Man, that was why i had to leave boarding school. A few women CAN rape men, but it was the randy boys that made me terrified. I'd rather, I went to school from home, and keep my arse smaller, than have it be raped by some crazy adolescents.
#ExceptionToTheRule
#MenCanRapeMen
#FearTheYaoi
Still seems like an arbitrary standard to me.
One thing I disagree with is that "victim blaming" is restricted to rape, I think lots of people simply don't like to think that bad things can happen just like that, so they make up excuses on why they are different from the victims, why it wouldn't happen to them or their loved ones.
My first point is that the protagonists and antagonists in video games are rarely all that different. Sans the plot, the actions of someone like Nathan Drake are not that far off from the actions of anyone he's shooting. So the question I would end up asking myself, considering I often like to play the bad guy in games (namely because you can actually embrace the fact that you're a diabolical murderer, whereas you're forced to deny it as a good guy despite it being an applicable description), would I want to rape people in video games?
The answer is no, under no circumstance would I like to commit the act of rape in a game. Period.
My second point ties into this: games require an incredible suspension of disbelief. What we're doing in games these days is no different from what games have ever done, despite the subject matter changing. Games rarely have believable characters because there's such a disconnect between what the characters say in cutscenes, and how they act during gameplay.
In essence, what I'm saying is that don't try to force any semblance of realism, especially the especially sociopathic elements, into my face when the rest of the game requires me to suspend enormous amounts of disbelief. Those things just do no, and cannot, go together.
Once gaming gets really real, as in tackling human topics with humans as protagonists instead of unstoppable supermen, wedging in shit like rape will always come off as distasteful. Why? Because the context is inherently all the fuck wrong.
@BkV
The amount of male rape victims PALE in comparison to female ones. It's definitely a problem, but it's never really a problem for the male gender as a whole. It's just something we never worry much about.
@Tristix
Well murdering innocent people is taken more seriously than rape I think. I'm not some magical statistician so I'm not sure, but rape often goes unreported more than murder. Plus this argument goes beyond "bad thing in a game will make people do thing in real life oh no".
The only thing truly comparable to rape may be torture, which probably happens a lot under certain situations, but not enough to be reported.
(disclaimer: just making jokez)
Rape is more of an emotional and relatable subject that victims can recall through imagery and discussion.
It hits closer to home when you see rape in any medium if you were a victim or knew one, wouldn't it? How often can you actually say that personally killing someone or an entire army is a horrible moment in your life?
I'd hate to say that "culture is a social construct", but it kinda is. It's arbitrary, unless you believe in God. Our culture is desensitized to male on male violence that doesn't include sexual taboos. If you start gunning down women in GTA you get your ass kicked by angry men in uniforms, that doesn't violate cultural ideas on violence that much. In Rapelay you can rape helpless women without fear of retribution.
Jim, you were born and raised somewhere in Europe(Sorry, I don't actually know where). I don't think you can truly speak for what's what on this side of the Pond when you simply up and move to one of the most religious parts of the country and then suddenly feel you have a grasp for the rest of the country. Just sayin'
Also, you basically said "Dave Chapelle justified rape" Really, Jim? I actually watched that entire standup appearance and he did not in any way blame the victim or try to imply that at all. He was talking SOLELY about how men get the wrong idea about women and expect a certain sense of looseness in the sense that they are up for a shag because they have their warez on display. I can see how you would confuse that for being pro-rape though. Oh wait, no I can't.
Also, no one needs to be told that rape is bad, just like no one needs to be told that killing is bad. It's one of those things that are inherently human nature. Sure, every now and then we have those that are rapists and murderers but then there are also a percentage of people born gay, as opposed to straight. I'm not comparing the two, just saying that the whole 'omg rape in videogermz' outrage is;
#WORSEthanAIDS
I do agree with Tristrix's point about helpless victims in murder simulators, but I don't think that causes the argument to entirely fall apart, it just throws more levels of nuance into the subject. I do think it shows that, in some contexts, it is hypocritical, but not all (or even most).
I do feel the need to point out that Darklcy paints too simple a picture. Women often have rape fantasies, the key word being "fantasy". Having a fantasy doesn't mean you actually want it to happen in reality. The same goes for men who might have rape fantasies, it's not, in most cases I'd hope, something they'd want to engage in in reality.
Just like how most people all too happy to kill any number of enemies or helpless victims in a videogame are unlikely to have even a slight inclination of doing the same thing in reality.
That distinction between a "fantasy" and an actual desire to act upon in reality is something many people seem to entirely miss.
Well I'm sure lots of people know someone who died and may have be killed by someone else. We all die though, so it's not really something that creates trauma unless that person was REALLY close. Even then it's more so about that person themselves being gone rather than how it happened. Eventually we get over the loss and move on. Most of us.
Makes me wonder how life would be if everyone had a penis (even women, we reproduced through our butts or something) and rape became a more normalized thing among all genders. Would it become a less traumatic experience? Maybe, but it would still be pretty bad. Women would still have the same bodies aside from the penis so it's likely they'd be outmatched. Then there's the issue of having a baby from rape, I wonder how things we be if both genders could become pregnant...
My ideas for human evolution are fucking weird, if you consider this evolution (I don't even know what to call it).
many of those have murder and rape, the difference is,
When it's murder i keep reading/watching.
when it's rape i stop reading/watching it immediately.
it just stays on my mind through the whole thing and leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
that said, murder is still worse then rape.
murder stops everything, but after rape life still goes on.
of course that means you have to live with it,
but at least you still HAVE a chance to live
Here in Quebec, i've way more "sex scene" then violence scene in movie or tv. Maybe it's because we dont have cash for special effect lol.
From our points of you, USA seem to like violent movie and give them 13+ rating but if you see titties it's go up to 18+
But yeah, a raping game, would be weird. Because it's one way like he said.
That's just the thing, GTA violence is Bugs Bunny violence; Mario Violence; Stargate violence. Regardless of how it goes about it, it's violence that's as cartoony as it comes. Most games are, from Mortal Kombat to Dead Space, it's violence that requires you to suspend disbelief. In most cases, to suspend an incredible amount of disbelief.
Games today are no more a good setting for real serious discussion of anything as Stargate was. If games were more The Wire and less Xena: Warrior Princess, there wouldn't be an issue. Thematically, though, a serious rape story would clash with everything else about the game.
It's not that the community has it all wrong (though we probably do), it's that the medium itself just isn't set up for heavy handed shit right now. Not as long as our most personable characters are still unstoppable killing machines.
Either way, while your points are valid, I'm still going on the basis that video games are ultimately fantasy. Much like killing in video games, I say you're free to rape all you want in a fantasy environment so long as you keep that shit restricted to virtual reality, and don't bring it in real life. Say what you will about Japan and their pedo rape fetish games that they joyously frolic in, but their sexual crime rates are 20 times lower than that of the US and most other Western countries that tend to get appalled by such games.
This mostly being backed up by the fact that the "Rape" games you used as an example, Rapelay and Battle Raper, are simply pornographic fetish titles. Y'know, games that exist for little reason than to indulge in a sexual fantasy for you to beat your meat off to. And hell, rape fetishism is hardly restricted to the male gender, and something that existed long, LONG before Video games were even so much as a thought. Once again, no matter how appalling your kink may be, I'll defend any such offending games as allowing people to indulge in a fantasy as opposed to doing it IRL. If we do persecute these ultimately harmless fantasies off store shelves, are we any different from the out-of-touch moral guardians who peg video games as "Murder Simulators"?
I was actually quite surprised by your perspective on this Jim... but all I can say is - well done!
Honestly, its got to be pretty much the same thing for people who get targeted for murder, but the person doing the killing fucks it up and they end up living. Those people aren't going to be the same again, and will be looking over their shoulder for the rest of their lives.
And then, yeah, there's torture, which is pretty much rape without the defiled innocence (well.. hopefully.. but most of the time, probably, no)
Thats probably why. The murdered people may leave behind family that will cry for a while, but as a society we seem okay with that as long as we don't have to look at the victim looking all depressed and scared all the time.
Violence is more the problem, here. Murder is the intent to kill someone, which is exactly like how Rape is the intent to sexually assault someone.
Most games depict killing in an act of self-defense. Even war games have people fighting back. You wouldn't have someone point a gun at you only for you to just sit there and take it.
But rape isn't like that at all. I don't see why we had to have that addressed to anyone, but some people just do not learn.
While I think games revolving around rape are questionable, at best, the idea that rape is an off the table subject in games does require a certain degree of hypocricy when murder is so commonplace. And that's not even talking about, "war" where killing happens, but there are games revolving around murder of otherwise "innocent" people.
But that might just be that most games aren't mature enough to have rape as a subject, for whatever reason, because as a culture we see murder as something that's ok for 13 and up... and that seems to be the mentality driving most games.
This was a good video and brought up many points I hadn't thought about before though, thank you.
Essentially there is no proof either way as to whether the availability of pornography encourages or discourages inappropriate sexual acts. Studies seem to support both sides of the argument and there seems no conclusive evidence at this point.
Unless its a game where you just rape people. Actually id probably play that.
Rape is bad, and while murder is worse, making this statement inadvertently makes rape seem less bad respectively, which is obviously not a good thing. So society over states rape to keep it in peoples minds that it is in fact a horrible atrocious crime, because otherwise many would downplay it(and quite a few still do, if that is any indication)
I may be wrong, but I think that's part of it right there...
That's only because you imagine the woman "raping" you to be attractive and making it enjoyable for you. The reality is unlikely to be as attentive to your wants and needs.
Anyways, I don't think Jim said "women can't rape men, period" he pointed out that it is far less likely to happen. Many times women will be at a physical disadvantage, woman are less likely to be motivated to perform such an act, and it is simply far less likely to happen.
It's not something men need to fear if they're stuck alone with a woman they barely know, being the primary point. It's just not likely.
Well, you shouldn't imagine some fetish situation with an attractive woman, think of something more like Stephen King's Misery.

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