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CocoJambo: Nah dude, it's not as magical as the Vagina Monologues makes it sound. But that's neither here nor there re: female character models.
-Ninja-: "Because while women do find themselves in combat, it's very rare compared to men. And yes I know it's very silly, but I enjoy some feeling of authenticity in military shooters."
It is not silly at all, man. If a woman would like to play as a woman she should just install some mods that change the character models. Almost all people in direct combat are men that that's what FPS are about.
Jim, it's too much, man. How come you get so invested in the topic? Preparing for a sex change to finally be with Holmes?
It is not silly at all, man. If a woman would like to play as a woman she should just install some mods that change the character models. Almost all people in direct combat are men that that's what FPS are about.
Jim, it's too much, man. How come you get so invested in the topic? Preparing for a sex change to finally be with Holmes?
@q tf... actually Ninja had it about right. In countries like Canada, women are equals in our military and able to join any unit/aspect. They make up around 15% of the military and from what I've read they are anywhere from 5 to 7 percent of front line forces. While the American military still apparently has a policy of women not serving on the front lines, there are females that have won the Silver Star (google Leigh Ann Hester). I'm not sure what the percentage is for those deployed to action zones (serving in "support" positions, though as many have noted, there no longer are any front lines and even support positions must be trained and often encounter action)
Even if only 5% of women are serving on the front lines... in video games it often seems closer to 0%. They aren't even representing current reality, just what Americans seem to want to think of as reality.
Even if only 5% of women are serving on the front lines... in video games it often seems closer to 0%. They aren't even representing current reality, just what Americans seem to want to think of as reality.
Oh... and I hate to drag this out again, but if you want to talk "reality"... much of reality for many who serve in war zones is doing endlessly boring patrols... until you hit an IED and die. Game over. No excitement, no gunfire... just instant death. "Real" war would make for an extremely boring game.
Video games are NOT a war emulator... in any sense.
Video games are NOT a war emulator... in any sense.
Yeah, the lack of female avatars in games makes me kinda uncomfortable at times. I mean, in some games there are reasons to it, like Space Marine, Red Orchestra (or any WWII shooter), y'know... but for games like Tribes Ascend which has before in the series had male and female models and voice actors, there's no excuse.
As far as military shooters go there's a simple reason: women aren't allowed to be combat troops in most armies and almost certainly won't be in the foreseeable future. But non military FPS games have tons of female characters. I know mass effect is a hybrid but just try creating a balanced squad without a female character.
i think Metal Gear Online and Uncharted multiplayer really brought some cool customizations for women, especially Metal Gear Online
in fact free to play games from asia countries always have more customizable options for both male and female.
don't know why western gaming hadn't catch up on that.
also in Uncharted 3 you play as Marlowe, a fucking old hag owning up people.
what up :P
in fact free to play games from asia countries always have more customizable options for both male and female.
don't know why western gaming hadn't catch up on that.
also in Uncharted 3 you play as Marlowe, a fucking old hag owning up people.
what up :P
Looking for solutions to a problem that doesn't really exist? Or is it a need to just pick fights over things that aren't really a matter of sexism?
What do I know? Nothing, because I've got a penis.
What do I know? Nothing, because I've got a penis.
...actually it may not have made sense for women to be playable in Space Marine, but it would have been interesting to run into the Sisters of Battle in the game.... assuming they are still a legit army anyway (hey, it happens... the Genestealers used to have their own army.)
But that aside, my take away is a little bit of shock, actually... I thought we did away with hitboxes around 2004 with DOOM 3! Wow.... I feel kinda... cheated...
But that aside, my take away is a little bit of shock, actually... I thought we did away with hitboxes around 2004 with DOOM 3! Wow.... I feel kinda... cheated...
As for women finding themselves in combat "frequently", in the american forces if you are a woman and exchanging gunfire, that was an entirely unexpected combat situation. In games like CoD and BF3, those are coordinated and planned combat situations.
That being said, lots of forces around the world allow women to assume combat roles. Also, it's a videogame, so who fucking cares. Put some chick models to use in there. Not like they are hyper-realistic anyways.
That being said, lots of forces around the world allow women to assume combat roles. Also, it's a videogame, so who fucking cares. Put some chick models to use in there. Not like they are hyper-realistic anyways.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=LpFk5F-S_hI
Jim i urge you to watch this video series before the next inevitable article on Anita Sarkesian's series. She is a sham and a joke of a feminist
Jim i urge you to watch this video series before the next inevitable article on Anita Sarkesian's series. She is a sham and a joke of a feminist
my friend's mother made $263164 so far just working on the laptop for a few hours. Read more here N u t t y R i c h dot cOm
Actually lets get the sausage fest started again, pull out your copy of Quake (or Nexuiz for people to deal with older graphics) Lets get the arena death match back "the skilled FPS games"
and put COD back into the casual bind
and put COD back into the casual bind
It's always nice to have both sexes represented, but not at the cost of authenticity. If you jam a female character in an elite forces unit that historically has never had women in it...that just seems like pandering, and a worse story is told because of it.
Well Jim is from UK so cross-dressing was bound to happen at some point. Also, less sausage-fest is a good thing.
That's one of the things Gears 3 did really right. Not only were women included, but they were just as important as the men and just as tough and armored. No eye candy bullshit, female characters that made sense in the world.
While I do agree overall that it'd be nice to have more options for female avatars, I had to facepalm at the examples. Call of Duty is (mostly) about Spec Ops units, of which there are only a few females on the front lines as a "cultural/intel outreach" program. I'll be more than shocked if anyone else here has honestly even heard of it beforehand. Battlefield actually has you play as a female WSO. Yes, that's just the campaign, but when you're going for a realistic military shooter, having large groups of women running around in combat scenarios just doesn't make sense.
Also, I've only skimmed a few of the recent comments, but I don't think I've seen ME3 here yet as a gender equal example.
Also, I've only skimmed a few of the recent comments, but I don't think I've seen ME3 here yet as a gender equal example.
Jim, that exercising you're doing is definitely working. Your tits are definitely smaller! :p
Yeah, it's a bummer situation. I'm not excusing it but I can see why companies don't, as it is extra work and people are both cheap and lazy. I don't think it's anything insidious, but more customization options is always a good thing and aside from the aforementioned cheapness/laziness there isn't any reason to not do it.
Yeah, it's a bummer situation. I'm not excusing it but I can see why companies don't, as it is extra work and people are both cheap and lazy. I don't think it's anything insidious, but more customization options is always a good thing and aside from the aforementioned cheapness/laziness there isn't any reason to not do it.
I totally forgot about this (think I posted it before), but check out this banner for Colonial Marines that was at Rezzed:
Female marine in the promotional material, but not in the game?! o_O
Female marine in the promotional material, but not in the game?! o_O
Statistically, the overwhelming majority of the US armed forces that sees combat is male. Women aren't even allowed to serve in certain roles if they wanted to. This is the case for the majority of nations in the world. If your goal is to create a realistic, authentic, and/or believable cast of characters, it's not surprising that you don't include women in military shooters. It's just he fact of the matter. Accept it and more on.
More often that not, when you try and force a female character into a military shooter in order to make it "fair" or "equal" they just come off like stock, token characters that play into the same tropes that have plagued the representation of women in the arts for centuries. Have you seen GI Jane? Exactly. Even in futuristic settings you end up with atrocious characters like Vasquez. And yes, she's fucking terrible and I will never understand why people like you defend her character.
No offense Jim, but this is the type of stuff people see and then turn around and use to straw man their defenses of the way games like Hitman, Lollipop Chainsaw, and Tomb Raider have been shameless marketed. You're making this shit worse, not better.
Oh, and they're putting female soldiers in Black Ops II. And the president is a woman. There you go. Equality. Teh futurez. Woo-hoo. I'm sure that won't feel forced at all.
More often that not, when you try and force a female character into a military shooter in order to make it "fair" or "equal" they just come off like stock, token characters that play into the same tropes that have plagued the representation of women in the arts for centuries. Have you seen GI Jane? Exactly. Even in futuristic settings you end up with atrocious characters like Vasquez. And yes, she's fucking terrible and I will never understand why people like you defend her character.
No offense Jim, but this is the type of stuff people see and then turn around and use to straw man their defenses of the way games like Hitman, Lollipop Chainsaw, and Tomb Raider have been shameless marketed. You're making this shit worse, not better.
Oh, and they're putting female soldiers in Black Ops II. And the president is a woman. There you go. Equality. Teh futurez. Woo-hoo. I'm sure that won't feel forced at all.
I agree, I was really displeased to hear Colonial Marines wouldn't have female MP characters, in part because it's y'know Aliens but also because I kinda expected more from Gearbox. I've always thought female characters in MP is a good idea if only because it stops games developing into a 'who can be the whitest guy' contest.
I think maybe developers are getting wary of including women the more realistic games get because the issue of violence against women in videogames is still a huge issue and they don't want to piss anybody off or offend anybody.
Also, you looked real pretty Jim ;)
I think maybe developers are getting wary of including women the more realistic games get because the issue of violence against women in videogames is still a huge issue and they don't want to piss anybody off or offend anybody.
Also, you looked real pretty Jim ;)
I feel like there must be some connection between Gearbox failing to include female characters in Alien: Colonal Marines, and also being involved with Duke Nukem Forever--supposedly one of the most misogynist games in recent history.
@Jinx 01
i think i've seen women in the single player campaign which makes the fact that there are no female models in multiplayer even stranger
i think i've seen women in the single player campaign which makes the fact that there are no female models in multiplayer even stranger
Boring topic. Just let people buy what they freaking want. Don't take differing tastes in entertainment as an opportunity to rant/lecture about obvious stuff that doesn't actually change what people want to play.
I used to play a lot of Lost Planet 2 - yes, it's not the greatest of games - but I enjoyed it and always used to pick the female character models in the multiplayer modes. It's was a lovely change from the usual shooter sausage fest.
Yeah lets just shove women in anything and not give a fuck if it makes sense or not. Ppl all acting PC in here! Fuck man, women are not in the front lines, why would BF or CoD feature women? Just because? Well fuck then why not fat fuckers like Jim on the battlefield? Oh you mean soldiers are usualy in shape? Fuck that, lets not descriminate against fat bastards! And lets not forget about race! Lets put both male and female black, white, hispanic, asian and native american skins! Shit, what about height? Tall and short too! Fuck, age? What old folks cant be represented in Cod you discriminating bastards?
@JacBravo... I know that "facts" are apparently something you don't want to face and you would much rather believe the video game fiction... but
"American women now make up 14 percent of our armed forces and, as of 2008, there were 57 female generals or admirals on active duty, including six with three-star rank and one who had achieved four stars. More than 220,000 women have served in Iraq and Afghanistan, and more than 100 have been killed and thousands wounded. While American women can be assigned to most units in the military, they can only be attached to those engaged in ground combat. And the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have shown that the difference between being assigned to a ground combat unit or attached to the unit — a practice used to circumvent the prohibition on women in combat — is a distinction without a difference."
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2011-10-18/news/bs-ed-women-combat-20111018_1_combat-roles-combat-positions-military-leadership-diversity-commission
The United States senate has been looking at this issue and there is a push to remove the restriction on women on the front lines... there really are no front lines in a war anymore. Other countries (Israel, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, etc.) now allow women to serve in ALL combat roles.
In regards to special forces, American's have been finding ways around this restriction too. There are highly trained females that form the CST (Cultural Support Team) that are attached to special forces units like the Rangers. They are brought in after an area is cleared and used to search females/children or to communicate with females. The unit has been fairly successful and there' s no reason to think that females might not be a more visible part of special forces units in the future - especially when deployed in countries with strong gender divides.
Given the short history of women in the American military, and given the restrictions they have to work against, they've come a long way in a short time. It's not at all unrealistic to think that in the near future there will not only be more women on the front lines, but also women directly in special forces units (instead of simply being "attached" to special forces units).
Any BF or CoD game set in the near future could realistically include females.
(and do remember that in WW2 the Soviets utilized female snipers, infantry and even all female tank crews)
Women are not a majority on the front lines, and likely never will be... but they are there, they've been there and the numbers are likely to grow. "Realistic" military shooters could certainly have the occasional female... and retain their sense of realism... unless that would be an affront to your manhood - while you sit at home playing your videa gamez.. while men AND women serve overseas in various war zones?
"American women now make up 14 percent of our armed forces and, as of 2008, there were 57 female generals or admirals on active duty, including six with three-star rank and one who had achieved four stars. More than 220,000 women have served in Iraq and Afghanistan, and more than 100 have been killed and thousands wounded. While American women can be assigned to most units in the military, they can only be attached to those engaged in ground combat. And the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have shown that the difference between being assigned to a ground combat unit or attached to the unit — a practice used to circumvent the prohibition on women in combat — is a distinction without a difference."
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2011-10-18/news/bs-ed-women-combat-20111018_1_combat-roles-combat-positions-military-leadership-diversity-commission
The United States senate has been looking at this issue and there is a push to remove the restriction on women on the front lines... there really are no front lines in a war anymore. Other countries (Israel, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, etc.) now allow women to serve in ALL combat roles.
In regards to special forces, American's have been finding ways around this restriction too. There are highly trained females that form the CST (Cultural Support Team) that are attached to special forces units like the Rangers. They are brought in after an area is cleared and used to search females/children or to communicate with females. The unit has been fairly successful and there' s no reason to think that females might not be a more visible part of special forces units in the future - especially when deployed in countries with strong gender divides.
Given the short history of women in the American military, and given the restrictions they have to work against, they've come a long way in a short time. It's not at all unrealistic to think that in the near future there will not only be more women on the front lines, but also women directly in special forces units (instead of simply being "attached" to special forces units).
Any BF or CoD game set in the near future could realistically include females.
(and do remember that in WW2 the Soviets utilized female snipers, infantry and even all female tank crews)
Women are not a majority on the front lines, and likely never will be... but they are there, they've been there and the numbers are likely to grow. "Realistic" military shooters could certainly have the occasional female... and retain their sense of realism... unless that would be an affront to your manhood - while you sit at home playing your videa gamez.. while men AND women serve overseas in various war zones?
Well said, Jim. I’ve personaly always wondered why many games (not just shooters) don’t offer players at least some form of character customization. It doesn’t even need to be extensive. Halo: Reach would be a good example to follow.
That said, I understand that sometimes the decision to stick with a male protagonist is purely because of narrative, like in The Witcher for instance. But in games like, say, Call of Duty, where the protagonist is just a cookie-cutter character and doesn't have any meaningful impact on the storyline, I really don’t see why we can’t have the option to play as a woman.
That said, I understand that sometimes the decision to stick with a male protagonist is purely because of narrative, like in The Witcher for instance. But in games like, say, Call of Duty, where the protagonist is just a cookie-cutter character and doesn't have any meaningful impact on the storyline, I really don’t see why we can’t have the option to play as a woman.
I totally agree.
I always prefer female characters (even though I'm a male). I like to think it's because they're always more interesting and have way better styles... Although, it's more likely to be because I'm a bloody pervert.
Almost all of my favorite game characters are female; The Boss (MGS3), 'Shadow Marshal' Luger (Killzone), Gum/Rhyth/Cube (Jet Set Radio Future), Faith (Mirror's Edge), Ibuki (Street Fighter), Lilith (Borderlands), Strangelove (MGS: Peace Walker), Lara (Tomb Raider), Kat (Halo Reach), Chloe (Uncharted 2)... They're always more interesting.
I personally think a lot more effort goes into female characters, both design and personality-wise. Whereas males are almost always the big, muscular, grunty, hard-man stereotype.
I always prefer female characters (even though I'm a male). I like to think it's because they're always more interesting and have way better styles... Although, it's more likely to be because I'm a bloody pervert.
Almost all of my favorite game characters are female; The Boss (MGS3), 'Shadow Marshal' Luger (Killzone), Gum/Rhyth/Cube (Jet Set Radio Future), Faith (Mirror's Edge), Ibuki (Street Fighter), Lilith (Borderlands), Strangelove (MGS: Peace Walker), Lara (Tomb Raider), Kat (Halo Reach), Chloe (Uncharted 2)... They're always more interesting.
I personally think a lot more effort goes into female characters, both design and personality-wise. Whereas males are almost always the big, muscular, grunty, hard-man stereotype.
Lots of females commenting about avatars and customizable appearance... Now that is what modern games need the most !
@elsa I did not say that women would suck in the front lines, did I? :D
The point is, TODAY, women are not relevant in front lines combat so there is no point in bitching and moaning about women not being represented in games which glorify and emulate such combat situation. Frankly, god´s honest truth, i do not give a fuck if women are allowed in combat and when that happens, you might be surprised but i might even be asking for videogames give them their space in such FPS´s and all that shit. What annoys me is that sense that, fuck it, this is a somewhat realistic game but lets throw some chick skins in there just because that will make chicks (and Jim) happy!
I loathe politicaly correct actions and those who support them. And you want to know something funny? I dont even play CoD or BF!
The point is, TODAY, women are not relevant in front lines combat so there is no point in bitching and moaning about women not being represented in games which glorify and emulate such combat situation. Frankly, god´s honest truth, i do not give a fuck if women are allowed in combat and when that happens, you might be surprised but i might even be asking for videogames give them their space in such FPS´s and all that shit. What annoys me is that sense that, fuck it, this is a somewhat realistic game but lets throw some chick skins in there just because that will make chicks (and Jim) happy!
I loathe politicaly correct actions and those who support them. And you want to know something funny? I dont even play CoD or BF!
Sausage fest? here are some recent shooters that I can recall that has playable female charters on it: SOCOM 4, Gears of War 3, Bioshock 2, Borderlands 1-2(i know it's an RPG but a you can play it as a shooter), Uncharted 2-3, HALO Reach, Syndicate(2012), Left 4 dead 1-2, Farcry 3, MGS4, Planetside 2, Resident evil series(yes the current releases are considered shooters now) Darkness 2, Max Payne 3, SR3, Tomb Raider (2013)(It's not a survival sim it's Shooter with weak RPG elements), ME2-ME3 (yes the Mass Effect's RPG elements is so weak that people considered it as shooter now), Batman Gotham Imposters etc. the sausage fest has ended a long time ago Jimmy and your reaction is late again just like your "Consoles are just crappy PC" vid.
as Billy explained I didnt know that a stay at home mom able to get paid $7613 in a few weeks on the computer. have you read this webpage NuttyRich.com
It's good to see a balanced mind on the sexism topic. Aka, someone who calls "foul" when people throw around the word thoughtlessly yet likewise takes it seriously when it has merit. Props to you Jimbo!
I've flirted with dude-bro shoot-fests through exposure to Gears Of War 2. It was "alright" but I had the same complaint as the one here concerning the absence of playable female characters. Luckily, Epic remedied that in GOW 3. (Though I still need to pick it up)
As for COD? It's not a bad fps, it just never appealed to me.
I find in these types of games most people end up taking them too seriously anyway. I remember when a guy I was gaming with got irate we couldn't complete all 50 waves in horde mode one night. He was totally bent out of shape about it. I imagine it's just as bad in COD.
I also admit the "make me a sandwich" "racial slur" and "tea bag" jokes still fly around fast & furious.
Sure, total maturity is no fun at all but at the same time people should try to refrain from crossing certain lines.
By the way,I can't believe Ripley is not unlockable in Colonial Marines. Heck, even RE 5 threw in Rebecca and Barry for mercenaries mode!
I've flirted with dude-bro shoot-fests through exposure to Gears Of War 2. It was "alright" but I had the same complaint as the one here concerning the absence of playable female characters. Luckily, Epic remedied that in GOW 3. (Though I still need to pick it up)
As for COD? It's not a bad fps, it just never appealed to me.
I find in these types of games most people end up taking them too seriously anyway. I remember when a guy I was gaming with got irate we couldn't complete all 50 waves in horde mode one night. He was totally bent out of shape about it. I imagine it's just as bad in COD.
I also admit the "make me a sandwich" "racial slur" and "tea bag" jokes still fly around fast & furious.
Sure, total maturity is no fun at all but at the same time people should try to refrain from crossing certain lines.
By the way,I can't believe Ripley is not unlockable in Colonial Marines. Heck, even RE 5 threw in Rebecca and Barry for mercenaries mode!
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