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I love Lollipop Chainsaw but it's just arcade fun compared to No More Heroes. I have faith that Killer is Dead will be more like the former.
i don't know why people are hating on games suda was not the director.
i mean he DID write Lollipop Chainsaw and Shadows of the Damned(with Shinji Mikami) and it was one of the strong points of the game.
sure him directing would even be awesome but the games are definitely fucking awesome in it's own right.
Tomo Ikeda(Lollipop Chainsaw) and Massimo Guarini(Shadows of the Damned) them directing the game with the supervision of Suda 51 did a awesome job.
though i do wish the games were longer(but the replay value is there)
can't wait for this :P
i do hope Killer is Dead is being directed by Suda 51. i want to see a Killer 7 acid trip style :D
i mean he DID write Lollipop Chainsaw and Shadows of the Damned(with Shinji Mikami) and it was one of the strong points of the game.
sure him directing would even be awesome but the games are definitely fucking awesome in it's own right.
Tomo Ikeda(Lollipop Chainsaw) and Massimo Guarini(Shadows of the Damned) them directing the game with the supervision of Suda 51 did a awesome job.
though i do wish the games were longer(but the replay value is there)
can't wait for this :P
i do hope Killer is Dead is being directed by Suda 51. i want to see a Killer 7 acid trip style :D
I'm hoping it's the next title in the "Kill the Past" series with the budget and marketing of Lollipop Chainsaw.
I'm looking forward to this game, but I totally disagree with you. Lollipop Chainsaw was fuckin' rad.
You have a typo in the first sentence: "admit that Lollipop Chainsaw has't been my favorite". I am guessing you mean hasn't.
If it's yet another Grasshopper production that with mediocre gameplay that fetishizes violence in order to be ironic and artsy, I doubt I'll waste my time with it.
I'd really like to see another Suda51 where he goes crazy Killer7-style. But with better gameplay, obviously.
but yeah get rid of the Unreal Engine.
i know it's the cheapest and easy to develop but please get rid off that.
it will improve the game 40% for sure.
i know it's the cheapest and easy to develop but please get rid off that.
it will improve the game 40% for sure.
@PrinceHeir
How would it make the games better if they had to focus a lot more resources on engine development and a lot less on actually making the game?
How would it make the games better if they had to focus a lot more resources on engine development and a lot less on actually making the game?
A futuristic assassin game made by Suda 51 set in the environment from that picture? DO WANT!
I love NMH, even though I'm having trouble getting on with the sequel. But Shadow's of the Damned and Lollipop Chainsaw just didn't really appeal to me. They didn't really look like Suda games, more like games from people trying to copy him. Apparently he didn't really have as much input in to those games as NMH so I guess it makes sense.
I'd prefer Suda's games to have more thought put in to their insanity. Zombies, cheerleaders and penis guns aren't exactly the most... deep or esoteric of concepts. I know these games are supposed to have subtext under all that stuff, but it still puts me off. I think Yahtzee has a point when he says Suda's games are getting easier and easier to explain, and I think that's a bad thing.
I love NMH, even though I'm having trouble getting on with the sequel. But Shadow's of the Damned and Lollipop Chainsaw just didn't really appeal to me. They didn't really look like Suda games, more like games from people trying to copy him. Apparently he didn't really have as much input in to those games as NMH so I guess it makes sense.
I'd prefer Suda's games to have more thought put in to their insanity. Zombies, cheerleaders and penis guns aren't exactly the most... deep or esoteric of concepts. I know these games are supposed to have subtext under all that stuff, but it still puts me off. I think Yahtzee has a point when he says Suda's games are getting easier and easier to explain, and I think that's a bad thing.
@caramel
Some people just have no clue what they are talking about.
But now I'm curious, what's wrong with the unreal engine? You know, other than the fact that it didn't come from japan.
Some people just have no clue what they are talking about.
But now I'm curious, what's wrong with the unreal engine? You know, other than the fact that it didn't come from japan.
I want Suda 51 to make something truly thought provoking like Killer 7, or some of the more poignant moments in the NMH series. Yeah, make it over the top. Make it violent, gory, and ridiculous. Throw in some of the most fowl mouthed characters to ever feature in a game. But make it interesting too. Make it something people will talk about. That's something Killer 7 and NMH had that I really haven't seen in any of Grasshopper's games since. They've all been fun, but in an arcadey pulpy kinda way rather than in a punk art-house kinda way.
No More Heroes is my favorite Grasshopper game but I don't want another one, I didn't even buy the second one because I don't think it was going to be a shallow cash in. What made me want to fallow Grasshopper's (and Suda's) work was how completely different No More Heroes was from Killer 7, it showed that they weren't afraid to do mix things up and change how they approach design, narrative, and style unlike most mainstream devs who find success with one game and use that formula forever after that. Which is why I haven't been that interested in Grasshopper's most recent games. They seem to me like they a tiring to fit a formula of Suda Wackiness because they think that's the selling point of his games, and are missing the genuine soul that Killer 7 and No More Heroes have.
Here's hoping that Killer is Dead will something different.
Here's hoping that Killer is Dead will something different.
because I thought it was going to be a shallow cash in* sorry I guess my brain was movie faster then my fingers.
I don't know, I've always been more of a fan of his older work (Flower, Sun and Rain, Killer7, Contact, the first NMH). His last couple of games haven't been able to persuade me, let's hope this one can.
I'm like a lot of other people here, i havent seen a good game from Grasshopper since the NMH series. I cant imagine why Sterling gave Starling such a glowing review, maybe he got some kickback alone time with Jessica Nigri.
You mean that it is as dark and serious as Killer 7? Because, I'm hoping, the only inspiration NMH will be is the gameplay only. It's about time for Suda to get serious again.
Not to be "that guy", but I actually found Lollipop Chainsaw to be perfect, and I don't say that about games very often... It really blew my mind, and stood out from the plethora of games I've played for the last few years. So... I don't think much needs to really be improved, with the exception of the graphical quality.
Personally I just want No More Heroes 2 released on PS3 before anything else. Then I'll start worrying about other games. That being said I didn't hate Lollipop Chainsaw but I traded it in as soon as I beat it. I would never trade in NMH.
I should fucking hope it's better than LP. That game was terrible. And hopefully it goes in a more dark and insanely weird direction like killer7 and No More Heroes.
Suda's games are weird and go in all kinds of different directions, I don't know how anyone could really expect to love them all, or even speculate that one game is going to be exactly like another, let alone what a future one will be like till we see it. People need to clam down and just enjoy the fact that this dude loves to make games no one else would ever think to put out, and that we get to play them, when these are exactly the type of games that usually don't get localized, that we usually NEVER hear about.
Lollipop was cool. Played through it twice, and maybe I'll do a third. Not every game needs to be a volcanic spew of perfect revolutionary madness.
I am enjoying Lollipop Chainsaw thoroughly though there is a feeling of sameness to it after playing Shadows of the Damned. Its not a bad thing but I hope this next game is a departure from that. I adore Suda 51 and will always embrace his games but I hope he continues to grow and give us something shining and surreal and new.
So.
Shadows of the Damned was a deconstruction of the hyper-macho adolescent male power fantasy of the Nukem-Phoenix bloodline.
Lollipop Chainsaw was a deconstruction of the empty-headed, impossible figure adolescent male sexual fantasy non-character.
So what will Killer is Dead deconstruct?
My first impression is that it'll be the tragic/justified killer, in Max Payne/Niko Bellic tradition. But that doesn't seem to be an archetype that has been used enough to afford analysis. So I'm thinking it's Suda's analysis of himself: the weird, über symbolic game. That it seems to be a mix-up of his two previous weirder, most symbolic games would seem to bear this out.
Shadows of the Damned was a deconstruction of the hyper-macho adolescent male power fantasy of the Nukem-Phoenix bloodline.
Lollipop Chainsaw was a deconstruction of the empty-headed, impossible figure adolescent male sexual fantasy non-character.
So what will Killer is Dead deconstruct?
My first impression is that it'll be the tragic/justified killer, in Max Payne/Niko Bellic tradition. But that doesn't seem to be an archetype that has been used enough to afford analysis. So I'm thinking it's Suda's analysis of himself: the weird, über symbolic game. That it seems to be a mix-up of his two previous weirder, most symbolic games would seem to bear this out.
I actually found LC to be very annoying. For a Grasshopper game (and just coming off the fantastic "Shadows of the Damned"), I was very disappointed.
I'm hoping LC was just a bump in the road and the next game should be a lot better
I'm hoping LC was just a bump in the road and the next game should be a lot better
@ctg
Jeez, did lollipop Chainsaw run over your dog or something? You seem to have a rather silly vendetta against it.
Jeez, did lollipop Chainsaw run over your dog or something? You seem to have a rather silly vendetta against it.
@Ziggy
Honestly, just looking through comment history here, ctg seems to have a problem with just about everything.
Honestly, just looking through comment history here, ctg seems to have a problem with just about everything.
what suda51 and japanese artists in general don't seem to realize is that "cult" isn't something you can manufacture. when you set out to make something "cult," like the last few Grasshopper games or all those Machine Girl whatever garbage movies they keep cranking out over there, you just end up with something forced and inauthentic that goes against the real appeal of cult art
You know what would improve this game over Lollipop Chainsaw for me personally? If they would make a PC version of it. ;)
@Dick Powers
I don't think Grashopper tries to make cult games. Their products end up getting the cult status because they are different from the sameness that are blockbuster/triple A western developed games.
I don't think Grashopper tries to make cult games. Their products end up getting the cult status because they are different from the sameness that are blockbuster/triple A western developed games.
I wouldn't say I like the direction they're going in - in that Killer7 > NMH > SotD > LC - but I can't complain. Sure Suda's games are growing more simple, straight-forward, and trying to appeal more to the mainstream, but they're still as nuts as ever and totally unique from one another and I'm really liking Lollipop Chainsaw (and I'm glad it seems to be winning him some commercial success), even if it's not as good as the fantastic Shadows of the Damned (which in turn is not in the same league as NMH or K7).
I have high hopes for Killer is Dead though. Everything about the art style and the premise is what I love about Suda51.
I have high hopes for Killer is Dead though. Everything about the art style and the premise is what I love about Suda51.
@caramelzappa
the games they run on where sluggish, not to mention it break the fluidity of the games.
im not expecting 60FPS or any of that, i just want a fluid game like Bayonetta or even Onechanbara Kagura Z. especially for a game like Lollipop Chainsaw.
but yeah some people here in DTOID are just assholes.
i never knew this one user could be such a fucking douchebag in every article.
he might even top Rammstein in this site :P
the games they run on where sluggish, not to mention it break the fluidity of the games.
im not expecting 60FPS or any of that, i just want a fluid game like Bayonetta or even Onechanbara Kagura Z. especially for a game like Lollipop Chainsaw.
but yeah some people here in DTOID are just assholes.
i never knew this one user could be such a fucking douchebag in every article.
he might even top Rammstein in this site :P
I don't feel Suda is getting more simplistic at all. I think his newer games just have exteriors that are more easy to swallow for the public, and the designs that have become less convoluted. I believe LPC and Shadows definitely have that special touch, it's just without the Jorodarsky/Lynch exterior, most Suda fans don't feel that there's much to analyze. As a whole Grasshopper is getting a little short sticked with their recent releases when they've made some outstanding design decisions. Take another look at SotD and LPC. There's a lot there.
@solidturtleman
Come on, SotD and LC are as empty as can be. I don't understand why you people insist on seeing depth where there is none. Killer7 and NMH, on the other hand, are a lot richer (even if they're still a case of style over substance).
I truly hope that Killer is Dead will have a more art-house vibe, great characters and something substantial beneath its quirky façade.
Come on, SotD and LC are as empty as can be. I don't understand why you people insist on seeing depth where there is none. Killer7 and NMH, on the other hand, are a lot richer (even if they're still a case of style over substance).
I truly hope that Killer is Dead will have a more art-house vibe, great characters and something substantial beneath its quirky façade.
Well, it seems pretty simple to me; Suda is actively trying to appeal to more people with his games. In some subtle ways, this seems to make his games less appealing to people who were already fans of Suda. No More Heroes 2 got rid of a weirdly big open-world, copious amounts of walking, and seemingly dull-on-purpose mini-games from the first game. Killer7 was a bizarre take on a shooter, but Shadows of the Damned was a bit too familiar of a shooter for much of the time. Lollipop Chainsaw feels in some ways like a retry of No More Heroes, but now with zombies, a sexy protagonist, and lots of pop-culture references seemingly for the appeal of it.
And I'd say, this is a futile pursuit; Suda can't help but make games with unappealing aspects, which make them very special for the fans, but will turn away the new audience he seems to be pursuing. Unfortunately, his growing popularity seems to affected him for the worst.
And I'd say, this is a futile pursuit; Suda can't help but make games with unappealing aspects, which make them very special for the fans, but will turn away the new audience he seems to be pursuing. Unfortunately, his growing popularity seems to affected him for the worst.
I loved Chainsaw. My only real gripes are that some of the achievements were insane and the game would have been better served if the levels were chopped in half.
I know how suitcases and samurai swords are motifs in Suda51's, but I'm really hoping this is a cross between The Silver Case/Flower, Sun, and Rain world with the Killer7 one. Would blow my mine.
@coyotelunaire
"you people"
Ah, YOU people. who's is it that you see nothing there? Is it possible that the game mechanics and structure of SotD and LPC put you off because they are more similar to other games? They have a very different feel from NMH and Killer 7, but that does not mean that there is nothing there. Did you read Jim's Lollipop Chainsaw and Objectification? Did you know James Gunn tweeted Jim back saying that was one of the things he intended? The author confirmed the depth. I find it hard to believe that Grasshopper went from making 2 of the smartest games ever made to the bottom of the barrel. There IS depth there and I will continue to insist that there is be cause the people who made it deserve better than what they got, in terms of critical, commercial, and fan response.
"you people"
Ah, YOU people. who's is it that you see nothing there? Is it possible that the game mechanics and structure of SotD and LPC put you off because they are more similar to other games? They have a very different feel from NMH and Killer 7, but that does not mean that there is nothing there. Did you read Jim's Lollipop Chainsaw and Objectification? Did you know James Gunn tweeted Jim back saying that was one of the things he intended? The author confirmed the depth. I find it hard to believe that Grasshopper went from making 2 of the smartest games ever made to the bottom of the barrel. There IS depth there and I will continue to insist that there is be cause the people who made it deserve better than what they got, in terms of critical, commercial, and fan response.
I think that James Gunn's writing was really poor. It felt like my father was trying to make me laugh with stereotypical ''jokes'' about my generation. I can't say I disliked the game though, it was still entertaining to see how many absurd concepts Suda could come up with.
@solidturtleman
I'm sorry if I came across as rude. Writing in English is not something I do often, and I'm not comfortable with it. "you people" sounds aggressive and childish, I guess.
I did read Jim's article on Lollipop Chainsaw, but I think he tried WAY too much to make this game appear meaningful. The writing by Gunn is so poor, the jokes so crude, the characters so bland, the clichés so apparent that, in my opinion, it neutralizes whatever depth LC could have had.
Like you, I'm a big fan of Grasshopper, but for me, ever since the train wreck that was NMH2, their games have been getting increasingly juvenile and cringeworthy.
I'm sorry if I came across as rude. Writing in English is not something I do often, and I'm not comfortable with it. "you people" sounds aggressive and childish, I guess.
I did read Jim's article on Lollipop Chainsaw, but I think he tried WAY too much to make this game appear meaningful. The writing by Gunn is so poor, the jokes so crude, the characters so bland, the clichés so apparent that, in my opinion, it neutralizes whatever depth LC could have had.
Like you, I'm a big fan of Grasshopper, but for me, ever since the train wreck that was NMH2, their games have been getting increasingly juvenile and cringeworthy.
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