games  anime  |  toys
Destructoid is gaming news, community, videos, and sometimes love. Take the tour or jump in with Facebook:

 



[Editor's note: naia-the-gamer takes a look at a genre that is very near and dear to her heart. Read on to see how Naia would change the JRPG genre as part of May's Monthly Musings. -- CTZ

This is hard for me. This editorial means that I am willing to admit it. It's like admitting your children have flaws. However, this is necessary to write down and admit it: JRPGs need help. I love them dearly, and my fondest memories as a gamer stem from JRPGs of yore.

They are now at a turning point where they need to evolve or perish. Many gamers no longer have the patience to handle the quirks of JRPGs. The genre grows to become even more of a niche genre compared to the relative total of those who play videogames. How many people have played JRPGs that don’t have the words “Final” and “Fantasy” in them? I’ve thought long and hard about the games I love and come to terms with the obvious flaws present in the genre. I present my wish list of things that need to change to keep the life of the JRPG to thrive in today’s world. Read all about it after the jump.

Improve turn-based battles

Some people find turn-based battles to be cumbersome and monotonous. While I actually like them, there are ways they can make the mechanics more efficient for less patient players. The Dragon Quest series has implemented tactics the party members can default to and make their moves accordingly. A defensive tactic results in more status enhancing or healing techniques. Offensive tactics result in powerful techniques or spells. By making this method standard, it will allow players who don’t want to go through menus every turn.

Another option that worked extremely well was Phantasy Star IV with the use of Marcos. The player could hold a certain number of “macros” that plotted out which moves each character would use. The player picked exactly what skill or item each player used and saved it in a list. This was handy if a player favored certain skills that they used over and over. A click of one button allowed the players to execute many common moves without wasting time.

I took advantage of this frequently in PS IV. I’m actually disappointed that this hasn’t been implemented in more JRPGs. Anything that would allow players the option of shortening the time spent on picking moves would help attract players previously turned off. At the same time, those who want to take the time to plan out every move may still do so.



Random Battles

This is the subject of much debate among all gamers. Many old-school RPGs have excessive random encounter rates. While I had the patience when I was twelve, I no longer have the patience nor the time at twenty-seven. However some modern games have come up with a few ways to fix the problem. What needs to happen next is to identify what those are, and make sure they are implemented in every JRPG.

The first solution is to make the enemies themselves be present on the screen. Chrono Trigger, Dragon Quest Monsters: Joker, and even Blue Dragon did this. Other titles like Earthbound had the enemies react to you differently depending on how strong the characters were. Once their levels excelled beyond the enemies, they ran for the hills. It made it much easier to avoid the simple monsters when having to backtrack places. This solution works well because the player gets to see what he or she is fighting in advanced and adds immersion to the game.

A second solution that has been a staple in the Wild Arms series is the use of a counter system. When an enemy approaches a white exclamation point appears over the heads of the player. Wait a second or two and the battle commences. Don’t want to fight? Press the cancel button and the counter rate goes down. The player is given a certain number of times they can skip the battle before they are forced to fight. As the players get stronger the exclamation point will be green and won’t count against the counter level. This way the player can avoid weak enemies and manage the rate of battles against normal opponents. Despite the occasional unavoidable surprise attack (red exclamation point) this method is great for dealing with enemies without having to deal with battles every five steps. Plus as the game progresses the player can find ways to increase the gauge so the player can avoid more battles over time.

Enough with the clichés

This one is tough because some clichés are unavoidable, due to the nature of the limited types of storytelling that exist. However, it seems like many JRPGs (nowadays the more mediocre ones) suffer from the same kinds of plot devices or character archetypes. While they don’t need to be completely different, (not every game can be BioShock) some variety on the old plot devices would be welcome. Here are some examples of clichés, plot devices and characters, along with examples that I would like to see tweaked:



Brooding Hero: He’s got no memory of his past, the girls love him, and he likes to whine. Example: too many Square Enix games from the last ten years



Stereotypical Empire: The empire is always corrupt, divided into two sections, which always have the poor people planning a rebellion. Examples: Skies of Arcadia, FFVI, FFVII, Saga II and Final Fantasy Legend II.



Waif-female: She’s usually a magic user, may have gotten kidnapped and is ALWAYS in love with the hero. Why can’t she love one of the supporting characters? Or maybe she could be a lesbian? Examples: Skies of Arcadia, Chrono Trigger, FF IV- infinity, Phantasy Star II-IV, All of the Legend of Heroes games.



Gotta catch them all: Ever notice the prophets predict something catastrophic will happen when X number of Y item is brought together, but it is meant to be? Otherwise the bad guys will steal it for the power. Example: Every Zelda game (I know they’re not JRPGs), Dragon Quest Monsters: Joker, every Final Fantasy game that involved crystals, Enchanted Arms.



Romance: Awww young love. Why do JRPGs have to pair everyone up? Does saving the world make everyone so horny? How come they never break up either? Example: Half the Final Fantasies, Wild Arms II, Wild Arms IV, Skies of Arcadia, every game in the Lufia series, Chrono Trigger, Suikoden II, Blue Dragon (Zola was sooo much cooler than Kluke. I don’t get it).

Some of the examples I listed above are unavoidable, but could at least diverge from the tried and true formula. What if the bad buys already got X number of Y item and the mission for the player is to steal them back? What if the “waify female” was a mercenary who took shit from nobody? What if the hero would stop whining all the time?

Some aspects of plot, gameplay and character development are what make a JRPG after all, a JRPG. I wouldn’t want to see a complete overhaul of the genre by any stretch of the imagination. The problem is that not much has changed in the last ten years. I love 2D platformers, but I can appreciate the importance of taking the next step to 3D. If anything, it helps the continuing evolution of what 2D platformers have done today.

The same rings true with JRPGs. The same methods of strategy can still exist but in a more efficient and streamlined way. More options should be given to the player to customize his of her experience in how in depth they want the battles to be. The same stories aren’t bad, but they could use an update. Spice up some of the clichés I mentioned to make them more modern and more creative! Something that has revitalized genres in the past has been to combine aspects of one genre with another. Why not add some features present in Platformers or Fist Person Shooters? If it fits in the spirit of the game and isn’t forced it could be a nice addition.

I close with one final additional thought on the improvement of JRPGs. Stop hiring terrible voice actors. Disney got it right with Kingdom Hearts. Why can’t the rest of you? Keep the original Japanese voice acting or no voice acting at all. Videogames are more mainstream than ever, convince real actors your games are worth it!


LAUNCH GALLERY (7 IMAGES)
Photo Photo Photo Photo Photo Photo Photo
 

Continue: More Promoted stories stories





prev
next 50 comments

61 comments | showing # 1 to 50

nilcam's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/23/2008 14:47
nilcam
Great article. I would add in side quests, especially those that artificially add to a game's running time (see Baten Kaitos). I love old-school RPGs and stopped playing the genre after FFVII. I have s serious love-hate relationship with FFVII. Do spell animations need to be that long? Does every hero have to be a brooding pretty boy? Post-FFVII is when I started my love affair with Dragon Quest. DQ has the old-school charm in all the right places. That said, I can only deal with random encounters for a few hours and then I get frustrated and need a break.
Wexx's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/23/2008 14:54
Wexx
Totally. *flips hair out of face* I completely agree with you on the issue of cliches though. Most jrpgs are just so stale in their character designs/settings, I can't stand them after a while. good editorial :D
KyleGamgee's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/23/2008 14:58
KyleGamgee
She should be a lesbian!

I liked the whole article, but I really locked into that part there.
naia-the-gamer's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/23/2008 15:01
naia-the-gamer
I don't mind side quests so much because by nature, you don't HAVE to do them. Most of the time I prefer doing those over the main story in most games. I agree that busy work should be eliminated, however. That sort of goes with the catch 'em all cliche.

Animation summons only seem to bother me in the FF games. They got more and more over the top (I made it to FFIX before I threw in the towel). I do remember FFIX had shorter versions of the summons that took up less time.
nilcam's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/23/2008 15:15
nilcam
@naia: I misused the term side quest; maybe fetch quest is more accurate. I'm thinking about all of the "I have something you need but I need something from a person 3 towns over who needs something from the first town in the game" crap. Ugh.
PaperBowser0's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/23/2008 15:31
PaperBowser0
No, no.....NOT THE JRPG'S!!!!!!!!!
taumpytears's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/23/2008 15:35
taumpytears
I'm all for new and improved jrpg's.
naia-the-gamer's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/23/2008 15:38
naia-the-gamer
@nilcam:

ah. I got it now. I know exactly what you're talking about, and yes I agree those need to stop. You get so wrapped up in the fetch quest that you forget what the original objective was and you realize it was all a ruse to level grind and make the game longer.
seltzermx's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/23/2008 15:52
seltzermx
Great write-up and I wholeheartedly agree with your points. However, its nice to see that certain games are breaking out of that trend. Once again, I must bring up Lost Odyssey.

Some people thought its turn based battles were too old-school but I really did enjoy them.

And true, they did have random battles, but not as many as other games, and their XP cap per level really made grinding almost non-existent. You have about 10-15-ish random fights per area (small amount by JRPG standard) and you’re more than ready to go to the next one.

As for the brooding hero, Kaim starts off that way, but you actually see a lot of depth to his character as his memories return. Also, at least they didn’t make him a pretty boy, cuz he is one ugly accessorized mofo.

As for the evil empire.. well, is it really evil its being duped into being evil without realizing it? Uhra seems evil only because of Gongora’s deeds; but if he’s disassociated with it, it’s actually quite nice.

As for the helpless waif cliché, I don’t think the chicks in LO fall into that. Seth is more than a badass, and Ming and Sarah were in a sense sandbagged. Not necessarily helpless.

There’s also no real gotta catch’em all main quest in the game. Gongora starts out as a full-powered SOB and goes down that way. No need to stop him before he collects “crystals” and gets too strong. Yes yes, he had Grand Staff, but he was using that against the tower so I don’t think it counts.

And as for romance, (trying not to spoil anything), I didn’t see a problem with Kaim, and come, lets face it, who wouldn’t fall for Jansen. Hell, I’d do him.

All in all, I think LO had enough great elements in it to make it a great JRPG, but still managed to stand out, avoid most clichés, and make for one hell of an awesome ride.
Spartacus's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/23/2008 15:58
Spartacus
I really like it when you can see the monster in the map before you fight it, like in Tales of Symphonia.

One thing I have an issue with is setting it so that the game decides what your player does like in Dragon Quest VIII. If you're too lazy to do that, you shouldn't be playing Dragon Quest.
animateria's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/23/2008 16:08
animateria
I'd say turn-base combat itself it very niche.

Waiting to press attack is pretty much the reason why I play less and less JRPGs. (I haven't touched Persona 3 yet for the same reason, though that may change soon).

Its a perfect form of play for handhelds, which can use less focus, but for consoles its tedious.

I understand its usage in SRPGs, another niche genre, but standing around isn't particularly interesting when you are fighting 2 wolves and a soldier.

Ah, the story... Always has been the issue, and will always be. My general fading interest in anime, and JRPGs fit this bill quite well. Almost none of the recent storylines are interesting or engaging. This probably won't go away for a while though.

That said, I Persona 3 (which I haven't played yet), Odin Sphere (Technically not a RPG), TWEWY (Not really an RPG), have enjoyable stories that aren't totally the usual storyline.



On a side note, Code Geass can FUCK OFF! Predictably convoluted plot, use of amnesia, throwaway fiiler episodes that are worthless, inconsistencies in mood that shoots from happy to EMO in a split second. Unlikable generic characters, stereotypes, and blatant Pizza Hut product placements!

Its sad that the show won awards in Japan and is critically acclaimed by many venues. This is one of the reasons why most anime/JRPG storylines cannot evolve into something special. The people involved in it celebrate mediocre daytime drama plots!

Ahem... Sorry about that rant at the end...
king3vbo's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/23/2008 16:16
king3vbo
Im king3vbo, and I approve this message.

Great writeup Naia, I love jRPGs, but the inherit flaws in them are something that should be addressed.
naia-the-gamer's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/23/2008 16:18
naia-the-gamer
@seltzermx:

I myself haven't played LO, and I've wanted to. It's definitely on my list of JRPG's to play and from what I've heard (including your points) it sounds like I'll really like it. I wish I had the chance to get it sooner but a) I haven't had the time and b) I haven't had the money.

Being a JRPG lover and an adult with work/life responsibilities don't mix well.
seltzermx's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/23/2008 16:20
seltzermx
@animateria: I can see your point about Code Geass. I'm ashamed to admit I watch it religiously, but then again they struck a personal chord with me.

I'm a sucker for shows like Lost and Battlestar Galactica which deal with conspiracies and layers of secrecy which are slowly revealed. And these shows turn even more awesome (at least for me) when they involve centuries old conspiracies and stuff like that. (The ages of C.C. and V.V. in Geass)

I know it might be a predictable end and all that, but they'res always the hope that they'll put some unexpected twist in there which will make it worthwhile.

Anyways, that's my two cents.

What shows do you enjoy?
Dexter345's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/23/2008 16:25
Dexter345
If there were a JRPG without any of those clichés, I don't know if it would even technically be a JRPG any more.
seltzermx's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/23/2008 16:35
seltzermx
@Naia: Tell me about it. I've always loved FFIV and a few others, but I didn't really get into JRPGs til my 3rd year in college, and now that I'm out, its tough trying to play them all. And the problem is exacerbated by the huge backlog of amazing JRPGs made before I got into them. I have a shelf full of the old Shin Megami games just waiting to be played. But with most JRPGs clocking at over 60-70 hours (minimum), it makes it tough when I only have 4-5 hours everyday after work in which to squeeze gaming/anime/regular tv/movies/social life.

We need a work holiday called JRPG month or something where we can play catch up. :)

@Dexter: but then again, what about introducing new elements into JRPGs. The current clichés became clichés over time. There was a time when those concepts were new and innovative. I'm sure they can pull something new out of their hats, which will probably become clichés in like 5-10 years. But at least it'll be new now.
animateria's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/23/2008 16:52
animateria
@seltzermx

Wait... am I supposed to reply here?

Uh, something recent... Denno Coil was a great show, though its main characters are elementary kids, making it light hearted for the most part. There are genuinely (emotionally) moving episodes, as well as a interesting conspiracy plot.

I actually love conspiracy plots and such, considering that I enjoyed SE Lain, GITS SAC, and B-quality production but the great story of Boogiepop Phantom.

CG missed the mark by a long shot for me, I enjoyed the first couple episodes but... it got old fast. It felt like a clone of Death Note horribly gone wrong.

Anyways... Looking at the trend of anime. A nutty storyplot like Zetsubou Sensei would be popular yet refreshing for a JRPG. Similar example for a game would be Disgaea, if it can do it so can other JRPGs. Instead of focusing on too much drama, a light-hearted yet over-the-top plot line would be nice change of pace.

Mechanic-wise... TWEWY really changed the pace, FFXII was a interesting twist on turn-based commands, Crisis Core made it more action oriented, (according to reviews) P3FES turn-base is actually fun. LO is traditional but good... I think JRPGs aren't particularly doing bad in this area.

Uh... I just convinced myself to buy P3:FES... I suddenly need it now.
seltzermx's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/23/2008 17:33
seltzermx
@animateria: haha here's fine I guess; get some discussion going.

I've heard great things about Lain and GITS, but I haven't seen them. They're on my to do list (damn thing gets longer every day).

And I can definetely see the Death Note similarities, especially the superpower and megalomania elements.

I have yet to see Zetsubo Sensei or Disgaea, so I can't comment on that, but I could definetely see myself getting into a ligh-hearted JRPG.

Haven't tried TWEWY (waiting for the FFIV release to get a DS), but I've heard great things; I did particulary enjoy the FFXII mechanic, it was great for those backtracking/leveling moments when you're strong enough to beat everyone and don't really want to manually fight every single enemy on-screen.

I recently started FES, and am about 15 hours in. I like the combat, but I guess I don't know if the Social Link aspect is doing it for me. I like it in terms of the Persona Combining, but I feel there's too many possible links which require tooo much time to level up. I guess I don't HAVE to do every single one, but I always fell you're missing out in an RPG if you don't do each and every single little sub-quest in it. For example, I don't consider myself an achievement whore, but for some reason I just feel the need to get all Skills with everyone in LO (just down to the last 2 items that I'm missing)(Damn Pipot seeds.)
DamnYouKrycek's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/23/2008 17:36
DamnYouKrycek
Can anyone tell me what game that first image comes from! That looks F'n sick!
Scary Womanizing Pig Mask's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/23/2008 17:46
Scary Womanizing Pig Mask
What game is that screen from? I got to check what ever it is out!

Also, glad to see you mentioned the Mother sereis way of handling random battles. It's quite satisfying to return back to an early area, and see the enemies flee in fear from you :)
Hamsizzla's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/23/2008 17:47
Hamsizzla
if you take these things away though you aren't left with a JRPG anymore..when I play a JRPG i expect all of these things. If you take them out you're left with an RPG :(
F Whipple's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/23/2008 17:51
F Whipple
Yeah I loved how in Earthbound when you were much more powerful than the enemy you could simply walk into them to defeat them, getting exp and all. But great write up, I love JRPG's and turn-based battles but it's the cliches that get to me.
Gangles's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/23/2008 18:06
Gangles
"with the use of Marcos"

Polos! ;)
BlindsideDork's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/23/2008 18:20
BlindsideDork
JRPGs are RPGs....run around and shoot everything RPGs are FPS/3rdPS!

Hai! FF7 sucked.
Superfluous Moniker's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/23/2008 18:48
Superfluous Moniker
"Keep the original Japanese voice acting or no voice acting at all."

YES YES YES YES YES.
I say this every time I play anything.
taumpytears's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/23/2008 18:54
taumpytears
PORQUE??????
AlucardX24's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/23/2008 19:46
AlucardX24
JRPGs just need more combat innovation. The turn based stuff is classic, and it can stay in some games, but it needs to go in others. The Tales games are good for this, and so was FF12.
Fading Star's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/23/2008 20:06
Fading Star
Excellent write-up, Naia.
SyntaxError's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/23/2008 20:48
SyntaxError
@seltzermx:

You don't have to do all of them, as you said. After you beat the game, you can go back to a New Game+, with your persona compendium retained. While your social links go back to zero, you can fuse the ultimate personas for the ones you maxed out during your previous playthrough. Or maybe you want to get everything to max level on the first try? I think I saw a guide at gamefaqs for that one.

As for some of the anime you guys mentioned, I haven't seen Lain, so no comment on that. On both GITS:SACs, as with all other Ghost in the Shells, there is a deeper meaning to what is going on. I can't bring myself to understand those deepr meanings, but you can enjoy it for being a cop show.
AKK's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/23/2008 21:18
AKK
I hate RPGs for all of the reasons you stated above.

However, Persona 3: FES has transcended everything I hate about these games.

For one: the whole "one more" system is amazing, as well as the all out attack, making battles against four enemies winnable in a single turn, which is great for guys like me who are far more used to twitch shooters. Not having to control more than one character also helps significantly.

For two: I can see and avoid my enemies. If they're really strong, they glow red. If they're weak, they have worried things above their head and they scamper away, it's hilarious actually.

For three: While I'm only about 20 hours into the game (and about to read my third "ordeal"), the story seems to be picking up and seems to be something a bit less cliched. Sure, some of the characters look a bit stupid or generic, but they all have personalities, many of which are actually interesting, which rather surprised me.

All in all, you want to change JRPGs? Make every single one of them Persona 3: FES. Problem solved.
BlackSunEmpire's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/23/2008 21:20
BlackSunEmpire
One thing I am glad they removed was the yes/no option after someone asked you a rhetorical question. This was all the way through the shining force series. Was it for 'interactivity'??

Can you please rescue my daughter?? yes/no. No did not advance the storyline, and there was nothing to do unless you talked to the king again and picked yes this time. Or they put you through a loop where they said something like. 'Please will you go rescue my daughter?? yes/no' after you picked no.

If you're going to give me the option know I'm going to pick the one you don't want me to.

Good article, please game companies, rescue JRPG's.
The Timely Howard's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/23/2008 22:15
The Timely Howard
I'll get this out of the way now: I disagree with you completely. I love random battles, I love turn-based combat and I love seeing people be in love.

I'm just wondering where some of your examples came from, actually. Like in the part where you talked about evil empires, you mentioned Saga II. What is that? The only two RPGs I can think of that might fit that would be SaGa Frontier 2 and Digital Devil Saga 2; neither of which having anything to do with evil empires.

The other example I took issue with was Suikoden II being placed in the section about romance and people pairing up. Do you remember Suikoden II? Did you ever even play it? You're not talking about the main character and his sister, are you? You can't be, so are you talking about the main character and Jowy? Because Jowy married somebody else for power; there was no love involved. You're not talking about the main character and Eilie either, because the ending makes it clear that even though she thinks of him from time to time, she continues on with her performance group. Hell, the Suikoden series has actually had nothing to do with any sort of romance throughout the entire series. Characters will never pair up during the course of the game; the only characters who are ever romantically involved were introduced into the game as a couple to begin with (Alex and Hilda, Freed Y and Yoshino, Hix and Tengaar, etc).

Don't get me wrong; I enjoyed the read. I just take issue with a couple of the examples you used (but I'm sure they were mistakes anyway).
Drksan's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/23/2008 23:02
Drksan
I'm confused. Does Phantasy Star count as a game that doesn't have fantasy in the title? Loved Phantasy Star IV anyway.
YARLY's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/23/2008 23:07
YARLY
They just need to make combat in JRPGs dynamic (more action-based, like Secret of Mana or the Tales series) and without random battles (like Chrono Trigger). As long as combat doesn't get repetitive, and as long as they can think of a plot that they haven't used a million times, then they should be fine.
Drksan's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/23/2008 23:18
Drksan
I can't believe you didn't even mention Lunar Silver Star.
TurboSpaz's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/23/2008 23:34
TurboSpaz
Invisible random encounters are what turned me off JRPGs. When you add on top of that the hundreds of 1 health point plant monsters you have to wade past to get from one side of the map to the other, I'm off playing something else. It's probably why I loved Chrono Trigger so much; the characters actually had eyes.
epoch's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/23/2008 23:40
epoch
I'd like to see more modern era rpgs
naia-the-gamer's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/24/2008 00:20
naia-the-gamer
@AKK I haven't played Persona 3 FES, but I'm glad to hear that problem has been solved. I wouldn't say they need to be drastically changed, but mostly looking for tweeks to keep the genre fresh.

@The Timely Howard:
SaGa2 was the Japanese name for Final Fantasy Legend II for the gameboys and the example I was referring to was the world where Venus lives (can't remember the name) The world she rules over has beautiful buildings and beautiful people because she only loves beautiful people. It all seems well and good until you find out people that have even the slightest imperfections get exiled to the outskirts of town where the "dirty" people live. You discover one of the NPC's in the town is upset because her boyfriend had an accident which made him "imperfect" and he's expelled, thus discovering the "corruption" in the beautiful town. She is set to marry someone else by Venus's decree and you have to stop the wedding. You blow the lid on the whole thing and fight Venus.

In Suikoden II I was referring to Nanami and Jowy. Despite his behavior which I never understood, I always thought there was a thing between the two. Maybe I read too much into it, and I thought that was part of why Nanami's fate was so sad among other reasons.
CryingTheAnnualKingo's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/24/2008 00:30
CryingTheAnnualKingo
FF12 solved most of the problems you mention, especially combat, and yet you make no reference to it.
The Timely Howard's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/24/2008 00:40
The Timely Howard
Gotcha on that first one; the only Final Fantasy Legend I played was the third one, which I thought was absolutely ridiculous. I'll be honest with you though: I was kind of hoping you were talking about SaGa Frontier 2. What I wouldn't give just to talk with someone-- anyone-- about how great Gustave XIII was.

Suikoden II is still fresh in my mind (I grabbed my copy of the shelf last weekend and just replayed through it; I finished the day before yesterday), but I can understand that some things might be muddled if you haven't played through it recently or were just straight-up confused by the God-awful translation the game was subjected to. To Nanami, Jowy was just as much a brother as the hero. As far as she was concerned, Jowy might as well have been adopted by Genkaku along with the hero and herself. In case you were wondering, though, Jowy's behaviour was largely dictated by the rune he carried. The most pervasive theme in the Suikoden series has been overcoming the fate that's been placed upon you by a true rune. The world of Suikoden was born through Jowy and the hero's runes clashing with each other, and that's what the rune's will demands that they continue to do. Jowy was weaker than the Black Sword Rune, so he would create situations where he would be able to fight against (and conquer) the hero and his Bright Shield Rune. The hero, however, was stronger than the Bright Shield Rune and was constantly trying to reconcile with Jowy in order to end the war (and the conflict between their runes, which Jowy just couldn't have). This is shown best at the very end of the game (even after the final boss in L'Renouille), where in the final duel between yourself and Jowy the true ending can only be earned by refusing to fight him (by defending every turn). Nanami's fate isn't sad in the true ending, by the way. What happens at Rockaxe doesn't do her in.
animateria's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/24/2008 00:57
animateria
I just want a Seikendensetsu 3 port to the DS...

And Chrono Trigger!

Those two are shining examples JRPG brilliance to this day.
naia-the-gamer's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/24/2008 00:58
naia-the-gamer
I played the demo of FFXII and I felt the combat went too much the other way. Sure battles were streamlined, but I could only control one character. I'm suggesting things be more efficient but not by sacrificing control of all my characters. If I wanted that I would just play an action RPG and not the half-assed thing FFXII tried to do. I thought that was terrible.

I really wished more games used what Phantasy Star IV did, because I knew exactly which moves my characters did, but without wasting the time going through menus and clicking. Keep turn based battles but make them faster. It's still the old formula but in a better way. Wouldn't that make everyone happy (generally)?

Maybe I'm being an old fart and I'm harder to please, but I just want to see some variety and ways that I can cut down on how much time I have to spend playing JRPG's. I'm not saying out-right get rid of the things I suggested, but make them less predictable.
Tet's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/24/2008 01:01
Tet
I'll bite, what was so original about Bioshock's characters? Environment - yes, Atlas Shrugged dystopia - yes, lab built amnesiac super soldier who gets betrayed by the helpful older guide - um....
RJG's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/24/2008 03:23
RJG
FTA: "Keep the original Japanese voice acting or have none at all."

I'm sorry, but that's stupid. Not everyone wants to hear the shrieking high pitched Japanese school girl voice every woman has. Not everyone wants to read subtitles every time they play a game. Believe it or not, there are plenty of decent English speaking voice actors who can do fine. Metal Gear Solid, as much as I dislike the gameplay, have some great voice actors. In fact, David Hayter was so good Kojima had him do the role for the Japanese version of MGS2 as well.
SPIDER PIG's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/24/2008 06:00
SPIDER PIG
Dude you can control every character in FF12.
You just have press right or left during the battle.
It does take away a lot of the things you site as problems.

I like JRPG's the way they are, but I will kinda side with you on random encounters, toward the end of FF's they start to wear on you.
Oh and don't get Persona 3. Its story seems to be calendar based, and you cant move the story ahead until certain days. Boy is that frustrating.

anyway, nice article man
AKK's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/24/2008 08:57
AKK
Anyone who says Persona 3 is bad has A) never played it or B) is stupid. Clearly, from the fact that you're unsure as to how the story progresses, it appears you have not played and know pretty much nothing about the game.

The story is calender-based, and it could take all of about 20 minutes to go from one boss to the next if you decided not to spend any time building relationships or level grinding.

However, building relationships is fun. Hell, the level grinding is fun (something I would never say about any other game), and so it takes me upwards of 10 hours to get from one full moon to the next. It's how you want to play it. If you want to blast through it (and get raped by the bosses) that's up to you. If you want to enjoy Tartarus and build your social links and do all that stuff, you can.

Don't talk about games you clearly know nothing about.
Aertyr's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/24/2008 08:57
Aertyr
We need more Patrick Stewart voice acting. Ready? Go!
MechaMonkey's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/24/2008 10:59
MechaMonkey
What I took away from this is that gaming needs more lesbians.
Eschatos's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/24/2008 11:03
Eschatos
Fuck random encounters. They're what stop me from finishing most JRPGs I play.
desafinado's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/24/2008 12:26
desafinado
Problem with traditional JRPGS (like dragon quest xiii) is that they're barely even GAMES. Meaning that they barely have what is essential to a videogame, and that's GAMEPLAY. And to a gamer that's been playing them for 10 years, that's boring.
prev next 50 comments

Comment with Facebook





Click connect and comment instantly!

Comment with Dtoid





New? SIGN UP - it takes 5 seconds

Comments policy

Destructoid is an open discussion community. You don't need to "audition" to post a comment - just speak your mind. We respect differing opinions on the site, so have at it. Be smart, funny, insightful, clueless, or cute -- but back it up with substance. Keep your cool, keep it fun. We only ask that you act respectfully and above all: don't be a troll and ruin it for everyone else. Don't bring down gamers or we'll, you know, gently shoot you in the face and stuff you into a flaming mailbox. Each comment is your opportuntity to make this community awesomer. Is that even a word?

Avoiding the banhammer only requires common sense: spamming, trolling, racism, NSFW stuff, and other forms of sucking will not be tolerated. If anyone is griefing please report abuse. Be good. Don't suck!

 
New on Destructoid.TV play all videos

Loading
Loading Destructoid Videos


    Win this!
    Dive in! meetup+play for a chance to win a PC

    Dtoid Twitter    Got news?   tips@destructoid.com

    Reviews & Previews
    Echoes review
    Assassin's Creed 2 review
    Crossfire Remote Pistol review
    Resident Evil: The Darkside Chronicles review
    Left 4 Dead 2 review
    more reviews
    Driver
    Avatar
    GT Racing Motor Academy
    Bad Company 2 beta dishes out meaningful experiences
    Legend of Zelda Spirit Tracks
    more previews


    - The Dtoid Army is 51184 strong -

    Showing Cblogs with 3+ faps   show all

    Call for entries: do the wrong thing

    New to Dtoid? Read the survival guide




     Originals
    Joseph Leray: Revisited: Gears of War 2, Pinocchio, and masculinity





















    More Destructoid Originals




     Popular now more
    Assassins CreedReview: Assassin's Creed 2
    591 comments + 41542 views
    Destructoid OriginalWhy No More Heroes HD could mean a Wii total victory
    152 comments + 30508 views
    FAILGirl smashes boyfriend's Xbox 360, films it
    160 comments + 16924 views
    BattlefieldBad Company 2 beta dishes out meaningful experiences
    43 comments + 16114 views
    Black FridayBlack Friday: Walmart going nuts with game sales
    31 comments + 16048 views
    Amazon.comBlack Friday: Amazon dropping deals all week long
    16 comments + 15004 views
    Amazon.comAmazon teases its Black Friday sales line-up
    18 comments + 14836 views
    Destructoid OriginalThe tragic history of the videogame turkey
    51 comments + 13276 views
    CapcomHot new SSFIV trailer shows Guy, Cody and Adon in action
    54 comments + 13222 views
    Call of DutyModern Warfare 2 DLC still planned for spring 2010
    27 comments + 12568 views


    Team Destructoid   tips@destructoid.com
    Nick Chester
    Editor-in-Chief
    Niero
    Founder, publisher
    Jim Sterling
    Reviews Editor
    Hamza Aziz
    Community Manager
    Dale North
    News Editor
    Rey Gutierrez
    Video editor & director
    Anthony Burch
    Features Editor
    Colette Bennett
    Tom Fronczak Brad Nicholson
    Ashley Davis Ben Perlee
    Conrad
    Zimmerman
    Chad Concelmo
    Jonathan Holmes Jonathan Ross
    Brad Rice Jordan Devore
    Will Maddock Matthew Razak
    Dyson Joseph Leray
    Topher Cantler Samit Sarkar
         
      Dexter
    Adam Dork
    Daniel Lingen
    Hollie Bennett
    Joe Burling
    Mikey
    Stella Wong

    Josh Tolentino




     

     
      get involved

    register or login
    post a blog
    post a forum
    enter a contest
    contribute a news tip
    suggest a feature
    be a guest editor
    support

    new member's guide
    login assistance
    tech support
    report abuse
    email our editors
    read our dev blog
    nuclear crisis?
    keep in touch

    RSS feed
    Twitter
    Facebook
    Myspace
    Flickr
    Game nights
    Meetup+play online
    seriously

    about Destructoid
    advertising
    terms of use
    privacy policy
    jobs at MM
    buy our crap
    our network

    Tomopop
    Japanator
    Despingation?




    Destructoid is an independently-run publication forged by our love of video games and the gaming community's need of accountable enthusiast press
    living the dream since March 16, 2006