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I like how people are starting to take action against this sort of bullshit. Even 10 years ago, we would have all put up with the lies media companies spread to get ratings, but now people are showing that there are consequences for their actions.
There is hope for humanity yet, my friends.
There is hope for humanity yet, my friends.
@ Im OK
I like you. Like me, you're a voice of reason when everyone else is being crazy. And just like me, you don't seem to know how to pick your battles.
I essentially agree with what you're saying, but damnit if this shit aint funny just the same.
I like you. Like me, you're a voice of reason when everyone else is being crazy. And just like me, you don't seem to know how to pick your battles.
I essentially agree with what you're saying, but damnit if this shit aint funny just the same.
Rock ON! That's what you get for spouting off nonsense on a topic you know nothing about. Perhaps this will teach someone a lesson! ... Probably not though. All this will merit is a five minute segment on the evening news about how the internet is harassing people.
"This is the definition of beating a dead horse. Is it that slow of a news day that we must endure another fucking Cooper/Fox/Mass Effect/EA "I have nothing to talk about, so let's talk about the same shit we did yesterday" story?"
Step 1: Don't read it.
Step 2: Don't comment on it.
Step 3: Don't fail.
Step 1: Don't read it.
Step 2: Don't comment on it.
Step 3: Don't fail.
@ImOk...
As gamers we have no representation. EA went ahead and wrote a letter and was just given the run around from Fox. So you can see why the Mass of upset gamers have taken an outlet against this type of slander. There isnt going to be a Fox News Report about how this story was completely unfounded. Nor will there be one on CNN or CNBC. This in internet lingo, "flame-baiting" and most would have accepted any harsh comments towards the person with a grain of salt. She started a flame war and she is the only one with something to lose for it.
Now I haven't gone on Amazon and ripped her a new one but hey thats because 300+ people beat me to it.
This is our form of boycott as gamers. If Amazon wants to take it into their own hands thats fine but I agree with all the reviews that claim this woman fails to do research. Yes our method is a little harsh but if in anyway her actions and Fox News actionsaffected the sale of Mass Effect then I believe that in some way she should see some response from it.
As gamers we have no representation. EA went ahead and wrote a letter and was just given the run around from Fox. So you can see why the Mass of upset gamers have taken an outlet against this type of slander. There isnt going to be a Fox News Report about how this story was completely unfounded. Nor will there be one on CNN or CNBC. This in internet lingo, "flame-baiting" and most would have accepted any harsh comments towards the person with a grain of salt. She started a flame war and she is the only one with something to lose for it.
Now I haven't gone on Amazon and ripped her a new one but hey thats because 300+ people beat me to it.
This is our form of boycott as gamers. If Amazon wants to take it into their own hands thats fine but I agree with all the reviews that claim this woman fails to do research. Yes our method is a little harsh but if in anyway her actions and Fox News actionsaffected the sale of Mass Effect then I believe that in some way she should see some response from it.
I fully understand what some of you must be thinking -- that this is 'stooping to her level,' and potentially making gamers look bad.
I'm afraid I'm gonna have to jump on that boat, Jim.
I really hope that we're not proving that @$&%#'s point with all this adolescent name-calling. If we end up looking like a pack of squealing retards, I'll be the one saying "I told you so".
High road all the way, says I. Jeff Brown has the right idea.
I'm afraid I'm gonna have to jump on that boat, Jim.
I really hope that we're not proving that @$&%#'s point with all this adolescent name-calling. If we end up looking like a pack of squealing retards, I'll be the one saying "I told you so".
High road all the way, says I. Jeff Brown has the right idea.
Grimlock: If you have a problem with it though, by all means go apply to write for a game blog yourself and post only what you deem worthy in your high and mighty opinion.
Manasteel: Totally with you on this. This action was performed by gamers who are sick of being underrepresented so that clueless pundits can have their uninformed say. We are constantly ignored and as such, frustrated. This may be a petty way of getting our own back, but it's the only outlet we have.
Power, indeed, to the people.
Manasteel: Totally with you on this. This action was performed by gamers who are sick of being underrepresented so that clueless pundits can have their uninformed say. We are constantly ignored and as such, frustrated. This may be a petty way of getting our own back, but it's the only outlet we have.
Power, indeed, to the people.
@Im OK
Your comment put you on my friends list. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks this whole incident is an embarrassment to gamers the world over.
Your comment put you on my friends list. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks this whole incident is an embarrassment to gamers the world over.
And Grimlock,
Chill, kid boy. We picked up on the negativity about two dozen posts ago. It's okay, we heard you, but most of us feel this discussion needs to continue.
Chill, kid boy. We picked up on the negativity about two dozen posts ago. It's okay, we heard you, but most of us feel this discussion needs to continue.
Regulus: Grimlock's post annoys me because his attitude is part of the reason why gamers never get represented in this argument. Gamers are so apathetic that a day later, it's "old news, show me something new and shiny."
No wonder this Amazon stunt is one of the few avenues we have.
No wonder this Amazon stunt is one of the few avenues we have.
Sure Grimlock, the man who dedicates his time to writing 4600+ Dugg full length features, works on two podcasts, and posts between two and seven news pieces a day is lazy. And yeah, Niero absolutely despises me.
I don't think this is really "stooping to her level" at all. It seems more like a massive satirical attack rather than pure, childish backlash (though I'm sure that's a part of it for many). The reviews weren't made out of genuine ignorance or a desire to pass judgment on the book, but rather as a parody of the author's attack on Mass Effect and the flaws of her argument. I view this as a well executed and genuinely hilarious statement by the gamer community, made in a unique way only they could come up with.
Jim, let it slide man. That dude is a douche. The world is so full of 'em that if you let yourself get pissed of every time they say something that was written on a piece of paper that they pulled from their assholes in a stunning show of magical talent, you'll have a heart attack and die before your time.
Jim: You make a compelling point, but I think this particular incident is part of the same problem. I truly worry that our community - gamers in general - doesn't quite have its priorities straight. It's so easy for us to stop caring at the drop of a hat, but when something does get us riled up, we overreact to a staggering degree, and that really doesn't help our cause.
I'll PM you with the rest; I'd be honored to go point/counterpoint with you on this. It's a matter that needs to be discussed in great depth if we are to cement our position as a legitimate facet of culture.
I'll PM you with the rest; I'd be honored to go point/counterpoint with you on this. It's a matter that needs to be discussed in great depth if we are to cement our position as a legitimate facet of culture.
By the way, good job to those who pointed out that this is cunningly executed satire. Seeing it from that point of view definitely makes it easier to enjoy it. :D
Regulus, go for it mang. It's been ages since I had someone try and *intelligently* debate with me.
And yeah, Cyberxion, you're right, I really need to stop dedicating what small spare time I get in the day to deal with every reader who wants to try and make me notice him. I shall take my leave of this silly banter and let the thread get back on track, which is the awesome hazing of Doc Crock.
And yeah, Cyberxion, you're right, I really need to stop dedicating what small spare time I get in the day to deal with every reader who wants to try and make me notice him. I shall take my leave of this silly banter and let the thread get back on track, which is the awesome hazing of Doc Crock.
@ TheHunter: exactly.
Like I said above and want to reiterate here: This is satire. Some of the reviews may be childish attacks, but if you read through them, many of them mimic her arguments brilliantly and are clearly meant to be ironic.
Like I said above and want to reiterate here: This is satire. Some of the reviews may be childish attacks, but if you read through them, many of them mimic her arguments brilliantly and are clearly meant to be ironic.
"Why is it somehow better for ignorant gamers who haven't actually read her book to be spamming Amazon site for it with bad reviews than it is for her ignorant ass to be talking shit about a video game she hasn't played? Is the second-grader logic of "well, she started it" good enough for us? It's okay when we do it, but not okay when they do it? Hypocrisy? Double standard? Why yes, indeed. "
I think you're missing the point here. You're equating what gamers are doing on Amazon with what Cooper did on Faux News, the problem is that there is a key difference between the two that you don't seem to be thinking about. Grrza put it best:
"The key difference with these reviews and her comments on the news short is that her comments were made with what seemed to be sheer earnestness. She was sincere. You'd have to be brain dead to not get that these reviews are intentionally ironic, ad hoc attacks. It's satire at it's finest, and it's brilliant. "
I will, however, concede that some comments/reviews would indeed damage the cause and make us look bad, I.E. reviews and comments that are simply vulgar personal insults, some even fused with threats of violence. I think that a lot of them have been removed though, the ones that remain all follow in the same form. Those that remain certainly aren't stooping to any low level or going to far, because like grrza said, it's pure satire. These reviews are not sincere, they are in complete jest and mockery. How can one attack such a thing? If Cooper attempts to defend herself by showing these reviews off completely disregarding satire, she'd simply be shining light on the situation and making herself look worse. When you look at the tone of these reviews, it's completely obvious that they're satire. Even if you tried to misdirect someone into thinking of it as something else, it would end up in failure. But let's think of it this way: If Cooper were to say "Look how immature gamers are, they give a negative review to my book out of spite without having read it," how much brain power does it take for the viewer to connect dots and think "Hold on a second, didn't Cooper go on to give a negative overlook of a game without even playing it? I see what they did there..."
Lets remember Faux's target audience though, if they were intelligent enough to figure such a thing out, they wouldn't be watching Faux in the first place right? True, but why are we all of the sudden trying to win over a narrow minded, ignorant audience that simply could not care less about our voice in the matter? If we were to remain quiet, would they really care? No matter what we do, and in many cases don't do (in the case of Mass Effect deemed a pornographic game), Faux news will put out tabloid-level nonsense to satisfy its simple minded audience. Would it really benefit us to try to win over this type of audience anyways? I'd much rather have an intelligent audience for video games than an ignorant one. Comparing audiences would show that Faux is in a bad looking position in contrast, given the fact that only a fool would actually take them seriously.
ImOk, I can see why you'd be concerned over the matter, because the thought passed through my head too, but don't worry about it. There's intelligence behind this one, even if some are merely blind imitators, I don't think that Cooper and the gang can win this one on an intellectual level (Faux being on any intellectual level whatsoever is a laughable claim to begin with). The only thing they would do is twist words, messages, and so on, trying to paint this as some sort of "malicious hack" for example. Big deal. Even if we were to write up eloquent and intelligent reviews of her book, they would still go the same route in an attempt to make themselves look rightm even when completely wrong (as always).
I think you're missing the point here. You're equating what gamers are doing on Amazon with what Cooper did on Faux News, the problem is that there is a key difference between the two that you don't seem to be thinking about. Grrza put it best:
"The key difference with these reviews and her comments on the news short is that her comments were made with what seemed to be sheer earnestness. She was sincere. You'd have to be brain dead to not get that these reviews are intentionally ironic, ad hoc attacks. It's satire at it's finest, and it's brilliant. "
I will, however, concede that some comments/reviews would indeed damage the cause and make us look bad, I.E. reviews and comments that are simply vulgar personal insults, some even fused with threats of violence. I think that a lot of them have been removed though, the ones that remain all follow in the same form. Those that remain certainly aren't stooping to any low level or going to far, because like grrza said, it's pure satire. These reviews are not sincere, they are in complete jest and mockery. How can one attack such a thing? If Cooper attempts to defend herself by showing these reviews off completely disregarding satire, she'd simply be shining light on the situation and making herself look worse. When you look at the tone of these reviews, it's completely obvious that they're satire. Even if you tried to misdirect someone into thinking of it as something else, it would end up in failure. But let's think of it this way: If Cooper were to say "Look how immature gamers are, they give a negative review to my book out of spite without having read it," how much brain power does it take for the viewer to connect dots and think "Hold on a second, didn't Cooper go on to give a negative overlook of a game without even playing it? I see what they did there..."
Lets remember Faux's target audience though, if they were intelligent enough to figure such a thing out, they wouldn't be watching Faux in the first place right? True, but why are we all of the sudden trying to win over a narrow minded, ignorant audience that simply could not care less about our voice in the matter? If we were to remain quiet, would they really care? No matter what we do, and in many cases don't do (in the case of Mass Effect deemed a pornographic game), Faux news will put out tabloid-level nonsense to satisfy its simple minded audience. Would it really benefit us to try to win over this type of audience anyways? I'd much rather have an intelligent audience for video games than an ignorant one. Comparing audiences would show that Faux is in a bad looking position in contrast, given the fact that only a fool would actually take them seriously.
ImOk, I can see why you'd be concerned over the matter, because the thought passed through my head too, but don't worry about it. There's intelligence behind this one, even if some are merely blind imitators, I don't think that Cooper and the gang can win this one on an intellectual level (Faux being on any intellectual level whatsoever is a laughable claim to begin with). The only thing they would do is twist words, messages, and so on, trying to paint this as some sort of "malicious hack" for example. Big deal. Even if we were to write up eloquent and intelligent reviews of her book, they would still go the same route in an attempt to make themselves look rightm even when completely wrong (as always).
And while I'm at it:
I've got a very short temper. Like anger-management-in-third-grade short. So I know how easy it is to get pissed and fly off the handle whenever someone insults you. To this day, I still have the nasty habit of interpreting even the most well-meaning criticism as a direct assault on my integrity, and my ego has suffered for it. Having (almost) learned to resist the animalistic defense mechanisms that continue to stain my personality, I deplore you not to let this get to you.
I'm fucking serious.
I've got a very short temper. Like anger-management-in-third-grade short. So I know how easy it is to get pissed and fly off the handle whenever someone insults you. To this day, I still have the nasty habit of interpreting even the most well-meaning criticism as a direct assault on my integrity, and my ego has suffered for it. Having (almost) learned to resist the animalistic defense mechanisms that continue to stain my personality, I deplore you not to let this get to you.
I'm fucking serious.
It's good to see a couple people actualy read the book and also and still gave it a one star. This women deserves everything she gets.
I only hope that this extra publicity doesnt end up selling more of her books than would have sold before this tv stunt.
I only hope that this extra publicity doesnt end up selling more of her books than would have sold before this tv stunt.
Im OK: While I totally get what you're saying, and believe me, I do, I fail to see how this is a bad idea. Remember, these are people who have already decided what gamers are. To them, we have always been and always will be perverse miscreants who dream of murdering people and live in dark catacombs. Tell me truthfully, do you really think this is going to alter peoples' opinions of us?
Geoff Keighley showed Fox a reasonable man. Fox did not want to see him on air for more than thirty seconds. Perhaps reinforcing their beliefs is not the most justified response, but come on, for most of us it's the only response we have.
These people are letting off steam and they're doing it in an awesomely satirical way. The worst thing that will happen is that a bunch of neoconservative hacks will continue to feel like they're the good guys.
As for Lawrence, she now knows, at least partially, what it feels like to have your work shat on by people who don't know what they're talking about.
Geoff Keighley showed Fox a reasonable man. Fox did not want to see him on air for more than thirty seconds. Perhaps reinforcing their beliefs is not the most justified response, but come on, for most of us it's the only response we have.
These people are letting off steam and they're doing it in an awesomely satirical way. The worst thing that will happen is that a bunch of neoconservative hacks will continue to feel like they're the good guys.
As for Lawrence, she now knows, at least partially, what it feels like to have your work shat on by people who don't know what they're talking about.
@ Matlox
The only problem with that entire argument is that those reading her reviews would have to have incite into what she did in order for them to understand that the reviews are satire.
Given the intelligence level of the general public, I wouldn't put it past them to totally buy into most of those reviews, lacking any frame of reference from which to determine why they're not.
Or something.
The only problem with that entire argument is that those reading her reviews would have to have incite into what she did in order for them to understand that the reviews are satire.
Given the intelligence level of the general public, I wouldn't put it past them to totally buy into most of those reviews, lacking any frame of reference from which to determine why they're not.
Or something.
By the way, I totally didn't read past a certain point because I was sure that I had a point of my own. Anything that proves me wrong does not exist.
Sadly, Amazon has removed all the epic user-submitted images, and in fact, the last time I checked, they had pulled a GameSpot. That is, they removed all user reviews for the book — just like GameSpot disabled user reviews and ratings for Kane & Lynch: Dead Men in the wake of Gerstmann-gate. But even Amazon can’t stem the tide of the internet: it seems that hell hath no fury like a gamer scorned, as her book currently (9:50 PM EST) has 442 user reviews; 386 of them are one-star ratings.
In before retribution.
Grimlock, for the love of all that is fair and not obnoxious in this world, would you quit egging the man on?
Christ, sometimes you people make me seethe with anger.
STOP.
Grimlock, for the love of all that is fair and not obnoxious in this world, would you quit egging the man on?
Christ, sometimes you people make me seethe with anger.
STOP.
Not a dead horse at all, I think the reaction (and a clever one demonstrating the new power of new media) is interesting and I'm curious to see what else comes out of it. Fired? Best seller? That's why I come here, I wouldn't have heard of this otherwise.
F that woman. That's national televsion, the damage she caused abusing that influence is enormous and irresponsible (Faux at it's best).
I'm on the wagon.. I posted a neg review, and threw in the question of Cooper's gender. I really don't know if that's a woman or not.. so, do me a favor, if you add a review, tag it 'transgender'
Bravo net
F that woman. That's national televsion, the damage she caused abusing that influence is enormous and irresponsible (Faux at it's best).
I'm on the wagon.. I posted a neg review, and threw in the question of Cooper's gender. I really don't know if that's a woman or not.. so, do me a favor, if you add a review, tag it 'transgender'
Bravo net
@Grimlock
I'm not upset that you disagree. I'm disturbed at the pleasure you seem to be taking in the act of disagreement itself. And the "tough shit" tacked on at the end of that comment makes you sound a little less coolly indifferent than you would probably like to sound.
Just don't be so impolite about it. Like, for real.
I'm not upset that you disagree. I'm disturbed at the pleasure you seem to be taking in the act of disagreement itself. And the "tough shit" tacked on at the end of that comment makes you sound a little less coolly indifferent than you would probably like to sound.
Just don't be so impolite about it. Like, for real.
Well, I contributed my review at barnsandnoble. Cooper's taking a beating while happy boy Jack is taking a rest.
SHOW ME SHINY!!... @Jim no really I agree it takes more the a 3 min attention span to even cook a pizza(with out burning it) so can we accomplish anything when it's "old news" a day later?
@Grimlock
And wait a second, that was a straw man argument you just made there. You dropped the "mimicking the rest of the lemming population" bomb in reference to a topic (the relevance of Jim's post) that wasn't even the focus of this discussion (whether or not our actions on Amazon are a good idea).
My hat is off to you for your deft wordplay, but c'mon now.
Can't we all just be friends (and by that I mean not beat each other over the head with our aloofness)?
And wait a second, that was a straw man argument you just made there. You dropped the "mimicking the rest of the lemming population" bomb in reference to a topic (the relevance of Jim's post) that wasn't even the focus of this discussion (whether or not our actions on Amazon are a good idea).
My hat is off to you for your deft wordplay, but c'mon now.
Can't we all just be friends (and by that I mean not beat each other over the head with our aloofness)?
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