If you're so insecure enough your beliefs that you can't stand to read about people who don't believe in whatever bullshit it is that you're yelling from the mountaintops, then you need to get the fuck off the internet.

Fuck your religion. I can say that if I want. Fuck. It. There is no God.

You know what? You're free to say "Fuck your non-religion. Fuck. It. There is a God."

See? It's easy. I don't get how people still get all worked up over this shit.

There is a God though. He loves you all. End.

I'll never understand why some people decide to do things because their God says that it's right or wrong.

@xollner: Because if every man relies exclusively on himself, a great many people would be listening to someone of below-average competency in any given matter.

Division of labor is a good technique because it saves people from having to constantly re-invent the wheel. Why would we view morality as some special field that needs to be uniquely developed by each human without outside assistance?

Think of it as learning a craft, or an art. You'll be more effective if you're taught the basics, rather than spending years trying to figure out things that other people already know.

"Because if every man relies exclusively on himself, a great many people would be listening to someone of below-average competency in any given matter."

Well, since we all haven't come to a consensus on morality, I'd say it's really a crapshot from one person to the other. I can go learn underwater basketweaving from one particular authority, because there's likely to only be a few known ways to achieve the desired result. With morality, it's anyone's guess.

But the LAST place I'd go to learn morality is from those whose "craft" is riddled with known corruption, hypocrisy, and whose instruction comes from a centuries-old book that is KNOWN to have been altered (or "revised").

What if someone just wrote "Morality for Dummies" tomorrow? It'd hold about the same relevance and exclusivity as the Bible has, and it'd probably be a hell of a lot more detailed and up-to-date.

Jim, that's certainly an understandable question, but it sets up a false dichotomy between being a religious person and a free-thinker. I see no evidence that the two need be mutually exclusive. Are there religious people who constantly question the order of things? Are there atheists who grapple longer with the lunch menu than with the mysteries of life?

As I've grown older, I've realized how much I have to take on faith, as much as I like to think that I'm an independent thinker with little need for faith. Virtually all of the high-level knowledge I've obtained was provided by someone else -- usually, I might add, someone I've never met. I didn't synthesize calculus in my bedroom, it was taught to me. As far as I know, Hitler did some bad stuff. I've seen enough evidence to be convinced, and I think evidence is ultimately what is at issue between religious and anti-religious people.

I think the two groups prioritize evidence very differently, in the same way that liberals and conservatives have similar moral values but differ greatly in the weight they ascribe to them. Essentially, anti-religious people seem to me to be empiricists. They greatly prefer evidence that can be seen and measured. However, there are many other types of evidence that humans rely on: testimony, logical conclusion, and even intuition. Religious people may be more likely to weight the evidence evenly, where empirical evidence may not automatically override testimony.

It's just a working theory, but I think it's what leads to especially virulent conflict between the two mindsets. Relying solely on empirical evidence requires a high level of self-assurance in order to assume that the evidence is being collected and interpreted properly. Evenly weighting other forms of evidence seems foolhardy to the empiricist, who sees no reason to believe things that cannot be seen or measured.

So in the end I'm not sure any of us qualify as truly free-thinkers; we are all beholden to some evidentiary bias. Pretending otherwise is where a temptation to hypocrisy has a chance to enter in.

I wouldn't advocate joining a religion that frowns upon honest questions asked by someone with thirst for knowledge who is seeking answers. That world constrains the mind overmuch. Nor would I advocate a faith that proclaims there is no god, and uses mockery as a tool to silence those who wonder otherwise. That too smacks of a closed mind.

MaxVest:

Awesome response, thank you.

Evidence is definitely at the core here. I know I don't come across this way, but I have a more open mind than people might think, and I am all for weighing up evidence and arriving at an informed conclusion. That, however, is where I come up short with regards to God and his existence. In order to weigh up the evidence, I need some evidence to begin weighing. So far I have found nothing tangible or compelling enough to get to grips with.

To me, it's equivalent to being offered a job by a man you've never met that promises to pay you, say, ten million dollars after fifteen years of service, but for those first fifteen you have to work for nothing. He also had a book that someone else wrote saying how trustworthy this man was. Most people would say that whoever took that job was crazy -- I'm willing to be a fair few religious people would be highly unlike to believe it either.

Again, this is something I am genuinely interested in talking about without causing a fight.

And just for record (again), I have nothing but respect for Jim. I understand that he mocks everything and nothing is sacred to him. That's certainly his decision to make, and I respect that. I would never endeavour to force anything on him or expect Christian behavior from him.

The only reason I tried to "correct" what he said (tongue-in-cheekly) in the article, was to try to bring a different perspective to something that a lot of people do think. I mean, I don't think I'm misguided in saying that non-Christians look at Christian beliefs quite incredulously. If I were on the other side of things, I'd like to hear someone calmly try to explain the wackiness to me in plain language, whether I agreed with it or not. I'm not an expert, obviously. I just thought I'd throw in my two cents, for those that care. And it's the internet and I do what I want! ;)

With MaxVest doing a lot of the heavy lifting, I don't feel I have too much to add to this conversation, so I'll just shut up and wait until my mouth won't stay shut anymore. :)

So in my mind if killing someone is honoring God then I'm cool?

Religion gets more irrelevant everyday.

I can't believe some people are still mocking God. Then there are some that says...... Who is God? First I am not a preecher, not that there is anything wrong with them. I am a Christian and don't like the way some people replied here!! O and I am not English and therefore could struggle a bit with spelling or words, but i think you'll still be able to understand me. I am Afrikaans though. To the people who do not believe in God:

What is the meaning of life to you? Is it just living it out, you know, live untill you die????? You really think there is no God??? Some even say the invisible man in the sky....

I can only pray that someday God will get through to you.... Just remember that God created us with free will, so its just obvious that youl have to choose for yourself whether to believe or not and give God a chance with you.

To be honest I do not have alot of hope left for the future. The future of the world. I mean todays kids just get worse and worse. Preschool kids are actually faced with adulthood thanks to tv, internet, cell fone, and everything else.

Then there is America..... But read to what i am writing. Look at the movies they bring out most of the time... This is the plot... Its a story about a guy.... He is a guy.... He is fucking alot of chicks.... He is so awesome..... He finds the girl he was waiting for his whole life..... He fucks her too..... Now he wants to marry her and live a happily ever after life.....

But what he dont know is that he married every chick he fucked through his life. So he got married.... got divorced.... got married....... got divorced....... got married....... got divorced. I just can't find the english word for the sin, but in afrikaans it is EGBREEK PLEEG.

Ok enough about America, o and i am not judging the people.. The people in America are great, though a bit of living in their own acting world...... Its just the image they give... Via TV.

O and to talk about the topic.... I am a good gamer, and there is no reason to think that killing in gaming is a sin. To be honest again.... Stupid topic. I like to kill pedestrians in GTA IV. Oh, and GTA IV is also a bad game to play.... too much sex, drugs, violence and hatred. Yes it is a game, i know, but to some children it could be a way they think the world is. And in the end, they do sex, violence, drugs.

Just bare with me.. I am not saying sex is a sin. It is something spiritually created and beautifull. But do it with one. Your wife or your husband.. For that is how God created it. Not for fucking every chick you see. That is disrespectfull to God. But then again, i am talking to people mostly who is actually living this way of sickness and disrespect.

I believe there is a God. Who loves even the sick. Who cares for all and who is looking after us even through our most diffucult times. Being a Christian does not give you a green card or protection against illness, pain or accidents. But it gives you hope and love, to go through those times.

Please dont get me wrong.... I am not this person who thinks alot about himself or who got everything he ever wanted. No, i am a broken person in many ways, ive been in depression the whole year, and are still struggling to get out of it. I am not rich, though i have enough so that i can eat well.

I know every one reading this would probably think "what a retard", or "what the hell is he talking about". But i hope that this message gets through to only one at least, maybe to think a bit differently or whatever. O and if here are any Americans, there is nothing wrong with you, i dont know you, i just dont like the message youre sending out to the world alot of times VIA MOVIES, MTV, etc. America as every one knows, is actually a continent every one is looking up to most of the time. Me instead. Not with everything, but there are some things we look up to. Just be good leaders, because if South Africa do something, nobody would care.... i am from South Africa:-). But when America does something, everybody knows about it. As i know, America is a Christian land, sorry for the poor english, so please citizens of the United States of America, help make the world better.... Bring movies out that insprires people more often in God. Not to say that you must stop developing King Kong and Transformers movies, or LOTR movies. Just stop developing shit that my kid one day will see. I can try to keep my child away from everything bad, but that wont help, because he has to face the bad one day..... Just dont make it diffucult for the future children of the world.

I am actaully going lol now. Thanks for wasting your time with this comment, but i do hope you found something of value in this personal opinion. Have a nice day.... final words.

I am 20, so that you dont feel a little child wrote this, and no remarks if it is possible, lol. Oh and for the bad language i used above.... Sorry, but there is no way putting it better... or actually there is, but then again, i wanted to put it that way,lol. See, FREE WILL. Easy, isn't it...

If turning a 0 to a 1 is a sin, we'd all be burned at the stake.

Jim, this was a really refreshing can of worms you opened up here. There was relatively little, as Mxyzptlk put it "ZOMG RELIGION IS FOR TARDS" and "ZOMG ATHEISM IS FOR TARDS". The responses here make me feel good about Dtoid.

If we want to take this line of thought further, consider the inescapable influence of language on structuring and filtering your perception of the world, how it abstracts you out of a constant stream of sensory input/reaction. Language creates a virtual reality for us all, which, when you think about, makes issues of spirituality and faith all the more interesting. To claim that you actually know something, really know, is a very bold statement, not mention claiming to Know the entire spiritual metaphysics of a universe. To say Yes there Is or No there Is Not are both, in my opinion, a wee bit presumptuous. I'm sticking with "i don't know" for now.

Also, I agree with you, if there is a god/s, its/they gotta love religious jokes.