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I never really thought about it, but you are exactly right Jim Sterling. About everything. Ever.
Of the topic at hand, however, like a few others in this thread, I have too many games that I haven't played and\or finished as it is. As gamers grow older, they have less and less time to spend playing games. I find it hard working through my backlog as it is, why do I want to pay $60 for something I likely won't get around to playing for months at which point there will be a "complete edition" with all the dlc much cheaper than it is now? True, games have always gotten cheaper as time goes by, but nowadays, if you wait, you get a much better version of the game. For less money.
Now do I hate publishers for this? Of course not! I get a better version of the game for less money. I just wish publishers would own up to it and stop bitching when they don't get super awesome sales the first week.
Of the topic at hand, however, like a few others in this thread, I have too many games that I haven't played and\or finished as it is. As gamers grow older, they have less and less time to spend playing games. I find it hard working through my backlog as it is, why do I want to pay $60 for something I likely won't get around to playing for months at which point there will be a "complete edition" with all the dlc much cheaper than it is now? True, games have always gotten cheaper as time goes by, but nowadays, if you wait, you get a much better version of the game. For less money.
Now do I hate publishers for this? Of course not! I get a better version of the game for less money. I just wish publishers would own up to it and stop bitching when they don't get super awesome sales the first week.
one more comment I have to say it is stupid for people complaining about prices going down thats just how things work and have been for a while now. something comes out and after a few months the price goes down this is nothing new. my biggest worry is if the 720 or the ps4 go all digital they wont do this because it seems like prices never go down on digital games for ps3 or 360 while a place like amazon makes games cheap pretty quickly.
My sentiments exactly. I enjoyed MK, but I still feel ripped off. I wanted to play L.A Noire, but I don't buy console versions of games pretty much anymore (what can I say Steam treats me well) and was waiting for it to go on sell. Then I hear rumors of it g\coming to PC so I wait for that. PC version finally gets here with all DLC included and I wait about month month in a half and Steam has it on sell for $12.50. So I get a brand new fing game for the price you would pay for an indie game or extremely shitty AAA game.
The sad thing is you're right in that I don't feel safe in buying a game mostly because I am afraid that in a month they are going to release a Ultimate edition of the game or GOTY version. Mind you this happen with Marvel Vs Capcom 3. With the promise of two dlc characters when you got the better edition. Now I was expecting them to do more DLC. Not saying they were going to but with the two DLC characters I figured they would release more through DLC. Mind you I would have bought them all because I am a glutton for punishment.
This never happen since they announced that they were going to release the Ultimate edition and at a cheaper price. Since then I have been very wary about buying any game afraid of wasting money I don't have to spend any more on games I like to buy when they first come out. Also being jilted when they release the so called better version a few months later fora cheaper price and you expect me to dish out more money for something I already have so you make me not wnat to buy your stuff at full price any more . No w you really want me to buy it at a cheaper price . As you said when the big price cut happens , or the ultimate edition or GOTY EDITION COMES OUT. So yeah I do agree with what you said in this one. Though I don't worship the ground you walk on.
This never happen since they announced that they were going to release the Ultimate edition and at a cheaper price. Since then I have been very wary about buying any game afraid of wasting money I don't have to spend any more on games I like to buy when they first come out. Also being jilted when they release the so called better version a few months later fora cheaper price and you expect me to dish out more money for something I already have so you make me not wnat to buy your stuff at full price any more . No w you really want me to buy it at a cheaper price . As you said when the big price cut happens , or the ultimate edition or GOTY EDITION COMES OUT. So yeah I do agree with what you said in this one. Though I don't worship the ground you walk on.
A possible partial fix for this would be the title, allow the collectors editions to include a DLC pass for all the content in the future "Complete" version.
Freakin' Civilization 5 lost a sale from me this weekend. I was about to buy it on the cheap, but then I noticed, "oh hey there is a GOTY edition, I will get that instead". Well it turns out GOTY =/= Complete as half of the friggin' DLC was not even included with the GOTY edition. To top it off there is still talks of more DLC. Frustrated by the whole experience I purchased another game instead.
My approach to being a consumer in the game world is to wait a couple months to purchase games. Not necessarily for the price to go down, but to wait for patches, to see whether there is a thriving community or emerging modders, observe whether it is a DLC spewing machine (sometimes good, other times bad), to see if a "complete" edition comes out or is in the works, and get genuine opinions from friends who have adopted the game at release and have beaten/played the game. The fact that games often drop in price just further adds to the abundance of reasons not to purchase a game at release. Hell, even the limited/collector edition's can still be found of some games a month or so after release, but at a cheaper price. Do not get me wrong, I do buy the occasionally full price new game, but gosh it is hard to argue against waiting. Throw in my huge backlog of games, and then well, I do not need that shiny, new game at release.
My approach to being a consumer in the game world is to wait a couple months to purchase games. Not necessarily for the price to go down, but to wait for patches, to see whether there is a thriving community or emerging modders, observe whether it is a DLC spewing machine (sometimes good, other times bad), to see if a "complete" edition comes out or is in the works, and get genuine opinions from friends who have adopted the game at release and have beaten/played the game. The fact that games often drop in price just further adds to the abundance of reasons not to purchase a game at release. Hell, even the limited/collector edition's can still be found of some games a month or so after release, but at a cheaper price. Do not get me wrong, I do buy the occasionally full price new game, but gosh it is hard to argue against waiting. Throw in my huge backlog of games, and then well, I do not need that shiny, new game at release.
First of all, Thank You Jim.
I'm still pissed of at what Capcom did to MVC fans after that UMVC3 fiasco and have told myself not to get Capcom Titles on Year 1 and wait for the 2nd or 3rd year before getting one, ergo Super Street Fighter 4 Arcade Edition.
Ticked me off when Mortal Kombat announced the Komplete Edition after loyal fans like me bought MK day 1 and poured extra cash for the DLCs that came only to get this Komplete Edition kick us hard in the nuts.
Moral of the story, going to wait and hold back against doing early purchase as it is not worth it considering the dick moves you mentioned publishers are doing.
By the way, the new Twisted Metal is going to included Twisted Metal Black for the first print edition copies and I'd bet that in a few months they would release a Twisted Metal Twisted Edition with Twisted Metal Black and all DLCs that will come after release.
Again Thank you Jim!!
I'm still pissed of at what Capcom did to MVC fans after that UMVC3 fiasco and have told myself not to get Capcom Titles on Year 1 and wait for the 2nd or 3rd year before getting one, ergo Super Street Fighter 4 Arcade Edition.
Ticked me off when Mortal Kombat announced the Komplete Edition after loyal fans like me bought MK day 1 and poured extra cash for the DLCs that came only to get this Komplete Edition kick us hard in the nuts.
Moral of the story, going to wait and hold back against doing early purchase as it is not worth it considering the dick moves you mentioned publishers are doing.
By the way, the new Twisted Metal is going to included Twisted Metal Black for the first print edition copies and I'd bet that in a few months they would release a Twisted Metal Twisted Edition with Twisted Metal Black and all DLCs that will come after release.
Again Thank you Jim!!
I laugh at people when they tell me they just got a new game for $60. They justify it to themselves in various ways, but it's just stupid these days. Even if you want a game on release day you don't have to pay full price, and if you just wait 3 months you canusually get it for $30... wait a year and all the DLC is yours included in the game. Hell, wait a while and you can get those collectors editions dirt cheap too, when they have left over stock, stores want to get rid of them cheap (especially when the goty editions are coming out).
This episode of the Jimquisition should be required viewing for all games publishers. You have hit the industry's weak point for massive damage!
God I'm glad you bring up CEs of games nobody knows what the fuck are yet or if they are any good.
Like the 'Balls of Steel' Edition of Duke Nukem Forever.
Like the 'Balls of Steel' Edition of Duke Nukem Forever.
I agree completely Sterling. I hope some smart publisher will hear you out. Its a long shot but who knows.
Publishers love to blame others whenever they are unsuccessful and shoot themselves in the foot. Online passes restrict their audience by not letting people try a game before spending $60 on it. New IPs just can't compete with established franchises when they cost the same. Instead of spending huge amounts of money on new projects, make a smaller game and sell it for a low price. XBLA, PSN, and Stream work great for this, just look at what independent developers have been doing lately. Don't punish consumers, change your business model to work with them.
I agree with your points in this one. I think you under emphasized the DLC aspect though. Day Zero DLC, on-disk DLC, and the expensive cost of most DLC released can easily turn what was a 60$ game into a $100+ purchase.
I don't believe it's so cut and dried. For starters, hanging out for the complete bundle means you miss out on playing a game for a year or so. What the complete version does is keep a year old game FULL PRICE at retail and out of the bargain bin. The added content may be enough to sway tightarses.
Sounds like good business to me.
Sounds like good business to me.
This was a good one. You really are one of the only games journalists that gives a voice to the frustrated, and abused consumer. Keep it up. That's one of your stronger subjects for sure.
@Stinky
The value on playing a game earlier than others is hard to measure. For myself, simply playing a game is good enough. The timeframe in which I do it is meaningless. I do agree that complete editions are still sometimes priced at full retail, but think about how much more game you are getting in that case? 60 dollars base game or 60 dollars base game plus six dlc packs? Even then, just waiting a month after the complete pack and a place lack amazon will have a forty dollar sale. Like someone else said. I waited not even a year to get LA Noire and was able to get the complete edition on PC for $12.50. I mean that is straight nutty.
The value on playing a game earlier than others is hard to measure. For myself, simply playing a game is good enough. The timeframe in which I do it is meaningless. I do agree that complete editions are still sometimes priced at full retail, but think about how much more game you are getting in that case? 60 dollars base game or 60 dollars base game plus six dlc packs? Even then, just waiting a month after the complete pack and a place lack amazon will have a forty dollar sale. Like someone else said. I waited not even a year to get LA Noire and was able to get the complete edition on PC for $12.50. I mean that is straight nutty.
Really, missing out on a couple of pieces of DLC doesn't bother me much. If a game is good, the experience you get when you play it makes it worth it, and not getting some new costumes or an extra level doesn't affect that experience. Still, I do think that it can make people feel cheated missing out on a slice of the cake that is their game.
That's exactly why I've been buying only Nintendo games at release date for years:
1. Very stable in price, 2. No complete etc. editions.
Thus, it was for me: Skyward Sword = yes, Skyrim = no (t yet)...
1. Very stable in price, 2. No complete etc. editions.
Thus, it was for me: Skyward Sword = yes, Skyrim = no (t yet)...
Absolutely right. For the past 2 years at least I've largely given up on day one purchases. I still buy the odd brand new game from time to time, but by and large I wait for a sale or the ultimate edition. Or better yet, a sale of the ultimate edition! Heck, I bought LA Noire Complete edition on a 50% off Steam sale less than 3 FREAKING WEEKS after the game launched!! Even worse (or better, depending on who you ask) it's come to the point where I often consider that 50% off is not enough! Sometimes I see a game I want with 50% discount and I think "nah, I'll wait a bit longer, soon it will be 75% off anyways. And guess what? That's exactly what happens.
These game of the year editions can be good and bad imo.
As much love as I have for Mortal Kombat, if anybody doesn't believe that it was their plan all along to release an "ultimate" edition, you're probably wrong.
But with games like Fallout, Borderlands and Oblivion, a goty edition is a blessing for those with a 4GB hard drive or no internet capabilities at all.
And collector's editiond...*facepalms*...don't get me started. As someone who's shelves are cluttered with more swag than I'm prepared to admit, I've finally begun to say "NO" to all these ridiculous "limited" editions. Still love my artbooks and steelbooks though, but I can score those on ebay.
As much love as I have for Mortal Kombat, if anybody doesn't believe that it was their plan all along to release an "ultimate" edition, you're probably wrong.
But with games like Fallout, Borderlands and Oblivion, a goty edition is a blessing for those with a 4GB hard drive or no internet capabilities at all.
And collector's editiond...*facepalms*...don't get me started. As someone who's shelves are cluttered with more swag than I'm prepared to admit, I've finally begun to say "NO" to all these ridiculous "limited" editions. Still love my artbooks and steelbooks though, but I can score those on ebay.
Here's the thing...
Games are priced at 60 dollars out of the gate for the fanbois, the guys who just cannot wait to buy it. That's perfectly fine.
The price drops, for the rest of us. A little later on, the price drops again, for those that didn't really have much interest but took a second look on a Steam sale or something. That is also perfectly fine.
The smart consumer will wait. The fanboi, being the fanboi that he or she is, will not wait. They have their reasons, and are perfectly comfortable with their choices.
Massive sales bite into the used game market, and send the money to the developer instead of Gamestop. I think it's an ingenious alternative to DRM. Look at all the big sales lately. I bet most of us now have a backlog of games we bought on the cheap. A chunk of that money went to the developer instead of Gamestop's pockets.
Games are priced at 60 dollars out of the gate for the fanbois, the guys who just cannot wait to buy it. That's perfectly fine.
The price drops, for the rest of us. A little later on, the price drops again, for those that didn't really have much interest but took a second look on a Steam sale or something. That is also perfectly fine.
The smart consumer will wait. The fanboi, being the fanboi that he or she is, will not wait. They have their reasons, and are perfectly comfortable with their choices.
Massive sales bite into the used game market, and send the money to the developer instead of Gamestop. I think it's an ingenious alternative to DRM. Look at all the big sales lately. I bet most of us now have a backlog of games we bought on the cheap. A chunk of that money went to the developer instead of Gamestop's pockets.
Well if the game industries abusive practices have taught me anything its to be patient, So I can't agree with you more Jim.
Maybe if they stopped shipping broken games and piecemealing out incomplete games. Maybe if they backed off their prices. Oh the mountain of maybes that would see me out adopting games on release day/week. But we will likely just see more of the same.
Also Thank you Jim.
Maybe if they stopped shipping broken games and piecemealing out incomplete games. Maybe if they backed off their prices. Oh the mountain of maybes that would see me out adopting games on release day/week. But we will likely just see more of the same.
Also Thank you Jim.
I trust you Jim and yes the publishers have pushes me into the corner to not buy their game at launch day. Most of time I've waited til the price dropped to 20-30$ or buy an used copy of the game.
I can't always agree with you Jim (WITCHER 2 OMG WHY) but at least you bring up some damn good points.
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