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it's actually rather hilarious given the fact that Rhode Island wanted to have this dev so they "persuaded" them with those 75mln$ so they could reside on their land and create new jobs. 38 Studios gone on a buying and hiring spree and now they're going out of business and Rhode Island is going to have to pay those 75mln$ back.
Just another sideshow in the circus the industry has become.
I went to the circus once, Ringling Bros., and there was a midget with a bucket full of salt following the animals around and scooping their respective dookies.
I went to the circus once, Ringling Bros., and there was a midget with a bucket full of salt following the animals around and scooping their respective dookies.
And EA isn't going to offer any help? Maybe be smart and do a "sale to save the devs" kind of thing?
Bummer. Those employees are probably none too happy right now. Guess they should have made an fps with a full multiplayer suite.
If EA was a better publisher this kind of thing wouldn't happen. YOur supposed to nurture your development staff and make sure they have what they need. Don't get me wrong Rockstar messed this up too with Team Bondi but it seemed like that was more about animosity between higher ups. This just seems like sloppiness.
@Vitamin Shoe
Oh yeah cause those are immune to crashing and burning right? haha
I'm glad to be one of (apparently) very few people who really liked KoA a lot, its a fantastic game overall and more people should have given it a chance. It'll be a real shame if its the first and last title the studio puts out.
Oh yeah cause those are immune to crashing and burning right? haha
I'm glad to be one of (apparently) very few people who really liked KoA a lot, its a fantastic game overall and more people should have given it a chance. It'll be a real shame if its the first and last title the studio puts out.
Game sells .5 million copies. EA gets all the money. Game studio goes under.
Problem, traditional publishers?
Problem, traditional publishers?
$75 MILLION in a Rhode Island loan? I guess I've been misguided, I always thought that the game's publishers (part of which is EA here) were responsible for the cost of development, advertising, and what not. Thats crazy
Funny how EA loves to gobble up these companies and stands up there shouting how proud they are to work with them and have them aboard but when the crap hits the fan they don't seem to care enough to help them. I bet EA got every bit of its money from the Kingdom of Amalur.
This game is still on my backlog of "to buy" but I may have to go ahead and purchase it and all of the DLC soon out of respect. I loved the demo. Nice mix of Fable, Dragon Age and a lot of other fun RPGs. Hope they don't go under already...maybe Curt can go pitch another couple seasons for the Sox and make the money.
This game is still on my backlog of "to buy" but I may have to go ahead and purchase it and all of the DLC soon out of respect. I loved the demo. Nice mix of Fable, Dragon Age and a lot of other fun RPGs. Hope they don't go under already...maybe Curt can go pitch another couple seasons for the Sox and make the money.
Thats the problem when you only release 1 game in 6 years. To say the least, I'm sure hiring R.A. Salvatore and Todd Macfarlane who have little do with gaming in the first place but probably commanded a premium for whatever their services were.
creating games, especially MMOs is very expensive.....but how on earth do you burn through 75 million in under 2 years??
You might be able to argue that they spent a large chunk of it on Kingdoms, but that game was largely developed (as I understand it) by Big Huge Games before 38 Studios bought them.
Also seems crazy that they would have to start repaying the loan before the game (MMO) was released...how would they be generating income until it's been released?
I guess they bet all their cards on Kingdoms doing well....too bad it didn't sell well at all (it's a decent game)
You might be able to argue that they spent a large chunk of it on Kingdoms, but that game was largely developed (as I understand it) by Big Huge Games before 38 Studios bought them.
Also seems crazy that they would have to start repaying the loan before the game (MMO) was released...how would they be generating income until it's been released?
I guess they bet all their cards on Kingdoms doing well....too bad it didn't sell well at all (it's a decent game)
@gothaggis
I know right. Seriously, you can't spend that much money and only move 400k copies. If they had made a multi-million seller, sure, this wouldn't even be a problem, but as it stands, there are zero prospects for this to end well for 38Studios.
I know right. Seriously, you can't spend that much money and only move 400k copies. If they had made a multi-million seller, sure, this wouldn't even be a problem, but as it stands, there are zero prospects for this to end well for 38Studios.
For everyone blaming EA, you do know that EA doesn't own them, right? It's not an issue of EA not taking care of them (EA just needs to make sure that they pay 38 according to the contract).
This is a very different situation than when a pub owns a dev.
This is a very different situation than when a pub owns a dev.
I guess what Im trying to say is that its hard to pin much of this on EA's head, they arent an internal EA studio and the vast majority of that loan went towards a MMO in development for 6 years that never saw the day of light, not Reckoning so much.
EA not owning the studio is beside the point, it's the fact they're leaving a partner hanging out to dry that's bothersome.
If anything, it's stories like this that prove the industry is not ready for next gen. Development costs are still too high, studios like this closing are becoming the norm.
If anything, it's stories like this that prove the industry is not ready for next gen. Development costs are still too high, studios like this closing are becoming the norm.
Ah so only in-house devs are handled like that, fair enough. Okay now I'm more interested in this unknown MMO. Who had the inflated salaries and contributed least to its development these past years? Even over 10 years, 7.5 mil a year is a bit much to burn through with no results.
those 75mln$ were to build and set up the studio, and create nearly 500 new jobs - the costs of hardware and salaries was definitely huge since they had over 300 staff and that doesn't even include temps. Assassins Creed team consists of 450 people but they spit those AC games left and right on yearly basis.
You can not blame EA for this. The game sold 560,000 copies world wide. For that kind of budget, its a flop. I big flop. The math is pretty simple of this one. After retail takes its cut, Microsoft/Sony/Steam take their cut, EA takes its cut, then what is left for the developer? At the most, the developer was getting 30 percent of each 50 dollar sale and that is only assuming EA didn't front them a ton of cash to finish the game. Then the percentage is way lower. In short its the consumers who didn't buy enough of the game to justify its massive budget and marketing push. And it was marketed quite well from what I remember. That's capitalism.
How did this all happen? I didnt like Amalur, but I dont see how it could have fucked them up so much considering that from anyone I ask its a great game that sold well(never seen any actual numbers though).
@EtosiGiR: I think they are EA Partners, so EA has no responsibility for their financial situation. That's the whole point of the system - you can keep your IPs, you can work more freely and EA will provide you with support in fields you cannot do alone, like worldwide distribution etc.
That's guesswork ofc, but seem reasonable, looking at other companies, that chose this path.
That's guesswork ofc, but seem reasonable, looking at other companies, that chose this path.
What's ridiculous is that Rhode Island approved a $75 million loan on the assumption that it would bring jobs to the state. Did no one point out to them how comparatively small game studios are and how unrealistic making back that money would be?
I'd like to remind you all that 38 basically bought Big Huge Games, which was working on a non-Amalur single-player RPG. They re-tooled that as Amalaur, but, otherwise, they've had precious little to do with KoA.
Meanwhile, they've been developing an MMO. Between those two things: 1. Buying a company to release a game, 2. Spending all other resources on a pipe-dream
I think it's pretty clear what happened here. Terrible leadership. No plan. Only release was from a bought developer.
Meanwhile, they've been developing an MMO. Between those two things: 1. Buying a company to release a game, 2. Spending all other resources on a pipe-dream
I think it's pretty clear what happened here. Terrible leadership. No plan. Only release was from a bought developer.
Amalure doesn't seem to be as much the problem as poor budgeting. Technically 38 Studios hasn't made a game they bought the developer that was making Amalure for an undisclosed amount of money.... My guess is Too Much. In my book that makes them a publisher or in this case attempted publisher. In any case IMHO Buying a developer/IP does not make you a Developer....
There is no Loyalty in the business world unless it is somehow beneficial to the company expressing the loyalty. So EA certainly isn't going to swoop in and save them.... They might swoop in and pick up the pieces.
I certainly feel for the people who aren't getting paid and for the people who will likely be losing their jobs. I also feel for the taxpayers of RI who are going to be left on the hook for paying off this IMHO ill conceived loan.
There is no Loyalty in the business world unless it is somehow beneficial to the company expressing the loyalty. So EA certainly isn't going to swoop in and save them.... They might swoop in and pick up the pieces.
I certainly feel for the people who aren't getting paid and for the people who will likely be losing their jobs. I also feel for the taxpayers of RI who are going to be left on the hook for paying off this IMHO ill conceived loan.
What happen to you Rhode Island you used to be cool?
I would rather man-whore myself instead of taking a loan from any government entity. There are alternative ways RI could rework the loan to 38 Studios, but with all the red tape and dummies working for the institution nothing will get done right.
I would rather man-whore myself instead of taking a loan from any government entity. There are alternative ways RI could rework the loan to 38 Studios, but with all the red tape and dummies working for the institution nothing will get done right.
The EA partners program is akin to taking a giant bite of a shit sandwich for the developers who have to turn to it. It is, was, and forever will be a well-intentioned initiative run by some of the most unwell-intentioned people in the industry.
But that doesn't make this EA's fault; rather they just continue to be the greedy assholes that they are while letting one of their 'partners' die on the vine.
I, personally, hope that 38 Studios/BHG can get through this with their IP intact and as many members of the team(s) as possible. Reckoning was a phenomenal 'first' release and it deserves a sequel.
But that doesn't make this EA's fault; rather they just continue to be the greedy assholes that they are while letting one of their 'partners' die on the vine.
I, personally, hope that 38 Studios/BHG can get through this with their IP intact and as many members of the team(s) as possible. Reckoning was a phenomenal 'first' release and it deserves a sequel.
So then what was the point of them selling their soul to the devil (i.e. EA)?
Also, the state of Rhode Island potentially owning a video game brand is slightly hilarious.
Also, the state of Rhode Island potentially owning a video game brand is slightly hilarious.
Problem here boils down to meh. The game was meh. It wasn't bad, it wasn't great. I played the demo, and while I really liked the art direction, after the demo I felt no need to keep playing. It just didn't have that "something" that makes you want to play, and therein lies the problem.
You can release meh in this day and age and expect to succeed unless your efficient, and we know they're, 38 studios, aren't. They behaved like some new sitcom back in the 90's.
Hell even their marketing reflected that. What were there? 2-3 special editions ranging from 90-250 dollars? Different boxes, pack-ins, schwag, etc all adding to cost and showing a stupid amount of arrogance regarding an unheard of IP. The companies problem is its management and direction, not its publisher.
EA does suck though.
You can release meh in this day and age and expect to succeed unless your efficient, and we know they're, 38 studios, aren't. They behaved like some new sitcom back in the 90's.
Hell even their marketing reflected that. What were there? 2-3 special editions ranging from 90-250 dollars? Different boxes, pack-ins, schwag, etc all adding to cost and showing a stupid amount of arrogance regarding an unheard of IP. The companies problem is its management and direction, not its publisher.
EA does suck though.
According to other reports (specifically the linked Joystiq article) I've seen, the RIEDC says that the check didn't bounce; rather the CFO called and told them not to cash it because it would bounce, so the RIEDC gave the check back. Still not good, of course. This is a very bad situation all around. It's starting to look like Rhode Island will the proud owner of the Amalur IP and get to auction it off to the highest bidder to try and cover as much of the debt as possible. A real shame.
This isn't the first time in the news that municipalities got bitten in the ass by trying to attract a tech sector by throwing money at MMO developers. That APB thing must have stung Scotland(?) pretty badly.
MMO's are notoriously expensive and have an extremely high failure rate, wtf do cities think they can do when even supposedly business saavy publishers fail.
They really need to start giving loans to unemployed programmers living in their parent's basement instead. Hell, if RI gave me even a 200k loan I'd move there and take on a few recent grads from local graphic design universities to get started on that Dungeon Keeper like game I've been thinking of. Can guarantee it won't sting as much if I fail.
MMO's are notoriously expensive and have an extremely high failure rate, wtf do cities think they can do when even supposedly business saavy publishers fail.
They really need to start giving loans to unemployed programmers living in their parent's basement instead. Hell, if RI gave me even a 200k loan I'd move there and take on a few recent grads from local graphic design universities to get started on that Dungeon Keeper like game I've been thinking of. Can guarantee it won't sting as much if I fail.
While Reckoning is a B-tier game it is also comparatively fantastic:
Bethesda can't release their RPGs without a massive amount of bugs nor have they been able to not fuck-up their last three PS3 versions.
BioWare is in freefall at best and in full-blown decline at worst when you look at things like Dragon Age II and Mass Effect 3. (ME3 also runs like shit on PS3 while DA2 is just plain shit)
Reckoning, on the other hand, runs well on all platforms and has so few bugs for a game of that style/nature that it's staggering. The combat is also a breath of fresh air in the RPG genre and absolutely obliterates offerings from other major RPG dev houses. (Bethesda especially as their combat has always been trash)
So yeah B-tier, mediocre...it's a solid 7 type of game. But what Reckoning does right it does better than most others and for it to be a new IP and what qualifies as a 'first' release...it's damn impressive.
Bethesda can't release their RPGs without a massive amount of bugs nor have they been able to not fuck-up their last three PS3 versions.
BioWare is in freefall at best and in full-blown decline at worst when you look at things like Dragon Age II and Mass Effect 3. (ME3 also runs like shit on PS3 while DA2 is just plain shit)
Reckoning, on the other hand, runs well on all platforms and has so few bugs for a game of that style/nature that it's staggering. The combat is also a breath of fresh air in the RPG genre and absolutely obliterates offerings from other major RPG dev houses. (Bethesda especially as their combat has always been trash)
So yeah B-tier, mediocre...it's a solid 7 type of game. But what Reckoning does right it does better than most others and for it to be a new IP and what qualifies as a 'first' release...it's damn impressive.
It is weird Rhode Island approved of 75 million dollar loan. I know a lot of people have chimed in to say roughly the same bit, but honestly, 75 million is hugeeee. What is stranger is that anyone would except such a loan. I mean, you would have to pay it back. What developer and/or publisher could still turn a profit after paying its own employees, paying for extra costs, and still pay back the loan? They would have had to sell like 1.25 million copies just to pay back the loan, not a massively impressive number, but still nothing to sneeze at for a relatively freshman developer. Plus that 1.25 million would just break even with the loans, that does not even include your own profits, and EA's profits. I mean that is just crazy sauce.
The only thing I hope is that this does not leave a bad taste in everyone's mouth in providing incentives to smaller game devs, but I do hope it creates a realistic projection for what incentives should be provided. I also hope all the people who worked on this can actually get a pay check. Nothing would be worse than to work your ass off and not see any money. I really, truly feel bad at that thought.
The only thing I hope is that this does not leave a bad taste in everyone's mouth in providing incentives to smaller game devs, but I do hope it creates a realistic projection for what incentives should be provided. I also hope all the people who worked on this can actually get a pay check. Nothing would be worse than to work your ass off and not see any money. I really, truly feel bad at that thought.
Hm. It's a shame. Amular certainly wasn't perfect but it was fun enough that I would give a sequel a shot with the hopes that they learned from their missteps with the first one. Wonder how much they paid McFarlane as I never once saw a character with a case of Spawn boot and was highly disappointed.
Just sad for the employees and the State of RI. They should of stuck with smaller projects.
http://www.boston.com/business/technology/articles/2012/05/18/high_risk_video_game_venture_has_rhode_island_curt_schilling_reeling/
http://www.boston.com/business/technology/articles/2012/05/18/high_risk_video_game_venture_has_rhode_island_curt_schilling_reeling/
How much has RI got in tax revenue from all the created jobs? How many were created? This just proves government should stay out of economic development and picking winners and losers. Perhaps they should do a bailout like for the banks. More citizens money down the drain. Besides this only shifted jobs from MA to RI. As a CPA I say if they cant make payroll there are probably behind on Federal and State taxes also. We will never know because its confidential.
I hope there is a solid accounting for how that $75m was spent.
If I were a citizen of Rhode Island I would suspect wholesale fraud.
Maybe it is not like giving a billion dollars to a "green" company who creates 50 jobs, but Rhode Island is a small state.
The $75m is probably lost and hopefully Rhode Islanders remember it in the next election.
Condolences to the regular employees not getting paid.
If I were a citizen of Rhode Island I would suspect wholesale fraud.
Maybe it is not like giving a billion dollars to a "green" company who creates 50 jobs, but Rhode Island is a small state.
The $75m is probably lost and hopefully Rhode Islanders remember it in the next election.
Condolences to the regular employees not getting paid.
Lol @ people not being able to spell Amalur.
Now seriously, I played the demo and found it as generic as it gets, riddled with enormous amounts of DLC. I'm not surprised it didn't sell all that well, even with the huge amount of marketing EA poured in (seriously, every freaking blog seemed to be talking about Amalur).
A shame for the employees, too :(
Now seriously, I played the demo and found it as generic as it gets, riddled with enormous amounts of DLC. I'm not surprised it didn't sell all that well, even with the huge amount of marketing EA poured in (seriously, every freaking blog seemed to be talking about Amalur).
A shame for the employees, too :(
As others have said, EA was simply the publisher and it's not their responsibility to rescue devs that may have mismanaged their money. In regards to the devs, I would be curious to see who exactly isn't getting paid. If it's the line workers only and the execs are all still getting paid, then I don't care if they go out of business. They would deserve to. Hopefully somewhere there is enough money to make sure that the regular employees that have no stake in the company get paid.
In any business, paying the employees should be the number one priority - over EVERYTHING else.
In any business, paying the employees should be the number one priority - over EVERYTHING else.
Running businesses ain't easy, folks. Maybe they should kickstarter Amalur 2 or the MMO. Or maybe they shouldn't still be charging 60 beans for the first game. It's been out, what... a week already?
I'm sure EA could snatch them up, hang the devs upside-down and leech their magatsuhi if they wanted to.
I'm sure EA could snatch them up, hang the devs upside-down and leech their magatsuhi if they wanted to.
Wow, it only sold 400k? Nearly everyone I know bought it (granted big huge games is like 5 miles from here so a lot of those people knew dev staff) but it seemed to be successful.
Yeah, I thought it was successful. Certainly got good enough reviews, and it was out 3 months after Skyrim so it's hard to blame that competition for poor sales.
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