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"In any case, this is yet another case of a studio that makes a successful game while still finding itself up shit creek."
I get the feeling that the game underperformed somewhat relative to expectations. Sure, it did fine, but this basically had a super-group behind it. I think people were planning for a bigger response.
On top of this, it seems like 38 Studios has no idea what it's doing. They also bought Big Huge Games (the -actual- developer of Amalur) without really developing anything themselves. Sure, the Amalur MMO is still in progress, but I haven't seen anything of it besides rumors. 38 Studios just seems badly managed.
Additionally, we all know the MMO will fail. Pretty much no matter what. This ain't looking good for 38. Hopefully, Big Huge Games stays together, but I'm not holding my breath for 38.
I get the feeling that the game underperformed somewhat relative to expectations. Sure, it did fine, but this basically had a super-group behind it. I think people were planning for a bigger response.
On top of this, it seems like 38 Studios has no idea what it's doing. They also bought Big Huge Games (the -actual- developer of Amalur) without really developing anything themselves. Sure, the Amalur MMO is still in progress, but I haven't seen anything of it besides rumors. 38 Studios just seems badly managed.
Additionally, we all know the MMO will fail. Pretty much no matter what. This ain't looking good for 38. Hopefully, Big Huge Games stays together, but I'm not holding my breath for 38.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curt_Schilling - Oddly enough, this guy is the CEO. Former baseball player gets into selling RPGs?
Yeah i dont think that a MMO will help their finances in anyway... or are we all wrong about this?
Is there a write up anywhere that shows what MMO´s has actualy failed and succeded ever since the WoW dynasty began?
Is there a write up anywhere that shows what MMO´s has actualy failed and succeded ever since the WoW dynasty began?
"We're off on the road to Rhode Island/Where we've got a lot of loans to repay/We'll end up avoiding debt collectors and staff back pay/And if we're really smart we'll change names to keep the creditors at bay! Hey!"
I'm sorry, the elements of the gag were there and I took a cheap shot. It's done, let's move on from this.
How does a successful game miss a loan payment?
They should hold off on the MMO and pay their fucking bills!
They should hold off on the MMO and pay their fucking bills!
Of course EA would consider it a success.
A brand new IP that they will soon own while having to pay only pennies on the dollar to get it.
A brand new IP that they will soon own while having to pay only pennies on the dollar to get it.
Bribing companies with loans or tax favors to cross state lines is a less-than-zero sum game. It doesn't add one single job. It just pits states and even cities against one another, forcing them to forego revenue or make risky investments of taxpayer money, in order to get a bigger slice of a finite pie.
$75M to a startup company run by a fledgling CEO who has no business savy beyond throwing a baseball... What did RI expect? And now they're making an MMO, possibly the best way to lose money.
Very disappointing. I really enjoyed KoA and was looking forward to more out of 38 and Big Huge Games. Plus, as a new Englander, I want to see our studios flourish. Hopefully they can pull themselves out of this mess.
$75 million for a goddamn video game studio? I could see maybe a car factory or something, but is a little studio really going to bring in that many jobs?
"So tax payers are screwed... and EA is making money? Something is seriously wrong here."
Actually, that sounds like the natural order of things.
Actually, that sounds like the natural order of things.
The whole thing is disappointing and highly concerning.
So they took out a massive loan from the state, looks like they might well default. Which leaves the tax payers somehow responsible for repaying that loan (I certainly wish I could take a loan from the bank flip them the bird and have the bank repay its own loan)..... Meanwhile EA is probably going to walk away with the KoA IP and a mostly completed MMO paid for by the tax payers and EA will likely pay pennies on the dollar for it.
I think one of the things I personally find most concerning is that it seems 38studios didn't really have a game, from all accounts it sounds like they took that loan and just bought another studio that actually did....
Come on people why so srs? its just video games!
If it does come to that bleak future I really hope there are enough investigations, fines, levies and jail time to spread around.
So they took out a massive loan from the state, looks like they might well default. Which leaves the tax payers somehow responsible for repaying that loan (I certainly wish I could take a loan from the bank flip them the bird and have the bank repay its own loan)..... Meanwhile EA is probably going to walk away with the KoA IP and a mostly completed MMO paid for by the tax payers and EA will likely pay pennies on the dollar for it.
I think one of the things I personally find most concerning is that it seems 38studios didn't really have a game, from all accounts it sounds like they took that loan and just bought another studio that actually did....
Come on people why so srs? its just video games!
If it does come to that bleak future I really hope there are enough investigations, fines, levies and jail time to spread around.
Recently beat the game. For such a pedigree of creative minds behind it, I found the whole game kinda underwhelming. Certainly a pleasant time sink but I can see why it didn't sell like gang busters. I don't think an Amular MMO is really needed, especially with how similar the art style was to World of Warcraft and the fact that the Elder Scrolls world is apparently becoming an MMO as well.
I hope they make another game, I'd like to see what the company could do with the lessons learned from this one, but that doesn't seem very likely at this point.
I hope they make another game, I'd like to see what the company could do with the lessons learned from this one, but that doesn't seem very likely at this point.
turn that worthless MMO game into a console CO-op game. that will make tons more money than a stupid fuckin MMO no one cares to play for more than a month or 2. why do these developers keep sinking so much time into MMOS when they rarely ever work? or even make money, since everyone of them turns to free 2 play eventually anyway.
"or even make money, since everyone of them turns to free 2 play eventually anyway."
To be fair, I think a lot of the F2P ones actually make money.
To be fair, I think a lot of the F2P ones actually make money.
@Occams: As much as I loved the game, I have to agree that it was underwhelming in some respects. The story and character development was less compelling than what I expected from a game associated with RA Salvatore. However, the extra history in the guide for the game was really fascinating, so I was really hoping that they would make a second game in this universe (non MMO) focusing more on the lore and characters of the world. Otherwise I was very taken with the landscape and combat in the game.
I hope they pull something out of their asses. KoA was a great start and I'd like to see them build on that.
Maybe EA will help pay off the cost if 38 Studios has to default.
Maybe they'll also send app their employees to hand $100 bills while riding an armada of flying pigs.
Maybe they'll also send app their employees to hand $100 bills while riding an armada of flying pigs.
I'm confused. Studio 38's monthly payment is 1.25 million on a 75 million dollar loan? Did they receive a check for 75 million, or is most of that money in "tax breaks"?
Remember, people on the left HATE Curt Shilling because he leans right on many political issues. They WANT him to fail.
Jim Sterling understands full well that EA is the publisher and is not responsible for Studio 38's debt. But, EA is an easy target, and so he can show everyone what a wonderful caring person he is by bashing them. "Look at what a great guy I am! I'm bad-mouthing this huge corporation! So what if they have nothing to with it, they're successful at what they do, so people should hate them."
Curt Shilling is a fan of video games and believed he could make a great game. The passion, the drive, the commitment... all the things it takes to build a game from the ground up. Dreaming of making a game and actually doing it are two different things. Most people are happy to do nothing but bad-mouth everyone who goes out there and "makes things happen". It's easy to sit on your fat-ass and say, this sucks, that sucks, everything should be free..." all the things that angry, uninformed people who take technology for granted, love to hear.
Anyone who has a dream, then goes out, hires 200 of the best people in the business and says, "Let's build something to compete with Blizzard!" has my respect. I don't care what his politics are.
Remember, people on the left HATE Curt Shilling because he leans right on many political issues. They WANT him to fail.
Jim Sterling understands full well that EA is the publisher and is not responsible for Studio 38's debt. But, EA is an easy target, and so he can show everyone what a wonderful caring person he is by bashing them. "Look at what a great guy I am! I'm bad-mouthing this huge corporation! So what if they have nothing to with it, they're successful at what they do, so people should hate them."
Curt Shilling is a fan of video games and believed he could make a great game. The passion, the drive, the commitment... all the things it takes to build a game from the ground up. Dreaming of making a game and actually doing it are two different things. Most people are happy to do nothing but bad-mouth everyone who goes out there and "makes things happen". It's easy to sit on your fat-ass and say, this sucks, that sucks, everything should be free..." all the things that angry, uninformed people who take technology for granted, love to hear.
Anyone who has a dream, then goes out, hires 200 of the best people in the business and says, "Let's build something to compete with Blizzard!" has my respect. I don't care what his politics are.
@MozartFX: Uhhhh, where the hell did that come from? You bash people for hating on Curt Shilling because of his politics (that nobody brought up, by the way) and THEN start bashing Jim because of his views on EA with absolutely no logical transition whatsoever.
Jim's point was that, if a studio can somehow make what a major publisher like EA considers to be a hit but still be in massive debt, there is something wrong with the industry. The fact that he isn't laying it at the feet of Mr. Shilling's management of the situation instead of the industry makes your complaints even more nonsensical.
Jim's point was that, if a studio can somehow make what a major publisher like EA considers to be a hit but still be in massive debt, there is something wrong with the industry. The fact that he isn't laying it at the feet of Mr. Shilling's management of the situation instead of the industry makes your complaints even more nonsensical.
@MozartFX: However, thanks for tipping me off about Mr. Schilling's politics. It prompted me to google him and discover that he is against gay marriage. I will no longer be purchasing any game made by 38 Studios (not that it looks like there will be much chance to do so anyway).
KoA was and is a better game in its genre then the steaming turd Activision Blizzard is passing off as "Diablo III".
KoA was and is a better game in its genre then the steaming turd Activision Blizzard is passing off as "Diablo III".
For the amount of money they borrowed and now owe the RI Gov't, you have to see more than under half-million copies.
I day oned because of the demo and honestly, despite the conbat system, everything about the game was lackluster. From the characters to the story.
Whole thing seemed phoned in.
Whole thing seemed phoned in.
I have honestly been struggling to get into any more Tolkien-style worlds. The fantasy setting in Kingdom of Amalur seemed lackluster because of this. For all I know, it could be an amazing game, but I just could not bring myself to purchase it. Everyone I have talked to said it was a great in-between game, but just that.
And a KoA MMO? No way. When will these developers realize the amount of tending it takes to not only create an MMO, but sustain a community. Blizzard was riding on their previous successes and had literally suspended all other game projects to develop and tend WoW. They admittedly took a risk, but they had the time and funds to do so. These developers (and often, publishers) do not realize the amount of stars aligning is necessary to create a MMO people want to play. Not only do you have to concern yourself with the gameplay, the content, the balance, etc., but you have to be able to keep growing to generate a player base. It is serious work. Now, with the introduction of F2P models, you have to really ask whether you can sustain off a F2P model or if a subscription based model is feasible.
And a KoA MMO? No way. When will these developers realize the amount of tending it takes to not only create an MMO, but sustain a community. Blizzard was riding on their previous successes and had literally suspended all other game projects to develop and tend WoW. They admittedly took a risk, but they had the time and funds to do so. These developers (and often, publishers) do not realize the amount of stars aligning is necessary to create a MMO people want to play. Not only do you have to concern yourself with the gameplay, the content, the balance, etc., but you have to be able to keep growing to generate a player base. It is serious work. Now, with the introduction of F2P models, you have to really ask whether you can sustain off a F2P model or if a subscription based model is feasible.
Perhaps Rhode Island can take the IP as payment?
Step 1 - Take IP/Screw EA
Step 2 - ???
Step 3 - PROFIT!
Step 1 - Take IP/Screw EA
Step 2 - ???
Step 3 - PROFIT!
and most f2p games became that way BECAUSE they couldnt make enough money off of them in the first place.
What in the fuck? Bullshit, put leins on everything belonging to everyone involved and put these guys to the stake! Now we have to spend 75 mil in tax dollars because people dont want to pay thier bills? Whoever approved this in the first place should be tried for treason.
While the industry is a demented on, 38 Studios is not a good example of this. They do not find themselves up shit creek because of Reckoning or the expenses relating to that game. The picked up Big Huge Studios who already had a mostly finished product, and had them make changes to the game to fall in line with the creative vision they had for their MMO.
They've been working on their MMO for many years without releasing or even having a stable enough product to even demonstrate, not to mention that the odds of their MMO being successful are against them. Reckoning being a success only bought them time, but Reckoning can't overcome years of throwing money into a pit without anything to show for it.
It doesn't matter what industry it is, poor management and spending millions of dollars without a product to show for it after 5+ years is going to = shit creek - paddle.
Same with EA profiting off of Reckoning. I mean fuck EA for the stupid shit they do, but the 38 Studios loan agreement has nothing to do with their contract with a publisher.
They've been working on their MMO for many years without releasing or even having a stable enough product to even demonstrate, not to mention that the odds of their MMO being successful are against them. Reckoning being a success only bought them time, but Reckoning can't overcome years of throwing money into a pit without anything to show for it.
It doesn't matter what industry it is, poor management and spending millions of dollars without a product to show for it after 5+ years is going to = shit creek - paddle.
Same with EA profiting off of Reckoning. I mean fuck EA for the stupid shit they do, but the 38 Studios loan agreement has nothing to do with their contract with a publisher.
Something is very wrong. Between Schilling, McFarlane, and Salvatore, they could easily come up with 1.75 million. I'm not saying they should, Seems EA is again pillaging a developer while trying to kill an IP. If this studio goes under, it's not because they couldn't save it, it's because they let it go under
EA is the new Cain Bapital. Also, Kingdoms of Amalur did nothing for me. But it sucks to see game devs go down like this.
@molamolacolacake I really enjoyed the combat. Would like to see it smoothed out a bit. Unbreakable animations were annoying and that pause in between dodges became problematic when fighting multiple sorcerers. Loooooved wielding chakras. Tucked my shit between my legs and lived out my Xena fantasies with that.
I had high hopes for a new interesting ip with neat combat and preordered the game but all i got for my bucks was a boring dribble of typical fantasytropes with not 1 interesting character boring story and a dead world. even the combat was dreadfully imbalanced and easy on hard besides undodgable magic attacks.
really if they think they can sustain a mmo on such an utterly boring and uninspired ip they seem to have lost a few braincells along the way. even wow has a more interesting, if sometimes pretty corny world to it.
its sad for the employees but really at this rate they will keel over anyway
really if they think they can sustain a mmo on such an utterly boring and uninspired ip they seem to have lost a few braincells along the way. even wow has a more interesting, if sometimes pretty corny world to it.
its sad for the employees but really at this rate they will keel over anyway
$112.6 million by the year 2020? Oh no! Thats $14 million a year for a state that made over $3 BILLION in tourism ALONE in 2000 and tourism isn't even the state's top industry!
Yeah, losing taxpayer money always sucks but thats part of running a government investing. You win a few, you lose most; cause the private sector doesn't have the guts to make seemingly hopeless long-term investments.
Yeah, losing taxpayer money always sucks but thats part of running a government investing. You win a few, you lose most; cause the private sector doesn't have the guts to make seemingly hopeless long-term investments.
@Mozart
Hilarious to see such a supreme intellect as yourself going on about "angry, uninformed people".
Please help us senseless masses understand the great gospel!
Pathetic 0/10
Hilarious to see such a supreme intellect as yourself going on about "angry, uninformed people".
Please help us senseless masses understand the great gospel!
Pathetic 0/10
@Maniac
No the issue here, the issue being in fact that a small group of individuals (all things considered) just took the public for a huge ride because they decided "fuck that, im not paying that bill, yeah im HEAVILY involved but here's this scapegoat. We cool bro?"
Meanwhile, here in reality this situation appears regulary, know what happens? it sure doesn't get setteled out of tax payer dollars thats for sure.
If your ok with how this plays out then grab your check book, cause have I got a deal for you!
No the issue here, the issue being in fact that a small group of individuals (all things considered) just took the public for a huge ride because they decided "fuck that, im not paying that bill, yeah im HEAVILY involved but here's this scapegoat. We cool bro?"
Meanwhile, here in reality this situation appears regulary, know what happens? it sure doesn't get setteled out of tax payer dollars thats for sure.
If your ok with how this plays out then grab your check book, cause have I got a deal for you!
"Anyone who has a dream, then goes out, hires 200 of the best people in the business and says, "Let's build something to compete with Blizzard!" has my respect. I don't care what his politics are."
Let me fix this for you:
Anyone who has a dream, then goes out, borrows $75 million from the government and says, "Let's buy another developer and re-brand their game as our own!" has my respect. I obviously care what his politics are, as I brought them up when nobody else did.
Let me fix this for you:
Anyone who has a dream, then goes out, borrows $75 million from the government and says, "Let's buy another developer and re-brand their game as our own!" has my respect. I obviously care what his politics are, as I brought them up when nobody else did.
The problem is why did 38 make such an expensive move in the first place? They had no games at all under their belt. They should have waited and got the game out before attempting to move. If they had stayed in Mass they might have avoided this.
While it is true that publishers often hose the studios by taking so much of the profit, that is not an excuse. If anything, that should have been a warning to keep spending down and stay in Mass and not take any crazy chances.
While it is true that publishers often hose the studios by taking so much of the profit, that is not an excuse. If anything, that should have been a warning to keep spending down and stay in Mass and not take any crazy chances.
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