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Lair developer all over the PS3 like a fat kid loves cake photo

While you and I may debate which console is more powerful/easiest to develop for, the true voice of reason is the programmers and such who are on the front lines of this next-gen war.

We should be listening to the people who actually make these things, not play them. So if a developer, such as Julian Eggebrecht, president of Lair developer Factor 5, says tings like the PlayStation 3 has "limitless power" or "If you create first on the PS3, it is pretty easy to port it to the 360," then we should be paying attention. Interesting quotes from the San Jose Mercury News:

Q: How do you feel about the risks? What were your biggest bets?
A: The biggest risk around Lair is that it is something unusual. As with any original IP, we are layering on top of the usual risk. It’s a new genre. At its core, as a genre, outside of our games, was never a multimillion unit seller.

Q: How soon did you figure out what the PlayStation 3 could do?
A: Will we ever? (laughs). The baseline isn’t hard to figure out. Yes, it’s a harder ramp. ... The PS3 has more of the situation where you could go another six months easily and forever. You can get so much more power. RSX is a known quantity. But Cell is pretty limitless at this point.

Q: How do you look back at this point on the differences between the PS 3 and the Xbox 360?
A: You’ll have a hard time if you port without having a PS3 game in mind when you created the 360 version. ... The PS3 is all about streamlining about the two different memory pools. They are separate. You don’t have to do tiling because you don’t have an embedded frame buffer. All of these advantages of the PS3 turn into disadvantages if you don’t start making your game on the PS3. Hence the griping. If you create first on the PS3, it is pretty easy to port it to the 360. A lot of companies coming on board now will probably start on the PS3 and move to the 360. The lucky thing for us is we didn’t have to think about the 360 at all.

One more sort of interesting tid bit on controls:

Q: The Sixaxis — this is your first crack at that. How is it?
A: Yes. That waggle. Sixaxis. For me, I am not in the rumble camp. I am in the motion control camp. Give me the choice any day and I will choose it as the next logical evolution. You get more disk space with Blu-ray. You get more CPU power with Cell. The pixel shaders with RSX. What changes about the controller? That’s my one gripe with the 360. It is very nicely done. Don’t get me wrong. On the controls, nothing changed. Sony and Nintendo went the extra mile. Nintendo went the extra 10,000 miles. But Sony said we have to have something fresh in every area. That doesn’t mean you should absolutely have to use it. That is one point that Lair should make. The history of the game shows you can overdo Sixaxis support. At the Tokyo Game Show, we had a version where you could use Sixaxis controls on the ground. That was forcing something that didn’t feel natural. Flight is natural because you have a wider range of motion than you could ever have with a stick. On the ground, you are used to the analog stick.

For us, the gestures came in and that really made it possible to have the physical combat between the dragons. It was all about the physicality of the dragons. If you didn’t have that, it would be a air to ground, seamless shooter. The shooter element is in there and it is fun. But the physicality of the dragons is the big one and that gets enhanced by the Sixaxis controller a lot. When you fly next to a dragon and want to slam into it, you slam the controller. You don’t have to do it like a madman. The Sixaxis is surprisingly subtle in realizing the motion. You get very detailed curves out of it. It works great for the gestures. The gestures are heaven sent. We were starting to double up buttons. And we wanted the 180 move. Somebody came up with the idea of moving your hands up to do the 180. You can also cram to many gestures onto it and people wind up getting confused. You have to balance it. Use traditional controls where applicable and integrate motion control as one more tool. With Lair, we believe you get the complete PS 3 experience which does include Sixaxis.


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41 comments | showing # 1 to 41

Joe Burling's Avatar
Joe Burling at 04/16/2007 10:25
The possibilities with the PS3 are limitless! ...except when you need more than 256mb of VRAM...
michiyoyoshiku's Avatar
michiyoyoshiku at 04/16/2007 10:30
Yeah did that even make any sense?

How much money did Sony pay them to kiss their ass?
tazarthayoot's Avatar
tazarthayoot at 04/16/2007 10:38
It must have been a lot if Factor 5 is still so pro-PS3 while Capcom and others have jumped ship.
Dexter345's Avatar
Dexter345 at 04/16/2007 10:38
So by paying attention to him, are we necessarily not paying attention to other developers who don't say what we want to hear?
B-Radicate's Avatar
B-Radicate at 04/16/2007 10:39
it's easy to get your ass kissed when you're signing the bills. clearly.

it's funny that factor 5 is hailing the ps3 as much as they are considering almost all the reports i've read about lair say that it's not really all that great. ign tore them apart on the sixaxis controls from what i recall. the controls were what most people hated about warhawk, too. the only people that seem to like the sixaxis control scheme are the developers and sony.
OutrageousToob's Avatar
OutrageousToob at 04/16/2007 11:01
Meh.... Sure, it looks nice but what else? There are 13,465,738,044,345 other games out there that look nice too. I could just as easily play one of them and save myself
six-hundered-plus dollars.

GuitarAtomik's Avatar
GuitarAtomik at 04/16/2007 11:03
Why are people still acting like Sony had to choose between rumble or motion control? We all know why they weren't both in there before and and it wasn't because they couldn't co-exist.
tazarthayoot's Avatar
tazarthayoot at 04/16/2007 11:04
Sony wants it to seem like it was by their choice that it didn't have rumble. All us internets folks may know the reason but John Q. Dumbass most likely doesn't.
OutrageousToob's Avatar
OutrageousToob at 04/16/2007 11:05
And yeah, the ass-kissage has definitely begun.
velcroman's Avatar
velcroman at 04/16/2007 11:14
the title reminds me of gregor.
Artadius's Avatar
Artadius at 04/16/2007 11:22
Hey, all you people denouncing this article... please be distracted by our pew pew pew fireball breathing dragons!
Brandon Undead's Avatar
Brandon Undead at 04/16/2007 11:23
It sounds to me like he's saying "The PS3 is powerful, but it's also hard to develop for. After developing for PS3, slapping it together for a 360 is cake."

Not saying that is a good or bad thing.
some_dude's Avatar
some_dude at 04/16/2007 11:26
I think Summa summed it up best without even meaning to; "We should be listening to the people who actually make these things, not play them."

That's right, they are all hot for PS3's hardware, they could care less if it a fun game, as long as it's bump-mapped, super-shader-tastic!!
BluDesign's Avatar
BluDesign at 04/16/2007 11:31
That almost sounds like a cry for help from someone who CAN'T get out of a bad situation.

Factor 5, the second you stopped making awesome Star Wars games is the second I stopped caring about you.

It would appear that outside of their cash machine known as Rogue Leader, they're mostly a house that does ports and licensed games. They don't have a super history when it comes to original content, so I'm not surprised people are ripping Lair apart.
psychopathic's Avatar
psychopathic at 04/16/2007 11:37
I want to see it first, and by see I mean play.
subnet6's Avatar
subnet6 at 04/16/2007 11:49
This guy is in charge of Lair, a PS3 exclusive. He absolutely MUST say what he said. I would never listen to a guy working on an exclusive about how great that System is.

The thing I take away from this is the inherent bad news. Basically this guy is saying you can expect lots of PS3 games to make their way to the 360 but not vice versa. This is really bad for the PS3, and great for the 360. Why hasn't anyone noticed this?
brad drac's Avatar
brad drac at 04/16/2007 12:07
So how come this post contains not even a touch of anti-sony sentiment? Every single wii post, no matter who staggeringly positive the news, has some complaint about how it's doomed to failure(despite already shipping over 6 million), or how it's software drought is doing more harm than aids and global warming combined(despite last weeks release of super paper mario). So what's the deal here? Is it because sony are actually in a spot of trouble that they don't get hit with the doom stick? I mean, I don't mind a bit of bias, but I'd rather the bias were equal for all parties.
plkrtn's Avatar
plkrtn at 04/16/2007 12:16
3/4 of ALL games currently in development for consoles are in development on the XBox 360, rather than the PS3. So what does this guy know that the majority don't?
Creamsnake's Avatar
Creamsnake at 04/16/2007 12:21
@subnet6: Well, I think he's assuming that developers will want to release games for BOTH consoles. He's not talking about games that were entended to be "exclusives".

If he is correct (I'm not saying he is) then it will be in the best interest of whatever companies to not have a good version of a game on one system and a flawed/obviously inferior version on another...

At least, that's my take on it.
rbrooks's Avatar
rbrooks at 04/16/2007 12:29
blah blah blah blah...i fucking hate interviews with these PS3 publishers...they never say anything bad. they don't even talk about the actual game, they spend time telling us how good the ps3 is and why we should buy it. People don't care about the console GUY, it's the games.
Jamesways's Avatar
Jamesways at 04/16/2007 12:40
So if we have a 360 we have to wait for companies to release superior ps3 versions first?
Jamesways's Avatar
Jamesways at 04/16/2007 12:42
and rumble is sooooo last gen.
tazarthayoot's Avatar
tazarthayoot at 04/16/2007 12:43
@brad drac

Because PS3 has Bluray!

Read the comments, there's your sarcasm and anti-sonyism.
thisissami's Avatar
thisissami at 04/16/2007 12:55
"
This guy is in charge of Lair, a PS3 exclusive. He absolutely MUST say what he said. I would never listen to a guy working on an exclusive about how great that System is.

The thing I take away from this is the inherent bad news. Basically this guy is saying you can expect lots of PS3 games to make their way to the 360 but not vice versa. This is really bad for the PS3, and great for the 360. Why hasn't anyone noticed this? "




there are plenty of PS3 exclusive developers who say there mind about the PS3. there's the famous/infamous David Jaffe saying blu-ray was a mistake. there's Jason Rubin who's made ALL sorts of comments about the PS3, even though he's been with sony for most of his gaming career (and is probably making a PS3 game right now).. ever thought that it might be true that the PS3's processor is actually amazing? it has 3x the processor speed of the 360, and since it's 7 specific cores and one general core, as opposed to only 3 general cores, the PS3 probably has an even greater difference in speed. True, the 360 has better VRAM, but the PS3 also has 256 RAM of a different kind (except i've forgotten what that is, and therefore won't comment on it. don't know how it helps. but it adds up to 512, which is what the 360 has :P)

i don't know, the PS3 has always been known to be a much stronger machine than the 360... i think everybody here knows that... don't know how good the sixaxis is since i've never actually used one (at least not in a game like Lair or Warhawk) so I can't comment on that either. i don't think anybody else here should unless they've actually tried it...


and at Jamesways:


what that means is that you just have to keep in mind throughout the production of the game that the PS3 doesn't use 3 general cores like the 360, but different specifies cores. if you program it to work on the 360, you have to recode the thing to get it to work efficiently on the 360. if you code it with the PS3 in mind, it'll probably work just fine on the 360, since each general core can handle the different jobs of the PS3s cores, though it won't be as efficient (assuming the developer gets as much as they can out of the PS3). right now though there shouldn't be a difference between the two (at least not yet).
ace2132's Avatar
ace2132 at 04/16/2007 13:03
His tongue seems to be pretty deeply buried in there ass.
ace2132's Avatar
ace2132 at 04/16/2007 13:06
Also, just for the record, from what I understand the individual cores can only perform calculation, they cannot execute any code whatsoever, the main core thus is the bottleneck that will exist in performing operations.
subnet6's Avatar
subnet6 at 04/16/2007 13:07
@creamsnake,

"He's not talking about games that were entended to be "exclusives"

I think you're right, that wasn't his point, but based on what he said it would certainly seem to be the case whether that's what he meant or not. The PS3 is already losing some big exclusives. Now we can understand why this might be happening, because according to this guy, it's easy to take a PS3 game and move it to the 360 but not vice versa. As if that's not enough, i would guess that this one-way portability will only increase with time.'
subnet6's Avatar
subnet6 at 04/16/2007 13:14
@thisisami,

Jaffe can say what he wants because the success of God of War and God of War 2 has earned him that right. As for Rubin, I don't recall him working for Sony in the PS3 era so why wouldn't he bitch about it if he wanted to. Now, this Lair guy eggebrecht has a game on the verge, on the verge of greatness or overhyped failure, only time will tell. Unlike Jaffe who has a proven quantity on playstation, he can't dick around with the hand that feeds him. If Lair is a wild success and heir to the hottest sequel on the PS3, maybe then he'll feel free to speak his mind and have some more credibility. As long as he has a game in the pipeline that is unproven, his comments will be suspect. And please don't restart that tired 360 vs ps3 hardware debate. It will really put me to sleep. Until a game is done on either platform that can't be done on the other with little perceptible difference then the power is as good as equal. Nothing else matters but the games.
lAboMbA's Avatar
lAboMbA at 04/16/2007 13:14
i just can't wrap my head around the fact that this guy says how easy it is to port from the ps3 to the 360...even though he says that he never has ported to the 360 and doesn't have to worry about porting to the 360. I mean, i understand the technical jargon, but like it was stated before...that's simply because the xbox 360 is easier to develop for in the first place.

its like building a small house...then building a large house to encase the smaller house...then saying, hell no problem if you'd rather have the smaller house...i'll just tear down the larger house and you can have the existing smaller house.
Mxyzptlk's Avatar
Mxyzptlk at 04/16/2007 13:18
@ B-Radicate:

Actually, I've been hearing the opposite. Several previews I've read have said this is a PS3 game where the motion control actually works very well, especially since they took it out for on-foot parts. And I've also heard that the Warhawk beta currently going around is a blast. Any DToid writers had an opportunity to check that out yet?

So is Factor 5 pretty much officially a Sony second party now?
DrXym's Avatar
DrXym at 04/16/2007 13:21
Comments about 256Mb are pretty idiotic especially attached to this article. The PS3 has 512Mb even if it is segmented to give the GPU optimal access to one half. If Lair which has MASSIVE levels and thousands of assets can work within the PS3 memory architecture that it really isn't an issue except to the most feverish 360 fanboy.

Likewise comments that he "has to say the PS3 is good". No he doesn't. The guy could have emitted stock market-speak answers but instead he goes into a fair amount of detail why he likes the system.
Creamsnake's Avatar
Creamsnake at 04/16/2007 13:30
@brad drac: If bias were equal for all parties, would it really be bias? (I got a million of 'em... HA-CHA-CHA-CHA-CHA!)

@plkrtn: 3/4 of ALL console games in development for 360 and NOT PS3... Does that include the Wii and the PS2? Can I see some documentation on that? LOL
908peruvian's Avatar
908peruvian at 04/16/2007 13:43
i would've believed some of this but then i
saw those Lair pics in the other post...

THE END
Creamsnake's Avatar
Creamsnake at 04/16/2007 13:53
@subnet6:

Okay, I gotcha. I guess then it remains to be seen how many exclusives will be "timed" and how much that really hurts/helps certain consoles.

I don't own any of the real big name franchises for my PS2 so I obviously have no grasp of what this all means.

Obscure game fetishists like me seem to be the extreme minority so you're most likely correct.
walrusbrown's Avatar
walrusbrown at 04/16/2007 14:42
"ign tore them apart on the sixaxis controls from what i recall."

Um. No? http://ps3.ign.com/articles/780/780120p2.html

IGN basically had a very small gripe about the 180 turning control. The rest of their preview is quite positive. The 1UP crew also seems to like it. Yes, this interview is totaly and utter ass-kissing, but most of the hands-on previews I've read have been on the positive side of things.

And yeah, I'm hearing good things about Warhawk too.

I just think we should probably wait to see how the game actually plays before writing it off.

But yes, ass-kissing all over this interview.
Namelessted's Avatar
Namelessted at 04/16/2007 16:30
I think when a developer tells you that the PS3 has "limitless power" you should laugh at them. its ok to say jokingly, but seriously it is an absolute lie. The PS3 has a definite limit on what it can and cannot do. It has exact spec on CPU, GPU, bluray drive, RAM. everything thing in it has a limit. where that boundary is may not be aparent just yet, but it is there.

Unless Sony developed hardware that grows as time goes on where in two years it will magically have twice the RAM and 6 more SPUs in the Cell Processor, the PS3 has a definite limit. Saying such things is just silly.
Kalakaua's Avatar
Kalakaua at 04/16/2007 18:54
Was it not the *vision* that the cell could link with other cell chips (Like in a TV), form voltron and become super cell?

It can grow! I dunno.

All I know is that I wanna play the hell out of this game though. All they needed to say was, Dragons. Me: "I'm Sold!"
Magesx's Avatar
Magesx at 04/16/2007 23:15
The Destructoid Community: Fanboys Claiming that They Aren't Really Fanboys.
Im OK's Avatar
Im OK at 04/17/2007 01:14
See now, this is exactly the kind of bullshit I was talking about when it comes to Summa and Sony.
Im OK's Avatar
Im OK at 04/17/2007 01:23
@Magesx

Robert Summa: A Fanboy Claiming That He Isn't Really A Fanboy.
John Martone's Avatar
John Martone at 04/17/2007 01:29
*runs and hides from the scary people*
Why can't we all just be friends?
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