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I'm not saying she's a gold digger. But she ain't messing with no broke gamers.
On a related tangent to your point, I'd also say that people need to learn to take criticism better (at least when it's constructive). People can get extremely defensive in the face of feedback when they should be looking for what they can take from it to improve in the future.
On a related tangent to your point, I'd also say that people need to learn to take criticism better (at least when it's constructive). People can get extremely defensive in the face of feedback when they should be looking for what they can take from it to improve in the future.
LOL! Good blog and very true. We as gamers do seem to fall into a negativity trap, but as you noted, the psychology is there that we simply feel more strongly about negatives than we tend do about positives.
Also... whining often works. Battlefield Bad Company had no southpaw controls, people whined, and Battlefield:1943 had them. Many games had no female avatars, people whined and R2 and MGO added them in DLC. Killzone's assault class was perceived as overpowered, people whined and the devs nerfed the assault class a bit (and also tweaked the airbots due to people's whines). As you've said, constructive whining works - so people will continue to do it.
... besides, whining or ranting is just simply far more fun than playing nice. :)
Also... whining often works. Battlefield Bad Company had no southpaw controls, people whined, and Battlefield:1943 had them. Many games had no female avatars, people whined and R2 and MGO added them in DLC. Killzone's assault class was perceived as overpowered, people whined and the devs nerfed the assault class a bit (and also tweaked the airbots due to people's whines). As you've said, constructive whining works - so people will continue to do it.
... besides, whining or ranting is just simply far more fun than playing nice. :)
Bravo, good sir. The Negativity Bias may not be the best support for your argument though. Instead, I think most people criticize games due to the interaction of multiple cognitive biases. These might include various superiority biases like the Pollyanna Principle (how many times have you looked at the story or art of a game and thought "I can do better"), the Contrast Effect (Game A is good and came out recently, and Game B comes out tomorrow, but is nothing like Game A. Game B must suck), and Choice-Supportive Bias, where people tend to consider their choices, or in this case purchases, as better than they actually are.
Oh, and your blog's textures suck.
Oh, and your blog's textures suck.
@walkyourpath: Oh piss off I can't believe you're criticizing me what did I ever do to you Two Worlds is way better than you think it is and people just don't get it.
@Elsa: Exactly! Whining and ranting are great, but they have to be done right. I mean, consider an MMO and what it would be like without community feedback. At the same time, it doesn't help anyone if you're not criticizing with the idea of getting things changed.
@Quantum Zombie: Damn, you've given me a bunch of reading material. Shit, maybe you should have been the one to write this blog--or perhaps another one! Also, you'r mom's textures suck.
@Elsa: Exactly! Whining and ranting are great, but they have to be done right. I mean, consider an MMO and what it would be like without community feedback. At the same time, it doesn't help anyone if you're not criticizing with the idea of getting things changed.
@Quantum Zombie: Damn, you've given me a bunch of reading material. Shit, maybe you should have been the one to write this blog--or perhaps another one! Also, you'r mom's textures suck.
Complaining about video games has taken on a whole new level ever since the Internet came about. I'm one of the old-timers that still remembers the pre-Internet days. Back then, you didn't like a game, you didn't play it and moved on to the next one. Simple as that.
Sure, you may have told your friends about it (you can only shot left and right in this game, they don't let you carry more than 1 item, there are no continues), and you may have made jokes about it, but it was almost as if we were keeping our bitching at the purest level; we talked about the gameplay. And we didn't have to impress anyone.
Now? Everyone has a voice. And to be seen in the crowd, some people feel they need a gimmick. Whether it is going overboard with their complaints, or going after the popular game just because everyone else likes it...the need to be seen is there.
Damn kids. Get off my game console! Why, I oughta...
Sure, you may have told your friends about it (you can only shot left and right in this game, they don't let you carry more than 1 item, there are no continues), and you may have made jokes about it, but it was almost as if we were keeping our bitching at the purest level; we talked about the gameplay. And we didn't have to impress anyone.
Now? Everyone has a voice. And to be seen in the crowd, some people feel they need a gimmick. Whether it is going overboard with their complaints, or going after the popular game just because everyone else likes it...the need to be seen is there.
Damn kids. Get off my game console! Why, I oughta...
I think we're at a point where, as gamers, we expect things to happen because all these companies come out and say they can do this and that (which they rarely do). Have you ever read the stuff posted on the Alan Wake forums? That's a prime example of gamers locked in the mindset of expectations.
In the end, I could blame the company hype, but the problem also lies with the consumer for not taking the time out to dissect what's in front of them. I can think of at least three games where I just blindly followed the leader and then had the audacity to complain...One of them was Driver 3.
In the end, I could blame the company hype, but the problem also lies with the consumer for not taking the time out to dissect what's in front of them. I can think of at least three games where I just blindly followed the leader and then had the audacity to complain...One of them was Driver 3.
My "naysayer" example according to your descriptions. Oh, the PS3 got a price cut, and its got some really good games. But it doesn't have BC so its totally a waste of time. You're so stupid sony!
Otherwise...great blog. I agree with the negativity, and I accuse myself of being the same way at times. You're example of focusing on only bad stuff can be seen everywhere!
Otherwise...great blog. I agree with the negativity, and I accuse myself of being the same way at times. You're example of focusing on only bad stuff can be seen everywhere!
Ha, nice! I liked this post. A lot. You brought up some very good points. I do think that slamming on games has become far too common nowadays. It's amazing to me that games and technology advances to such a point that we can now play a game where you can literally go anywhere and do anything, and people are still not satisfied. Yet, 15 years ago, we praised even the most mediocre games because there wasn't much to choose from, and any impressions we got from a game were our own, and not spoon fed to us by gaming sites.
But as soon as the gaming market becomes saturated with sooooo many games, and so many gaming sites, we are suddenly of a mind to start criticizing even the most mundane aspects of a game. Coming from a 31 year old gamer who grew up on the "old-skool" Commodore 64, Atari 2600, Atari 7800, NES, SNES, Genesis, 32x, SegaCD, Saturn, I find this just insane on so many levels.
But as soon as the gaming market becomes saturated with sooooo many games, and so many gaming sites, we are suddenly of a mind to start criticizing even the most mundane aspects of a game. Coming from a 31 year old gamer who grew up on the "old-skool" Commodore 64, Atari 2600, Atari 7800, NES, SNES, Genesis, 32x, SegaCD, Saturn, I find this just insane on so many levels.
@Zombiekiller: Oh, and it's certainly not only in gaming. I can't BELIEVE the amount of negativity that I've seen on my music site. I posted a "good" review of the most recent Dream Theater album, and I got shit from both sides. People said I "obviously didn't like this kind of music" because I didn't rate it highly enough. Others took it as an opportunity to take a giant shit on the band for not making the music that they want.
I think it's awesome that everyone has a voice. Truly. But there are times that I question why I think that way.
@Stevil: And, see, I think that's totally valid. I mean, it's a company's job to make great games for us, but it's also their job to give us a realistic idea of what to expect from a product. If they don't do this, they deserve to be shat upon with the fury of Montezuma. This way, they'll hopefully learn that they can't mislead their consumers. Of course, there are better ways to do this than just being negative for no reason.
@Tha Meat: Perfect example. Why not just celebrate the good news for a while? Am I disappointed in the lack of BC? Sure! Do I think Sony should have done that differently? Sure! Am I going to be a dick about it? Nah, I'll refrain. I don't think it's constructive.
I think it's awesome that everyone has a voice. Truly. But there are times that I question why I think that way.
@Stevil: And, see, I think that's totally valid. I mean, it's a company's job to make great games for us, but it's also their job to give us a realistic idea of what to expect from a product. If they don't do this, they deserve to be shat upon with the fury of Montezuma. This way, they'll hopefully learn that they can't mislead their consumers. Of course, there are better ways to do this than just being negative for no reason.
@Tha Meat: Perfect example. Why not just celebrate the good news for a while? Am I disappointed in the lack of BC? Sure! Do I think Sony should have done that differently? Sure! Am I going to be a dick about it? Nah, I'll refrain. I don't think it's constructive.
@kauza
Nah, It'd feel awkward if I wrote this blog. I mean I love the idea you've got going, but I'd feel guilty about writing a blog called "Objection!" when I haven't even played Phoenix Wright. I am shamed.
Besides, I don't have time for an ongoing series yet. Maybe in a few weeks.
P.S. My mom is an early build, so expect the textures to be improved when she ships. xD
Nah, It'd feel awkward if I wrote this blog. I mean I love the idea you've got going, but I'd feel guilty about writing a blog called "Objection!" when I haven't even played Phoenix Wright. I am shamed.
Besides, I don't have time for an ongoing series yet. Maybe in a few weeks.
P.S. My mom is an early build, so expect the textures to be improved when she ships. xD
"I mean, it's a company's job to make great games for us..."
Cynically, it's a company's job (like every other business) to make money. Games are just a product of that. It's something I find that most gamers need to get their head around, but I guess that's a whole different kettle of fish that would take a while to explain. That's not say the developers do it out of a love of money or whatever. It's just that side of the industy needs to be acknowledged more.
I also think companies like to aim their PR-friendly image at the imnpressionable like younger gamers who don't really understand how the industy works. All that fanboy shit is generally young teens who buy into that whole 'Sony vs Microsoft' bullshit that games journalists use to sell mags or websites. I think websites have the power to better inform them and I just don't see that happening at all. Just more expectation hype to advertise.
Cynically, it's a company's job (like every other business) to make money. Games are just a product of that. It's something I find that most gamers need to get their head around, but I guess that's a whole different kettle of fish that would take a while to explain. That's not say the developers do it out of a love of money or whatever. It's just that side of the industy needs to be acknowledged more.
I also think companies like to aim their PR-friendly image at the imnpressionable like younger gamers who don't really understand how the industy works. All that fanboy shit is generally young teens who buy into that whole 'Sony vs Microsoft' bullshit that games journalists use to sell mags or websites. I think websites have the power to better inform them and I just don't see that happening at all. Just more expectation hype to advertise.
"it's a company's job (like every other business) to make money"
Oh, absolutely. I actually meant to mention that in my comment, but it must have slipped my mind. But, yes, any for-profit business's main objective is always to make money. And that's where I think criticism can both succeed and fail. If a game is really, truly awful, criticizing it really isn't all that constructive. What's really going to bring about a change is just letting it fade into nothingness: no purchase, no discussion. The company gets no profit, it can't survive, and we don't have to deal with garbage from it.
When we have a company that does make good stuff, that's when we need to be more careful with our criticism. Chances are, we're going to give our money to them. They might take this as "We're doing everything right, so let's change nothing." Nope, game developer, you can't be allowed to get off that easy. Developers need our criticism to remind them that, even if their game is incredible, there are things that need to be fixed.
So, yeah, it's absolutely realistic to say that the main job of a company is to make money, and we, as the people giving them our money, need to make sure that this is directly tied to making good games. Most of us do that naturally. But there are certainly times when our own negativity can get in the way of that.
Oh, absolutely. I actually meant to mention that in my comment, but it must have slipped my mind. But, yes, any for-profit business's main objective is always to make money. And that's where I think criticism can both succeed and fail. If a game is really, truly awful, criticizing it really isn't all that constructive. What's really going to bring about a change is just letting it fade into nothingness: no purchase, no discussion. The company gets no profit, it can't survive, and we don't have to deal with garbage from it.
When we have a company that does make good stuff, that's when we need to be more careful with our criticism. Chances are, we're going to give our money to them. They might take this as "We're doing everything right, so let's change nothing." Nope, game developer, you can't be allowed to get off that easy. Developers need our criticism to remind them that, even if their game is incredible, there are things that need to be fixed.
So, yeah, it's absolutely realistic to say that the main job of a company is to make money, and we, as the people giving them our money, need to make sure that this is directly tied to making good games. Most of us do that naturally. But there are certainly times when our own negativity can get in the way of that.
You know, I see the merit in giving 60+ dollar games a hard time. I mean, if you're investing your time and money into something like that, I expect you to warn others if it's a steaming pile. I mean, this is different of course to the nit-picking and general negativity you're talking about.
The thing I personally don't get is people who too harsh on free games. Like people who gripe about Runner "not being an actual game" or something of the sort. Constructive criticism, sure. But not just tearing it down for no productive reason. It's free. Write a blog or comment about it that informs people of what it's all about. But then again, I'm not one of those people who plays a game that I don't like and think it was a waste of 30 minutes of my life. I find worse ways to piss away 30 minutes of my life than playing a free game.
And also, I agree. Fuck the science. People sometimes use psychological findings to justify something they're too lazy to change. Sure it's "natural" to dwell on the negatives, but once you're made cognizant of that aspect of yourself you're given the opportunity to change. I made the conscious effort to not dwell on negatives and now I enjoy many more things in life. It's just another form of habit formation.
LOVED this blog!
The thing I personally don't get is people who too harsh on free games. Like people who gripe about Runner "not being an actual game" or something of the sort. Constructive criticism, sure. But not just tearing it down for no productive reason. It's free. Write a blog or comment about it that informs people of what it's all about. But then again, I'm not one of those people who plays a game that I don't like and think it was a waste of 30 minutes of my life. I find worse ways to piss away 30 minutes of my life than playing a free game.
And also, I agree. Fuck the science. People sometimes use psychological findings to justify something they're too lazy to change. Sure it's "natural" to dwell on the negatives, but once you're made cognizant of that aspect of yourself you're given the opportunity to change. I made the conscious effort to not dwell on negatives and now I enjoy many more things in life. It's just another form of habit formation.
LOVED this blog!
Wow, others have already said so much there's not much left for me to say.
How about I just leave by saying ... GREAT READ!!!
How about I just leave by saying ... GREAT READ!!!
Love the new series. Sometimes I really feel for the game company's because no matter what they do people get pissed and start claiming they are boycotting because of X,Y,Z. Seriously folks, if you don't like it don't buy it, no reason to be a big cry baby about it and insist that nobody else like it just because you don't.
Also, I know you totally weren't kidding about the unicorn so I got you this;
Also, I know you totally weren't kidding about the unicorn so I got you this;
@Zodiac: I feel really bad for Blizzard in that regard, as I think that they're really often subjected to a lot of unfair scrutiny. At the same time, I think it's good for them to a point, at least in those few occasions where people get upset about something important. I could see Blizzard as the sort of company that could get really comfortable resting on its laurels and not fixing something if it's obviously broken. But I do give Blizzard credit for knowing when a shitstorm is, in reality, a bullshit storm.
Also, baby unicorn! Haha, god, I'm going to become the unicorn guy. I'll never reveal if I'm actually being serious about the unicorn stuff. Gotta keep the mystery alive!
One more thing: can I just say thing I'm about 100% certain that this is the only gaming community at which I could actually get a positive response and awesome discussion out of something like this? Dammit, I feel like writing another "I <3 Destructoid" post.
Also, baby unicorn! Haha, god, I'm going to become the unicorn guy. I'll never reveal if I'm actually being serious about the unicorn stuff. Gotta keep the mystery alive!
One more thing: can I just say thing I'm about 100% certain that this is the only gaming community at which I could actually get a positive response and awesome discussion out of something like this? Dammit, I feel like writing another "I <3 Destructoid" post.
@Kauza:: "There’s something called the negativity bias..." -- if we look at how human societies reinforce behaviors and provide feedback, negative feedback/reinforcement is far more effective. It's easier to bring someone down for their faults and shortcomings than to bring someone up for their achievements or talents. This can be reduced to a basic competitive instinct between all human beings. The desire to prove their superiority to spread their genetic material. If you give someone positive reinforcement, you are essentially raising them closer to yourself in a comptetive nature -- which is no good for being the alpha of the group. This social group has become huge because of the internets, and now we have many more people competing to be on top.
There was a fairly interesting documentary I saw called "Heckler" (and, yes, it was put together by Jamie Kennedy) that actually addressed "bloggers". It raised a very valid point that most blogger critics try to come up with the worst putdowns so that they will be remembered -- which brings further traffic to their blog. Since people reading your shit would be a positive reinforcement (thus, less effective), these bloggers need A LOT of attention to feel satisfied in what they are doing.
@Kauza & Quantum Zombie:: Based on my Choice-Supportive Bias, both of your Mom's textures are not so bad... : )~
There was a fairly interesting documentary I saw called "Heckler" (and, yes, it was put together by Jamie Kennedy) that actually addressed "bloggers". It raised a very valid point that most blogger critics try to come up with the worst putdowns so that they will be remembered -- which brings further traffic to their blog. Since people reading your shit would be a positive reinforcement (thus, less effective), these bloggers need A LOT of attention to feel satisfied in what they are doing.
@Kauza & Quantum Zombie:: Based on my Choice-Supportive Bias, both of your Mom's textures are not so bad... : )~
@The Prodigal Son: Man, good call. I actually have the Bears/Broncos game in the background right now, and "negativity" and heckling have been a huge part of the game thanks to a rather unpopular quarterback trade. Again, makes me realize how much easier it is to just boo a player than it is to cheer for a different player. Sure, it's more fun, and it certainly brings attention to you, even in a crowd of 50,000. Totally different idea than bloggers and game site commenters, but they seem to share some similarities.
Also, really awesome point about competition. I absolutely think that people online are constantly competing with each other, but it's too bad that so many just try to compete to be the biggest dick. Hey, if you can be the best at something, I guess you would pursue it, even if it's just a race to get the most people to hate you.
Also, really awesome point about competition. I absolutely think that people online are constantly competing with each other, but it's too bad that so many just try to compete to be the biggest dick. Hey, if you can be the best at something, I guess you would pursue it, even if it's just a race to get the most people to hate you.
@Kauza:: It makes sense. It's easier to be a big dick than to be a really great person. Great people get shit on (usually by the ones trying to be dicks). It's the world we live. It's only a matter of time before society collapses in on itself.
@The Prodigal Son: And we could argue that society has done so at least a few times already. :) Game communities certainly have!
You wouldn’t criticize your partner’s ability to bring you pleasure in bed because you want her to think you’re an asshole and punch you in the gonads, would you? No, you’d want to give her feedback on what she’s doing wrong so that you can, in the future, get the pleasure that you want. You’ll probably be punched in the gonads either way, so perhaps my analogy here isn’t so great …
LOL.
LOL.
While we're at it, how about we get rid of the gamers' civil war. No more "Casual Gamer" VS "Hardcore Gamer" drama. What happened to the days where there were just gamers?
I'd have to say this blog was positively enlightening, and that this is a great way to improve not only Destructoid, but any forum.
Also, I love you all.
Also, I love you all.
Young kids basically ruin any sort of intelligent debate in a gaming community.
Whilst I'd LOVE to sit down and talk about the merits of Assassin's Creed versus say, Prince of Persia, only two out of ten people will have anything intelligent to add to the conversation; and that's a shame.
Whilst I'd LOVE to sit down and talk about the merits of Assassin's Creed versus say, Prince of Persia, only two out of ten people will have anything intelligent to add to the conversation; and that's a shame.
Excellent blog. This is one of the major flaws of the gaming community, and you handled it really well. It sparked a little idea in my head about egocentrism and economic-jealousy in the gaming industry, so I'm going to go write a tiny little blog about it now. =D
@ zombiekiller13
Totally agree sir! I too am an old man, and I blame the internets for all this negativity. I remember back when I was growing up we had no internet! At most we could write letters to the editors. Criticism required more thought, and generally accrued more positive results. I remember reading comics and being so upset about a story arc or something, and having to sit down with a pen and paper of all things and draft a letter as to why it upset me. The quality of the criticism was better because you really only had one shot to address your displeasure in a meaningful enough way to get a result (and maybe a t-shirt!) No blogs to rant for DAYS. No forums to keep the never ending bullshit crusade alive.
Don't get me wrong. I enjoy the instant ability to comment and share in a community of like-minded individuals about things that we ALL find important . The internet has given us so many GOOD things (easy access porn comes to mind) But, with the ability to give EVERYONE a voice you are going to end up with people who don't want to make things better or even care about the topic. They are just social networking fire starters, and to quote Alfred Pennyworth, "some people just want to watch the world burn."
Totally agree sir! I too am an old man, and I blame the internets for all this negativity. I remember back when I was growing up we had no internet! At most we could write letters to the editors. Criticism required more thought, and generally accrued more positive results. I remember reading comics and being so upset about a story arc or something, and having to sit down with a pen and paper of all things and draft a letter as to why it upset me. The quality of the criticism was better because you really only had one shot to address your displeasure in a meaningful enough way to get a result (and maybe a t-shirt!) No blogs to rant for DAYS. No forums to keep the never ending bullshit crusade alive.
Don't get me wrong. I enjoy the instant ability to comment and share in a community of like-minded individuals about things that we ALL find important . The internet has given us so many GOOD things (easy access porn comes to mind) But, with the ability to give EVERYONE a voice you are going to end up with people who don't want to make things better or even care about the topic. They are just social networking fire starters, and to quote Alfred Pennyworth, "some people just want to watch the world burn."
“F**k you, you f**king d*ck, always naysaying everything I create, you piece of sh*t.”
Quoting Tenacious D are we? You're awesome. Inward singing is awesome btw.
Also, good blog.
Quoting Tenacious D are we? You're awesome. Inward singing is awesome btw.
Also, good blog.
This is such a good post because its so true. I always think of myself as a positive person, upbeat, I smile a lot, people say I make them sick in the morning because I love my life. But as soon as I hit the internet and this website to post something, almost always something negative starts to come out. I always find myself revising my posts to the point where I just say "forget about it" and just refrain since I don't want to sound like a whiner.
Its definitely something that would make communities better but its going to be a hard habit to break for all the millions of us on the interwebs.
Its definitely something that would make communities better but its going to be a hard habit to break for all the millions of us on the interwebs.
I think i'm the opposite of the "hater", i always end up giving more attention to the good things of a game than the bad(Mirror's Edge, Assassin's Creed, Fable II... ; all underrated).
@BattyAdroit
Agreed, sometimes i think Jim is too critic and might end up forgeting what videogames are all abou, fun.
@BattyAdroit
Agreed, sometimes i think Jim is too critic and might end up forgeting what videogames are all abou, fun.
internet-writing-wise, I've always found it much easier and more defensible to be negative. I'm very unhappy about this as well, and I try to think of ways to be positive that will entertain or even just end silly arguments.
I don't often succeed.
I don't often succeed.
I will read whatever I find to be entertaining and informative. The direction of another's opinion is only ever agreed upon when matching your own, and derided when it does not anyway. Thus positives can be felt negatively.
If someone wants to lay into a game (or praise a game) for whatever reason then that's fine by me. If what they say or do offers no contribution then I'm not interested.
I'd rather someone say something that I disagree with but was said well, rather than something I agree with and was hollow.
If someone wants to lay into a game (or praise a game) for whatever reason then that's fine by me. If what they say or do offers no contribution then I'm not interested.
I'd rather someone say something that I disagree with but was said well, rather than something I agree with and was hollow.
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