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JRPGs, narrative conflict, and gameplay lyricism photo

I really need you guys to do me a favor. The next time someone tells you that they like a Japanese-style role-playing game because of its "story," I want you to kick them in the teeth. You might have to stand on a chair, or perhaps trip them first, but the kick to the teeth is necessary. You can take your shoes off if it's someone you particularly care for, but, I must reiterate, kick them in the teeth.

I think everyone with two brain cells to rub together can agree that JRPG plots need a good shot in the arm, and yet, there seems to be something else narratively appealing going on. Scores of reasonably intelligent people (yours truly included) flock to these types of games every year despite the genre's obvious and widely proclaimed shortcomings.

So, back to the teeth-kicking: after that's over, they'll ask you, "Why'd you just kick me in the mouth?" You have one of two options: you can just point them to the article conveniently located after the jump, or you can summarize it for them.

Either way, hit the jump for a piece on plot failings and what I'm going to call, for lack of a better term, "gameplay lyricism."

 

Ok, before we start, I'm going to set up some ground terms. I'm also about to talk (very generally) about Aristotle, but don't run off. Here goes:

In his Poetics, written in about 355 B.C., Aristotle divided literature into about three parts: drama, epic poetry, and lyric poetry. Drama is, in a nutshell, the theater; but more generally, it's any character-driven, present-tense narrative. Epics are generally historical and political in nature and incorporate certain epic conceits (more on those later). The last group, lyricism, describes brief, emotive character sketches. Think of it this way: the words in modern songs are called "lyrics" because, by and large, they are outpourings of some sort of emotion. If you've ever read any sonnets, you get the idea.

A second defintion: a game's story and its plot aren't the same thing. A story is just that, but a plot establishes a causal relationship between events in the story. For example: "The King died, and then the Queen died." That's a (sad) story, but it doesn't have a plot because we don't know why caused the King or Queen's death. "The King died in the War, and the Queen committed suicide out of grief," however, is a story, with a plot. Of course, the plot could go further and give some sort of causal explanation for the War, but you get my point.

So, what does this have to do with JRPGs? I'll admit that the stories are passable (if overly bombastic and histrionic), but JRPGs, as a genre, have absolutely horrid plots. These are handled in three distinct, yet equally ineffective, ways.

As a fantastically popular RPG that legitimized the genre in the United States, I'm going to assume most of you are familiar with Final Fantasy VII. I'm also going to use it to illustrate the first two ways that JRPGs fail in the plot deptartment.

For example, after leaving Midgar in a hurry, Cloud and Co. make their way over to a nearby town called Kalm, which is fine except the game never gives you any reason to. Final Fantasy VII simply assumes that the player recognizes exploration as a JRPG trope and leaves you to wander around. This is exactly what I mean when I say that JRPGs have no plot: after leaving Midgar, there's nothing that says you should go to Kalm, except that it happens to be there.

The second method for handling a plot is to simply write a bad one, a trap in which 80% of all the RPGs I've ever played fall. To poke more fun at Final Fantasy VII, by the time Cloud's memories have been erased and he's jumped into the Lifestream, the plot is completely derailed. Killing Sephiroth at the end of the game is satisfying (and I'll explain why), but not because the plot makes any fucking sense. The emotional stakes are significantly lowered when you can't remember (or don't care) what exactly makes Sephiroth bad or why you should kill him. Squaresoft may have had something narratively interesting on their hands, but the execution was horribly botched.

The third way to handle plot is, of course, to actually write a sensible one. 

Unfortunately, this is where the genre's limitations come into play: JRPG gameplay tropes and their plots (however well-intentioned) are inherently (and almost universally) conflicted. Grinding, synthesizing, and sidequesting have troubling narrative implications: there's no point in crafting a compelling plot if the player is never forced to act on it. If you divide a JRPG into chunks it works out like this: the first few hours are incredible; there's a middle section where things get boring or convoluted; and a tacked-on ending that doesn't make any sense because the middle section wasn't worth keeping tabs on. And as long as JRPGs value leveling up, going on sidequests, and exploration, those divisions will never change.

The more time a player spends grinding, synthesizing items, and farming gold (activities in which players are encouraged to partcipate), the less important the game's plot becomes. If, by the time I've finished riding snowboards at the Golden Saucer and played my 100th game of Blitzball, I've forgotten why I need to save the Princess and kill the Bad Guy, then I'm back at square one. Any way you cut it, JRPGs tend to push plot to the backburner and the game's systems and mechanics are largely divorced from any sort of narrative frame.

On a fundamental level, the stalemate between JRPG plots and JRPG gameplay is evident when the games use CGI and full-motion video (or, alternatively, long, boring, dialogue screens) to deliver the plot. Wrenching control away from the player is a very basic way to signal that there is some sort of disjunction between gameplay and narrative, and in no genre is that more true than JRPGs. 

So, why, then, do most JRPG fans still cling to the idea that the story is important in a JRPG when too often it is, implicitly and explicitly, playing second fiddle to gameplay?



Because JRPG tropes force you to care about the characters (stereotypical as most of them are), drawing the line between "good" characters and good plot can be tricky, especially when some JRPGs explicitly address the situation.

For example, Mistwalker's Lost Odyssey relies almost exclusively on the strength of the 100 Years of Dreams sequences to make you care about Kaim and, to a lesser extent, Ming and Seth. Atlus' Persona 3 and 4 do the same thing, albeit a bit differently. The long middle section where nothing really happens makes sense in the context of a high-school sim -- instead, that time is filled with heaps of character interaction and development. These games go to extremes, but they illustrate the general model -- when the plot starts falling apart, JRPGs tend to fill in the gaps with character development or revelation.

What emerges is roughly the videogame equivalent of a sonnet sequence, a staple of lyricism -- a very long string of emotionally charged moments with vaguely defined narrative frame. JRPGs have the same type of structure -- plot takes a backseat in favor of extended exposure to characters -- and the appeal is similar. The explosions and exposed midriffs make for good marketing, but the real draw for fans of JRPGs is, I think, this type of interactive lyricism, even at the expense of a well-defined plot.

Perhaps unfortunately, Lost Odyssey and the Persona series are the exceptions that prove the rule. Both of those games handle the lack of plot relatively gracefully (Persona more so than Lost Odyssey) and do a lot to bring out the lyrical aspects of the genre. Most traditional JRPGs, interestingly enough, handle it through their mechanics.

Here's how it works: in the absence of a discernible plot, most JRPGs rely on hours of dialogue, interaction with NPCs, exploration, item management, and battle to make players fall in love with whatever motley crew happens to be at the center of the game. The trick is that players get the chance to, however subtly, define and contribute to character identity.

Look at it this way: JRPGs, more than any other genre, thrive  on character differentiation. You need a healer, a tank, a brawler, a necromancer, etc. to have a successful party, and every piece of equipment, every skill, every drawn-out spell animation contributes to the definition of a unique identity for each of the characters. Because survival necessitates a varied and balanced party, players take specific and deliberate steps to create characters that suit gameplay needs.

In an admittedly small way, JRPGs allow players to create and shape characters, and the player himself becomes central to the way the game works. It's a subtle maneuver (one that Gary Gygax, for example, recongnized acutely), but it goes a long way to pulling the character in, even if there's nothing in the script or storyboards worth paying attention to.

While JRPGs lack in emergent gameplay and branching plotlines, they tend to be greater than the sums of their parts, if only because they're so big. An hour of grinding might not mean much at the time, but by the time you've made Aeris cast her 1000th cure spell (and by the time she gets stabbed in the sternum), she's more than a tool for survival: she exists differently for everyone who's ever played Final Fantasy VII because everyone set up her materia in different ways, because JRPG characters exist in a player-created vacuum. Any emotional engagement is necessarily lyrical -- that is to say, character driven -- because the player creates the characters himself And at the end of the game, killing the final boss feels satisfying because it represents a triumph for all the characters which the player himself has defined, not because the plot had anything going for it.

Games like Lost Odyssey and Persona fill the narrative gaps with explicit character development, and most other traditional JRPGs do the same thing through their mechanics. The steps that JRPG developers take to ensure that you're initmately connected to your characters help you forget (or forgive) the fact that the greater narrative structures of the game are largely irrelevant. By that same token, they also establish lyricism -- personal and emotional character sketches -- as the dominant idiom of the genre. 

Unfortunately, waiting for the player to spend 80 hours chipping away at the emotional obstacles necessary for this type of gameplay lyricism to work is a horribly inefficient way to engage a satisfying response. It also explains why JRPG fans seem to be such an insular group -- there are some people who "get it" and some who don't. Unless you already enjoy the essential tropes of Japanese role-playing games -- resource management, stats, menu navigation, exploration -- you won't last long enough to get to the emotionally satisfying parts.

In general, the JRPG is still crippingly dependant on long, boring dialogue and FMVs to convey narrative, which is a problem, but its real emotional oomph is really a by-product of its core mechanic. Level-grinding and compelling plots might always be at loggerheads, but that isn't to say that JRPG gameplay is absolutely divorced from its emotional impact. Ironically, lyrical gameplay is simultaneously its strongest draw for fans and the biggest barrier to entry for new-comers.


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102 comments | showing # 1 to 50

Dan CiTi's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/15/2009 17:11
Dan CiTi
I don't get it, but I like Persona 4. I don't really think any games have too good of stories really, but they are fun/interesting.

Are you saying that RPG's gameplay and character development get in the way of the story? That doesn't make sense to me.
Wedge's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/15/2009 17:14
Wedge
So... why is it you don't write more?
Freefall's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/15/2009 17:23
Freefall
Well said.
Matthew Blake's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/15/2009 17:24
Matthew Blake
Cool article! This is exactly why I can't get into JRPGs anymore. I think one could fix this in two ways:

1) Focus on a tightly-written linear story. Cut the filler, no sidequests, minigames, etc. Just good old-fashioned narrative.

Or...

2) Focus entirely on the 'lyrical gameplay'. Drop the epic storyline, just let the player focus on building strong characters, literally and figuratively.

No idea how those would work, but what the hey.
dj-anon's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/15/2009 17:24
dj-anon
I think this is not exclusive to JRPGs, but to video games in general. I felt the same way about Bioshock: where I was supposed to care about many things I didn't, like the little sisters, where in reality the immersion and interactivity proxy has always been the gameplay. That's why something like Halo, Prince of Persia or Fallout would make terrible movies, as their stories only make sense within the context of the game and the way we are supposed to approach it according to the genre.

A good story in a game has to be subtle and go hand to hand with the gameplay. Silent Hill, Soul Reaver, Hitman, and Call of Duty are good examples. Here, the story creates the drive for the player and encourages to pass all the obstacles to accomplish the goal of the character, instead of being an excuse to give a context to the gameplay.
Krow's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/15/2009 17:25
Krow
Nostalgia is a powerful thing, I think.
Scary Womanizing Pig Mask's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/15/2009 17:27
Scary Womanizing Pig Mask
Very, very well written article. I just don't really agree at all XP Maybe I'm just part of the problem though >.<
Wedge's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/15/2009 17:29
Wedge
More on topic though, you do a very good job explaining why people tend to either be able to play JRPGS or not at all. Though I'm curious if you think there is any kind of solution for this? I mean, it's highly doubtful such a thing could ever happen, as the grindy gameplay is very intrinsically linked with asian gaming culture, but still.

I wonder if my growing up on JRPG material is also why I've never been able to play more than an hour or two of something like Fallout, because I'm at a loss for what to do without the comforting numerical analysis to make my generally fairly linear moves forward.
garison's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/15/2009 17:29
garison
Interesting, but very confusing.
bodybreak's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/15/2009 17:31
bodybreak
An excellent read.
The only JRPG I've ever actually completed was Chronotrigger, and I think that may be because it is more plot driven than any other JRPG I've ever played (although that character attachment through development you outlined played a large role as well).
Dale North's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/15/2009 17:32
Dale North
@Wedge - he writes plenty, all of it fantastic.
Jonathan Holmes's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/15/2009 17:33
Jonathan Holmes
BRILLIANT
Zeik56's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/15/2009 17:35
Zeik56
I like plenty of JRPG stories, you don't like it you can suck it. I find it strange that you focused solely on JRPGs with this as well, given many of the complaints you brought can be applied to WRPGs and even a number of non-RPGs. Going around the Wasteland in Fallout 3 doing random menial quests for random people has no real meaning to the game's plot, and is no different than doing trivial quests in JRPG.

I will admit you brought up some valid points though. As much as I like Persona 3 and 4, their actually plots are pretty weak, they rely heavily on character interaction and development to keep you going. But that's also pretty ingrained into the structure of those games. It's quite hard to make a consistent and well told plot when the plot has to be told so sporadically on pre-set dates on the calender.

In the end the important thing is that a primary reason I get into a JRPG in the first place and keep playing is because of the story. Obviously I enjoy the mechanics of RPGs, but it's rarely the mechanics that keep me going me going back.
Dale North's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/15/2009 17:37
Dale North
I take extreme pleasure in the old, "tired" storylines, though. It's like hanging out with an old friend again every 3 or so months.
Dreamsower's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/15/2009 17:42
Dreamsower
I would definitely agree that JRPGs have horrible stories or fail at conveying whatever plot the writers had devised. The last time I recall playing a JRPG that I thought had a great story was Xenogears but that was only after looking up translations of supplemental material related to the game (it failed at communicating most if not all of the story/plot). In the end I play a lot of RPGs because the concepts of grinding/customizing/team-building are what I find addictive.

SMT games as an example for me were attractive because of the gameplay mechanics and customization as well as the trappings (music and art direction), Nocturne in particular since that was one of my first.
phantomile's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/15/2009 17:42
phantomile
Persona 4 had a really good mystery going for it, but kind of ruined it and just turned into your typical JRPG story at the end.

The only story I ever found to be really well-written and emotionally powerful in any JRPG, is Final Fantasy VIII. (Note, that says VIII. Not VII.)
kce05d's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/15/2009 17:45
kce05d
Isn't this one of this differences between JRPG's and western ones? In western Rpgs, such as Oblivion, most actions done by the character affect the real world, and in some cases cases, become relevant to the story/plot. It seems that western rpg's are trying to head more to a cause and effect relationship with the character's actions and the story/plot.
Just thinking about ow JRPG's could solve these problems though, it would make for something great. Imagine if there was an actual relevant explanation for battles; npcs who actually have a reason for being there; or a cast of characters who weren't loved simply because ZOMG THEIR LIMIT BREAK DOES 100000000 POINTS OF DAMAGE.
Dreamsower's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/15/2009 17:48
Dreamsower
"I take extreme pleasure in the old, "tired" storylines, though. It's like hanging out with an old friend again every 3 or so months."

@Dale I absolutely agree with this. Sometimes it is great fun to kick back and hear the same old story again with a slightly different flavor this time around.
Happymeowmeow's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/15/2009 17:52
Happymeowmeow
OW! MY TEEF!

Seriously, interesting read. Takes chutzpah to start an article about video game plots with Aristotle.

One simplistic reason so many praise the "story" of JRPGs might be because the bar is set somewhat low, storytelling-in-videogame wise.
Another reason could be the gamers themselves fill in narrative gaps with their own stories, subplots, metaphors, etc, sometimes without even realizing it. Gaming encourages that kind of thing, doesn't it?
I know by the time I had finished Digital Devil Saga I was convinced the whole thing was like a treatise on the nature of JRPGs and the convoluted/confusing story itself kind of took a back burner...
Joseph Leray's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/15/2009 17:53
Joseph Leray
@Zeik -- don't get me wrong, I LOVE JRPGs. They're what got me into gaming and I always play them out 100%. And I totally buy into the "Save the princess, save the world" story lines. But, my point is that the way JRPGs are set up paves the way for more character interaction and less (sometimes very little) actual plot.

And there's nothing wrong with that -- I'm just pointing it out because I think it's an interesting approach to design and narrative.
Scary Womanizing Pig Mask's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/15/2009 17:57
Scary Womanizing Pig Mask
@Orcist
"JRPGs are set up paves the way for more character interaction and less (sometimes very little) actual plot."

And that's what I love most about any story. It really comes down to personal preference, but for me, a strong and lovable cast is the most important bit of the story, and even if the actually narrative is somewhat weak, the interactions among the charecters is more then enough to pull me through and validate the experience. I can see why that's not everyones jam though.
zockroach's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/15/2009 18:06
zockroach
Great article. I disagree on a few points, though. Final Fantasy VII made me want to finish it because, I felt, the story and plot were very engaging. I felt a moral need to help the characters finish the game. Leveling my materia and limit breaks felt good because doing so was going to make my journey easier and more fruitful. If anything, those elements added to the narrative. My love for the characters had nothing to do with materia or spec related decisions. I found them interesting, and at the time, well written. By leveling the characters, I felt more in touch with their story driven motives.

Not sayin, just sayin. I find it to be a matter of taste when it comes to such things as plot and story in games.
Zeik56's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/15/2009 18:07
Zeik56
If there's nothing wrong with it then what's with the whole "kick them in the teeth" thing? Even if that's just you trying to grab attention, it's still a pretty hostile direction to take.

But I will agree with you that the actual plot of many JRPGs is not often their strong point. But if I say I like the "story" of a JRPG it doesn't necessarily mean it's the game's plot I like. As you pointed out yourself, the "story" and "plot" are different things. If I say I like the story of Persona 4, it's not because I think the game has an amazing plot, it's a combination of everything that has to do with the game's narrative. Even a game's plot is lacking, it can often be made up for in stuff like character development, dialogue, and atmosphere.
Bryan Phantasm's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/15/2009 18:16
Bryan Phantasm
This is a really interesting article. I think it really only scratches the surface of why JRPGs are the way they are. I agree that JRPGs (and videogames in general) haven't yet found a steady way to work in a traditional three act structure, I think this is kind of inherent in the newness of the medium. Also, I think that there are a lot of Japanese cultural aesthetics at work in JRPGs that demand they be windy and episodic. Dragon Quest is an interesting example, which is full of those lyrical encounters you describe. I think as the medium advances and finds its legs in the 21st century, we'll see developers approach plot and story in a more functional way relative to gameplay.
Xhumation's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/15/2009 18:17
Xhumation
JRPGs to me are a convoluted mess of tradition, gameplay and story.

Traditionally there's little to no plot in order to maintain a particular style of gameplay based on turn based combat and level grinding. A change in gameplay would cause a change in this traditional way of storytelling to a point where we might get some more compelling narrative.
januskirin's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/15/2009 18:25
januskirin
@Joseph LeRay, @Matthew Blake, et al.

Agreed, agreed, agreed. I've had it up to here with this sort of thing and am working on my own game to try and revive this stale genre with some real character and plot. I'll be at PAX 2009 with a combat demo of "Flare." Hope you'll be there!

http://www.arcceleste.com/
elysse's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/15/2009 18:27
elysse
Awesome! But next time, use more paragraphs in between more pictures.
shinryu108's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/15/2009 18:28
shinryu108
an excellent article, but does FFVII really make that little sense? I mean, the script is choppy at best and can be confusing, but I thought the plot and the characters' motivations were pretty linear.
sylphx's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/15/2009 18:37
sylphx
As a few people have discussed already this problem isn't exclusive to Jrpg's, all videogames are subject to this just through by the nature of acting in the exposition rather than just being an observer of the exposition such as when you are reading a book or watching a movie.

By adding interaction between exposition you risk downplaying the story if there isnt a good balance between story and gameplay. The storys of JRPG's at it's core excluding gameplay are really no better or worse than any other average piece of narrative.
bodybreak's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/15/2009 18:41
bodybreak
@Sylphx, i think he's just trying to point out that JRPG's are more likely to be subject to this problem. FF7 suffers a terrible plot but it is one of the most acclaimed JRPG's, here in the west at least.
Anus Mcphanus's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/15/2009 18:44
Anus Mcphanus
That was a really interesting read, shame I don't agree though :-P

SWPM summed it up nicely for me. I think the main problem is that JRPGs are become stale and cliched but I think your criticism of the JRPG genre can be applied to all games.
Anski's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/15/2009 18:45
Anski
I'm pretty sure FF7 did say to meet up in Kalm as you were leaving Midgar, though... and what direction it was in. Just sayin'.
Scary Womanizing Pig Mask's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/15/2009 18:46
Scary Womanizing Pig Mask
@Bodybreak
While it's definitely flawed, can you really say that FF7 has a "terrible" plot? There's some poor story telling, but I think that stems more from the script and dialogue then the way it's told.
catsithx's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/15/2009 18:47
catsithx
I agree with what bodybreak is saying. They all have the cliche to them the same plot lines or story type. Which FF 7 dose suffer from badly.
gamadaya's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/15/2009 18:50
gamadaya
"The next time someone tells you that they like a Japanese-style role-playing game because of its "story," I want you to kick them in the teeth."

I already do that. So... then I guess you'd want me to move up to face shooting then? I hate JRPGs because I want to punch all the characters in the face. Seriously, look at all those guys up there. By far the most masculine one is Tifa.
SonicTHP's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/15/2009 19:01
SonicTHP
Well written, but I am not sure that I see the point of the article. Is this literally just to point out that this is what JRPGs are commonly made up of? Obviously nearly every genre has their basic concepts (both good and bad) on which they are built. These games don't often stray too far from those concepts, which is why there are people who simply "get it" or not and are thus fans of the genre. Those people enjoy the games for what they are. They are looking to get those feelings, that experience, those elements out of the game. If they wanted a different kind of game then they should play a different kind of game.

I guess even this comment is the same as the article to me. I am pointing out that yeah, what the article says certainly has merit, but I'm not sure that it's a bad thing. I am pointing out that I know why I play those games, and I do know what to expect. It is tiring at some points to see them again and again, but it is always new to someone, and it is easy to forget that. Just the same there are a variety of games to play so if I don't like what's going on in the one I am playing, I can just stop, and choose to play a different one. It's really nothing I have to think that much about.
Braumeister's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/15/2009 19:09
Braumeister
When you have to explain to your readers the difference between narrative and plot, you've already lost.

Why do I come here again?
Electrium's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/15/2009 19:35
Electrium
Being a JRPG fan, I'm going to speak on behalf of others: We don't say "we like the story" because we feel the game has a plot that surpasses that of New York Times Bestseller novels, we say that because we like the overall experience of events. Are they flawed? Yeah. Do I care? No. But saying JRPG fans should be kicked in the teeth for liking classic, chiched, "poorly sequenced" stories? That's a pretty brash statement considering the alternatives in the gaming medium. Most books and movies suffer the same flaws; I don't understand why JRPGs are getting singled out for it.

I think Zeik56 really got it right: Even a game's plot is lacking, it can often be made up for in stuff like character development, dialogue, and atmosphere. It's the experience that's enjoyed. And if JRPGs aren't your thing, well...they don't call it a niche genre for nothing.

@ Gamadaya - So the quality of a game is determined by the masculinity of a character? Masculinity is a value that Japanese people don't care about half as much as Americans and some other countries do, so you don't see it expressed as often in games.
BGFUSAB's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/15/2009 19:42
BGFUSAB
I'm not sure I completely agree. I enjoy both WRPGs and JRPGs. I have always felt like a JRPG is more like getting led through a book (the characters are already created, their personalities determined, and you play through the adventure they are expiriencing) whereas WRPGs tend to be more open ended as if you were dropped into the world (in most WRPGs you're character has little to no background, you determine their personality and how they play). I think there are strengths to both approaches.

I think the biggest weakness of JRPG plots (or stories, whatever you want to call it) is that they suffer from what I call the Matrix syndrome. Which is when the writers try really hard to say something profound and instead turn out a muddle mass of crap (but with sweet special effects). I think FFVII suffer from this the most. I think the core premise was solid enough but by the time Cloud had figured out who he really was I had lost total interest in a character I never really cared all that much about in the first place. There are similar themes explored in Xenogears, and I feel that game pulls it off to much greater effect. In fact, I think the plot and themes overall in Xenogears was great, but I still feel like they perhaps chased after a little too much in one game. There is a general narrative flow to it though that take Fei and co from one place to another.

It certainly isn't a clean cut as the story found in a game like Baldur's Gate though. And that's what I think the real strength of WRPG style storytelling comes from, it's tight narrative structure that doesn't try to do too much. In Xenogears, while compelling, the story tried to address, religion, slavery, bigotry, psychosis, politics, the nature of man, sociology, family, friendship, betrayal (always a classic), and a lot more that I am forgetting to mention. Compare that to Bauldur's Gate . It's true issues like slavery, politics, and so and so forth were there, but they were all removed to the side, relegated to short optional quests and kept separate from the main driving narrative: you are the child of the god of murder, a heavy fate rests on you shoulders, how will this shape who you become. The story is told in three simple to follow arc, 1. Sarevok want to lead a campaign of murder and kill you as well, what do you do? 2. Irenecus wishes to steal your godly powers and has kidnapped your sister and you want her back. 3. Full scale war has broke out and you ahve a key role to play in it's outcome.

Like I said, I enjoy both genres of RPGs and both have elements that I think are enjoyable. However, I think WRPGs are far more dependent on the player's input to establish a connection with the player character than JRPGs because most WRPG characters are blank slates with nothing to attract the player to them other than what the player deems is there to attract someone. As far as JRPGs are concerned I liked Auron for being Auron, and I hated Tidus for being Tidus, and ultimately that decided how I used my characters. My connection to the character was long established before I invested any time into building them up (or conversely letting them wallow on the sidelines for being a whiny baby).
wanderingpixel's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/15/2009 19:45
wanderingpixel
A very well written article. You should definitly be wring more. Personally, I don't much care for JRPG plots, because they all end up beaing the same 'heroes journey' that plays out EXACTLY the same way. The drw for me, when it coms to JRPGs are the characters. Lost Odyssey and Persona do an excellent job at this.

I think a big problem with many games is that the plots have too much filler. Personally, I think video game stories would benefit from being shorter.
Frohike's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/15/2009 19:59
Frohike
You forgot the third population. Those who once "got it", enjoyed it for what it was, and decided to move on when it apparently didn't.
Joseph Leray's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/15/2009 20:01
Joseph Leray
Electrium-- the intro was a bit of a joke. A bit of hyperbole to get people to pay attention.

As far as singling JRPGs out -- I'm talking about JRPGs because its a genre that I'm most familiar with. And what makes JRPGs interesting isn't just their narratives tend to fall apart -- it's that they tend to fall apart because of the gameplay tropes that define them as RPGs.

To put it another way -- if an FPS has a bad story, then it just has a bad story. On the other hand, I think the that central gameplay mechanics of JRPGs contribute to the poor execution of their stories. See what I mean?
texasgoldrush's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/15/2009 20:03
texasgoldrush
The problem with JRPG plots is actually convolution and plot holes, along with numerous cliches, and choices of style over substance. Final Fantasy VII is a major example, and I think that FFVII actually helped push JRPG's into that direction.

Final Fantasy VI, although has some flaws, is a model JRPG for storytelling, the best in the genre. The plot is important, especially in the first half, but it is the characters and the thematic material that truly makes FFVI. Basically the World of Balance and the World of Ruin have two different storytelling techiniques. In the World of Balance, the storytelling is told in a linear fashion, because it is basically a race to stop the bad guys. In the World of Ruin, when Celes becomes the main protagonist and the perspective character, the story is told in a much different style. The environment and the townspeople tell the story, and after getting the airship, it is non-linear. But here is where the story is actually the most profound, as the WoR centers solely around the characters struggles and the game's themes, the meaning of true love, dealing with losing a loved one, and hope in times of despair. FFVI handled both a linear story and an open world one pretty great.
Mentok the Mindtaker's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/15/2009 20:04
Mentok the Mindtaker
The first couple of lines of your article made you sound like a dick, but then i read the rest, and even though i don't agree with you, i like what i read. Good job sir
Joseph Leray's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/15/2009 20:04
Joseph Leray
@BGFUSAB -- yeah, I know that WRPGs do the "create your character" bit a lot better than their Japanese counterparts, but I'm not as familiar with the genre. I didn't really want to run my mouth off about games I don't know much about. But I think that one central thing that both W and JRPGs have in common is their dependence on chracter-driven narratives.
TheDirtyHobo's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/15/2009 20:05
TheDirtyHobo
I could not disagree more. Story is the sum of plot, character development, cutscenes, and whatever else you want to throw in there, not the most barebones version of 'what happened' you can make up. Quite a few JRPGs have very interesting stories to tell, and while you may be able to dissect certain 'plot' advancements and ask why it happened this way, i.e. going to kalm in FF7, the game doesn't put you on an express railway straight to that city with no possible deviance from the path.

This is a luxury and a curse afforded to nearly all video games in general. Because there is interactivity, there are slight variances in exactly how a plot unfolds. The range of variance differs greatly between genres, sandbox adventures and wrpgs generally offering the most, jrpgs and shooters the least. The problem is that usually, the more open-ended and branching you make a story, the less cohesive and powerful it feels altogether, which is why a lot of wrpgs get tagged as having bad stories in comparison to their jrpg brethren.

The one thing you nailed is that storytelling and gameplay are inherently seperate in the jrpg genre, which is true of just about all games. Bioshock, one of the most notable and recent games which tried to blend the process together, was still forced to rely on cutscenes, albeit beautifully crafted, to yank the control away from the player and tell the most key portions of the game's story. It's damn hard to make a story that's told completely through the game without taking control away at some point.

I enjoy jrpg games for their story.
kefkaesque's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/15/2009 20:40
kefkaesque
I enjoy JRPGs because of the characters and their growth through the story, and the gameplay because of how you raise the characters to get to their ultimate goals. This is pretty much why I hate most WRPGs because they take that character part out of it by making you a silent protagonist that you create, and making the goals of the character something on the farthest back burner.

Also Final Fantasy 6 has a fantastic story.
Ball Buster's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/15/2009 20:41
Ball Buster
I've got mixed feelings on the whole issue. I miss the days when all you needed for a story was "The President has been kidnapped by ninjas. Are you a bad enough dude to save him?" But then again, that's a decent enough plot. You fight through all the levels to save the president. Boom. That's more motivation than you ever have to wander around on the world map with no direction. So I guess you don't need a deep story to have a strong plot.

But I agree about the lack of incentive for JRPGs. I can't play them any more. I don't want to put in 40+ hours of sidequests and grinding just to learn more about stock characters. Sure, every once in a while, there's a member of the cast who's entertaining, like Yangus from Dragon Quest 8. But for the most part, you're always using the same teenagers who try to save the world. The only thing that really changes is which order the different stereotypes join. That and sure, sometimes the magic knight is the pervert and sometimes it's the "main character lite", but really it just shuffles the same stereotypes personalities between the same job classes.

Maybe if we got back to the days where we didn't blast every game full of FMVs and dialogue boxes and grinding and what have you, somebody would focus more on the plot and less on making us realize how cliche'd the characters really are. I enjoyed Etrian Odyssey immensely. Part of the reason was, they didn't shove a story down your throat. They let you make all your characters, and they leave any character development to your imagination. Instead, all the text is used just for explaining what you're in the dungeon for, or why you should do that side quest. Pretty bare-bones by today's standards, but I loved it for that.
Frohike's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/15/2009 20:50
Frohike
I think what finally turned me off of JRPG's was precisely what you described. Fabula (narrative) continues to be over the top, syuzhet (plot) is usually a mess, and to be honest, the character "lyrical" mode as you describe just doesn't do it for me. It lacks depth, at least in the way it's currently implemented.

To people who have a habit of reading good novels, this hints at a lack of maturity in the genre; and it's ok for awhile. But it's been decades now, and things need to evolve. I know if you watch anime or read manga, you're accustomed to latching on to characters at the drop of a hat (or telegraphed character type), and I ... sorta blame those two media for limiting JRPGs to what they are now.

Portmanteau characters should be compelling through narrative exposition and a skillful plot. Without them, the only methods left for strong identification between player and character are cliche and melodrama. There's nothing inherently "wrong" with this, but there is something stale non-progressive in it.

Anyway those are my 2 cents on the genre's conceits as you described them. Great article, Joseph.
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