I'm not sure if I'm going to make it guys. The Easter Bunny just got me good, and I'm fading. So I want to get this important piece of news out before I go. id CEO Todd Hollenshead does not see the justification for third parties to put out games on the Wii. It's not that he doesn't like the system, he just doesn't think it has shown anyone much of a reason to develop for it outside of Nintendo, despite the system's massive install base.
In a recent interview with Gamespot UK Hollenshead discussed Rage and why he isn't worried about companies taking their development time away from AAA games and putting them into Wii party games. "I'm not really worried about that, because if you look at the data, the Wii is Nintendo -- and then everybody else. And then among everybody else, it's licensed properties -- and then stuff that people lose money on. So, for a really original, game-centric IP, if you're a third-party developer, I would say, "Show me what makes such a compelling case for the Wii." I'm not saying that it's not out there, but there hasn't been anything that's been demonstrated to be a really huge success ... if you look at the numbers, independent Wii-centric development is not really justified yet."
I'm not sure if that is entirely true as developers such as Ubisoft, Capcom and Sega have had decent success on the Wii with non-party game titles, but it does show the trepidation that many developers feel about jumping onto a platform whose hardcore game sales are so hit and miss. Clearly Hollenshead doesn't dislike the Wii or what it is doing, but he does have a valid point about how risky it can be to develop for.
All right, once more into the breach, dear friends. If you don't see another post from me it means the Easter Bunny has won and all hope is lost.
Contest:
8:00 PM on 04.12.2009
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I can't speak for whatever raw deal 3rd party publishers get. And to hear these quotes, you'd think Nintendo was taking a 70% cut off of their gross... But if some guys out of nowhere are going through the trouble of pushing the platform to its limits (High Voltage Games and the Conduit), and by that effort alone, are building a massive amount of hype for its product, a well backed AAA player like Blizzard, Id or Bioware could find massive success by delivering on the fundamentals of what makes their games great, aside from shiny graphics and a glut of processing power.
No More Heroes and MadWorld are just the typical style over substance stuff that comes out of Japan with the Wii Controls as a gimmick. Thank goodness Sega decided to put Valkyria Chronicles on the PS3 and not the Wii.
They don't have much room to complain when they expect their lower quality titles to be able to compete against Nintendo's own. Do you really expect much from watered down ports, niche titles, mediocre multi-platform titles and some weak original IPs ? In some cases, even good IPs and certain goood franchise titles unfortunately don't sell well but its a risk you have to take on any platform.
Nintendo did its job as a console manufacture to offer a huge userbase with a broad audience. Third-parties should be able to make good games and market them properly. Nintendo shouldn't have to hold your hand.
Publishers such as EA, Marvelous and Sega already know how to do it.
Live and learn.
A skilled carpenter couldn't hit a head a nail on the head more squarely than that.
The Wii is even worse in this regard.
@Pedro
No you missed his point but I imagine your fanboy goggles would do that, what's he saying is that there's no incentive for other companies because of they try to make something fresh or unique its just bombs, the numbers will confirm this, hell one of the most unique games on the system(Zack and Wiki) sold terribly, more importantly, you wanna know what's the most popular Capcom on the Wii?
RE4 with about half a million copies meaning it sold less on the Wii than the cube and PS2.
Meanwhile someone pushes out Carnival games or some rip-off of the latest waggle collection Nintendo pushed out and it sells by the billions.
Just look at the Fatal Frame debacle, would they wanna bring it here? Its not gonna sell at all, the hardcore Wii fanatics are the ones that talk the loudest but they are also in the minority.
Doesn't matter that the Wii is so popular, what sells is crap that most companies can make easily.
But like Pedro, John B, Megastryke and others that you tend to call 'fanboys' i think i fit in well in that category too. But Hiltz also makes a very good point, 3rd party games on the wii are not ground-breaking, neither are the ones on the other consoles for that matter, it just doesnt make sense to me if FPS/3rd Peron shooter games play way better on a wii (IMO), that publishers continue to boast on graphical prowess and technological advancement alone, ignoring a wii fanbase that could grow if addressed properly, including yourself, instead of selling their systems to more 'soccer moms' or 'midwives' as everyone calls them here.
The lack of 3rd party support can only be transcribed as lazy business models that lacks risk-taking and marketing. If you think about it they are selling casual trash on the wii and selling you equally rubbish 'hardcore' games that are in line with your taste and rarely are there any PS2 quality games coming out for any of the systems (again i know there are a few gems here and there on all systems).
The point is, if developers stop thinking of the wii as a toy, keep waggle to a minimal, and work more on gameplay and originality, i believe that more hardcore gamers with dust-collecting wii's would truly enjoy that experience more than what they are having now on you're xbox/ps. ID software's Hollenshead does not know what he is talking about, and i would tell him this 'show me a compelling case for 3rd party support on the wii first' (the only game that failed even though it was brilliant is Z&W, but again, no marketing...)
sorry for the long ass reply, also just woke up, so i hope i made sense
You're talking about 1st person/3rd person shooters and talking about innovation.
It's a bloody 3rd person/1st person shooter!!! What do you expect. Wii Motion+ is not going to change the fundamentals of an FPS.
The success of FPSs on Dual-Analog consoles proves that controls do not solely define FPSs/TPSs.
If companies wanted to take risks with FPSs/TPSs, they'd go PC which have mice which blow the Wiimote away.
There's nothing innovative about Super Mario Galaxy just good game design.
There's nothing innovative about the Conduit, just good controls.
Evolution comes in small steps, not huge leaps.
Basically, developers don't want to go back to developing on PS2-era hardware just to shoehorn controls onto a TV remote.
I respectfully disagree, and while i do not want to prolong this console/pc war in the comments section and am more than willing to debate it in private (can we do that here in destructoid???), i would just like to make a few points.
nothing innovative, just good design in mario galaxy, so platforming on gravitating planets is not innovative?
Deadly creatures - using the wii remote and nunchuk as pincers and slash for stinger fatalities only good controls?
Conduit...ok i give you that one as i cannot defend any FPS as i do not really like them and have not played one using a mouse, so anything i say will be ignorance on my part. (except metroid - the nintendo fanboy in me, but enjoy the morphing ball puzzles and scanning a lot more than the actual bizz bizz kapaw)
So innovation for comes only when graphics become real enabling you to fully immerse yourself in the character, PS3/Xbox360 quality and not PS2..or have i misunderstood you?
LAST AND IMPORTANT POINT - can't i just enjoy playing the casual bullshit with my kids and also have my one player hardcore titles? or does that make me a 'soccer mom'...some of the best times i spent with my parents other than traveling together, were stuck in front of a TV playing Duck Hunt and watching Tom & Jerry, i think this still counts for something at my age and in my context.
You just can't have fun with the damn game? You gotta be all groundbreaking with it?
@lubcyzk: Capcom went back to 8-bit for it's FANS, and you're saying developers don't want to go back to PS2-era developing because it's not next gen?
EA did.
They're making money.
If you give the Wii any credit or praise at all, even a fraction of a good comment, you are quickly labeled a Nintendo fanboy, but oddly enough, you can do the same for the Nintendo DS and you are a smart person.
Any game that involves you waving the controller around is considered to be using the controller as a gimmick, but how would you make a game that isn't a gimmick? The touch-screen devices are a gimmick until everything started having touch-screens. Motion controls are a gimmick, until every device starts to include it in their production. Music games are a gimmick until they start to sell millions. I get the impression that its only a gimmick when it doesn't conform to everyone's idea what something should be like.
Todd says they don't think they can make a successful game on the Wii. You know, he's probably right. They can't make a successful game on the Wii,...or PS3, or Xbox 360. Games on the Wii that you want to sell won't ever achieve that status unless the market for the console shifts back in the other direction. Its skewed based on initial software on launch. It keeps heading in one direction more and more, and software developers trying to make games that aren't just a collection of mini-games can't do so because the consumer base isn't there.
It could partially be Nintendo's fault since their design lends itself to specific gameplay concepts and mechanics, but the rest of the fault lies on what software applications have been developed for it. You can't expect a certain consumer base to pick up a console littered with games that the consumer doesn't want. It just doesn't happen. So the consumer base that did buy into the Wii, were the ones that enjoyed those simple arcade games that didn't require invested time. The people will mostly not ever want to play games like No More Heroes or MadWorld.
I can assure Todd though that, I don't want to play his little Rage game either. I doubt I'll buy one of their little id games to play on my PS3.
@lubczyk Pwned on the Valkyrie Chronicles comparison.
Pretty jaded much?
Where does all this negativity against the Wii stem from? You could either choose to play its games or not.
Do you even own one or have you even played one outside of the realm of in store kiosks?
This Hardcore/Casual BS you spew is getting old and the excuses you use to base these facts are stale as well.Traditional games are getting stale and stangnant, much like your comments and the Wii might seem like a threat to your gaming way of life or lackthereof.
This HD console loyalist BS has got to stop and I'll be the first to put wannabe gamers like yourself Lubczyk in check.Deuces!
I am neither hardcore nor casual.I'm a gamer and I own a Wii.
My handhelds have seen more playtime in the last few years because developers have to focus more on compelling gameplay than on graphics, and forcing them to all go hand-in-hand, rather than graphics overshadowing the gameplay or story. Monster Hunter didn't even have a plot. All it had going for it was unique, yet retro gameplay and a unique visual style and setting.
The Wii represents a great opportunity for up-and-coming and lesser known-yet-eager game developers to step up to the plate and try to do things differently. And they have been, especially since Sega has been outsourcing to just such developers, and so far it's been awesome. And now Konami is apparently doing that with Silent Hill, and that looks like it could have the potential to be the "out of left field" awesome game of this year.
Ugh, I'm done now, just irritates me that the game developers that usually lambaste the Wii when they should realize that nothing like it has ever seriously been around before. But that's okay, I can see why they usually have to focus on the graphical quality of FPSs because beyond that they're all the same anyway.
Don't these people have any important to say about their own projects.I guess not considering the fact that they are has-been's in the industry and their building hype for a IP which no one cares about./end rant
And if you didn't hear anything about id's projects there's only yourself to blame for that.
<gets up from chair> Hi! I'm Jim!
I would like to say that each side has valid points and to be honest, I didnt think of this until now,but as a developer in search of a career at the moment and seeing a majority of the companies either crumbling or getting absorbed, the Wii does provide the financial appeal to sustain companies through these very interesting economic times. So I would say that as long as there is a positive attitude from developers to consumers, then we all win.
Of course the con would be that this brings us back to the beginning of games again. Much like the days of 8-bit we're back into an industry with large players doing what they can to survive and as a result they at least get to practice thier trades.
One thing I think id forget to mention was the advantage of wiiware, live, and psn network where development is much more cost effective. Its a great proving ground of sorts and with the right ATTITUDE and commitment you can develop something everyone will love and you might even be able to push to the next level too.
So all in all, those are my 2 cents for the moment.
Thanks for your time
Jim Boyd
@DemonEyes - you are right, online playability and graphics are not the wii's strong points, but with developers like high voltage taking a risk, there is also a possibility that what is broken about the wii could be improved, Alot. We have just have to wait and see. But i find you're point very sensible, ID software could be doing themselves a favor by focusing on the ps3/360.