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Levine: Videogame sex is like puppets with clothes off photo

BioShock director Ken Levine has criticized the current state of videogame sex scenes, describing them as looking like naked puppets boinking, even going so far as to compare it to the sex scene from Team America.

"If you think about the amount of, for example, nudity in a videogame ... it’s not even nudity," he said. "It’s a puppet with its clothes off. There are other problems as well. It’s kind of silly in videogames right now, because -- again -- puppets with their clothes off.

"It’s more like Team America. The sex scene in Team America as opposed to, you know, the sex scene in Black Swan."

Levine said another problem is that games are still viewed as toys, explaining why you can't have sex in a game without controversy. That also goes for the game industry itself, with Levine pointing out how an interviewer once criticized him for foul language just because he says f*ck now and then. 

As is often the case, Levine has some smart words to say. I keep thinking about the disturbingly awkward, shoehorned sex scene in Heavy Rain. Wasn't erotic, nor did it add anything to the story. Sex for sex's sake, just to look grown-up, and it came off as infantile. Puppets with clothes off, indeed.

Levine: Current game sex like “puppets with their clothes off” [VG247]








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60 comments | showing # 1 to 50
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Sonic9jct's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/07/2011 11:22
Sonic9jct
Yes, yes, all well and good Mr. Levine. But what do those cheeky Angry Birds boys have to say on the subject?
Blahblahblahblah's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/07/2011 11:24
Blahblahblahblah
I have to agree. It never seems to be necessary, and it just makes for some awkward-ass times when someone walks in when it's playing.
ZeniGeva's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/07/2011 11:27
ZeniGeva
Oh GAD the Heavy Rain sex scene...I'm sure as we speak David Cage is crafting the next one for his new "5Alive!" game.
Tristrix's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/07/2011 11:28
Tristrix
I agree with him but I don't like the implication that we should just forget the whole thing and accept that we're all partaking in an infantile medium, which is what I got from that.

So how do we fix it? What would make it more like Black Swan and less like Team America? I have no idea, but someone smarter than me should figure something out.
Epic-Kx's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/07/2011 11:29
Epic-Kx
@ZeniGeva

It will involve Johnny 5 Banging A semi hot brunette wig nice rats
MasterBalls's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/07/2011 11:29
MasterBalls
I found it kind of silly how everyone went crazy over the Mass Effect sex scene. It was boring. No alien nips.
Bobthecatlol's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/07/2011 11:33
Bobthecatlol
I think puppets with clothes off is a fair comment to make, I think the major problem is the animations.

As for changing the attitudes of society, good luck with that. Some games like Heavy Rain do contribute to helping the cause of gamers by being gritter and less over sexualised.
Dv8thwonder's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/07/2011 11:36
Dv8thwonder
Header is scary and wrong.
Icehearted's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/07/2011 11:37
Icehearted
This only demonstrates that in about 30 years, video gaming has not come very far. Sure things look better and sound great, but the film industry matured way faster than this.
redeemer's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/07/2011 11:38
redeemer
unless it's a japanese dating sim, sex in video games is pointless 100% of the time.

stop trying to animate it. just imply it and save yourself the awkward mocap and acting. most developers are going to have the characters bump uglies with their underwear still on anyway, which is even more silly.

frankly, even if they "perfect" it, I'd rather do away with sex scenes in games anyway. it doesn't offend me, I just think it's stupid.
Super Drybones's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/07/2011 11:39
Super Drybones
( . Y . ) Am I art yet?
Blahblahblahblah's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/07/2011 11:43
Blahblahblahblah
@Icehearted

How the hell is just throwing in people having sex "mature"? They do the exact same thing in movies. It sure as hell doesn't signify anything or contribute to the plot, because people will just do anything to fuck something anymore.
Elsa's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/07/2011 11:45
Elsa
Video game sex is very different from movie sex though... movie sex is something you watch, while video game sex is something that's just more participatory. I don't want to be some guy drilling some gal - that would just be way too wierd for me and I think I prefer puppet sex if that's the only way to get on to the rest of the story in the game. It must be difficult for devs to find a happy medium that the gamers can be happy with - we all have different sexual preferences and thresholds.
thatkidwhodraws's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/07/2011 11:51
thatkidwhodraws
Levine is normal: Makes reasonable observation
Jhonny Thizzlam's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/07/2011 11:51
Jhonny Thizzlam
let us see those puppets super dry bone each other
llort het's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/07/2011 11:54
llort het
I haven't read through the comments very thourghly, but has ANYONE mentioned the uncanny valley, because that's pretty much the biggest problem.
Erdrick's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/07/2011 12:00
Erdrick
Nice to see Levine's still got some sense, unlike the sad sacks at BioWare.
Attackbaby's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/07/2011 12:01
Attackbaby
couldn't agree more
Shinta's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/07/2011 12:05
Shinta
I've always thought Bioware's sex scenes, and more importantly, their romantic storylines, are pretty bad. If you're just going to go for a system where you toss gifts and compliments until your score is high enough for sex, you might as well just get a Japanese dating sim. Honestly, I bet those have way better storylines.
Dv8thwonder's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/07/2011 12:07
Dv8thwonder
No sex in videogames please!
Comrade Snarky's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/07/2011 12:13
Comrade Snarky
Captain Obvious?

Also, the awkwardness of the actual scenes is a totally separate problem from the "sex for sex's sake" problem. The latter issue is not limited to sex--truth be told, the storytelling in most games is pretty pathetic, such that there's really no justification for anything that goes on in games. I'm sure we could all come up with a bunch of fantastic games that really nailed creating a compelling narrative/world, but we also know they are the exceptions, not the rule.
32BitSin's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/07/2011 12:13
32BitSin
Honestly, as much as I think video games are fantasy like and give us all the ability to be someone else, sex does not have to factor in to that. It's like making us work as sky diving instructor in a video game. You get none of the thrill out of it and you can do both in real life. What you cant do is shoot a guy in the face or save the world. That's what games should be about. Fantasy where fantasy should be and reality where reality should be.
MooseyMcMan's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/07/2011 12:22
MooseyMcMan
You know, you didn't have to do the sex scene in Heavy Rain. Just saying.
Cossner's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/07/2011 12:26
Cossner
Ken Levine can have my naked puppet anytime he wants.
ismegamanthere's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/07/2011 12:30
ismegamanthere
Couldn't agree more. I feel the same way about movies as well. I've always felt sex scenes take away from both movies and games. The implication is more than enough. Just do away with the scene and add in substance.
CLFresh's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/07/2011 12:39
CLFresh
Another reason I love Mr. Levine. If he made a religion where he is GOD I would join that shit in a heartbeat. Seriously though, I just did a paper on the media, errr Fox News?, and their attacks on the video game industry and I completely agree that most people still see video games as a toy, rather than an interactive art form.
hermes's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/07/2011 12:42
hermes
There are several different problems mentioned here, and they should be addressed separately. One is throwing sex scenes for the sake of it, which is juvenile and pointless (yes, God of War, I am looking at you).
The other is how they look, which is not very believable but its mostly a matter of technology. Sure, Mass Effect sex scenes look awkward for the most part, but they are a long way from Custer's revenge.
Finally, it is the point about how the world regards videogames. Mostly, I believe its a generational thing, the same as with the violence controversy.
falsenipple's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/07/2011 12:59
falsenipple
I'll hold out for a Robocop sex scene to make my final judgement.
Occams electric toothbrush's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/07/2011 13:10
Occams electric toothbrush
Making the sex meaningful for me and have a point. Think in time with progressions in technology and story telling we will get some really emotionally impacting moments. For now, eh, I can see the puppet thing.
Gameonicon's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/07/2011 13:16
Gameonicon
It's funny how game artists are able to create all kinds of "realistic" gory effects but not a good f*ck.
PhilK3nS3bb3n's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/07/2011 13:36
PhilK3nS3bb3n
@falsenipple: YES.
@Gameonicon: so true.
kid23455's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/07/2011 13:40
kid23455
Video game sex is simply stupid. Possibly it's because of gaming still considered a "toy", and I really hate sex scenes when somebody else is there, or anything else that intends to be erotic. Even alone, it makes you feel awkward, and you just want to get back to the game. I don't find sex scenes "mature", rather something stupid that never should have existed.

That's not saying video games can't have sex, but a reference is enough to get the point across without making you feel like a douchebag.
Roll Fizzlebeef's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/07/2011 13:51
Roll Fizzlebeef
Comparing it to the Team America puppet sex is spot on. Videogame sex scenes come off as being there purely for the spectacle of it.

The biggest hurdle that I see is that videogames are interactive and it's difficult to make a sex scene interactive without being awkward and unintentionally hilarious. The alternative is to have a cut scene, but then it's not really "videogame" sex per-say, it's just animated sex (which itself is difficult to do well).

I think the best ways for videogames to handle sex within a love story is how they used to handle it in movies - imply that it's going to occur, but let it happen off screen. I think too much attention is paid to "doing sex right" as a barrier between videogames catching up with movies. If they want to be "more movie like," videogame makers need to focus on making more believable characters - better stories, dialogue, voice acting, animated expressions. Once the characters become believable enough then real-life situations such as sex will come naturally.

Having said that, my favorite videogames are still the ones that focused on better gameplay rather than being more like a movie.
Tye The Czar's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/07/2011 13:52
Tye The Czar
Visual Novels do it better... except for Type-Moon's titles.
flea friend's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/07/2011 13:56
flea friend
I wonder if, while Levine is complaining about games with mediocre sex, there's a dev somewhere in Japan complaining about sex games with mediocre gameplay...
atastysammich's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/07/2011 13:56
atastysammich
Heavy Rain has a sex scene? Please tell me it has Move support now.
Tarlol's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/07/2011 13:59
Tarlol
@Tristrix
I didn't get that at all. I think he's calling for games to grow up.
The real problem here, IMO, is player control. In a game like Mass Effect, the MC IS your doll, basically. He is a puppet. So of course it's gonna be awkward and weird.
Roll Fizzlebeef's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/07/2011 14:02
Roll Fizzlebeef
@atastysammich - Heavy Rain is a funny game for me. As terrible as I think it is, I really enjoyed laughing through it once with a friend. Then they announced Move support and I REALLY want to play it again, but I don't have Move or know anyone who does.

Move has been out for several months now and Heavy Rain is still the only Move game that interests me.
Wedge's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/07/2011 14:11
Wedge
Halflife will show everyone how to do sex right in a game, that's why Ep3 is taking so long. They're gonna use all the proper visual cuing and first person perspectiving and everything. Once they just find a way to render your character in first person...
KingSigy's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/07/2011 14:12
KingSigy
Heavy Rain really made no sense in regards to sex. Both characters had no sexual chemistry or any real interaction aside from 1 scene. Why the hell did they suddenly care enough?

My favorite part was, "The only thing that matters to me is saving my son." Cue sex scene.
Ilostmycookie's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/07/2011 14:18
Ilostmycookie
I really like this guy...
Archwright's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/07/2011 14:20
Archwright
I didn't feel like the people in Dragon Age: Origins or Mass Effect were puppets having sex.

In a general sense, though, I begrudgingly agree with him. I've heard video game sex scenes compared to people having sex with their parents watching. The lingering cultural stigma of games does prevent physical intimacy (of any kind) from being received well.
HEL105's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/07/2011 15:04
HEL105
I completely agree with redeemer, just imply the sex. I've yet to see a sex scene in a video game that wasn't horribly awkward, embarrassing, and unintentionally hilarious. It completely kills whatever emotion the devs were trying to get from the scene.
Redreap3r's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/07/2011 15:09
Redreap3r
I agree with Levine the sex scenes have increased more since mass effect one and there have not gotten any better so I wonder why they keep appearing.
Perfidious Sinn's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/07/2011 15:11
Perfidious Sinn
as opposed to, you know, the sex scene in Black Swan

Thanks for the spoiler, asshole.
Kanten's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/07/2011 15:21
Kanten
The first Mass Effect's scene wasn't terrible. Of course then Bioware/EA caved to whiny Fox News and everything since has been ridiculously hilarious.
GalacticFerret's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/07/2011 15:33
GalacticFerret
MMm dunno I like to call Kelly Chambers to treat my Shepard good from time to time..
Smackybutts's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/07/2011 15:35
Smackybutts
You know, I often find sex scenes in most movies to be pretty shoehorned-in and awkward as well.
Reginald's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/07/2011 15:37
Reginald
very interesting statement. Levine's a smart guy, and thats an excellent comparison. Its probably possible to pull off a sex scene that isn't awkward, however the first thing you'd need to do is switch from motion captured actors, to very carefully, hand-animated characters. or go the LOTR route, where you expertly combine top-of-the-line motion cap (way above more video studio's budget) with hand-tweaked animation. this will never happen due to cost.

the scene in heavy rain was like walking in on two mannequins dry humping.
Scissors's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/07/2011 15:42
Scissors
Agreed, I don't like sex scenes in video games too weird, and mostly purposeless

also it gets really annoying because people are always talking about it. I remember everyone making a big deal about the "Sex Scene" in Uncharted 2. It wasn't even that big of a deal they were fully clothed and it switched scenes before they showed anything.

I haven't played Mass Effect 2 or Heavy Rain yet, everyone is always talking about those sex scenes. It's obnoxious because when I play the games I'm going to be constantly thinking about when the Sex scene is coming up and it distracts from the enjoyment of the game.
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