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Wait, so Sony is pushing it? Then why all the used game sales laments of the devs? Sony should love used sales since it gets people playing PS3's. Why would they purposefully shoot themselves in the foot?
Oh wait. Sony does = self defeating behavior. Just looked at their tack on the Everything this gen. especially the vita.
Oh wait. Sony does = self defeating behavior. Just looked at their tack on the Everything this gen. especially the vita.
My wife and I can't wait for this game! I doubt it will be very good (everything seen so far is really sloppy), but we love the franchise.
As for this story, either way Jaffe is coming out on top. He can say he doesn't want online passes to save face and maybe get some more fan sales, and Sony will probably put it in anyways.
As for this story, either way Jaffe is coming out on top. He can say he doesn't want online passes to save face and maybe get some more fan sales, and Sony will probably put it in anyways.
MrFloppyknickers - Sony doesn't make money on selling consoles, they make money on selling games (retail or PSN) by taking a cut from the publisher for each copy sold. They hate used sales just as much as publishers.
Too bad, Online Passes For Everyone!!!! even people who don't intend to buy the game, or own a ps3, or have the internet, or even have fingers to play the game.
I've never understood this thought process. Is it something along the lines of "Sixty fucking dollars? Are you kidding me?!...Oh, fifty five dollars? Now we're talking business." Fucking over the developer for less money than a big mac costs, well that just seems asinine to me.
@dtomek
Gamestop isn't the only store that sells used games. Actually, Gamefly is the best when it comes to used game sales.
Gamestop isn't the only store that sells used games. Actually, Gamefly is the best when it comes to used game sales.
Nice to hear that not all developers want to butt rape their customers. Why take cash from skint gamers surely they can come to agreement with retailers for a minor surcharge on used games so they get cash from single player and old games as well
@ MrFloppyknickers
In this instance Twisted Metal is a SONY IP.
In addition maybe SONY likes to see some royalties from the devs. My GUESS is, that they pay royalties for every unit they ship to a vendor. So SONY might not be keen on used game sales, since they miss out on royalties, because the vendors don't do any backorders... but that's just a wild guess.
In this instance Twisted Metal is a SONY IP.
In addition maybe SONY likes to see some royalties from the devs. My GUESS is, that they pay royalties for every unit they ship to a vendor. So SONY might not be keen on used game sales, since they miss out on royalties, because the vendors don't do any backorders... but that's just a wild guess.
I recommend reading the full blog post he made. Basically he said if there was another Twisted Metal he'd put one in there once the fanbase is revived. Basically trust me now and I'll screw you later.
@dtomek
You can also make the same argument in the other direction. For lowering the price of their game by less than the price of a (Generic hamburger sandwich) developers could potentially turn those used sales into new purchases ...... but why the hell would they ever lower their prices and increase their profits by volume.
You can also make the same argument in the other direction. For lowering the price of their game by less than the price of a (Generic hamburger sandwich) developers could potentially turn those used sales into new purchases ...... but why the hell would they ever lower their prices and increase their profits by volume.
@njsykora
Don't worry I read this article with all the crocodile tears/smiles implied. You hear one waffling empty promise, you have heard them all.
Don't worry I read this article with all the crocodile tears/smiles implied. You hear one waffling empty promise, you have heard them all.
For clarification more of a waffling empty sentiment than a promise.... needs my daily cup-o-coffee :P
Sony: "We're attaching an online pass to this project, by the way."
David Jaffe: "Implying you aren't requiring every new game to have an online pass."
(Both): "Hahaha!"
Sony: "So you aren't worried about any negative feedback then?"
David Jaffe: "Pfft! No. I'll just post some bogus remark about how I don't mind piracy and pass the blame onto you!
Sony: "Excellent! So! Shall we take your solid-gold jet to the golf course, or should we take ours?"
David Jaffe: "Yours, mine is still in the shop, so I've been running around with an *ugh* solid-silver jet"
Sony: "Gross!"
David Jaffe: "I know right?!"
(Both): "Money fight!"
David Jaffe: "Implying you aren't requiring every new game to have an online pass."
(Both): "Hahaha!"
Sony: "So you aren't worried about any negative feedback then?"
David Jaffe: "Pfft! No. I'll just post some bogus remark about how I don't mind piracy and pass the blame onto you!
Sony: "Excellent! So! Shall we take your solid-gold jet to the golf course, or should we take ours?"
David Jaffe: "Yours, mine is still in the shop, so I've been running around with an *ugh* solid-silver jet"
Sony: "Gross!"
David Jaffe: "I know right?!"
(Both): "Money fight!"
@njsykora
Man if there is someone I trust not to screw me over in this industry its David Jaffe but like he said its not up to him. The man is probably one of the few with an honest opinion in this industry and he is willing to tell it to you straight... Hell this game likely wont sell huge amounts and still he wants to make it, if all the man wanted was money he could have just kept on making God of War...Pretty much a franchise that will always sell...
Man if there is someone I trust not to screw me over in this industry its David Jaffe but like he said its not up to him. The man is probably one of the few with an honest opinion in this industry and he is willing to tell it to you straight... Hell this game likely wont sell huge amounts and still he wants to make it, if all the man wanted was money he could have just kept on making God of War...Pretty much a franchise that will always sell...
Twisted metal 2 was my second playstation 1 game (my first being crash bandicoot 2) I remeber seeing Axel on the cover and I immediatly bought it ever since I fell inlove with the series i find it strange how ps3 hasn't even had a twisted metal game yet, so hopefully there will be more a HD collection would be pretty great to.
@Ace
That's true, and gamefly does rock. If only there was a way to specifically target Gamestop...Anyways, if you are actually getting a reasonable discount on your used game then you should be able to pony up for the online pass that much easier. Then you can actually give the people who made the things you like some money, so they can make more things you like.
That's true, and gamefly does rock. If only there was a way to specifically target Gamestop...Anyways, if you are actually getting a reasonable discount on your used game then you should be able to pony up for the online pass that much easier. Then you can actually give the people who made the things you like some money, so they can make more things you like.
It's sad that Sony gets the end line after a developer puts so much effort into their title, but I'm with you on this. At least Jaffe isn't being an ass about the situation.
While I do think publishers are going the wrong way about combating used games/piracy, why should it bother anybody who aren't perpetrators of it?
@STRYKIE
Because of shit like EA who give away codes that don't even work and then force somebody to jump through hoops on a wasted $60 purchase.
Because of shit like EA who give away codes that don't even work and then force somebody to jump through hoops on a wasted $60 purchase.
Oh, also, this is apparently the only business that somehow sees itself too good for the second hand market. I don't see car manufacturers charging someone a "freeway pass" when they buy a used car.
Woops, the comment before was supposed to on in the contest thread for Dead Island, if there's a mod around would you kindly delete it?
@Wakatashi
Yeah but there are addition differences....
Like the state actually providing and maintaining the roads in their transit system. Where as game companies are offering little more than a match making hub and leeching the customers bandwidth to host the games.
That would be like the state taking all the additional registration fees, handing you a shovel and asking you to tell them how the roads work out. Of course they would charge you for the shovel that would be "DLC"....
Yeah but there are addition differences....
Like the state actually providing and maintaining the roads in their transit system. Where as game companies are offering little more than a match making hub and leeching the customers bandwidth to host the games.
That would be like the state taking all the additional registration fees, handing you a shovel and asking you to tell them how the roads work out. Of course they would charge you for the shovel that would be "DLC"....
But do the car manufacturers themselves charge you additional fees for purchasing a used car from someone else?
God dammit. Did someone start that used car analogy bullshit again? That has to be the worst fucking analogy on the face of the planet. The only thing that might rival it would be the "stealing a car" analogy in piracy discussions.
Dear gamers
Fucking stop it with the car analogies.
Sincerely,
Common Sense
Dear gamers
Fucking stop it with the car analogies.
Sincerely,
Common Sense
@tekbunny
But do you get an identical experience buying used as to that of someone buying new? The answer is decidedly no. Things that aren't software will inevitably degrade through use and age. Software code will not. One person could buy one game and pass that code on to every single person on the planet. The software will perform identically to new throughout every person's using it. What other products work this way? This is why secondhand software is an entirely different beast, and frankly they have to do something to differentiate new from used. How exactly to go about that should be the debate. The debate should not be, "Used software is the same as used physical products, and therefore should be treated identically."
But do you get an identical experience buying used as to that of someone buying new? The answer is decidedly no. Things that aren't software will inevitably degrade through use and age. Software code will not. One person could buy one game and pass that code on to every single person on the planet. The software will perform identically to new throughout every person's using it. What other products work this way? This is why secondhand software is an entirely different beast, and frankly they have to do something to differentiate new from used. How exactly to go about that should be the debate. The debate should not be, "Used software is the same as used physical products, and therefore should be treated identically."
@Tristix
Ok fine, let's try a different analogy. DVD and book publishers don't charge you an "eye pass" when you buy/rent a movie or buy/get a book from the library.
Ok fine, let's try a different analogy. DVD and book publishers don't charge you an "eye pass" when you buy/rent a movie or buy/get a book from the library.
@Tristrix
No analogy pans out at best you can get to point, counterpoint, counter-counterpoint, counter-counter-counterpoint and so on.
Online passes only pan out if they are running dedicated servers which almost no companies do because its easier to shirk the bandwidth off on the consumers. When they do however run dedicated servers I can totally justify online passes (See: almost never)
No analogy pans out at best you can get to point, counterpoint, counter-counterpoint, counter-counter-counterpoint and so on.
Online passes only pan out if they are running dedicated servers which almost no companies do because its easier to shirk the bandwidth off on the consumers. When they do however run dedicated servers I can totally justify online passes (See: almost never)
Agreed tristy
to dtomek, sometimes you find cars with newer/better parts for the same/cheaper price than a newer version of it.
Hence why the cars analogy is stupid. It makes us all right and all wrong at the same time.
My argument still stands that this kind of stuff has always been in games and gaming culture, and forcing one to pay for things that were once free is an obvious cash grab.
If they all start doing dlc like tf2, I stop bitching. plain and simple.
to dtomek, sometimes you find cars with newer/better parts for the same/cheaper price than a newer version of it.
Hence why the cars analogy is stupid. It makes us all right and all wrong at the same time.
My argument still stands that this kind of stuff has always been in games and gaming culture, and forcing one to pay for things that were once free is an obvious cash grab.
If they all start doing dlc like tf2, I stop bitching. plain and simple.
@Kanten
Dude, just stop. Analogies aren't going to get your point across here, because there's not one to be made. The video game industry is, by definition and necessity, a whole different ballgame from anything else you could possibly come up with. It has to be discussed on its own merits.
The best you're gonna get out of an attempted analogy is a straw man anyway (it's stupid with this other unrelated thing so it's totally stupid here too!) so that's really not going to help you very much.
Dude, just stop. Analogies aren't going to get your point across here, because there's not one to be made. The video game industry is, by definition and necessity, a whole different ballgame from anything else you could possibly come up with. It has to be discussed on its own merits.
The best you're gonna get out of an attempted analogy is a straw man anyway (it's stupid with this other unrelated thing so it's totally stupid here too!) so that's really not going to help you very much.
@Kanten
Innocent until proven guilty, it's rather silly to hold EA's botched, kneejerk cover-ups (just on the 360, wasn't it?) to 1 component of a game a couple of months from release, developed on a platform by an internal studio I might add.
Innocent until proven guilty, it's rather silly to hold EA's botched, kneejerk cover-ups (just on the 360, wasn't it?) to 1 component of a game a couple of months from release, developed on a platform by an internal studio I might add.
If many Japanese developers follow up on this online (p)ass scheme then I think I'll just quit console gaming.
Aside from arguing over how it screws over 2nd hand gamers, other issues for 1st time buyers have come up which show that online passes just ass further annoyance with no payoff.
Aside from arguing over how it screws over 2nd hand gamers, other issues for 1st time buyers have come up which show that online passes just ass further annoyance with no payoff.
I get the feeling that what Jaffe wants won't exactly be what Jaffe gets from Sony.
@Magnalon
The last one aside -only because for whatever reason I passed by it, so I can't comment on it- every Twisted Metal game was sloppy. It didn't stop them from being damn fun, though (but you know that part).
@Magnalon
The last one aside -only because for whatever reason I passed by it, so I can't comment on it- every Twisted Metal game was sloppy. It didn't stop them from being damn fun, though (but you know that part).
So, Jaffe doesn't want an Online Pass in THIS particular 'comeback' TM game after realizing that 1.) he's working on a game in a fairly old niche series that doesn't have that much demand for it, 2.) is releasing in the spring, and 3.) after seeing Resistance 3 not do all that hot and noting that IT had an online pass.
Yeah, he's a rock ribbed 'man of the people' who really gets preservation of consumer value alright. Sure.
Yeah, he's a rock ribbed 'man of the people' who really gets preservation of consumer value alright. Sure.
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