And don't come back at me with any silly comebacks like you do. Just shut up and do a game.
I know this is probably the highlight of your life having someone like Jaffe tell you to shut up, but just go do a game, and maybe you might do something good for this industry.
God of War FTW.
Also, developers and publishers aren't cowards for not taking more chances. There are millions of dollars at risk with every game.
And I think it's incredibly easy to criticize from the outside looking in. And Bedroom coding a little "game" doesn't help to qualify your statement either.
Debating game design as whole is entirely out of your or my league, and it's probably pretty insensitive of the hard working people in the industry.
But they are not interested. And I don't buy the story about pitches etc. Even if it would be the case: If the industry would incourage new ideas, new ideas will pop up. But the industry doesn't.
Wrong! These Topics matter in a large scale for the medium! Discussions are necessary in order for the medium to move forward.
::shrugs and goes back to enjoying cold pizza and coke::
I am fascinated by this discussion. I hope it continues. :)
This. Just don't kill each other.
I agree with this 99.9%. Anthony certainly doesn't have the same perspective on the industry and development, nor does he have the experience, that David has. However, I don't necessarily think that makes his opinion, questions, or thoughts on what he'd like from gaming invalid. I don't think it was his intention to disrespect designers, either, regardless of how it comes off.
And for the record, I my thoughts on this probably lie closer to David's than Anthony's.
::shakes head and grabs a napkin::
Jaffe: We are trying but it isnt easy
Simple terms
Thus is the problem. I think it really would be hard to make Passage both engaging AND long enough to make it into something retail. As much as it was enjoyable, unless you drastically changed it from the simple and short vision it is now, possibly to something completely different, I can't see it being that well done. It would more...drag it out to become boring then give that immediate impact that I got from it.
He knows ... or [http://www.destructoid.com/luc-bernard-and-alex-neuse-take-on-runner--131213.phtml] should... [/url]
Thats just me...
Also, REAL TIME INTERACTIVE INTERNETS!
I thought Flower and Flow where artistic games and they are both Sony related.
I actually think Microsoft make less arty farty games.
I own both consoles and am not a fan of either (just to make that clear).
Neither am I saying arty games are good or bad.
I;m just a little lsot, perhaps because I have not had the time to watch the videos and have only scan read very quickly the main points of the text. (me bad).
I'm also not sure where the line is drawn on weether a game is artistic or not? Is GTAIV artistic? Some would say so, whilst others would not.
What premise or boxes need to be ticked for this classification?
Maybe I'm over simplifying it. But look at Fable II. Its partway there, I think, on a component implementation sort of level.
I wouldn't really take the words of David Jaffe too much to heart. For one thing one of his most famous franchises does focus around cars what have guns strapped to them.. he's hardly the most original of characters. Besides that, I don't understand what the hell he is saying.
First he believes that we don't know how to make games that evoke any feelings beyond 'Yay I'm having fun', but at the same time he thinks we should shut up? Why not.. talk about it, discuss it, collaborate and then create a way of making these things. Which clearly I take personally because.. Mr. Jaffe.. people ARE already doing this. It isn't bullshit. Your explanation is bullshit.
I feel silly actually even trying to have either an arguement or discussion about this because I'm sure there's nothing I could say to make him any less of a douche. If he knows Shadow of the Colossus exists and doesn't consider it a game which understands how to do things beyond 'fun', and actually engages the player on a range of emotional levels as it is intended to do, then he is a god damn idiot.
SOTC and ICO were both games created with that intention, and they achieved their goals. They are titles from the previous generation, and Jaffe doesn't even acknowledge them as examples of what he believes actually cannot be done, probably because it actually proves him wrong, or at the very least incredibly narrow sighted.
His inadequacy as a commentor of this subject is almost insultingly obvious.
Claiming that on this path we will be in the same situation in 50 years etc is a bit false IMO, especially when you consider the overall changes in the industry. Games have changed massively from being blocks getting to a goal or whatever to games that attempt to have a morality system and stories of loss etc.
Yeah we haven't truly gotten into the trend of making artful games, but to be honest I don't think the film industry has entirely got to the point either. Sure there's plenty of films but that's over a much larger span of time.
Our beloved industry technically still is in it's infancy and I think we are making very small steps towards the goal of having a truly mature and widely understood industry. I think we see a lot more indie developers creating "art games" because they have a much more suitable way of distributing their games.
On a larger scale I think that many developers are still making the baby steps in the safest way possible, most likely because developers don't have the power to make the exact product they want to, the games Anthony has noted have very powerful and determined teams behind them.

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