Discussion about Infinity Ward's upcoming kill-brown-people simulator Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 has been, well ... less than positive recently. Old World and PC gamers are feeling slighted by a series of price hikes—a £5 bump for British console gamers and an extra $10 for the PC version—and the recent news that Infinity Ward will be ditching dedicated servers in favor of peer-to-peer matchmaking has met with vocal resistance and a thriving online petition.
Yesterday, Infinity Ward's Creative Specialist and former community manager Robert "fourzerotwo" Bowling made it clear that the petition "will not be ignored." Today, he posted the first details on IWNET—the peer-to-peer matchmaking system that will replace dedicated servers—on his personal blog, calling Modern Warfare 2 "the biggest investment Infinity Ward has ever made into the PC version of our games" and "the most feature-rich PC version we’ve ever made."
Describing the matchmaking process, Bowling explains that IWNET will automatically find the server with the lowest ping that matches your gameplay specifications and connect you with other players with the same skill level as your own, putting "you in the game that will give you the smoothest gameplay possible without you having to manually find a server with the best ping." He promises that "it doesn’t mean you’ll just be thrown into a random game!"
For those of you who want to play with a clan, Bowling says that friendlists and private matches, coupled with the new Party system, will let you hang on to the community vibe provided by dedicated servers:
A Party allows you to move from game to game as a group. It’s great for clan matches, because you can party [up] with your clan and move from public game to public game together. Or if you’re doing a scrim, party up and invite the other clan (who is in a party) and they’ll all join at once. Set up a private match together and play. It makes setting up scrims or games with friends easier and hassle free.
Well, there you go. Bowling certainly seems to have addressed the most common complaints I've been seeing, but, judging by the f*ckstorm of comments on the post (2000 and counting), I'm sure not all of you are mollified. The only glaring omission I see is that a lack of custom maps will certainly be a kick in the junk for some of you.
So, finally, we have some solid details on IWNET and how it's going to work. If you're a PC gamer, are you ok with this, or are you still going to be boycotting what will surely be the most popular game of the year? Sound off in the comments.
[Via The Escapist]
Contest:
7:00 AM on 10.21.2009
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Kinda really sad, since I stopped playing on consoles because of matchmaking, which I think is too random on everything, like ping, locations, skills etc.
I have both version of CoD 4, the PC and 360, and I've play a lot more on PC because of re-playability I get from dedicated servers, mods, custom maps and settings.
Nonetheless, I know I'll buy this game much because I'm a fan of the serie since the first one.
It's just sad.
Are the games going to be player hosted, like the console versions, or will Infinity Ward be running a bunch of servers that everyone will connect to once you're matched?
When a match is over, will you be able to continue on to the next map without having to re-matchmake? I hate finally finding a good matchup, only to be kicked out to the menus with my party to have to search again.
Really, all that blog post did was say "Hey, if you've never used matchmaking on a console, here's how it works."
I'll still probably end up buying it too. I just can't resist. Everything about the game looks so amazing, dedicated servers or not. Here's to hoping that, if they don't put dedicated servers back in, the matchmaking system will work just fine.
Matchmaking is all fine and dandy I guess if you live in an area with lots of fellow gamers with good internet but somehow don't have any internet friends and aren't part of a stable game community, but there's absolutely 0 justification for allowing dedicated servers and a browser in addition to that.
We don't want it.
We don't need it.
What if I don't want to be sorted by ping? What if I place a higher desire on player count over ping but don't wish it to go hog wild on that? How does this magic "play now!" button deduce this? Must I fidget with it's ini file and thus defeat its purpose?
What if I want a 24 man game? What if I prefer to be playing with over-leveled/more skilled people rather than people of my own level for any number of reasons? What if I find a game I like and want to return to the same group & game but without joining a clan?
This doesn't even begin to touch on custom maps and mods.
This is utterly stupid and by extension makes believe Infinity Ward is totally and unquestionably incompetent when it comes to PC games. Halo 2 Vista, arguably the WORST PC port ever, even it has a game browser and dedicated server support.
And even then IW has the gaul to up-charge PC users an 10 dollars? Absurd.
Absurd and insulting.
On top of the host advantage anyone who isn't from America WILL be screwed by matchmaking. There has NEVER been a game that has done matchmaking perfectly for anyone outside of America. Hell, I'm from America and I get into laggy matches in cod4, halo 3, and obviously gow2 every single time I play. Dedicated servers don't have this problem.
No matter how well a p2p gameplay system is implemented, there is no way you can get over 24 people in a match without MASSIVE lag and a huge advantage to the host. Dedicated servers meant 64 player matches with no lag.
I'm not worried about mw2 I'm worried about pc gaming as a whole moving backwards to the terrible model that IW is using.
@Robert -- I mean "there you have it." Or, alternatively, "there it is." As in, these are the first details on IWNET we have; it's all right there.
It's not as simple as if you don't like it, you don't have to buy it. The announcement of all these changes came so close to release when so many people had the game on preorder. Everyone was caught of guard because only a couple months ago 402 stated that the pc game would not be any different that it has been in the past. They mislead the community and if it weren't for the outrage then a lot of people would have kept their preorders expecting something that the game was not. And it's not like you can take a PC game back to the store like you can a console game. The outrage is completely valid.
Yeah. Ok.
It sucks for the 10,000 or so PC gamers who plan to legitimately buy the game, but what do you realistically expect IW to do?
after every damn match everyone leaves and rejoins or searches for another game instead of partying up and continuing another match with the same people. so every game im playing someone different.
Pc gamers host the servers not the developer. Go back to your console.
Example 1: The price raise.
- I understand that a company has to make money and all, but when you raise the price to that of a standard console game's price, you are limiting how much (& what) a PC gamer can buy, as well as a console user. Higher prices generally means that fewer people can buy the product (Whether it's a game or otherwise).
Example 2: No dedicated servers.
- This is perhaps the single core reason why Activision doesn't give a damn, and why most PC users won't buy the game. Dedicated servers are what gives modders fame, and the chance to work at a big company. Counter-Strike, Team Fortress, Portal, and Left 4 Dead became big because of the mod teams having access to dedicated servers.
- With what I have been hearing, MW2's multiplayer will now function more like consoles. This is a big mistake, and it will most likely alienate PC users, who, like myself, have had little to no experience with console workings. The fact that you (may) have to pay for map add-ons shows the greed behind the decision. Yes, I know that all of this is to prevent piracy, but I don't believe it for a second.
Example 3: Activison is now the evil empire of gaming.
- http://www.playstationuniversity.com/electronic-arts-no-longer-the-evil-empire-of-gaming-so-who-is-809/
- I know that the link is from a Playstation site, but it complements my point well.
So, what do you Destructoids think of all of this?
I'm sorry about attacking you. It's just that I'm getting fed up with people being so apathetic about dedicated servers. This isn't the time to be bringing pc games back to console levels. It's time to be pushing console gaming forward with games like section 8 which allow players to enjoy a more flawless experience that previously only pc games offered.
It's the player base that pays for the dedicated servers who either run the hardware themselves or lease server time from a 3rd party server host so your argument there is invalid.
Cracked games aren't playable in multiplayer regardless so your argument there is also invalid.
It's stuff like this that hurts the ENTIRE gaming community, not just PC gamers and not just PC MW2 players.
@Your Moms Hot Lover: Developers don't host the dedicated servers or pay for them. The players do.
so i got something wrong, your attitude to it is exactly the PC elitist mentality IW is trying to overcome.
I don't need to go back to my console, I never left and never will.
No, IW is not trying to overcome my so called "elitist" mentality. They are taking advantage of your ignorance. Btw I own a ps3 and an xbox 360 in addition to my old gaming pc which I haven't upgraded in years. I know console gaming. I'm not arguing because I'm some pc fanboy. I'm arguing because I'm a gaming fanboy and I want the best possible experience for all platforms.
You didn't exactly open your original statement with a level head and non-elitism either.
"...or PC gamers, most of whom steal the game..."
People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones and all that.
You don't know what you're missing because you've never had it.
Remember battlefield 2 on XBOX? There's a reason why it got drastically lower ratings than the PC version, which was one of the all time best PC multiplayer games. 24 players max on the XBOX version, 32 players for each SIDE on the PC version for up to 64 players in a match. On a good dedicated server you would not experience any lag in a game that size on PC as long as your own system was decent. It's the same story today with PC games and console games.
"We're just prioritizing the player experience above the modders and the tuners," says West. He points toward the mounting feedback IW has received from PC fans of Modern Warfare who couldn't find a decent server to play on between all of the cheaters, the insular communities, and huge skill level disparities that the original game's community fractured into. "We thought maybe it would be cool if the fans could play the game," he laughs.
That's from http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2009/10/20/modern-warfare-2-dedicated-server-response.aspx?PageIndex=3
More people playing the game is better for them obviously, is it really worse for the PC community too? I mean, we read stuff about the PC slowly dying as a platform all the time. Perhaps it's a trade off that needs to be made going forward.
@yehat. Well I don't steal games, ever, so no glass houses there. I don't know the exact numbers on piracy, but it sure does seem like more people steal than buy on PC
Sorry, IW, you were cool at one point.
Skill is not a problem, the only way to get better is to play with better players. Also a simple tagging system for mods would help many players. Say one for restricted weapons, one for restricted perks, and of course a vanilla tag for unmodded servers. TF2 does this and it works out fine.
Forcing everyone to use matchmaking, even those long term gamers who enjoy the benefits of dedicated servers? Not so cool.
The real question is "why not both?" The answer is not "they don't want to split the community." They've done more than that already. Instead of having a potential divide in the PC playerbase they've lost a huge portion of it.
Wouldn't surprise me that in a few years they'll both end up reaching a middle ground making it difficult to tell them apart anymore.
I was comparing the elitism thing. Piracy is extremely high in the PC that is a known fact.
But as Irrational Bee pointed out most console gamers do not understand PC gaming, this is also a known fact.
Are you debating otherwise?
Also to reply to your other statement that "is it really worse for the PC community too?" to which there is a unanimous reply from PC gamers: yes. If the friction and outcry from PC gamers is so large and negative I'm having trouble understanding how we're moving to the conclusion that this is good for the *majority* of PC gamers who have expressed their doubt and/or intense dislike of this method.
Additionally the match-making with no game browser is only one 'prong' of this insult. The second is match-making with NO dedicated servers. The third is the 10 dollar price hike.
The PC gaming isn't dying, it's oversized publishers that are purposefully killing it. Sure consoles now are way further along than they ever were but the quality and potential isn't there and that is by design. You are locked into what the publisher and console maker throws you. PC games allow the player so many more options down the road. If people love the game they have the opportunity to keep it alive for years and YEARS down the road. In a console game, once the publisher says they are done supporting it, they drop it and you're not able to enjoy it anymore. People still play classic counterstrike on PC but try playing Halo 2 now on XBOX.
To add to Snideworth's comment
The answer to "why not both" they give is "they don't want to split the community" when what they really means is that they don't want to give up control. When they control what the user has access to they can force a subscription based PC multilplayer system and force them paid-for map packs (oh it might be optional to upgrade, but you won't be able to play without it). So what do we get for the $10 price hike the possibility of a subscription based system, and the very likely paid for content downloads? We a dumbed down to console level of a game with no customization, no ability to host our own servers, and we are at the mercy of the publisher to continue supporting the game.
I had started to think about getting back into PC FPS now I have a computer than can run them decently, and MW2 would have been top of my list, but without dedicated servers I'll be sticking to the console version (once I find it in the pre-owned bin since there's no way I'm paying our hefty UK price for it new)
Now on to this PC vs console malarkey. (That's right I said malarkey, that's means I'm serious)
There's a whole bunch of console gamers who think they have the right to say that all PC gamers are pirates, and thieves. News flash people it's called a modded console. The fact is calling PC gamers thieves doesn't mean that the removal of dedicated servers isn't wrong. So why even bother start shit? As we all know FPS games have always been better on PC, it's not disputable. Hell as a console gamer I'll play Mass Effect and L4D on my PC. Console gamers have had much more to complain about over the recent years so instead of calling PC gamers "whiners" let's support them because we're all gamers.
For the record I have canceled my preorder of the game on PC (and no I am not getting it on any other platform) which I had preordered for the full amount. I won't be getting it at all unless the compromise and allow dedicated servers. And even then, I'll still voice my opinion against this trend they are trying to set because it is not the right direction for the gaming community as a whole.
Shut the hell up already. Games have cost $60 for years now, you've just been lucky up until this point. It was going to change eventually as the cost of development went up and the economy weakened. Paying for map packs? Yeah, that's part of gaming too nowadays. Maybe you should still be playing Counter-Strike all day in an internet cafe back in 2000. You may not be able to mod your own stupid, poorly made levels, but you won't have to deal with the rampant cheating that plagues PC gaming. It's COD, it's meant to played a certain way, it's the best way to play it so play it and SHUT YOUR GODDAMN MOUTH.
My point about the PC world dying - whether it is dying or being killed - clearly IW doesn't want and isn't going to support gamers hosting games on their own servers. Now, evil or not, they make solid business decisions based on what makes them the most money. Obviously no one outside IW and Activision knows for sure what those reasons are but they must have them.
They must think that by doing this they will get more people playing and buying their game. Surely more people playing overall is better for the PC as a platform? If it is that or games like MW2 stop coming to the PC which would you choose? Would you guys buy a console or simply boycott what is undoubtedly the years biggest game?
are you kidding me? the only game that really demands that a PC be a monster to run is Crysis. I bought my PC last year and it was able to run Mass Effect no problem. And for The Witcher, all I had to do was buy a $60 video card. You really do not have a clue what your talking about if you call playing and FPS on console the best way to play it.
"the news that Modern Warfare 2 will not include code for dedicated multiplayer servers, instead relying on a yet to be revealed, peer-to-peer matchmaking service called IW.net, hasn't gone down well. At the last glance, 90,000 gamers had signed a petition asking for dedicated server support to be reinstated. Those gamers are right. I've signed the same petition, and I think you should, too. Here's why.
A dedicated server is a PC usually held within a bank of computers belonging to a private company or the game's own publisher. Dedicated server hosts have been part of PC gaming for decades; I think you can attribute some of the rise of multiplayer games like Counter-Strike and Call of Duty directly to their work.
Why?
1) Dedicated server hosts are judged by their reliability. If a server crashes, or an internet connection goes down, the gamers paying to host the game will complain, and they'll start to move elsewhere. This economic motivation forces server hosts to constantly improve their hardware, their internet connection, and their management tools. Compare that to the peer-to-peer networking that Infinity Ward developers are proposing, where the quality of the game will be entirely dependant on the gamer's own home web connection.
2) Dedicated servers are fair. Want to know why that player always seems to get the drop on you when you're playing Call of Duty on Xbox 360? It might be because he's the host of the game. In combat, data has to be bounced from his console, to yours, and back again, for you to impact on the game. Meanwhile, he doesn't have to wait on the round trip - he can fire as soon as he's ready. Hosts always have an advantage in peer-to-peer networked games.
3) Dedicated servers are adaptable. We don't know the details of what InfinityWard.net will offer, but there's little chance that the tickbox customisation options usually available to players in peer-to-peer matchmaking setups can match the level of control dedicated servers offer. That can include, but not be limited to: competitive players who run their own specific rulesets, to the spectator mode mods, to machinima friendly sets, to the expanded player counts, to the custom maps. That evolution of content is key to extending a PC game's lifespan, and improving that game. Enabling the community to host the mods and maps they choose is a good thing. Entire game development businesses have been built from gamers hosting dedicated servers for popular, low key games. Guys like Splash Damage (Enemy Territory, Brink), Tripwire Interactive (Red Orchestra, Killing Floor) simply wouldn't be around were it not for gamers putting up their own cash to pay for dedicated servers.
4) Dedicated servers create community. Don't think of them as a piece of hardware. Think of them as a place. PC Gamer hosts servers for Team Fortress 2, Killing Floor, and yes, Modern Warfare. We have plenty of regulars who are looking forward to playing Modern Warfare 2 together. If we had dedicated server code, we would definitely host our own place - it's good for our readers, and it's good to create magazine loyalty. Every month, we'll join the servers to play with them. We don't have to swap friends contacts, or pray that our skill levels will broadly match. We just double click the server, and we're playing together. PC Gamer isn't alone - communities worldwide love hosting servers for their members. Peer-to-peer matchmaking stops that happening. Now, that specific group of fans simply can't play together. Even worse, without dedicated servers we can't enforce our 'don't be a dick' policy. We can't ban racist or homophobic players, nor can we appoint our own moderators to look after our community when we're not online.
Modern Warfare 2 launches in twenty days. It would be nice to see Infinity Ward demonstrate what advantages InfinityWard.net can offer as soon as possible.
You actually think Cheating is exclusive to PC gaming? .... wut?
PC gaming isn't dying, nor are games going to stop coming to the PC. Just because one single game fucks PC gamers over means nothing. Maybe... just maybe, instead of shoving all of the consoles in your rectum and pretending PC gaming doesn't exist.. why don't you try educating yourself about PC's and how they actually work... their history.. etc. It's a huge part of gaming. If you consider yourself a "gamer", it's something you should really try and acquaint yourself with.