I thought someone already pointed it out that NSMB is a spin off series so way to beat a dead horse lol... Or do you expect innovatin' in mario golf / party / tennis/ soccer / kart too?

Criticizing Mario? Nintendo fanboys are going to go apeshit....

I think its not just Mario, not just Nintendo but the industry as a whole with this sequel culture, giving more of what people love instead of risking something new that in the end will help the industry forward, a lot of especially AAA games are stuck in this. If they aren't copying themselves they are copying others until everything is the same sad brown mess.

Its ok, Nintendo fans will buy anything.

Jim's right, Dante's Inferno 2!!!!

Wow, I didn't agree with you at first Jim but I really see your point. I played the crap out of Super Mario 3D Land and loved it, but it never felt as fresh or exciting as Mario Galaxy. Just as I was thinking about how well Zelda keeps things the same but fresh, you mention it. Kudos mate, great observations.

I actually thought Mario Galaxy 2 was better than 1 in every way possible. Both great, but Galaxy 2 had higher difficulty, longer playtime, on-par or even better level design, streamlined hub, etc.

But I agree a lot with this video. And I will especially agree with it when the next 3D Mario console platformer is yet another retread. Possibly of Mario 64. But then again... another Mario 64 could be amazing.

I'll keep on being very excited for NSMB2 and NSMBU. Both (especially the Wii U version) look astounding.

Mario will always be great to me. Not every mario has had mind blowing new ideas

its more evolution than revolution

Wish I could watch it, but The Escapist thinks that access to video on a mobile platform is a premium service.

I only watch these to hear Jim's voice, and Jester's of the Moon.

Jim lost me when he said sonic 4 was more engaging.........


I wonder why jim didnt talk about mario galaxy or mario wii. any number of really crazy mario games this gen......


hmm

jim I still love you


@tri

mario U is all I want in my life

Personally I also felt like Mario Galaxy shared the same symptoms of more modern aging Mario games. Mario 64 and Mario Sunshine provided the exact same experience before, it only felt refreshing because of Motion controls and the lack of high quality 3D Mario titles in general. That's not to say the game is potentially one of the best designed gameplay experiences of that generation, but it's not really fair to say the buck stops there when it's very clearly showing the aging marks you point out in other, newer Mario games.

Mario, Mario 2, Mario 3, Super Mario World, Mario Kart, Super Mario 3D, Paper Mario, there's your origin titles, and everything else from there is highly derivative. I'll say it again, the huge range of quality in level design and art style from those origins serves to prove Mario can still make a great game from derivative works, but don't make excuses for those great games -- this goes back farther than Mario Galaxy.

Mario's I really like this gen

Mario galaxy 1/2
super paper mario
mario rpg 2 and 3
mario vs dk 2 and 3
new super mario bros wii

Did not like
new super mario bros ds
mario 3d land

Havent played
new super mario bros 2 yet

The distribution is still pretty good for me


I apologize, he did talk about galaxy 1.

So when did Mario start becoming stale and rehashed? It was only two years ago Super Mario Galaxy 2 was out and hailed as the greatest platformer ever and attained the highest critical average this gen.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - fans asked for this. Every new Nintendo platform for the last three generations there has been a shitstorm over there not being a new Mario game at launch or within the first year of the system's release.

Now Nintendo puts Mario into overdrive to get 3DS out of its slump and please initial Wii U owners and they're bitching about how "uninspired" it is BEFORE they've played it.

The situation certainly proves that Nintendo is damned if they do and damned if they don't. This is why Reggie says there's just no pleasing people.

@TSP

Post of the day. You get a gold star.

@Stealth

Except that NSMB provides nothing in regards to the 2 terms you mentioned, its about as stagnant as a game can get. I don't know why I'm saying this since you're the biggest Nintendo fanboy here.

"Mario 64 and Mario Sunshine provided the exact same experience before,"

Did you play them for any length of time? 64 revolutionized what a 3D platformer is, Sunshine introduced the water pack giving you unparalleled mobility, Galaxy had the rotating worlds giving you real trippy ways to get through stages.

The only they had in common was jumping, that's really the problem here with the NSMB franchise, for one its not new anymore and 2nd, its a bunch of re-used stuff out the ass, NSMB2 is the most formulaic Mario game I have ever seen and is such a blatant copy of the original that its honestly mind-blowing, compared the NES version 1, 2 and 3, Mario World to Yoshi's island, clear evolutions in both gameplay and art style.

NSB is just copy and paste old assets and call it a day but as long as idiots keep buying it by the truckload Nintendo will keep shitting them out. And yes I know Mario 2 is re-skin of another game, its still accepted as the canon Mario 2 game.

Your haircut makes you look slimmer. And sexier. What

The New Super Mario Bros-series is a necessary "evil". It's there to appeal to the nostalgia of the "casual" masses so Nintendo can fund the next really good Mario-game. Basically exploit the "casuals" to fund games for the "hardcore". That's my theory at least.

Oh, Them of the Tantalus! These rants don't normally go on this long, Jim must be really sick of Mario.

I haven't played a Mario game since Galaxy 1, but I won't let him slag of MK, as I still haven't seen a racer come close to how much fun MK is.

@kyo

You attack me? then I am the fanboy?

New super mario bros DS I didnt like.

The wii game I felt was pretty damn fresh.

Maybe it was the fact that there hadnt been a 2d mario platformer on a console for 15 year, maybe it was something else.

I also think what jim is looking for, which is a valid point, will be more represented in Mario U, which for the most part has original backgrounds.

I like how big of a topic this is becoming. Also, I think that you should have mentioned Project Giana in this video, as that is a perfect example of how the situation really is. Originally a blatant ripoff of Super Mario Bros., the Giana franchise is now by far outclassing the Mario franchise in terms of creativity, innovation and overall spirit.

Galaxy 2 was a big improvement over the original, it is one of my favourite games of all time. New Super Mario Brothers Wii was really good too,albeit looking a bit derivative and bland, the leveldesign was great and it kept things fresh with new ideas(random encounters on the overworld, 4 player coop,new power-ups etc.).
This makes it 3 great Marios in my book (this gen), that I really enjoyed.

What you, Jim, forgot is that people are scared of changes, do I really need to point out 2 not so well received sequels during the 6th generation, which sold significantly less due being controversial ???
Super Mario Sunshine
The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker

Nintendo was/is in a tight spot at the moment, they want the 3DS sales to take off and their Wii U to succeed. I can understand they want to minimize the risk of causing controversies.

@The Silent Protagonist: Exactly

Wait, did you just skip over Majora's Mask? You know, the only Zelda game that offered a gameplay not only centered around clearing dungeons, as well as an original plot, amazing characters, and chilling atmosphere?

And Jim gave CoD MW3 a 9.5...,clearly Nintendo hasn´t paid him enough.
"Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 treads familiar ground and focuses on tweaking rather than reinventing, and that's just fine."

I don´t know how to insert a troll face, so just imagine one :D.

I came here to say what The Silent Protagonist said.

very few companies have series so revered they are damned if they do damned if they dont.

Nintendo has a bunch, square particularly is screwed either way if they remake ff 7, bioware just joined the group

Funny how I reached the same conclusion around the time of super mario sunshine, Jim. These games are great, colorful, and the mechanics are great but damn if I don't see every curveball coming by the third stage. Maybe I'm just old, but if they're marketing to nostalgia, they sure aren't hitting me.

I agree except for Mario Kart 7 that game is amazing, and the best Kart Racer I've ever played. Also as others mentioned Galaxy 2 was better than Galaxy 1, and it still felt fresh.

As huge of a nintendo fanboy as i am, this videos 100% right mario's kinda been dethroned to me lately in terms of both platforming and kart racing. Rayman is strangley climbing up and i think sonic 4 has done a better job than all 3 new super mario bros. still, im getting a premonition that mario's gonna do something really fantastic when a 3d mario game's out on wii u.

I'll also say that the fans sorta had a doin in this. All they want is "traditional mario". I loved Mario 2 and Sunshine for daring to evolve Mario and for bein really fantastic games in general. I have a feeling Mario will play cathc up when the Wii U is out though. Wow, thats the longest comment i ever wrote.

Calling the New Super Mario Bros. games "spinoffs" is a really stupid argument when you look at some other Mario spinoffs, such as Paper Mario and Mario vs. Donkey Kong which are more original Mario games than most of the main games in the series.


Mario, Mario, Mario, mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario,

I agree, Nintendo seems lost. Sometimes I think it arrogance, and other times I think they have become ignorant. Probably both.

Wow my comment looks too negative, thats what i get for typing on my ipod and not seein the whole thing. i forgot to mention that in terms of 3d platformers, Mario takes the cake. When i bought 3D Land, I completed the game in one sitting cause i was so sucked in. Either way, i think Mario will do better in 2D next gen and will stay golden in 3d as well. Mario Kart U will make me nervous.

Really good episode Jim. Couldn't agree with you more on the Mario Kart series. I only played a little bit of Mario Kart 7 and found it to be completely uninteresting and boring. My brother who's a huge Mario Kart fan and played Mario Kart DS for probably hundreds of hours was massively letdown with Mario Kart 7. The series needs a massive change.

I loved Mario Kart Double Dash and to me it was one of the greatest Gamecube games, but everything after that has been totally disappointing in comparison. Mario Kart DS was a great game but didn't really do anything new besides the online play. The games after that I felt were completely phoning it in and were only about the money. I was so looking forward to a new Mario Kart on Wii and thought it would be as radical as Mario Kart Double Dash but it was essentially Mario Kart DS with bikes. It killed all my hopes and interest for Mario Kart Wii and I didn't even bother buying it. Mario Kart 7 was more of the same. Graphically is was a step up from Mario Kart DS but it was completely inferior to Mario Kart DS in every way. Not to mention they casualized the game and took several step backwards from Mario Kart DS. Mario Kart 7 was the death knell for the series.

I hope one day Nintendo will release a Mario Kart game as great as Double Dash, which to me is the pinnacle of the series. Until then I don't give a fuck about the series anymore.

@The Silent Protagonist: I guess the point started to get shown when new platformers, something even from Nintendo proved that they can do better; and Mario kept doing new old games. When it was the only option, people didn't complain much, but when it turns out other franchise are doing more to advance the genre that the game that helped define it, people start paying attention.

Rayman Origins is a better, more fresh platformer Mario has been in years. Kirby's last two games are far more interesting than Mario's last two games. Super Meat Boy was great for people that wanted that challenging experience Mario doesn't have since SM3. And the list keeps growing...

Did we all forget about 3D Land, already??

Yes. New Super Mario is artistically mediocre. But Mario is still pushing the industry forward. Wait until the first 3D Mario on Wii U.

And when I said "forget", I mean "forget everything interesting that it did", not "forget that it exists". I know Jim addressed it in the video, but I don't feel like he gave the thing enough credit.

*shrug* I'm still having fun with dem Mario games. Can't see a reason for myself to wonder if there needs to be more innovation if I'm sitting there with a big shit-eating grin on my face... Or a scowl as I did once again if I'm on multiplayer.

The New Super Mario Bros Series of games isn't the mainline Mario series.

That's why they are called "New" despite not being that new at all.

They are even made by the same team, whereas main Mario games are always made by new teams to keep them fresh.

I think the worry is unfounded.

This is exactly why I stopped playing Mario games- Nintendo refuses to do anything new, so I refuse to keep buying them. I agree that Galaxy was the last one that felt really engaging.

To me it feels like a real Mario game hasn't come out since Sunshine. I played a little bit of Galaxy and have zero interest in playing any more.

There have been plenty of fantastic 2D sidescrollers in the past few years, but point me to one 3D classic style platformer that touches, even comes close to Mario Galaxy and its sequel.

NSMB can burn for all I care, but Galaxy is chocolate italian plumber sex via a Wiimote.

I expected stealth to be madder, but the "there will be new backgrounds" thing was funny

yeah I agree, rayman, VVVVVV, super meat boy, the bar is pretty high for mario, he needs to find a way to be relevant again

Nintendo really needs to stop playing it safe and make radical changes in their games again. They probably don't want to do that because when they did it in the Gamecube era the Gamecube sold horribly, but some of their franchises are growing stale. The 3DS has been a bit disappointing in the stagnation of a lot of their series. Paper Mario Sticker Star might still be a great game but it looks like it's taking a massive step back from the series. Mario Kart 7 was a complete casualized retread of Mario Kart DS. NSMB2 is apparently just more of the same. I'm slowly getting disinterested unless they reinvigorate their franchises again. The only game I'm interested from Nintendo right now is Pokemon Black/White 2, which is kind of ironic.

@long john

In the past perphaps I would of been. I dunno. People can think what they want

for me the ratio of good to bad marios this gen was about 5 good for every 1 bad

and to be thats fine

I'm just hoping that the main Mario games can keep up their usual quality rather than ending up as rehashed as some of his party games. I understand why Nintendo is doing this, fans clamoring for more Mario games, and the fact that his spin-offs and 2-D games sell 8x more units than the inovative 3-D ones. As long as rehashing doesn't become the norm I'm fine with that. I am afraid for Nintendo's future though, I'm not one of those idiots screaming DOOOOOOMED, but I fear that Nintendo is on their way to losing the things I love about them, and bringing their games down with them. Let's hope that they have more to show for the Wii-U other than a couple good games, a mass of party/casual games, and 3rd party games that are already out for other systems by the time it is August 2013.

I must be the only person on Earth who thinks the first Galaxy was far superior to the second one.

As far as the article goes, I haven't played a single Mario game that's disappointed me yet (that was made by Nintendo, anyway), so I'm good.

(Classic me, can't watch the video yet. Yadda Yadda)

Look at it this way: It's kinda clear Mario being Mario hasn't been enough since Mario 3, when Mario needed multiple suits to be interesting.

Yeah, those suits ARE interesting, and they make for awesome gameplay/gameplay choices.. But when when Mario needs extra bits of flair to get from point A to B, that doesn't REALLY matter if they're used or not, other then just eating a mushroom to become a bigger version of himself, I can see that just being him isn't enough.

Honestly doesn't matter to me though, if the games are fun I'll play them, even if they dip too deep into the honey pot of old gameplay.