies.
For the sexualization of VideoGame modeling... Girls know what boys want, right. So they make themselves a fetish niche. Besides we all know how to become famous right? (( Sexting Pics or Sex Tapes. )) Oh, the internet. :)
I wonder how many hits this is going to have?
Almost every video gaming guy's fantasy is to have the woman in their life.
Be interested and his equal, in something he enjoys. Especially after work for something to relax & socialize TOGETHER. Especially when she's smoking hot. ((Bragging Rights to be had all around.))
Take an example how lucky your husband must feel. To have you as part of his social / gaming life. He treats you as his equal right? You both share a common theme.
It's like the woman in a man's life. Wants to be flirted with, showered with gifts, & constantly be told of how much he loves her. For example wants him to be interested in certain things that she may enjoy. Going out to eat, shopping, or movies.
For the sexualization of VideoGame modeling... Girls know what boys want, right. So they make themselves a fetish niche. Besides we all know how to become famous right? (( Sexting Pics or Sex Tapes. )) Oh, the internet. :)
I dunno, I've never meet an Extreme Girl Gamer, but the experience sounds not fun at all.
That being said, you still have not made SilverDragon a sandwich. We're going to have to dock your pay.
That being said, you still have not made SilverDragon a sandwich. We're going to have to dock your pay.
I agree with your disgust at making all things female gamer about their sexuality - and moreover, the quality of said sexuality. Guys start to think they're entitled to have a model-quality girlfriend and everything else is just poo. And these are typically the 14-30 year old, live in mom's basement and eat mac and cheese types. Get real, you scrawny, socially inept motherfuckers.
^ Peggle? Ain't nothin' girly about Peggle, yo.
Anyway, front page.
Anyway anyway, some girl won, or did really well, at the Smash Bros tourny at Evo earlier this year and everyone interviewing her was saying she defied stereotypes and shit. I was wondering how having a vagina could possibly get in the way of playing games. Do you play with your vagina?
If not, I don't see how having one is a factor. If so, pix.
Anyway, front page.
Anyway anyway, some girl won, or did really well, at the Smash Bros tourny at Evo earlier this year and everyone interviewing her was saying she defied stereotypes and shit. I was wondering how having a vagina could possibly get in the way of playing games. Do you play with your vagina?
If not, I don't see how having one is a factor. If so, pix.
Well, ironically I did just get back from making sandwiches for my husband and myself because it's lunch time... so everyone is getting salmon salad sandwiches with mac and cheese! :)
(and rather than hide the blog, I just changed it to a commentary classification, rather than a monthly musing, so it's less likely to be front-paged).
@Shipero... LOL! That kinda came out wrong!
@Silverdragon... sandwiches have been served! :)
@Anonymouse... is that guy still around! One of my first experiences in Warhawk was some guy teamkilling me while yelling "girls don't game"... though it was the female nick and voice, not the avatar that gave me away! LOL!
@Monodi... Yeah, I hope we see more "good games" not "girl games". It doesn't take much for females to better enjoy most of the games currently out there. The occasional strong female characters, female avatars in some shooter games... small changes that don't substantially change the game.
@BS3 Owner... "how many hits is this going to have"... yeah, I know that I do tend to get a pretty decent response to many of my blogs and I often wonder if it's because I'm female... or because I comment on other people's blogs, play in the FNF games, or actually have something interesting to say. I guess I'll never really know for sure. In terms of my husband... he struggles with his own male/female gamer issues. I've been a gamer longer than him, game more than him... and therefore am usually better than him at games - which is hard on the male ego. It shouldn't be though... he's much better than I am at foosball!
@Daxelman... extreme gamer girls I guess are like extreme gamer guys... to be honest anyone who's overly competitive and lives/breathes their KDR drives me nuts I guess! LOL!
@socialnorms... and thank goodness for the ladies on this site who show that we're just regular gamers... and the guys on this site who generally have fun with all of the stereotypes.
@bluexy... thanks!
@tim... UGH!!! I hate "girl games". Unfortunately, they apparently actually sell. Meh... if they get young girls into gaming, hopefully they soon spread their wings and start to play games that are actually just "good games".
@Jesus.. and soon a gal could win a tourney and just be the gamer who won the tourney... not being or defying some stereotype.
@Retro... but guys play FF and Xenosaga and they're gamers.
@Havoc... yeah, I too rather hate both sides of the argument, but hopefully there won't be any sides in the future and it'll all fall under "not an issue".
@Naim... LMAO! Did you not read that part in the blog about me killing you? I'm actually no closer to Granny... than I am to Raychul! Ah well... at least granny is an original and helps to show that all kinds of people love playing games! :)
@walkyourpath... I actually don't really want this on the frontpage as it's more of a personal meandering. It's something that came out but I don't know that it's saying what I want it to say... but maybe one of these days the ideas will coalesce into something more coherent! :)
(and rather than hide the blog, I just changed it to a commentary classification, rather than a monthly musing, so it's less likely to be front-paged).
@Shipero... LOL! That kinda came out wrong!
@Silverdragon... sandwiches have been served! :)
@Anonymouse... is that guy still around! One of my first experiences in Warhawk was some guy teamkilling me while yelling "girls don't game"... though it was the female nick and voice, not the avatar that gave me away! LOL!
@Monodi... Yeah, I hope we see more "good games" not "girl games". It doesn't take much for females to better enjoy most of the games currently out there. The occasional strong female characters, female avatars in some shooter games... small changes that don't substantially change the game.
@BS3 Owner... "how many hits is this going to have"... yeah, I know that I do tend to get a pretty decent response to many of my blogs and I often wonder if it's because I'm female... or because I comment on other people's blogs, play in the FNF games, or actually have something interesting to say. I guess I'll never really know for sure. In terms of my husband... he struggles with his own male/female gamer issues. I've been a gamer longer than him, game more than him... and therefore am usually better than him at games - which is hard on the male ego. It shouldn't be though... he's much better than I am at foosball!
@Daxelman... extreme gamer girls I guess are like extreme gamer guys... to be honest anyone who's overly competitive and lives/breathes their KDR drives me nuts I guess! LOL!
@socialnorms... and thank goodness for the ladies on this site who show that we're just regular gamers... and the guys on this site who generally have fun with all of the stereotypes.
@bluexy... thanks!
@tim... UGH!!! I hate "girl games". Unfortunately, they apparently actually sell. Meh... if they get young girls into gaming, hopefully they soon spread their wings and start to play games that are actually just "good games".
@Jesus.. and soon a gal could win a tourney and just be the gamer who won the tourney... not being or defying some stereotype.
@Retro... but guys play FF and Xenosaga and they're gamers.
@Havoc... yeah, I too rather hate both sides of the argument, but hopefully there won't be any sides in the future and it'll all fall under "not an issue".
@Naim... LMAO! Did you not read that part in the blog about me killing you? I'm actually no closer to Granny... than I am to Raychul! Ah well... at least granny is an original and helps to show that all kinds of people love playing games! :)
@walkyourpath... I actually don't really want this on the frontpage as it's more of a personal meandering. It's something that came out but I don't know that it's saying what I want it to say... but maybe one of these days the ideas will coalesce into something more coherent! :)
A 47 year old gamer "ehhh girl???" in her menopause...and a lot of daily trouble...honey..I see this story on the frontpage.
Good post.
Yeah couldn't care less about gender (or age or anything; have fragged and fragged with pretty much every type of person imaginable throughout the years) when playing, as long as everyone's in it for the actual "love of the game" (or something almost as cheesy and nice as that). "Grrrll gamerz" only stand out negatively for me when they "attention wh*re" for real, don't know shit about games and don't care but pretend they do, bawww about how tough it is to be a girl gamer* and finally when shit like this happens** (none of them ever had a chance to make a blip in any normal tournament against guys who would never ever see sponsorships like that).
* In an exaggerated manner and tied in with the aforementioned issues. Certainly being an (unfortunately) "easy target" will increase the rate of abuse, but the idiots who do that shit are usually idiots to more or less everyone they don't know to be honest. Maybe MasterHaloChief666Lord calls all girls he sees online wh*res that are shit at games and loudly states that he wishes to F them in the A, but to be fair, MasterHaloChief666Lord likely also calls most guys he sees online f*ggots that are shit at games and loudly states that they can S his D. Not a huge difference.
** They are really nice people, just sayin' it's pretty messed up.
Yeah couldn't care less about gender (or age or anything; have fragged and fragged with pretty much every type of person imaginable throughout the years) when playing, as long as everyone's in it for the actual "love of the game" (or something almost as cheesy and nice as that). "Grrrll gamerz" only stand out negatively for me when they "attention wh*re" for real, don't know shit about games and don't care but pretend they do, bawww about how tough it is to be a girl gamer* and finally when shit like this happens** (none of them ever had a chance to make a blip in any normal tournament against guys who would never ever see sponsorships like that).
* In an exaggerated manner and tied in with the aforementioned issues. Certainly being an (unfortunately) "easy target" will increase the rate of abuse, but the idiots who do that shit are usually idiots to more or less everyone they don't know to be honest. Maybe MasterHaloChief666Lord calls all girls he sees online wh*res that are shit at games and loudly states that he wishes to F them in the A, but to be fair, MasterHaloChief666Lord likely also calls most guys he sees online f*ggots that are shit at games and loudly states that they can S his D. Not a huge difference.
** They are really nice people, just sayin' it's pretty messed up.
Haha, Elsa if I told you I totally predicted you'd write this would you believe me? Because I totally did.
I have nothing but agreement for your piece. I feel like these are some of the stereotypes of any woman who steps outside of a "woman's role." As an avid Hilary supporter during the '08 elections I can't tell you how many stupid sex and vagina jokes I put up with. And this is rural buttfuck America so this was beyond sarcasm.
And again with the terms!!! Girl gamer, casual gamer, gay gamer, just shut the fuck up, pick up your controller of choice, and have fun! God dammit.
I have nothing but agreement for your piece. I feel like these are some of the stereotypes of any woman who steps outside of a "woman's role." As an avid Hilary supporter during the '08 elections I can't tell you how many stupid sex and vagina jokes I put up with. And this is rural buttfuck America so this was beyond sarcasm.
And again with the terms!!! Girl gamer, casual gamer, gay gamer, just shut the fuck up, pick up your controller of choice, and have fun! God dammit.
I fapped.
I will also agree with someone who is also female and games. I don't need to use my sexuality to get the attention I let my knowledge of games do that for me. I myself have stopped caring about the "girl gamers" the post pictures of themselves half naked with games and/or game systemsm I just laugh at them. Also this needs to be front paged.
I will also agree with someone who is also female and games. I don't need to use my sexuality to get the attention I let my knowledge of games do that for me. I myself have stopped caring about the "girl gamers" the post pictures of themselves half naked with games and/or game systemsm I just laugh at them. Also this needs to be front paged.
@Krazy... being 47 is a weapon and I'm not afraid to use it! When some idiot feels the need to tell me his sexual fantasies about me on open mic, I'll often just say "you know that I'm 47 right?.... probably old enough to be your mom!" - it usually shuts them up and some even apologize! LOL!
@Torzelan... exactly... it's all about playing the games and lots of different people play. I don't mind people talking openly about their age, gender, race, their jobs, country they live in, their kids, their parents - because it helps to show the vast diversity of gamers. We all have different perspectives of gaming and should be able to express them. That article was interesting because it shows again the consumerism of "girl gaming" and how sponsorship is being tied to their gender. Hell, if any gamer can practice 24/7 with top of the line equipment... they'd better be good. I also agree that aholes online will harass men just as easily as they'll harass women.
@Xzyliac... you always have the best comments!! "Girl gamer, casual gamer, gay gamer, just shut the fuck up, pick up your controller of choice, and have fun!" - yup, that's pretty much what it took me this huge blog to say! :)
... and yeah, it probably was predictable for me to write this blog... I do often write from a female perspective.. because I can't imagine how to write in any other way... but I also don't want to be perceived as a "girl" gamer - just as a gamer who happens to be a female. It's a fine line to walk but I also have to learn to be more accepting of those who choose to be a stereotype - just as I want to just be "me"... maybe being a "hot gamer girl who frags guys" really is who some other women are. Them being that way makes it harder for me to be "just a gamer"... but me being the way I am maybe makes it harder for them to get the attention they possibly seek.
eh... see, I don't really know what I'm saying! LOL!
@psycho... exactly! It's nice to write and talk about games... without getting classed or stereotyped!
@Jim... LMAO!!... and you exactly express the dichotomy of Destructoid with your comment. On the surface it's a "videa gamez site"... with the usual stereotypes, boob jokes and sexist comments... but underneath it all is a sense of humour and a subtle mockery of all the stereotypes! (and sometimes not so subtle mocking! LOL!)
@Torzelan... exactly... it's all about playing the games and lots of different people play. I don't mind people talking openly about their age, gender, race, their jobs, country they live in, their kids, their parents - because it helps to show the vast diversity of gamers. We all have different perspectives of gaming and should be able to express them. That article was interesting because it shows again the consumerism of "girl gaming" and how sponsorship is being tied to their gender. Hell, if any gamer can practice 24/7 with top of the line equipment... they'd better be good. I also agree that aholes online will harass men just as easily as they'll harass women.
@Xzyliac... you always have the best comments!! "Girl gamer, casual gamer, gay gamer, just shut the fuck up, pick up your controller of choice, and have fun!" - yup, that's pretty much what it took me this huge blog to say! :)
... and yeah, it probably was predictable for me to write this blog... I do often write from a female perspective.. because I can't imagine how to write in any other way... but I also don't want to be perceived as a "girl" gamer - just as a gamer who happens to be a female. It's a fine line to walk but I also have to learn to be more accepting of those who choose to be a stereotype - just as I want to just be "me"... maybe being a "hot gamer girl who frags guys" really is who some other women are. Them being that way makes it harder for me to be "just a gamer"... but me being the way I am maybe makes it harder for them to get the attention they possibly seek.
eh... see, I don't really know what I'm saying! LOL!
@psycho... exactly! It's nice to write and talk about games... without getting classed or stereotyped!
@Jim... LMAO!!... and you exactly express the dichotomy of Destructoid with your comment. On the surface it's a "videa gamez site"... with the usual stereotypes, boob jokes and sexist comments... but underneath it all is a sense of humour and a subtle mockery of all the stereotypes! (and sometimes not so subtle mocking! LOL!)
It's endearing to see women getting involved in the gaming culture, we all need a little bit of this feminity.
and you are part of this Elsa.
Excellent blog!
and you are part of this Elsa.
Excellent blog!
I know there are tons of women that game, but there are very few in my immediate group of friends, and the ones that do are extremely casual. Oh well, the perspective is much appreciated.
@Anonymouse... yeah, most of the girl stereotypes seem to come from the industry itself... I honestly don't think that they have the slightest idea about the diversity of female gamers!
@MissHinasaki.. nicely said! LOL!
@Kraid... one of the things I like most about the c-blog is the people.. while I may bring my own perspective, I love seeing the perspectives of others... everyone here is such an individual and I honestly can think of very few that match those silly gamer stereotypes.
@Ace... as I said, things are changing. Maybe more women will get into gaming once they don't have to live up to the stereotypes.
@MichaelBrown... exactly.. just play my games.. and use my own name, and use a mic and blog about them - and it's no longer a "big deal" like it used to be - and I'm thankful for that.
@MissHinasaki.. nicely said! LOL!
@Kraid... one of the things I like most about the c-blog is the people.. while I may bring my own perspective, I love seeing the perspectives of others... everyone here is such an individual and I honestly can think of very few that match those silly gamer stereotypes.
@Ace... as I said, things are changing. Maybe more women will get into gaming once they don't have to live up to the stereotypes.
@MichaelBrown... exactly.. just play my games.. and use my own name, and use a mic and blog about them - and it's no longer a "big deal" like it used to be - and I'm thankful for that.
I love discussing issues of alternative identities to the gamer's status quo. Great blog post.
Elsa, you do a great deal in talking about some of the negative stereotypes that plague women themselves when it comes to gaming. What's your take on the stereotypes of the male gamer that tend to exclude female gamers? For example, many of the women I talk to about videogames believe that it's "a boy thing," and they're always hesitant to even try, even when a game isn't promoting some macho-super-hardass-action-theme. I know women that won't even play newer forms of Super Mario Bros (when they have played Super Mario Bros in the past) simply because they claim that we'll make fun of them for sucking (i.e., boys do it so much better). Is there something else going on that sort of alienates female gamers? And not just machismo-driven games. But perhaps some sort of negative stereotypes about the activity itself.
Elsa, you do a great deal in talking about some of the negative stereotypes that plague women themselves when it comes to gaming. What's your take on the stereotypes of the male gamer that tend to exclude female gamers? For example, many of the women I talk to about videogames believe that it's "a boy thing," and they're always hesitant to even try, even when a game isn't promoting some macho-super-hardass-action-theme. I know women that won't even play newer forms of Super Mario Bros (when they have played Super Mario Bros in the past) simply because they claim that we'll make fun of them for sucking (i.e., boys do it so much better). Is there something else going on that sort of alienates female gamers? And not just machismo-driven games. But perhaps some sort of negative stereotypes about the activity itself.
Elsa, you might find this article interesting: http://sexyvideogameland.blogspot.com/2009/12/about-that-article.html
If you haven't already seen it.
Honestly, the reason I don't hang out with the "gamers" at my school on a more regular basis is because they prescribe to so many of the backward stereotypes about gaming culture and women that I despise. I understand that this is probably caused by a number of factors, but the "gamer girl" identity is just another head on the hydra of stupid ideas the culture of video games needs to kill.
If you haven't already seen it.
Honestly, the reason I don't hang out with the "gamers" at my school on a more regular basis is because they prescribe to so many of the backward stereotypes about gaming culture and women that I despise. I understand that this is probably caused by a number of factors, but the "gamer girl" identity is just another head on the hydra of stupid ideas the culture of video games needs to kill.
I always enjoy posts examining gender in gaming. You make some great points. Will be very curious to see where games are in 5 or 10 years when it comes to how women are viewed, both as players and as characters. It will be lovely to not have games pander to me just because I have a dick.
Oh, and I'd never heard of the Frag Dolls before this but looking at them, all I see are the Budweiser girls with a video game controller replacing the beer can. /yawn
Oh, and I'd never heard of the Frag Dolls before this but looking at them, all I see are the Budweiser girls with a video game controller replacing the beer can. /yawn
"most guy gamers aren't 17 year old pimply-faced geeks gaming in their parent's basement with a stack of girlie mags under the bed"
Actually, wouldn't this generally describe all teenagers?
:D
Actually, wouldn't this generally describe all teenagers?
:D
Roek... wow! excellent comment.
As I said, I actually started gaming way before I realized that it wasn't common for women to game... and obviously I can't speak for other women - but I do think that the stereotypes of "girl gamers" makes it more difficult for women to get into gaming nowadays - I honestly don't know that I would take up gaming nowadays if I had been exposed to all the current press about girls and gaming and the current negative stereotypes. I do think that the recent trend towards cooperative games helps. Women have always played games like WoW because they are social and people work together. I see a lot of women playing Warhawk... first time gamers too! They quickly learn that they don't have to be really good to help out the team, just standing on the right zone to bring it up can be helpful... and they learn quickly. I also saw a lot of women in the MAG beta, because being a medic doesn't rely on FPS skills and it allows shooting skills to more slowly develop while still getting decent points. Actually, I see a fair number of female gamers in many of the truly team based games. Women also play a lot of RPG and offline games... but in general there still is a "boys" club thing about gaming that is only recently starting to fade.
I think it's hard for anyone (male or female) to get into gaming when they're older because they inevitably have to go through that tough learning stage where they will suck... but the skills transfer and each game becomes easier. I saw my husband going through this... and he's getting much better, but it's a tough road for anyone.
The true change will be with people like my niece. She's 6 years old and I just bought her a DS for her Birthday. Hopefully she'll grow up in a world where there are no "girl gamers"... just gamers. That's when things will truly change (and no, she doesn't play the Imagine games! LOL!)
@Khazar222... I did not see that article... and I love it!! She expresses much of what I was trying to say... but in a much more coherent manner (then again, she is a journalist, and I have no interest in being one... so am allowed to ramble!) :)
... Thank you for that link!! (and she also makes a good point about boobs... I understand that aspect of the business totally and it doesn't bother me personally at all - but I do think it might make it more difficult for some women (and even men) to look more closely at the site and see beyond the obvious "click the link because it has boobs" business aspect).
@Occams... yeah, most of the imagery of women in gaming is all business driven - which is why I love seeing pictures of the gamer get-togethers on Destructoid... the NARPS, PAX, other events that just show gamers who love games... male and female!
As I said, I actually started gaming way before I realized that it wasn't common for women to game... and obviously I can't speak for other women - but I do think that the stereotypes of "girl gamers" makes it more difficult for women to get into gaming nowadays - I honestly don't know that I would take up gaming nowadays if I had been exposed to all the current press about girls and gaming and the current negative stereotypes. I do think that the recent trend towards cooperative games helps. Women have always played games like WoW because they are social and people work together. I see a lot of women playing Warhawk... first time gamers too! They quickly learn that they don't have to be really good to help out the team, just standing on the right zone to bring it up can be helpful... and they learn quickly. I also saw a lot of women in the MAG beta, because being a medic doesn't rely on FPS skills and it allows shooting skills to more slowly develop while still getting decent points. Actually, I see a fair number of female gamers in many of the truly team based games. Women also play a lot of RPG and offline games... but in general there still is a "boys" club thing about gaming that is only recently starting to fade.
I think it's hard for anyone (male or female) to get into gaming when they're older because they inevitably have to go through that tough learning stage where they will suck... but the skills transfer and each game becomes easier. I saw my husband going through this... and he's getting much better, but it's a tough road for anyone.
The true change will be with people like my niece. She's 6 years old and I just bought her a DS for her Birthday. Hopefully she'll grow up in a world where there are no "girl gamers"... just gamers. That's when things will truly change (and no, she doesn't play the Imagine games! LOL!)
@Khazar222... I did not see that article... and I love it!! She expresses much of what I was trying to say... but in a much more coherent manner (then again, she is a journalist, and I have no interest in being one... so am allowed to ramble!) :)
... Thank you for that link!! (and she also makes a good point about boobs... I understand that aspect of the business totally and it doesn't bother me personally at all - but I do think it might make it more difficult for some women (and even men) to look more closely at the site and see beyond the obvious "click the link because it has boobs" business aspect).
@Occams... yeah, most of the imagery of women in gaming is all business driven - which is why I love seeing pictures of the gamer get-togethers on Destructoid... the NARPS, PAX, other events that just show gamers who love games... male and female!
Roek jabs at a point that may be fundamental to why women are less apt to get into games, and I think this may be biological. In the same sense that men are (on average) more athletic than women, are men more apt for competition, particularly violent competition? Now, I don't want to turn Freudian here or suggest gender inferiority, but I think what Roek is suggesting with WoW, and what you Elsa point out, with games like MAG, is that women adapt readily to games that are less about solo, machismo-fueled combat, and more about teamwork and constructive gameplay, before moving into the "boys club" games. I think this is probably a good thing! Most of the women I met in WoW seemed to understand cooperation much better than their male counterparts!
I think you're a little harsh on the Frag Dolls. I haven't looked too deeply into everything they put out but I haven't noticed them being particularly sexualized. Look at that pick you posted. They're wearing crew necks and pants fer chrissakes. They might be an awkward and artificial attempt to give girl gamers a positive role model to look up to in the gaming world but I think the intention behind them is noble and not really sex-commodifying. . I don't know of any gamer dudes who jerk off to Frag Doll calendars. Do they even have a calendar?
Also...
in re:
"I hate that in doing this blog, I'm probably perpetuating the "attention wh0re female gamer whining about how we're treated" stereotype"
Fuck 'em. Anyone who bitches about women talking about gender issues is an irrelevant douche-bag and you never should have cared about what they said or what stereotypes they have because they're little shits who can't have adult conversations and should be ignored as such.
Also...
in re:
"I hate that in doing this blog, I'm probably perpetuating the "attention wh0re female gamer whining about how we're treated" stereotype"
Fuck 'em. Anyone who bitches about women talking about gender issues is an irrelevant douche-bag and you never should have cared about what they said or what stereotypes they have because they're little shits who can't have adult conversations and should be ignored as such.
@Khazar... I think that for any gamer starting out with online gaming - cooperative team based gaming is just easier. I think women can be just as competitive as men. With both genders, some are, some aren't. Strawrberrie from Dtoid certainly seems to be an awesome gamer and fairly competitive! :)
It means a time commitment that a lot of people don't have... though maybe men seem to be better able to commit to it than women do at this time in our social history (we're too busy making sandwiches!) I don't personally think it's biological, though maybe societal.
@Daedhead... thanks!
@Jumbo... in the case of the Frag Dolls it's not the sexualization... it's the "girls can beat boys" thing that is so difficult for the average woman to live up to. I think the image deters women from gaming and it's done more as a promo thing to cater to men in gaming. They would have set a better example to have a mixed team... guys and girls who game together. My opinion anyway!
It means a time commitment that a lot of people don't have... though maybe men seem to be better able to commit to it than women do at this time in our social history (we're too busy making sandwiches!) I don't personally think it's biological, though maybe societal.
@Daedhead... thanks!
@Jumbo... in the case of the Frag Dolls it's not the sexualization... it's the "girls can beat boys" thing that is so difficult for the average woman to live up to. I think the image deters women from gaming and it's done more as a promo thing to cater to men in gaming. They would have set a better example to have a mixed team... guys and girls who game together. My opinion anyway!
@Elsa...The issue of time is something we got into in my class on women writers this year, particularly, time being eaten away by domestic duties assigned to women, and the fact that it diminishes creative and entertainment outlets. Its an extension of the Victorian thinking that women should do jack crap that isn't associated with babies or housework. So who's left with the most time for games? XYs, hoo-rah.
Urgh, I get time to check up on the blogs, read this one, and find out everything I wanted to say has already been said to a better degree. So I will say this.
A salmon salad sandwich sounds really delicious. Also, this write-up was fantastic. :)
A salmon salad sandwich sounds really delicious. Also, this write-up was fantastic. :)
great cblog post, I agree with you wholeheartedly- I think you've covered just about anything I would be able to say. I wanna say thank you. :3
The first gamer I knew that happened to be a girl I met when I was like 4-5 years old, and most of the girls I currently hangout with like playing games even if it's not their main hobby, so I've never really had "OMG she's a girl that plays games!!" moments, it was pretty common for me growing up, just get together go to the arcade and shoot some zombies
Also you should play gh naked at least once in your lifetime :P.
Also you should play gh naked at least once in your lifetime :P.
I really liked this post and I think this issue of gender in entertainment mediums extends beyond video games, and into society in general.
In response to your comments about groups like "Frag Dolls" and stereotyping gamer girls:
Megan Fox is not given roles because she can act. She's given roles because she's what society considers sexy. Bond girls are not cast because of their talents. I'm sure there are fat girls that can sing just as well as Brittany Spears, but they aren't given the chance to make CDs because of their looks. The truth of the matter is, the appeal of these groups will never go away. So while I agree that the stereotype of gamer girl may be changing (slowly), the possibility of being treated the "same" in male-dominated gaming categories like shooters is slim. It's a shame, really, but the issue extends far beyond the realm of video games.
In response to your comments about groups like "Frag Dolls" and stereotyping gamer girls:
Megan Fox is not given roles because she can act. She's given roles because she's what society considers sexy. Bond girls are not cast because of their talents. I'm sure there are fat girls that can sing just as well as Brittany Spears, but they aren't given the chance to make CDs because of their looks. The truth of the matter is, the appeal of these groups will never go away. So while I agree that the stereotype of gamer girl may be changing (slowly), the possibility of being treated the "same" in male-dominated gaming categories like shooters is slim. It's a shame, really, but the issue extends far beyond the realm of video games.
A story..:
4 years ago a friend wanted to get me on Counter-Strike.
Yeah, I started to play it with him and had only a UT99 multiplayer experience.
He had a nice girl as gf and was a passioned gamer.
But there was one thing I got to know in this time.
When I played with with Teamspeak, we guys always did not talk very much, because
of concentration^^ but, when a girl logged in...wtf? the boys started to flirt like she was the last girl on earth, even my friend who had a gf.
I hated it. Turned on by a girl who is gaming?? I mentioned that other of my friends have the same problem. When they meet a girl who is gaming, they always forget their girlfriend or try to fuck her at the same moment.
I cant understand it. Turned on by a girl who is gaming?!?!?
I always mentioned stuff like you already told us Elsa:
They start to being perverted and ask if she plays naked or if she would like to see his BFG...omfg...i had to vomit.
Thats always the problem for the gaming WOMANs (yeah..wtf you passed the time to being a girl honey). I mean stupid ho's like Adrianne Curry...confirm this clichè....okay its maybe good for her as PR..but i dont like it.
So stop identify you as GAMER GIRL. For me is everyone only a gamer. Only the
personality counts...not the tits.
4 years ago a friend wanted to get me on Counter-Strike.
Yeah, I started to play it with him and had only a UT99 multiplayer experience.
He had a nice girl as gf and was a passioned gamer.
But there was one thing I got to know in this time.
When I played with with Teamspeak, we guys always did not talk very much, because
of concentration^^ but, when a girl logged in...wtf? the boys started to flirt like she was the last girl on earth, even my friend who had a gf.
I hated it. Turned on by a girl who is gaming?? I mentioned that other of my friends have the same problem. When they meet a girl who is gaming, they always forget their girlfriend or try to fuck her at the same moment.
I cant understand it. Turned on by a girl who is gaming?!?!?
I always mentioned stuff like you already told us Elsa:
They start to being perverted and ask if she plays naked or if she would like to see his BFG...omfg...i had to vomit.
Thats always the problem for the gaming WOMANs (yeah..wtf you passed the time to being a girl honey). I mean stupid ho's like Adrianne Curry...confirm this clichè....okay its maybe good for her as PR..but i dont like it.
So stop identify you as GAMER GIRL. For me is everyone only a gamer. Only the
personality counts...not the tits.
Front page this....front page this....front page this
If this doesn't get on the front page DToid has failed.......agree or disagree one of the better writen blogs.
If this doesn't get on the front page DToid has failed.......agree or disagree one of the better writen blogs.
Hey, isn't that Raychul Moore holding the GH guitar controller in the second pic? Looks like her. She's a really good example of being a "girl gamer."
You tell em :P I hate that shit, thus my hatred of people like Jessica Chobot explained. And groups like the Frag Dolls seem like nothing more than some stuck up feminist group to me. That shit isn't needed.
Seems I can always count on you to write good stuff.
Seems I can always count on you to write good stuff.
Awesome writeup. I got my BA in philosophy and the one thing I hated more than anything else was how ALL of my female classmates became completely obsessed with feminism. Sure, it' done some decent stuff, but there are so many other interesting and not-so-limiting philosophies that could have fitted what they wanted to do so well.
I always joked that "if you need your own branch of philosophy to prove you're equal or better, you're not" but as time went on it became less of a joke and more of a belief. I think the same is true for most girl gamers clans, sites, etc... and to a different extent, the same can be said of gay gamer sites/clans/etc. If you want to be treated as equals you have to be equals... not quibbling, annoying, or attention seeking.
I always joked that "if you need your own branch of philosophy to prove you're equal or better, you're not" but as time went on it became less of a joke and more of a belief. I think the same is true for most girl gamers clans, sites, etc... and to a different extent, the same can be said of gay gamer sites/clans/etc. If you want to be treated as equals you have to be equals... not quibbling, annoying, or attention seeking.
Darn I was thinking about writing a blog about love/hate:girl gamers. Well it seems like everything I you said seems to be better said here. I'll only add that I agree on everything you said.
It's funny how I'll be playing video games with my cousins and he'll ask me "You're a grown up and why you play DS?" He never seem to question why a girl plays video games or why boys do, just he seems to wonder why a adult would play it. And as a kid I thought the same thing. I never questioned why either gender would play video games, till I went to high school and started to notice that it's not common for a girl to play video games.
But anyways great write up Elsa!
It's funny how I'll be playing video games with my cousins and he'll ask me "You're a grown up and why you play DS?" He never seem to question why a girl plays video games or why boys do, just he seems to wonder why a adult would play it. And as a kid I thought the same thing. I never questioned why either gender would play video games, till I went to high school and started to notice that it's not common for a girl to play video games.
But anyways great write up Elsa!
I hate people who decorate their blogs with scantily clad female/breast shots, because they can put me into trouble since I often browse destructoid at work.
I hate video game/car review shows on TV where one of the reviewers is a "hawt gamer/car gurl", everything that comes out of her mouth is discredited by her slutty looks. It in turn fuels prejudice like "the man with her must've told her what to say" and "only men know anything about video games/cars". I wonder if those female reviewers are aware of this?
I love Elsa because she hates a lot of things that I hate. <3 Thanks for the good read!
I hate video game/car review shows on TV where one of the reviewers is a "hawt gamer/car gurl", everything that comes out of her mouth is discredited by her slutty looks. It in turn fuels prejudice like "the man with her must've told her what to say" and "only men know anything about video games/cars". I wonder if those female reviewers are aware of this?
I love Elsa because she hates a lot of things that I hate. <3 Thanks for the good read!
More responses than I thought this blog would get... so I'm giving up on responding individually other than to say thank you everyone for commenting! :)
@Chiben... yes, it's unlikely that women gamers will ever be treated the "same" as guy gamers and the issue does extend beyond video games, but I think I'm just happy that the stereotypes are fading and that gamers, devs and the industry are recognizing that female (and male) gamers are diverse and just can't be as easily stereotyped. I don't want to be treated as a guy... but I do wnat to be treated as an individual and get buddy invites because people enjoy gaming with me... not so that they can have a girl on their buddy list. It's nice to jump into a game nowadays and not be treated as a freak or something unusual.
@Tonic... yes it is Raychul. Raychul is by all accounts an avid gamer but her modeling career seems to have become confused with her being a gamer and it's created a stereotype that is detrimental to female gamers in general. I personally lost some respect for her when she entered the Miss Video Game Contest with those pictures... and I think in the long run she might have had a better career in the gaming industry if she had kept her clothes on, but that's just my opinion. She's a bright articulate woman who loves gaming and it's too bad that she didn't use those assets... instead of other more obvious ones.
@themizarkshow... "If you want to be treated as equals you have to be equals" - yup!
@Mellowbunny... yeah, it's nice that the next generation of gamers likely won't have the gender divisions currently in the industry! I still remember a time when the news on TV was "man stuff" and how women were only the pretty weather girl... nowadays female anchors on the news are commonplace and a non-issue. Hopefully gaming will also evolve that way.
@Chiben... yes, it's unlikely that women gamers will ever be treated the "same" as guy gamers and the issue does extend beyond video games, but I think I'm just happy that the stereotypes are fading and that gamers, devs and the industry are recognizing that female (and male) gamers are diverse and just can't be as easily stereotyped. I don't want to be treated as a guy... but I do wnat to be treated as an individual and get buddy invites because people enjoy gaming with me... not so that they can have a girl on their buddy list. It's nice to jump into a game nowadays and not be treated as a freak or something unusual.
@Tonic... yes it is Raychul. Raychul is by all accounts an avid gamer but her modeling career seems to have become confused with her being a gamer and it's created a stereotype that is detrimental to female gamers in general. I personally lost some respect for her when she entered the Miss Video Game Contest with those pictures... and I think in the long run she might have had a better career in the gaming industry if she had kept her clothes on, but that's just my opinion. She's a bright articulate woman who loves gaming and it's too bad that she didn't use those assets... instead of other more obvious ones.
@themizarkshow... "If you want to be treated as equals you have to be equals" - yup!
@Mellowbunny... yeah, it's nice that the next generation of gamers likely won't have the gender divisions currently in the industry! I still remember a time when the news on TV was "man stuff" and how women were only the pretty weather girl... nowadays female anchors on the news are commonplace and a non-issue. Hopefully gaming will also evolve that way.
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