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Is the dual-stick controller a game design crutch? photo

It has been nearly two months since Nintendo unveiled the 3DS Slide Pad Expansion (Circle Pad Pro in the West). Despite the initial cries of "Nubageddon," the fervor has since died down, allowing everyone to reflect upon the news with an open mind and clearer perspective. Some have concluded that this move is proof that the 3DS hardware was rushed to market, whereas others have dismissed it as just another peripheral that will soon join the ranks of the Super Scope, e-Reader, and Wii Balance Board.

I have drawn a completely different conclusion, however. In attempting to rationalize the absolute necessity of a second pad for Nintendo's latest handheld, I broadened my scope to include the very concept of the dual-stick controller. What has the second analog stick brought to the table? Why has it become a staple of console gaming? What gaming experiences would be impossible without it?

The truth is that I simply see no real justification for the Circle Pad Pro's existence. In fact, I believe the dual-stick controller is a stopgap that has overstayed its welcome.


[Image from Don Hertzfeldt's Anesthetics comic strip]

Allow me to offer some insight into my personal gaming sensibilities.

I am a very precise and calculating person -- extremely meticulous and borderline neurotic. I am a strong proponent of that old proverb, "A place for everything and everything in its place." I keep my room tidy and my work space organized. Hell, I even like to line up my pens so that their lengths run parallel to the edge of the desk. Whenever I see a neighbor's garage so cluttered with junk that cars cannot actually be parked inside, I get a little antsy. That's the kind of crazy I am.

Naturally, this behavior carries over into hobbies such as gaming. I have an issue with what I consider controller bloat -- the need for manufacturers to add more and more functions to input devices regardless of logic, necessity, and ergonomics. Despite the abundance of available options, some devs still don't have enough space to map all their "needed" commands.

If you want a good example of a nonessential controller addition, consider the "select" button on the Nintendo Entertainment System. That thing was so utterly useless that devs opted to remove functions from elsewhere in order to give "select" something, anything to do. Remember how many "player select" or "password" screens could only be navigated by pressing "select" rather than the directions on the D-pad? Then once the game began, "select" was never used again? Please tell me I wasn't the only person who thought that was six degrees of stupid.

Modern games don't fare much better, with "select" dedicated almost solely to opening some secondary inventory menu. At the very least, though, the "select" button is an innocuous fixture that doesn't impede regular play, so I can't bitch too much about its shortcomings. The same can't be said of the second analog stick, the inclusion of which does impact game design and play significantly.

No matter how you slice it, the second analog stick was a byproduct of the advent of 3D gaming. Analog control was introduced because three-dimensional space could not be adequately navigated with a simple D-pad. Unfortunately, the addition of depth meant that the previously fixed camera would have to be scrapped in favor of a more dynamic one. This was never an issue with older software, where movement was restricted to single plane and the camera could remain locked on your avatar.

The camera is, without a doubt, one the biggest shortcomings of 3D, free-roaming videogames. It's kind of difficult to focus on the action when your view is obstructed by a giant box in the foreground or fixated on a featureless rock wall. A complete overhaul of the camera would be required to prevent such scenarios, but devs were still trying to get a handle on player movement in the third dimension. If they couldn't figure the camera out, they would do the next best thing -- give the player direct camera control.

Sony would eventually release a dual-stick version of its PlayStation controller, but Nintendo had already incorporated some of that "second stick" functionality right on the Nintendo 64 controller. The aptly named C buttons allowed players to reorient the camera in Super Mario 64 and other 3D platformers. Sure, there were some serious hiccups, but it was decent solution to the problem... for the time.

Ideally, the camera should not be user-controlled. It was a developer-level issue that had been passed on to the player because the devs couldn't come up with a decent solution of their own. This should have been a temporary measure until something better came along. How would you feel if whenever you watched a movie, you had to manipulate a device in your hand to find an optimal viewing angle for every scene, all because the cinematographer thought that properly framing the shots himself was too hard?

The kicker is that better solutions exist yet haven't replaced the "old standard." Instead of a free camera, Ocarina of Time delivered the innovative Z-targeting mechanic whereby pressing the Z button would fix the camera on the nearest enemy or behind the player when no enemies were present. Then there have been games like God of War that featured cinematic framing and never once asked the players to get their hands dirty. The former example still allows some control freedom while condensing the capabilities to a context-sensitive button, while the latter completely eliminates any obligation on behalf of the player.

At least the N64's C buttons had the benefit of being actual buttons in games that didn't require camera control. This multipurpose flexibility is lost on modern dual-stick controllers where the second stick is effectively a dedicated camera crane. Yes, there are a few games that find alternative jobs for the stick to perform, but I'd hardly call them the norm. When one-off devices like the EyeToy or MotionPlus get derided for their lack of use outside of a handful of titles, I see no reason why we can't level the same complaints against a controller feature that's so rarely exploited beyond a function that I doubt anyone truly enjoys.

Doesn't it bother you that, in order to operate the stick, you have to remove your thumb from the main button panel since you can't operate both at the same time without adopting some unorthodox, claw-like controller grip? Is this actually a welcome function in any game, or is it a burden that we begrudgingly accept because, by golly, that's how it's been done for over a decade? We've fallen into the trap of accepting mediocrity simply because we aren't accustomed to anything else.

I am disgusted that many modern games still suffer from the same pitfalls that annoyed players back on the friggin' N64. Know who's fault that is? Developers and the hardware manufacturers who cater to their every whim. They aren't going to step up their game when maintaining the status quo requires very little thought and effort. With the myriad options available to them, devs choose the safe and familiar, an ethic that pervades most branches of modern game design.

I don't want anyone to think this is just about camera controls, though -- this is about failing to capitalize on potential. I've played games that made great use of that second stick. One example that immediately pops in my head is the Katamari series, in which you roll your giant ball o' stuff like it was an RC car with independent left and right wheel drive. But when it comes to gaming, you can't trust a few sporadic flashes of genius to spark a chain reaction throughout the industry. It's like a child with a box of LEGOs who can't build anything unless it's spelled out in a full-color instruction manual.

Something I have yet to address is the first-person shooter genre. With Call of Duty and its ilk dominating the landscape, console gamers associate dual sticks with FPS more than anything else. I admit that dual-stick shooting controls have been refined over the last decade, but let's not pretend that they are the end-all and be-all, especially in the face of the superior mouse.

Again, there have been advancements in this area. The Wii Remote and PlayStation Move trump the standard pad in every area when it comes to shooters. The complaints that players have against these alternatives, and the reasons devs haven't capitalized on them, are fear of needing to acclimate themselves with a new setup and ignorance of motion controls. That Ken Levine pretty much had to be dragged kicking and screaming to implement Move controls in BioShock Infinite, despite the obvious benefits, should demonstrate how little the industry cares about deviating from the norm.

The moment I knew with utmost certainty that dual-stick controls were the tip of a much deeper problem was with the announcement of the Circle Pad Pro. People must have had it in their heads that one of the primary reasons for the PSP's failure to completely dominate the handheld landscape was its lack of a second analog stick (no, it wasn't). How else could you explain why they were furious that a second stick wasn't included on the 3DS from the outset?

If this was such a huge issue, why were people so excited for the 3DS during the E3 10 reveal? The hardware clearly lacked a second stick, yet no one was up in arms. Why raise a stink now? Do people think that crappy software like Bust-a-Move Universe is somehow linked to stick's omission? Has the 3DS suddenly become an "incomplete" machine, and will every game from here until the peripheral's release suffer for lack of nub?

I think it's unfair and extremely shortsighted that anyone can say the 3DS is lacking in control options when it has a stick, a D-pad, four face buttons, two shoulder triggers, a gyroscope sensor, and a touch screen. The touch screen alone offers a wealth of possibilities that makes a second stick much, much more than a bit redundant.

The Circle Pad Pro is being released alongside Monster Hunter 3G, so if any game is be the perfect demonstration of why the add-on is absolutely necessary, this would be it. However, as I've observed previously, the game incorporates a variant of Z-targeting, eliminating any need for more direct camera control in most situations. Even if you do need further control, the touch screen offers an easily accessible virtual D-pad -- in addition to a map and inventory hot keys. Let's see a stick pull that off!

I can only see the Circle Pad Pro causing confusion among gamers who believe the existence of this Frankenstein abomination implies that the current controls are ineffectual. Never mind that the original DS has one of the most varied and popular libraries of software of any console ever, a feat which it accomplished without any sticks at all. Naturally, a second stick is imperative.

I can hazard a guess as to why Nintendo designed this peripheral. In an effort to attract the third-party support it so desperately craves, Nintendo wanted to extend an invitation to those devs that refused to make portable software because the control schemes weren't 100% identical. Capcom may be making a concerted effort to ensure that the default controls are spectacular, but I know there are going to be a few apples in the bunch that are more interested in "relevancy." A second stick is not needed in any way, shape, or form, and I guarantee that Nintendo was perfectly aware of that but pulled this stunt anyway.

I'm not sold on the idea that just because something has been done one way means we must carry on the tradition. Just because we've had two analog sticks on our controllers since the late '90s doesn't mean that they must be permanent fixtures in successive generations. The jobs that the second stick performs can be done better -- and in some cases have already been done better -- by more logical and intuitive means, but the only way for that to happen is for the industry to collectively agree to step out of its comfort zone. Fat chance of that happening, though.

Maybe I'm wrong for wanting more significant changes. Maybe I ought to behave more like a good little Charlie Consumer and accept matters beyond my power. But then I remember how anal retentive I am and I cross my arms in a huff.








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Tony Ponce (aka megaStryke) is a culturally confused, Canadian-born Puerto Rican who grew up in Japan and South Florida ... yet can only speak English. He specializes in writing features and maintaining an immaculate goatee. Likes: Any and all things related to Mega Man, Contra, Castlevania, 2D, PB&J sandwiches, applesauce, and candy corn. Meet the rest of the team



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324 comments | showing # 1 to 50
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Floameh's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/29/2011 16:07
Floameh
Ooo Waaa!?
Shadowstew's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/29/2011 16:07
Shadowstew
Tru True.
pedrovay2003's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/29/2011 16:08
pedrovay2003
I wouldn't say it's a crutch, but after playing games like GoldenEye and Metroid Prime on the Wii, I think it's outdated as hell.
Kanten's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/29/2011 16:09
Kanten
Keyboard and mouse.
RoverTHX's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/29/2011 16:13
RoverTHX
For some reason I thought the Circle pad pro R2 and L2 buttons were their own thing, but I'm being told that they're just alternative L and R buttons.

Despite the fact that they're already in reach as well as a new R button for the circle pad pro.

But hell I'm getting it for my large hands so even if that new 3DS+ comes out with those built in I bet that thing is going to be uncomfortable for me, is it wrong for me to spend 20 dollars for comfort?
Epic-Kx's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/29/2011 16:13
Epic-Kx
Keyboard and mouse.
Janklogs's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/29/2011 16:14
Janklogs
...and here come the PC Master Race (tm)...
heyricochet's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/29/2011 16:15
heyricochet
Sorry, the wii remote and move controller are not solid replacements for dual sticks. I can sit and play FPS for hours on my tv with dual sticks, but with wii/move my wrist hurts after 30 minutes. Repetitive stress injury anyone?

FPS alone is why any console needs dual sticks, its the most popular genre currently and you gave it just a tiny paragraph. Your argument is lacking without a strong rebuttal to that besides wiimote, move, and a mouse/keyboard which is not easily used on a couch.
Laharl-KOTNW's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/29/2011 16:16
Laharl-KOTNW
I agree completely, the 3DS doesn't need a second stick with its wealth of control options. However 3rd parties are lazy as hell, as you mentioned, and aren't willing to take advantage of what the 3DS brings to the table. Unless they get a second stick, they'll just continue to make lazy ports.
Jawmuncher's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/29/2011 16:17
Jawmuncher
If the keyboard and mouse has been for as long as it has with no change.
I feel a dual stick controller really doesn't need much changing either. If you ask me they work and do what's intended.

Now show me a new controller that can do everything intended and is still comfterable and easy to learn then I'll change my tone.
Courtney Roberts's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/29/2011 16:17
Courtney Roberts
Honestly i think that the one controller nature of consoles is the problem rather than the developers. I too wish we had more games like ape escape, but the surprising step of nintendo not having a second analogue was like shutting the door on certain genres of games to devs, and they like consumers want to make stuff that is unchallenging rather than the crazy control schemes for say metroid hunters.

I honestly love katamari, and ape escape; but the two stick thing is never gonna go away from here id wager.
ThrashingLimbsEd's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/29/2011 16:19
ThrashingLimbsEd
Yeah this is just complete bollocks.

I respect that the writer feels this way but he is sooo far from being the norm. Most people would hate having no control over the camera and or using motion control (ok you can get used to aiming with it but it really isn't any fun for long periods of play).
JFF's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/29/2011 16:20
JFF
Mouse and keyboard.
Maniac's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/29/2011 16:20
Maniac
Yes, with the extreme exception of FPSs and third-person shooters.
LastFencer's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/29/2011 16:22
LastFencer
So if every game incorporated a virtual d-pad on the right of the touch screen, then problem solved?
corna's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/29/2011 16:23
corna
You're right that dual-sticks aren't all that important, especially where console FPSs aren't concerned, but I also don't see how it's a significant flaw. It's nice to have that extra freedom to look around in 3D games. Z-targetting works for combat, but what about when you just want to get a nice look around?
And the Wiimote/Move-is-better-for-FPSs thing is silly: apart from the fact that even that statement is pretty debatable, they aren't suitable for very many other genres, so they won't become a standard: much of the time a Wiimote or Move controller will be just like a select button, except it's not just a button but a whole controller.
Jawmuncher's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/29/2011 16:23
Jawmuncher
Mouse and Keyboards


Herp Derp
Dreggsao's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/29/2011 16:24
Dreggsao
always when i play Ocarina of Time or Majoras Mask again i think to myself: "Oh yeah i forgot... no direct camera control... that sucks". As long as we play games on a screen we need to control the camera in a lot of games and that is where i think we still haven't found a better solution than the second stick (or a mouse). And no i don't have a problem to remove my thumb from the face-buttons to use the stick because usually the face buttons have no functions u need when you would rotate the camera.
JQM78's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/29/2011 16:24
JQM78
I think the touch screen in itself has proven to work great as a second analog stick.....

Take for instance how great it worked on metroid prime hunters and the cod franchise on DS. I don't think there's a need for a second stick on the DS, that's why the touch screen is there!!
Fr33Kye's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/29/2011 16:26
Fr33Kye
Yea i figured this would come. Nintendo release an underpowered system and then power doesn't matter, they release a handheld without an analog and suddenly we don't need analogs either! Yay! No but really i don't see any reason to leave it out. Why not have a touch screen AND two analogs! How amazing would that be! Instead of third and first person shooters being severely limited, they could simply use two analogs and use the second screen for something else. Yes dual analogs are largely used just for camera control, but that doesn't mean you drop the control scheme. Lost planet 2 uses both the start and the select buttons. It's a very deep shooter. Heavy rain used the analog for dodge rolls, and if enslaved did the same then it could have had real platforming rather than using a face button for rolling. It is an incomplete handheld without an analog. We should be ADDING to controllers not taking input methods away.
Marty McFly's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/29/2011 16:27
Marty McFly
No, it isn't. How would Mr Ponce suggest one plays an FPS on a console?
Syn's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/29/2011 16:27
Syn
I was kind of hoping reading all that text would bring me to a point that wasn't made with just the title....but I was wrong.

The fixed camera idea won't work well with all games unless we revert back to every game being of the isometric view, save for racing games where the camera sitting behind you will be all you need.

Having a fixed camera makes level design more difficult, as you have to make sure the player can see everything they need to see to solve a puzzle or whatever, which is fine for relatively simple stuff, but short of scrapping the controller altogether and giving everyone the kb/m setup it can be incredibly limiting on the environments you can design.

However with the kb/m setup a fixed camera is completely pointless save for RTS games, which haven't ever had anything apart from an isometric view anyway.

Think of it like this: would you rather view regressed to that of Final Fantasy VII or did you like how it worked in Dragon Quest VIII?

Even in your example of Zelda:OOT, how many times did you turn Link to face a direction then hit Z just to look that way (when no enemies were around)? As opposed to just pushing a stick the direction you want to look as you move, and even then, the only way to look up was to hit a button to put yourself in first-person mode then use a bloody STICK.

Innovation and new ideas are good, and I like what you're trying to do, but it feels like this point wasn't really thought out and this mass of text was more about asking a question that was put very simply and succinctly in the title.
LastFencer's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/29/2011 16:28
LastFencer
And no way are keyboard controls more comfortable than a d-pad/stick.
Snaveage's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/29/2011 16:28
Snaveage
I absolutely agree. With the gaming world constantly bombarded with 'TEH SMARTPHONES ARE WINNING!' articles due to them being easier to pickup and play, it amazes me that console makers still stick to one of the most difficult types of controls for new players to get to grips with.

Developers need to spend some time coming up with a 'next gen' camera system instead of copying and pasting some code from the last decade. With the most 'hardcore' and popular games such as Call of Duty who so desperately want to be like a Hollywood blockbuster, why give me full control of the camera at all times? You know what the best parts of the game are so make me look at them - obviously I don't mean make the game one big movie where I push a button every now and again, give me some control, but make use of a targeting system or limited camera option, don't just map it to the 2nd stick for me to choose to be able to look at a wall whilst there's something important happening.

Great article, I would say however, you mention the mouse being superior but the keyboard/mouse system is basically the exact same problem the dual stick is presenting - lazy camera syndrome. I don't think this is limited to games using a controller with a 2nd stick, but one that is a problem across the gaming world.
Fr33Kye's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/29/2011 16:29
Fr33Kye
Even kingdom hearts didn't use the second analog for camera control, and birth by sleep severely suffered for being on the psp.
SnapDragin's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/29/2011 16:30
SnapDragin
Okay, so are you talking games in general, or just the 3DS? Because respectfully I think you are wrong either way.

One of the main reasons that developers give the user control over the camera is because it's much easier than trying to program a camera system that is perfect. Even in games that don't use the second directional stick and do put a lot of work into the camera, like the Zelda remake on the 3DS, have annoying bugs and glitches. No camera system will ever really be perfect as far as I'm concerned, so the user should at the very least be able to fix the camera after it has screwed up for the 10th time while fighting some ridiculous boss.

As for the rest of the systems, the main problem is F/TPS. I endeavour you to figure out a way to make a shooter that takes away control of the camera. Unless you use motion controls of some sort, it just isn't feasible. And anyone who has played an FPS with motion controls knows that while it's cool for 10 minutes, it's not exactly as accurate as just using a controller. The 3DS might not have an abundance of titles now, but there is the odd shooter on it as well I'm sure. And if there isn't, it does have the technical hardware in it to support said games.

As far as I'm concerned the second directional stick is a brilliant innovation that should stay. Even should developers choose not to use it for anything, it doesn't take up much more space. Keep your thumbs on the traditional four buttons next to it and ignore it. But don't take away the user's ability to move the camera entirely.....I'm sure all of us has played a game where this is the case and has said to themselves "Man, I wish I could move this camera..." at least once.
killias2's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/29/2011 16:31
killias2
Disagree.
Syn's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/29/2011 16:36
Syn
@Fr33kye: However KH still had the player controlling the camera via the L1 and R1 buttons, so not really a valid point. It was a good design decision though because it allowed you to keep moving while navigating a menu with the R stick. Although they probably could have swapped the L/R and R stick functions and the game still would have controlled well.
Androu1's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/29/2011 16:38
Androu1
I love reading stupid bullshit so I will re-read this article.
princevaliant's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/29/2011 16:39
princevaliant
Fantastic article. Really intelligent and thought provoking, with lots of video game history thrown in to support your points.
wkpsrk's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/29/2011 16:47
wkpsrk
"Is the dual-stick controller a game-design crutch?"

No. And certainly not for the reasons you suggested. That camera control is almost always a good thing is incidentally demonstrated quite well by a series that you happen to mention - I hate the fixed camera in God of War.
Dual sticks aren't perfect and different genres require or at least are best played with different input devices. I wouldn't want to have dual-stick shooters or 3D action games without my 2-stick controller, fighters without my arcade stick and most other things without a mouse and keyboard. I'm certainly open to improvements but the variety alone should make it evident that one control scheme does and in fact cannot hold game-design back.
Smackybutts's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/29/2011 16:48
Smackybutts
"Ideally, the camera should not be user-controlled. It was a developer-level issue that had been passed on to the player because the devs couldn't come up with a decent solution of their own."


I disagree strongly with this. Ideally (meaning, ideally) the camera SHOULD be user-controlled in an interactive world. You mention Ocarina's Z-targeting as a better solution, but that's just tethering your character from target-to-target in leapfrog fashion, which to me is a terribly limiting and frustrating way to play. Mark of Kri was similar but only slightly better in that regard, because it allows you to tangle with (limited) multiple enemies at a time without having to "switch over" your focus. Still terrible, though. The C-buttons were also terrible and any game that required me to use them meant I had to take my eyes off the gameplay and onto the onscreen instructions telling me which vague yellow button to hit to "do a barrel roll."

The right analog stick has become overwhelmingly popular to modern gaming for the same reason WADS (FPSes) and more than 2 face buttons (fighting games) have. It works and adapts well with how games are already played. I can configure a 360 controller plugged into my PC to work with pretty much every type of non-Wii game I've ever played.

Just because a right analog stick isn't in constant use doesn't mean it doesn't have its place. And the fact that gamers and devs both clamor for a second stick means that it's pretty much cemented as a standard for controllers.

I'd much rather see an uproar over the Nintendo DS 2-screen design, which I've felt for years and years is retardo-bad compared to having a few extra buttons.
Pentagram's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/29/2011 16:50
Pentagram
@SnapDragin

"And anyone who has played an FPS with motion controls knows that while it's cool for 10 minutes, it's not exactly as accurate as just using a controller."

You are so wrong it's not even funny. Motion controls are so vastly superior for FPS' it's not even funny. It's faster, more accurate, and less clumsy then utilizing a second stick. I don't see how you could say otherwise :P
Monodi's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/29/2011 16:51
Monodi
Keyboard and mouse indeed, but it's an interesting tochallenge to bring in to console controllers.
KtMack23's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/29/2011 16:52
KtMack23
Yes we should just take the 2nd stick and put it on the touch screen! The iPhone has proven how great touch screen analog sticks are, and the 3DS's touch screen is way higher quality than the iPhone's, so that would work perfectly!
/Sarcasm.
jacksbrain's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/29/2011 16:52
jacksbrain
I'm not one to say that dual-sticks are the best possible controller set-up, but I do feel that they're better than anything else available to consoles at the moment. However, I don't particularly approve of the condescending tone this article adopts. So because I'm fine with dual-stick controls and am not particularly anxious for a replacement until someone comes up with something that is objectively more efficient, I'm "a good little Charlie Consumer [who] accepts matters beyond my power"? That's more than a little insulting. Also, I don't think it's a hard fact that "ideally, the camera should not be user-controlled". Making the comparison with a cinematographer in film is ignorant of the filmmaking process and the cinematographer's job within that process. Film is, by its very nature, a medium that doesn't accept audience participation. Games, being interactive, necessarily give players control over things they otherwise wouldn't. Taking your argument to the logical extremes, you might as well suggest that developers take control over player actions, eliminating the need for players in the first place.
Blahblahblahblah's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/29/2011 16:55
Blahblahblahblah
I prefer Keyboard and Mouse, but controllers work, too. There isn't a "best", it's personal preference ffs.
Snowraptor's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/29/2011 16:55
Snowraptor
So did anyone stop and think about what the mouse and keyboard do? The keyboard controls MOVEMENT. The mouse controls the CAMERA. Do you see where I'm going with this? Of course this is strictly from the perspective of shooters and their free camera ilk. Look at any RTS game, the mouse is your general multipurpose do everything but things become very streamlined once you start taking advantage of the keyboard shortcuts, again TWO INPUTS. The mouse/keyboard argument is also useless in a complaint about number of buttons. Count the number of keys on your keyboard, go ahead. I assure you, it is more than your average controller. Unless your whole arguement is for a return of 2D side scrollers (which are still a thing) I really fail to see your logic.
aminoaccident's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/29/2011 16:57
aminoaccident
Going to have to disagree with the omission of the second analog. Why? Peace Walker. I can't use that push some buttons to move the camera nonsense. That game needed a stick, and I'll gladly play it with one when it's re-released. The UMD has long since been sold.
Chris Creo's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/29/2011 16:57
Chris Creo
True I would love to see buttons on the bottom of the controller so i dont have to CLAW but then people would bitch that they couldn't reach them. Also i HATE a camera i cant control it makes me furious especially if its goes from controllable to non and you get stuck in the direction you are going until you stop moving then it reset for the new angle. I honestly dont even remember how i played goldeneye without a second stick i think the C's where for moving sideways and looking up but couldn't turn.

WHY IS MOUSE BETTER? i think this is one of those bs opinions, it may be easier to pick up a pc game over console because long before i had a 2 stick controller i was using a mouse in ms paint and C&C. i would be interesting the they could find anyone who never saw or touched a computer to try the same game with both...not in 2011. I work everyday in various art programs with a mouse with no problems but i cant play a fps with one for shit, than there is the argument of diffrent mice have different scroll speeds or whatever where the guy using the one that comes with ur desktop against someone who buys a $100 mouse with 8 extra buttons and various speed resistances
Gaidenrider's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/29/2011 16:57
Gaidenrider
Dear Tony: You did it once with the "portables are awesome, home consoles must die", you do it now with this article. Focus on the game news.
DinnertimeNinja's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/29/2011 16:59
DinnertimeNinja
The touch screen is infinitely inferior to a second analog stick when it comes to camera control, or even targeting in my opinion.

Playing the DS (or 3DS) with one hand on the d-pad and the other manning the stylus is one of the most uncomfortable control configurations ever imagined. Not to mention that if you want to press any of the regular buttons, no only do you have to leave the touch screen, but you're already HOLDING something in your hand, making it a lot more awkward to press anything. Plus, you don't get the R button(s) when you're using the stylus.

Also, I don't think everyone universally agrees that Move/WiiMote controls are better for FPS games. Personally, I find it to be nothing more than a novelty that gets old pretty quickly. Perhaps aiming is more precise, but you lose turning/camera precision in exchange.

What it comes down to is choice. Where as the original DS was so limited, graphically, that FPSs and 3D controlled games weren't really a viable option (and yes, I think Moon and Dementia sucked), but now we actually HAVE some graphical power and with it comes the need for more options.

Also, you're the only person I've ever heard say anything good about the N64 c-buttons. They didn't know what they wanted to be and they excelled at nothing.
Jamie McGinn's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/29/2011 17:02
Jamie McGinn
Whilst I agree that in this day and age, developers should have 3D cameras down to a fine art (they don't) I can't help but disagree with you.

You were kind of dismissive about FPS', which (for better or worse) are the biggest and most popular genre of game around. Yes a mouse and keyboard is arguable a better control method, but you can't exactly use them when chilling out on your sofa or laying on your bed.

I'm really against the idea of having buttons on a touch screen instead of physical buttons. The lack of tactile feedback can really mess with your game, meaning you don't quite know where your fingers are without looking. Answer me if you can honestly type better with a physical keyboard or on a virtual one on a touch scree. $100 says it's the physical one (I don't actually have $100).

The idea of having fixed/cinematic cameras only works in certain, linear games. You could never have a sandbox game like GTA or Saints row or Skyrim with that camera scheme.

As for your suggestion that motion controls work better with a FPS, I'll admit I'm not the most experienced with this, but what little experience I have has told me that while they may work, they are sub par to having a traditional controller. Perhaps that is just my opinion though.

The inclusion of having a second analogue stick most certainly doesn't STOP developers from using alternate camera schemes. I'd rather have the analogue stick there and not use it than not have it at all and be forced to used some contrived control scheme (looking at you Peace Walker).
Sonintega's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/29/2011 17:04
Sonintega
I disagree, given that nothing is lost by having 2nd analog stick available, and so much is gained by giving the player that kind of control over the perspective. Do you not remember how liberating it first was to be able to look in any direction in a game at will? There really aren't that many games that do only cinematic camera angles and are able to do it successfully without ever stepping on the player's ability to proceed the way they want, but if a game does offer camera control tied to that 2nd analog at least you know that you'll be able to change it to something that will give you better combat and exploration capability. Not everybody loves getting cheap shotted by an enemy lurking just outside of static-camera visibility (DMC, old survival horror, GOW), or getting lost because there's a hallway that just looks like another section of wall but you really can't tell until you stumble into it.

The biggest problem that I have with Wii/Move games, especially shooters (totally with Levine on this one) is that there's no reliable way to change perspective to what it needs to be. Shooters on the Wii/Move suffer from this lack of effective camera control, and the only method that's proven even a little effective has been to turn the outside edges of the screen into turning only dead zones, basically putting the second analog on the screen itself. It's not enjoyable to play with that kind of jerky, you can only turn or shoot limited input, but it's either that or regress to the locked perspective of the old light gun days and completely remove license from the the player for movement as well.

Yes, maybe all these problems could be solved by developers spending considerable time and QA fixing and tweaking camera areas to ensure no one ever gets confused, lost, or annoyed by cheap deaths from unseen hazards, or they could give people what they want and allow them to have more license over their experience. Could you even imagine trying to play Saints Row, or any other sandbox game without camera control? How do you script for that, and why would you want to do so? The benefits far outweigh the negatives.
tehwexxl0rz's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/29/2011 17:07
tehwexxl0rz
This whole article seems very poorly thought out. How do you propose players control ANY first-person or shooter game on a handheld system or console without a wand peripheral? Have you tried playing MGS3 on 3DS without the second slide pad? It's horrible.

A second analog stick is a SOLUTION, not a problem. It's totally dissimilar from the Select button in that it adds functionally that can't be mapped to any other input mechanism on the controller. Obviously the mechanical function is the same as the first analog stick, but they function independently. Would Super Mario Bros. be better without the B button because it's mechanically the same as the A button? Of course not.

Whether or not you're a fan of the second stick as a means of implementing two modes of precision 360° movement (which you clearly aren't) it undeniably fulfills that purpose. If you are going to argue that "a second stick is not needed in any way, shape, or form" then you must propose an alternate solution or you're just wasting everybody's time.
NubPhiSh's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/29/2011 17:07
NubPhiSh
sry but i just don't agree i love controling the camera i hate god of war style cams, and motion controls ugh playing cod on the wii is crap
DaedHead8's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/29/2011 17:09
DaedHead8
I find it incredibly ironic that you say this: "I admit that dual-stick shooting controls have been refined over the last decade, but let's not pretend that they are the end-all and be-all, especially in the face of the superior mouse." and then in the very next paragraph, go on to say this: "The Wii Remote and PlayStation Move trump the standard pad in every area when it comes to shooters. The complaints that players have against these alternatives, and the reasons devs haven't capitalized on them, are fear of needing to acclimate themselves with a new setup and ignorance of motion controls."

The great keyboard and mouse vs twin stick vs motion control debate is laughable. Most of the people who champion K/M are guilty of the same thing you're accusing devs and gamers of in the last sentence I quoted you on. It's all preference and opinion! Even if K/M was 100% more accurate than one of the other two control types (it is more accurate but not by any significant amount) it would still come down to preference.

That being said, I enjoy having two analog sticks and can point to a number of experiences that would suffer without them. You mentioned Katamari and FPSs but what about twin stick shooters? Also I love having complete control over the camera in third person games and games like God of War and Resident Evil that have fixed cameras often irk me.

You raise some interesting points here, but in the end, I am glad that the second analog stick is a mainstay in video games. I don't think I'd enjoy this hobby nearly as much without it.
Lord Kolekovishin's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/29/2011 17:16
Lord Kolekovishin
I feel like just because a game doesn't use the Right stick for camera control doesn't mean the game is instantly broken because of it.
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