[Editor's note: Community member AKK contributed a piece to our Weekly Musing subject on how to make gaming communities suck less. Please post your own over on the Community blogs. It may get read during our panel at PAX this Friday! -- CTZ]
Talk is cheap. Anonymous commenting on Web sites such as Destructoid is even cheaper. You know what isn't cheap (relatively speaking)? Posting on the Something Awful forums. It costs $9.95 to do this. Why is this a fantastic idea, and one that should be implemented elsewhere (to an extent)? Because it keeps the retards away.
Now, I'm not a member of the SA forums, simply because the site isn't my cup of tea. Were I interested in being a part of the SA community, I'd probably plunk down the 10 bucks, because I'd find myself among people who A) won't spam shit and B) won't be retarded.
Why? Because when you can potentially be banned due to retardation without a refund for a site you paid to access, you are significantly less likely to (I would think) do something retarded.
Now, I don't think every site should implement this, abso-fucking-lutely not, because I don't suddenly want to pay $200 bucks to continue with my current activities on the 20 or so sites I visit with immense frequency. However, were Destructoid to allow anyone to read all the articles, and have an ad-free version where you could pay and comment, I wouldn't be as bothered as I'm sure most people would.
The problem is then segmenting the population. To a gamer, ten bucks really isn't that much. Hell, it's cheaper than most new XBLA titles, and I will get more enjoyment out of using Destructoid in the long run than probably any game that's on my 360 HDD, but it still cuts the group into the "paid" and the "haven't paid," and that's problematic in and of itself.
You won't get a lot of complaints, because the people who would be complaining lose the ability due to the fact that they don't want to waste their money getting banned for being a bitch, but there would certainly be a loss of traffic at Destructoid, possibly a significant loss.
Do the benefits outweigh the negatives? I don't know. I'd pay the 10 bucks, and I'm probably not the only one who would (I don't use my blog much, and I don't comment with alarming frequency, but I still think it would be worth it in the end, given how frequently I use the site just to get news and have a laugh).
However, to get the dumb motherfuckers off the internet, you need to actually punish them. They can make a new email, get a new IP address, etc. What can't they get? A new credit card number. But, even if they can (and I think it's possible with certain online things), who's going to waste a hundred bucks making 10 accounts solely to whine that Batman: Arkham Asylum only got an 8.0? Maybe one or two people, but it would immensely cut down on the overall stupidity.
As I write this, I read next to my words that Destructoid tries to be an open community, and that's where this idea falls apart. It certainly privatizes some parts of Destructoid. Not all of it, certainly not, but it certainly wouldn't be "open" in any logical sense of the word.
As I said at the beginning, talk is cheap. However, when you're paying for the privilege to talk, chances are your words will be chosen a little bit more carefully. Or, we could add one of those YouTube "have your comment read back to you" things, and make it mandatory. Then, hopefully, retards will realize how fucking dumb they sound and change it.
But maybe not.
[Editor's note: AKK didn't have a single picture in his original post so I gave him some of my best animal pictures. I so go out of my way for you all! -- CTZ]
Contest:
3:20 PM on 09.01.2009
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Elitism would run rampant - effectively making the community worse with infighting, you would also drive away decent posters who don't want to pay for the additional features. Another problem evident with SA is that sometime Lowtax decides he needs more money and goes on a banning spree.
I enjoy reading the articles on SA, but I would never pay for access to the forums.
Of course that takes more work and can still promote elitist behavior, but it does less so than monetizing a barrier to entry.
There's NO way to get people to actually sit down and seriously read the rules without an entrance fee.
I hope no one thinks this is an elitist way of thinking. I just happen to enjoy the SA forums a ton. Editors will no doubt come in and say "charging for forums, bad idea blah we are a free community", but there is some merit to this idea.
@Zan
You simply ban people for being too elitist and unwelcoming: simple. Also, Lowtax has never actually banned tons of people for no good reason.
I'd love to hear some other opinions on the subject (although I do suspect all staff members would be highly against it 100%).
For example:
You need to have a valid World of Warcraft account to post on their forums. That's 15 bucks a month. Go read their forums and tell me if their quality is any better or worse.
If you need more examples, most other modern MMO's require a valid subscription to post (but not read) their forums as well.
Yeah, that seems great. :|
Also AKK, you used a form of the word "retard" 5 times in a single article. You owe all of us $9.95 for having to read them 5 TIMES IN A SINGLE ARTICLE. Next time, try a thesaurus.
As for something awful, its nest not to talk about them. I love the site, its the heart of the internet at times, but honestly, advertising it only attracts more assholes. Just like Destructoid. I find it hilarious most of the images are stolen from there too, something a few years ago was intolerable and I still find intolerable.
Being a strong hold for elitists was just a side effect I thought.
That's the cost of doin' business.
But, considering Technophiles comments, I'm inclined to think that comment jerkishness comes at any price.
But, its interesting in theory.
Just the grand majority. The free-to-play MMOs tend to cause people to watch to punch kittens.
A few people have brought this idea to me over time in different ways. It would be easy to implement and we could obviously use the funds as hookers and servers don't come cheap, but the value would have to be there. SA still has a ton of rowdy goons (and they like it that way). We'd have to ban people and then give them a refund.
What other ways can we add value?
Not a single one.
What about user moderation? That at least lets the community swat flies. But that seem pretty closely linked to the number of comments in blogs anyway. Thankfully dtoid's community is pretty low on the idiot/quality ratio.
While saying "cliques are bad" is a pretty naive thing, I think that user-moderation and pay-to-say make it a lot easier for the site to become a clique instead of a community. The more you increase the cost of entry, the more the voices all sound the same.
I like hearing people that aren't hear everyday weigh in just as much as the regulars. They still ought to get an avatar, though.
I'm a regular at SA's WH2K board (in fact, it's my home page) and occasional visitor to Games and YCS too, and I love it more than any other forum I've ever come across - and I primarily put that down to the registration fee. Some people don't think it's an issue and are happy to shell out another $10 to re-join if it means they get to post their hilarious troll message first, but the vast, vast majority of the users adhere strictly to the rules for each forum and you can actually get mature discussion there consistently.
I don't even read the front page of SA or three quarters of the forums, I just use three of the boards and that's it - and I don't regret laying down my $10 for the privilege two years ago. I certainly don't think SA does everything right and a lot of it's ''humour'' I don't find at all entertaining, but the forums are really great and a huge part of that is the registration fee that instantly cuts out the vast majority of the crap.
Would charging a registration fee be the right move for DToid? I doubt it, the community's been free for too long now to start charging anyone for anything. Does DToid need it? Probably not, by and large this is one of the most civilised communities around, especially within video gaming. However while it probably isn't something DToid should do (or needs), to say that such schemes don't really effect the quality of a community is wrong. You've just got to look at SA's (proper) forums to see the effect that charging people just $10 to be there has.
Hmm, became a bit tl;dr I know, but it's a system I'm a keen supporter of. So... oh, balls.
Fuck that place
However, I'm not sure that it will keep idiots out. Sure, it might keep Mr. Comic Spammer Asshole out, but what about the guy who thinks that being a total asshole is worth ten bucks? Over and over again.
I do think it'd work to a large extent, but, like you say, it's hard to predict whether the return would be worth it.
Make premium membership.
*Free T-Shirt
*Exclusive forum
*Comments stand out
I could think of more if I put the time into it. It would be better to have an added benefit rather than taking away what we already have.
Also a use will think to themselves "Hmm I could buy a shirt or I could buy a membership that comes with a shirt".
Honestly it's not that horrible. Just ignore the assholes.
This complaint isn't just to commentators or forum users but also many "journalists" and bloggers who seem to think that calling an executive "retarded" gets the point across more clearly than using a word that took a few seconds of thought to unveil, something like dolt, for instance. I'm sick of it because it makes the internet seem unintelligent, lazy and worse - not very creative.
And the idea that people would care more about their comments might be true until a moderator began to get trigger-happy with the banhammer (many online communities know what I mean)... When that happend, the site's community will be more injured that if they were free to begin with. After all, who would pay 10$ to get into a community where he can be banned and lost their money with no explanation just because some voluntary person felt offended that he doesn't agree with his opinion on the best console.
Making us pay for using DToid and the blogs? That would crush my heart completely. I won't go into detail or rant or anything but I honestly would just think it was wrong.
I wouldn't pay for it. I would snuggle up with my blankey and weep until they came to their senses.
Just felt like throwing that out there.
Think about it, we could just reply "ka-ching!" to the trolls.
I dunno... maybe you should just get over the people you disagree with or think are "retarded" (wow that's not offensive), instead of instating some kind of pay system that stifles the voices of people without so much expendable income?
I'd be all for having the ability to purchase "titles" or something that would help fund the site and display your contribution to the rest of the community, but paid exclusivity is kind of dumb.
What about us from shitty 3rd world country hellholes?
Not only it would be like 25 bucks here, there's also the credit card problem.
And then the haters would come, saying it is a sellout site, roberry and etc.
A long time ago, I was a frequent contributor to IGN's message boards. Went there every day, had an awesome community with back and forth conversations on many different boards that I visited.
Then, one day, IGN put up the pay wall known as Insider and promptly destroyed all but one of the message boards I frequented by forcing the non-paying users out. The anime boards lost over half of their users in a flash, and the wrestling boards I frequented all but went quiet for a week. The only one that did survive was a general console board.
Needless to say, since then, most of the boards that were heavily damaged by Insider didn't recover. Some did, but they were the exception.
In essence, IGN's paywall destroyed what sense of community there was on their boards for quite some time. It still doesn't feel the same when I visit every blue moon. I don't want that to happen here, though Niero deserves every penny he earns.
People need to understand their mutual perspectives. Everyone plays games for different reasons and find different things "fun." If you segment the community by play style, you can exchange information with people who share your perspective. If you don't you get Congress.... you choose.
My friend has been a long time goon and has shown me the light that is... well $10 at the door. It has been a ten spot well spent, HOWEVER, the internet is full of morons, assholes, and otherwise loud mouthed jerk offs, no matter what price tag you put and how many times they get banned for the stupid shit they do.
That being said... the quality of OPs on SA's forums simply can't be beat. If I had the power to ban on this site for some of the inane shit people consider community blog worthy... good Christ. Also, when it comes to gaming, there are some fuckers on SA who SERIOUSLY, know their shit. For real.
Life, is just a series of trade offs though.
(Nothing will ever fill the void of D-Toid at work but oh well... I do get paid for a reason. That is to say, I work more now and fuck around on the internet less.)
I think its obvious that charging for something is a great way to get the kind of user base/quality of people you want (take golf courses for example), the real question is how much of your current fan base you are willing to risk alienating, and how much you will actually lose in doing so.
But that IS the point of the article. That charging would somehow make the bad people go away and my point was it doesn't. Not only does it not keep out the trolls, but it segregates your userbase as well.
and yes, you do have to pay to post on the WOW forums. It says so right on their forum index and yes, they do ban people there all the time for the same type of garbage that would get them banned anywhere else. Pointing at examples of idiocy weights the same argument as pointing towards examples of awesome.
@sohnvonben
You could look at it that way I guess, but it doesn't change the fact that part of your 15 dollars is going towards maintenance and moderation of those forums. So use them or not you still pay for them. Unlike SA, you actually get a full game to play with it.
As for SA, I think the forums are fantastic and it's because of the pay system (which is mostly to pay for what might be the most-read forums ever.) But it wouldn't work for this kind of community, not yet anyhow.
Yep, my uncle's retarded, and he's way classier than this article. Just sayin'.