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Doesn't Valve already have it in for LAN cafes after that debacle with Sierra selling their stuff that way?
Wait, so who do the CD key vendors buy the keys from? Because it still sounds like Activision is making the same amount of money it would be otherwise. Unless the vendors themselves are pirating the keys.
Either way the players themselves aren't at fault and shouldn't be punished for using what seems to be a better alternative. Taking candy away from a baby and then re-selling the candy back to the baby at a higher price is not a way to endear yourself to customers, Valve.
Either way the players themselves aren't at fault and shouldn't be punished for using what seems to be a better alternative. Taking candy away from a baby and then re-selling the candy back to the baby at a higher price is not a way to endear yourself to customers, Valve.
This would be a good news article if it dealt with anything resembling facts.
This IS piracy, these people are distributing a game they did not buy from the publisher. It's a case of the middleman cutting out the production company, which is pretty damn illegal.
This IS piracy, these people are distributing a game they did not buy from the publisher. It's a case of the middleman cutting out the production company, which is pretty damn illegal.
AfroWalrus: I think this is a region issue. The key resellers are legit but not designed for the NA market.. it's arbitrary region locking. ie.. Activision may consider those keys valid in Russia but not Canada for example.
I heard the amount of bannings was a noticeable amount. Like knock the down the player count four places big.
wow this is fucking pathetic, you would think they are having enough fun rolling around in all that money
i cant believe activision are allowed to pull shit like this
i cant believe activision are allowed to pull shit like this
@Suprore
It is not piracy. The CD keys would not work if they weren't legitimate. The vendors are buying the keys (at lower bulk rates) from (formerly) authorized distribution channels set up by publishers in deals with local distributors hoping to sell games globally.
A retail-based example would be the Asian PC release of the original Operation Flashpoint. It sold for roughly $15 US (versus a higher price in North America and the UK), but came without a box or manual. The distributor was a local company licensed by Codemasters.
It is not piracy. The CD keys would not work if they weren't legitimate. The vendors are buying the keys (at lower bulk rates) from (formerly) authorized distribution channels set up by publishers in deals with local distributors hoping to sell games globally.
A retail-based example would be the Asian PC release of the original Operation Flashpoint. It sold for roughly $15 US (versus a higher price in North America and the UK), but came without a box or manual. The distributor was a local company licensed by Codemasters.
Valve did nothing wrong guys. As a Valve customer, you have no right to play the game you bought. From the EULA:
"Valve has the right to terminate or cancel your Account or a particular Subscription at any time."
"Valve has the right to terminate or cancel your Account or a particular Subscription at any time."
Wow. You guys are misinformed: "Valve representatives responded, saying that the players in question bought their keys from an "illegitimate seller" and would not be getting their games unlocked." While I can't stand Valve, this is the law. You can not buy stolen goods. It is illegal. DUrrrrr
The problem here is that I believe some areas like Russia sell at a much lower price due to factors in those areas, and thus key sellers can basically funnel those cheaper prices into other countries, destroying the price structure.
It isn't piracy, but it IS against the terms of service, and I don't blame Valve here. It is pretty common knowledge that Valve despises these sorts of tactics and responds accordingly.
It isn't piracy, but it IS against the terms of service, and I don't blame Valve here. It is pretty common knowledge that Valve despises these sorts of tactics and responds accordingly.
What makes it even worse are the idiots on the Valve forums spouting off crap about them having no right to complain.
I'd also like to mention that until Valve lifts these bans, they're joining Activision in my own personal embargo zone. By doing this, they've also called the trustworthiness Steam into question.
I'd also like to mention that until Valve lifts these bans, they're joining Activision in my own personal embargo zone. By doing this, they've also called the trustworthiness Steam into question.
Oh, big surprise. If you're getting a game on a DRM platform published by The Evil Publisher himself, then what else would you expect? A decent multiplayer experience and fulfilling single-player campaign? Think again.
No surprise that Activision are douche bags of the highest doucheosity.
But Valve? Wow.
I guess it is all milk and cookies with the hardcores until someone tries to undercut the almighty STEAM.
But Valve? Wow.
I guess it is all milk and cookies with the hardcores until someone tries to undercut the almighty STEAM.
If this were a grad school accounting/finance hypothetical, and your task was to understand all the liability issues involved, I would address it by first asking what seems to be a major bit of information lacking from these reports.
#1. Who sold the keys originally?
Because we have a situation here where the first thing that happened was - a batch of keys were sold.
A batch of wholesale keys.
Who sells wholesale keys in a batch?
Activision and/or Steam?
You have a wholesale seller unnamed in this fact pattern.
Is the original sale TO the 'digital CD key vendor' legal?
Does the 'digital CD key vendor' get their money refunded?
Did Activision sell the keys, and then refuse to honor them?
I understand the reason the reporting at a game site might be centered around the issue of the gamer getting their money back for the key bought in good faith.
To digress - I think it is way to easy for CD key vendors, steam included, hardware mfgs., and publishers to give gamers the run around - and preemptively ban revoke keys, before actually proving anything in a court of law.
The company that SOLD the keys to this "illegitimate" online 'digital CD key vendor' might ultimately be liable for committing the fraud of selling wholesale batches of keys to an "illegitimate" online 'digital CD key vendor'.
What a shit storm.
Speaks clearly that digital key sales themselves as a concept are themselves the problem.
They inevitably lead to gamers getting defrauded, and game companies getting paid for not providing games.
Which is probably the reason I went to the ps3.
Disc in hand, stick it in, automatic registration through PSN for MP if you want.
And no BS about having to register a single player game and have an internet connection BEFORE I get to play a single player game (steam).
I simply caution that if you allow a company to preemptively ban keys and game-play for a "good reason" you also allow them to preemptively ban anyone for ANY reason.
They could simply be banning people to lower server loads.
Banning keys is in short, extremely profitable. And because we as gamers think it is reasonable for bans to occur before they prove their case in court, it requires individual gamers wait for class action suits to happen, or to spend thousands of dollars in legal fees just to prove they were robbed of $50 dollars for a game.
So game Co.s can pull this stuff with very little chance of it ever seeing the inside of a court room.
Ps. Blah blah blah
Blah blah blah - no one reads more than 1 paragraph responses.
#1. Who sold the keys originally?
Because we have a situation here where the first thing that happened was - a batch of keys were sold.
A batch of wholesale keys.
Who sells wholesale keys in a batch?
Activision and/or Steam?
You have a wholesale seller unnamed in this fact pattern.
Is the original sale TO the 'digital CD key vendor' legal?
Does the 'digital CD key vendor' get their money refunded?
Did Activision sell the keys, and then refuse to honor them?
I understand the reason the reporting at a game site might be centered around the issue of the gamer getting their money back for the key bought in good faith.
To digress - I think it is way to easy for CD key vendors, steam included, hardware mfgs., and publishers to give gamers the run around - and preemptively ban revoke keys, before actually proving anything in a court of law.
The company that SOLD the keys to this "illegitimate" online 'digital CD key vendor' might ultimately be liable for committing the fraud of selling wholesale batches of keys to an "illegitimate" online 'digital CD key vendor'.
What a shit storm.
Speaks clearly that digital key sales themselves as a concept are themselves the problem.
They inevitably lead to gamers getting defrauded, and game companies getting paid for not providing games.
Which is probably the reason I went to the ps3.
Disc in hand, stick it in, automatic registration through PSN for MP if you want.
And no BS about having to register a single player game and have an internet connection BEFORE I get to play a single player game (steam).
I simply caution that if you allow a company to preemptively ban keys and game-play for a "good reason" you also allow them to preemptively ban anyone for ANY reason.
They could simply be banning people to lower server loads.
Banning keys is in short, extremely profitable. And because we as gamers think it is reasonable for bans to occur before they prove their case in court, it requires individual gamers wait for class action suits to happen, or to spend thousands of dollars in legal fees just to prove they were robbed of $50 dollars for a game.
So game Co.s can pull this stuff with very little chance of it ever seeing the inside of a court room.
Ps. Blah blah blah
Blah blah blah - no one reads more than 1 paragraph responses.
I had all the respect in the world for Valve and IW before this game came out. Now they can all go fuck off together. I'm glad I didn't buy this shit and never will I purchase a game from any of them again.
@readbigwordsisgood: I read it! Great post! Same for Cory Doc- er, CordableTuna. Both those posts illuminate a major issue with digital distribution, especially when it also serves as DRM. I have Steam and a few games on it, but I'm not much of a PC gamer so aside from the Orange Box, which was what got me to bother to begin with, it's limited to cheap games like Peggle that I can write off as basically the price of a rental, since in essence that's what it is.
Digital distro has several tangible benefits, but it also has its own drawbacks, and shit like this serves to remind people exactly what those are. Then you just have to decide if it's still worth your money. Physical media have their own different drawbacks and benefits, but thanks to the first sale doctrine and hundreds if not thousands of years of history in the physical world we're all very much more used to it as a concept.
Digital distro has several tangible benefits, but it also has its own drawbacks, and shit like this serves to remind people exactly what those are. Then you just have to decide if it's still worth your money. Physical media have their own different drawbacks and benefits, but thanks to the first sale doctrine and hundreds if not thousands of years of history in the physical world we're all very much more used to it as a concept.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
Does IW and Activison's duchebaggery have no bounds? You can bitch about Halo and Bungie all you want, but at least they don't pull shit like this.
Does IW and Activison's duchebaggery have no bounds? You can bitch about Halo and Bungie all you want, but at least they don't pull shit like this.
If this were a grad school accounting/finance hypothetical, and your task was to understand all the liability issues involved, I would address it by first asking what seems to be a major bit of information lacking from these reports.
#1. Who sold the keys originally?
Because we have a situation here where the first thing that happened was - a batch of keys were sold.
A batch of wholesale keys.
Who sells wholesale keys in a batch?
Activision and/or Steam?
You have a wholesale seller unnamed in this fact pattern.
Is the original sale TO the 'digital CD key vendor' legal?
Does the 'digital CD key vendor' get their money refunded?
Did Activision sell the keys, and then refuse to honor them?
I understand the reason the reporting at a game site might be centered around the issue of the gamer getting their money back for the key bought in good faith.
To digress - I think it is way to easy for CD key vendors, steam included, hardware mfgs., and publishers to give gamers the run around - and preemptively ban revoke keys, before actually proving anything in a court of law.
The company that SOLD the keys to this "illegitimate" online 'digital CD key vendor' might ultimately be liable for committing the fraud of selling wholesale batches of keys to an "illegitimate" online 'digital CD key vendor'.
What a shit storm.
Speaks clearly that digital key sales themselves as a concept are themselves the problem.
They inevitably lead to gamers getting defrauded, and game companies getting paid for not providing games.
Which is probably the reason I went to the ps3.
Disc in hand, stick it in, automatic registration through PSN for MP if you want.
And no BS about having to register a single player game and have an internet connection BEFORE I get to play a single player game (steam).
I simply caution that if you allow a company to preemptively ban keys and game-play for a "good reason" you also allow them to preemptively ban anyone for ANY reason.
They could simply be banning people to lower server loads.
Banning keys is in short, extremely profitable. And because we as gamers think it is reasonable for bans to occur before they prove their case in court, it requires individual gamers wait for class action suits to happen, or to spend thousands of dollars in legal fees just to prove they were robbed of $50 dollars for a game.
So game Co.s can pull this stuff with very little chance of it ever seeing the inside of a court room.
Ps. Blah blah blah
Blah blah blah - no one reads more than 1 paragraph responses.
#1. Who sold the keys originally?
Because we have a situation here where the first thing that happened was - a batch of keys were sold.
A batch of wholesale keys.
Who sells wholesale keys in a batch?
Activision and/or Steam?
You have a wholesale seller unnamed in this fact pattern.
Is the original sale TO the 'digital CD key vendor' legal?
Does the 'digital CD key vendor' get their money refunded?
Did Activision sell the keys, and then refuse to honor them?
I understand the reason the reporting at a game site might be centered around the issue of the gamer getting their money back for the key bought in good faith.
To digress - I think it is way to easy for CD key vendors, steam included, hardware mfgs., and publishers to give gamers the run around - and preemptively ban revoke keys, before actually proving anything in a court of law.
The company that SOLD the keys to this "illegitimate" online 'digital CD key vendor' might ultimately be liable for committing the fraud of selling wholesale batches of keys to an "illegitimate" online 'digital CD key vendor'.
What a shit storm.
Speaks clearly that digital key sales themselves as a concept are themselves the problem.
They inevitably lead to gamers getting defrauded, and game companies getting paid for not providing games.
Which is probably the reason I went to the ps3.
Disc in hand, stick it in, automatic registration through PSN for MP if you want.
And no BS about having to register a single player game and have an internet connection BEFORE I get to play a single player game (steam).
I simply caution that if you allow a company to preemptively ban keys and game-play for a "good reason" you also allow them to preemptively ban anyone for ANY reason.
They could simply be banning people to lower server loads.
Banning keys is in short, extremely profitable. And because we as gamers think it is reasonable for bans to occur before they prove their case in court, it requires individual gamers wait for class action suits to happen, or to spend thousands of dollars in legal fees just to prove they were robbed of $50 dollars for a game.
So game Co.s can pull this stuff with very little chance of it ever seeing the inside of a court room.
Ps. Blah blah blah
Blah blah blah - no one reads more than 1 paragraph responses.
@Cainraw:
Please, Xboxs and PS3s are already so far behind the tech curve that I fear it might physically hurt me to look at such low res textures and games.
Please, Xboxs and PS3s are already so far behind the tech curve that I fear it might physically hurt me to look at such low res textures and games.
I really love the people who are coming in here and saying "OMG NO WAI! I'm never buying from Valve or IW ever again, EVER!!!!!1!!" Come on, seriously? Shouldn't we got more info on this before we start jumping the gun and boycotting them? At least we should hear where the CD keys originally came from. Or why Valve and IW see these keys as illegitimate.
@Muetank - that's not the most important thing here. What is really serious is the fact that the only ones who suffered were the end users who did nothing wrong.
lol. needs a link to Pitchford's statements about Valve/Steam. (okay, it's not directly what he was saying, but still).
Suprore, that's the dumbest thing I've ever read on these pages. And that's saying a lot.
Suprore, that's the dumbest thing I've ever read on these pages. And that's saying a lot.
I've been following the many threads on the steam forums regarding this issue. A Valve mod greenie posted if you didn't buy it from Steamstore, or an authorized retailer then you're screwed. The poster above saying these were stolen is incorrect. They were purchased by a company/website from asian markets legally. They in turn resell them to people outside the asian markets, like US/UK buyers. They are legit keys that activate, but when Valve/Activision see the IP of people playing are from US using keys that were marked to be sold in Asian regions they banned them. No stealing was done. Only thing is selling outside of your market, but what's wrong with that? I cannot go on vacation somewhere, buy a game at their price and come to play it?
I don't blame Valve as much as Activision since I have bought online key for Dawn of War II and it's still fine. Also many users of L4D and TF2 have bought keys that are still working. I believe Activision made sure to have any non-region key banned, which is very selfish and unfortunate. I bought my game at a retail store, but I'd much rather play with other key buyers than pirates that can get into the servers....sigh
I don't blame Valve as much as Activision since I have bought online key for Dawn of War II and it's still fine. Also many users of L4D and TF2 have bought keys that are still working. I believe Activision made sure to have any non-region key banned, which is very selfish and unfortunate. I bought my game at a retail store, but I'd much rather play with other key buyers than pirates that can get into the servers....sigh
@AfroWalrus
It depends based on the vendor, but for the most part they either buy it from a country where the game is cheaper (usually due to currency exchange rates) or they buy it wholesale legitimately, type the codes into a notepad document and doles them out as digital copies are sold.
And before anyone asks, yes games can be MUCH cheaper if you buy them in different countries. I think Australia pays almost double for DS games compared to U.S. prices even though the DS is completely region free.
It depends based on the vendor, but for the most part they either buy it from a country where the game is cheaper (usually due to currency exchange rates) or they buy it wholesale legitimately, type the codes into a notepad document and doles them out as digital copies are sold.
And before anyone asks, yes games can be MUCH cheaper if you buy them in different countries. I think Australia pays almost double for DS games compared to U.S. prices even though the DS is completely region free.
"The logic behind the move is solid and is a natural sign of the way the business is adapting but that doesn't really help the people who can't play Modern Warfare 2 anymore. Until they can cough up $60 dollars, anyway."
You are not a consumer advocate, are you?
And no, the logic is not sound, because the logical response to having purchased a game and being told it doesn't work due to the vendor (which I'm not totally sure is legal under the first sale doctrine) is to pirate a copy that will actually work. If the pirates give better customer service than Activision and Steam, then obviously many consumers will go for the superior version of the game. I'm betting that DRM creates more pirates than it stops, because it makes the best version of any game the piratd version.
You are not a consumer advocate, are you?
And no, the logic is not sound, because the logical response to having purchased a game and being told it doesn't work due to the vendor (which I'm not totally sure is legal under the first sale doctrine) is to pirate a copy that will actually work. If the pirates give better customer service than Activision and Steam, then obviously many consumers will go for the superior version of the game. I'm betting that DRM creates more pirates than it stops, because it makes the best version of any game the piratd version.
@Hcapt
By "logic" I meant the reasoning behind Activision attempting to close a distribution channel that could undermine their pricing schemes.
Of course, that pretty much screwed everyone using the channel that was closed, which sucks. It's a shameful and selfish maneuver, but the logic behind it is sound. On paper, at any rate. Activision hasn't proven to keep customer satisfaction at a high enough priority that they'd factor in people who go "f*ck this* and open up a torrent tracker.
By "logic" I meant the reasoning behind Activision attempting to close a distribution channel that could undermine their pricing schemes.
Of course, that pretty much screwed everyone using the channel that was closed, which sucks. It's a shameful and selfish maneuver, but the logic behind it is sound. On paper, at any rate. Activision hasn't proven to keep customer satisfaction at a high enough priority that they'd factor in people who go "f*ck this* and open up a torrent tracker.
What makes me lol so hard is that this kind of bullshit will be coming to console gaming in the next few "generations" of consoles. Activations required, legitimate games not working, etc.
Just you wait, all the console whores keep going on about how this crap kills PC gaming, and why console gaming is so much better, only for this kind of bullshit to come to your precious consoles in the not too distant future.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came...
Just you wait, all the console whores keep going on about how this crap kills PC gaming, and why console gaming is so much better, only for this kind of bullshit to come to your precious consoles in the not too distant future.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came...
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