surf dtoid with 
Rising (10+)
People you follow
If you can't handle the crunch gtfo. Shouldn't be doing it IMO, but if you did contribute then you definately deserve recognition for your work. However small that contribution is.
@PhilK3nS3bb3n
There has to be a line though. I've worked with a few companies, and have had some pretty long crunch times. It really hurts a person. It's not about whether you can handle it or not. It really hurts you physically and emotionally. If you have a family it's 50 times worse. But we all do it because we love it. But there needs to be recognition there, and not just credits. At the companies I worked at, dinner was bought every night. 1 of the companies closed the studio for a week, and didn't count it against our PTO. The same company then paid us out on the PTO we had left ( because we couldn't use it, I had almost 100 hours of PTO ).
At least in those circumstances, I was given something for all the hardwork and missed family times. Working in the industry is awesome, I love it, but that doesn't mean I should just accept working 100 hour weeks, not get anything out of it and shut up. That's just ignorance and with an attitude like that, working in the game industry is never going to get better.
There has to be a line though. I've worked with a few companies, and have had some pretty long crunch times. It really hurts a person. It's not about whether you can handle it or not. It really hurts you physically and emotionally. If you have a family it's 50 times worse. But we all do it because we love it. But there needs to be recognition there, and not just credits. At the companies I worked at, dinner was bought every night. 1 of the companies closed the studio for a week, and didn't count it against our PTO. The same company then paid us out on the PTO we had left ( because we couldn't use it, I had almost 100 hours of PTO ).
At least in those circumstances, I was given something for all the hardwork and missed family times. Working in the industry is awesome, I love it, but that doesn't mean I should just accept working 100 hour weeks, not get anything out of it and shut up. That's just ignorance and with an attitude like that, working in the game industry is never going to get better.
Phil- it's that attitude that facilitates this kind of shit. Most 'inevitable' crunch can be chalked up to piss poor planning. Not everyone in the industry has to crunch for years at a time, the bar should be raised.
@thebill: I've been in similar situations, but we've always known it was coming. Hence my gtfo. I do agree there has to be a line between crunch and abuse. I've worked on the abuse side far to often.
Yeah, I've thought about looking into going this route with my life a few times now and everytime I peek around I'm sharply reminded why I decided not to do it in the first place. Which, to be honest, is really why it's sad when a game studio is closing, because those people just lost their jobs for what? Public or Business whim and fancy, after putting all that time and frustration in? There has to be something rewarding in it somewhere, but honestly you never really hear about it truthfully.
And no, I don't believe "its great to see your game sell well, go to number 1, or get great reviews" is an actual answer to that. That's good for the publisher, and sure the studio to keep the devs working, but I have a hard time believing that's a big reward for that list of people who gave up their families and lives for months at a time over the course of a year(s) JUST because some dude somewhere needed his monthly dose of fist bumping (or whatever)and will just end up forgetting the game in 4-6 months.
And no, I don't believe "its great to see your game sell well, go to number 1, or get great reviews" is an actual answer to that. That's good for the publisher, and sure the studio to keep the devs working, but I have a hard time believing that's a big reward for that list of people who gave up their families and lives for months at a time over the course of a year(s) JUST because some dude somewhere needed his monthly dose of fist bumping (or whatever)and will just end up forgetting the game in 4-6 months.
At the same time I understand why rockstar didn't want to include them in the credits. If I reading this correct, it sounds like these folks quit at the most crucial time of development. If I was one of the devs who stuck it out I wouldn't want their names HR mine.
Also @thebill: damn sounds like they took care of you all too! I wasn't trying to say accept the abuse and shut up, I was trying to say long hours an crunch times are a known factor and if you cant accept that....
Which just makes it even more unacceptable that Rockstar put an "eye of sauron" joke in the opening credits of LA Noire. If this was anyone else but Rockstar, this would be a huge story, and people would stop making excuses for their shitty treatment of workers.
@Phil
I see what you are saying. Def, if you are going to work in this industry, crunch time happens. Either by piss poor planning, or hey...sometimes shit just happens. It is what it is, and if you are the type of person that likes to show up to work at 9am, and leave right at 5pm, this is not the industry for you.
But at the same time, companies shouldn't abuse the fact that we are ok with crunch. If we are willing to put forth the extra time and sacrifice our families, the company needs to be willing to thank us for it. It goes both ways.
I see what you are saying. Def, if you are going to work in this industry, crunch time happens. Either by piss poor planning, or hey...sometimes shit just happens. It is what it is, and if you are the type of person that likes to show up to work at 9am, and leave right at 5pm, this is not the industry for you.
But at the same time, companies shouldn't abuse the fact that we are ok with crunch. If we are willing to put forth the extra time and sacrifice our families, the company needs to be willing to thank us for it. It goes both ways.
As I said last time this was posted: Get used to it. The tech industry doesn't credit anyone, let alone people who left the company.
The point of "credits" is to credit the people who built the product, regardless of employment status. Otherwise, the game is crediting the current employees with work that wasn't done by them. You see how it goes both ways? Personally, they should ditch credits altogether. It's just a stupid Hollywood-ism that's not necessary.
And one other point, leaving a development house isn't an indication of not being able to "take the heat" (which is pure nonsense, btw). It could be a gazillion different reasons that have nothing to do with the project (ie, a sick child, moving for unexpected reasons, birth, death, etc - you get the point). Although why you would even want to work for someone who would grind you into dust is another question all together.
And one other point, leaving a development house isn't an indication of not being able to "take the heat" (which is pure nonsense, btw). It could be a gazillion different reasons that have nothing to do with the project (ie, a sick child, moving for unexpected reasons, birth, death, etc - you get the point). Although why you would even want to work for someone who would grind you into dust is another question all together.
In Jim's defenses he was probably busy being snarky somewhere when Nick originally posted the story.
"In Jims Defense, he was probably busy being an irrational asshole about something when Nick originally posted the story" FTFY
This goes along with those reports that Rockstar has imposed the "Chinese sweatshop" method of game-making. Good on those devs for getting the hell out of there and shame on Rockstar and Team Bondi for creating such shitty conditions for developers, I hope Saints Row 3 kicks the shit out of GTA5 in sales.
This goes along with those reports that Rockstar has imposed the "Chinese sweatshop" method of game-making. Good on those devs for getting the hell out of there and shame on Rockstar and Team Bondi for creating such shitty conditions for developers, I hope Saints Row 3 kicks the shit out of GTA5 in sales.
I'd be pissed too if I were in their shoes, but it sounds like they were aware of the terms of their departure at the time. Is this really what they want their image to be? I understand wanting credit for your work; it's important for future jobs, but do you really want your next employer to see that you quit a company in crunch, then went online to complain about it when the game did well?
@Scowlface
If a developer isn't able to pulloff a proper time table and instead rides his workers to insanity, he should at least aknowledge that and credit his workers. Even if they leave, as it's not about a "we don't give a shit"-attitude. I bet all of them didn't leave easy, as barely anybody works in this industry for the money. Also blackmailing your workers with leaving them out of credits is a really disgusting way of saying "we don't care what you think."
Besides i have my personal missing-credits-story with cockstar. The business is brutal and they have no problem going the dirty way, even if they don't have to.
If a developer isn't able to pulloff a proper time table and instead rides his workers to insanity, he should at least aknowledge that and credit his workers. Even if they leave, as it's not about a "we don't give a shit"-attitude. I bet all of them didn't leave easy, as barely anybody works in this industry for the money. Also blackmailing your workers with leaving them out of credits is a really disgusting way of saying "we don't care what you think."
Besides i have my personal missing-credits-story with cockstar. The business is brutal and they have no problem going the dirty way, even if they don't have to.
follow
