[It's time for another Monthly Musing -- the monthly community blog theme that provides readers with a chance to get their articles and discussions printed on the frontpage. -- CTZ]
That's right, undies and a knife! Why should that guy that has played FPS games forever and seems to have the time to play 24/7 be running around with better gear, better guns, better grenades and have the ability to call in dog attacks as a "special" bonus for killing me ten times without dying so he can laugh his ass off while I become dog meat once again? He should be running around in undies and a knife to kill n00bs.
I mean isn't this guy GOOD? If he's so damn good, why doesn't he want a challenge. As people progress up the ranks, as they get to know the maps and strategies, they should get less stuff. Make them choose a gun to throw away and armour to dump. And the very best 1% in the game, those guys or gals at the very top of the leaderboards -- yeah, they're the one's running around in undies and a knife! If they start dropping down in the leaderboards again, give them back some stuff, maybe a gun or some light armor. I hope they feel bad about it too. I mean wouldn't you want to be that awesome avatar in the undies with a knife, right?
In Killzone 2, if you play often enough, you not only rank up and unlock lots of options, but you also unlock permanent point bonuses. You can play the exact same game as another player, but if you have unlocked the headfetish, corpse counter and other badges, you could be getting as much as double points or more for each kill. How does that make sense? Someone who obviously plays the game more, is better at the game and will get more kills anyway is getting extra points for kills? Are gamers so pathetic that they can't just win but the devs have to reward them with bonus points so that they own? What's the sense in that aside from discouraging new players? Undies and a knife ... yeah, that's the answer!
I'm not literally speaking of undies and a knife (though I love the idea), but rather than rewarding the really awesome players with "more", why not have them give them choices that give them "less" as they rank up.
In single-player games, the challenges increase. Why can't it be this way in multiplayer games? The n00b should have access to everything. All the amour, guns, rocket launchers, dog attacks ... hell, nuclear strikes if they're in the game! They can try everything out, see what they like, what they don't. As they go up the leaderboards or gain ranks they lose options/items. Keep the dog attack if that's what you want, then just sneak around using your dog attacks with skill. Just like Killzone and the 1% ribbon, stats can reset once a week and you can drop in rank. You reach the "Undies and a knife" rank and don't play that week, you drop down in the leaderboards and get some of your stuff back. Clan games would also change. They'd actually be recruiting for that n00b that only plays once a week because competitive games having that heavily armored n00b-bait could be an important strategy.
The sad thing is that FPS online gamers don't seem to like to play "fair". If they buy the game on launch, practice and become good, they don't want to be challenged. They want to own n00bs, not be killed by them. Online FPS games are rarely glitch-free and many gamers seem to have no problem using exploits to gain unfair "God-mode" advantages in order to rack up the points and they prefer to point to stats and the almighty KDR to show how good they are. I don't know that an outfit (or lack thereof) would have the same pull as killstreak awards, or benefits like stronger armor (juggernaut), faster reload/fire times, better weapons or even martyrdom where you get a last shot at killing an enemy before dying. Gamers that have ranked up and know the game, seem to feel they "deserve" these advantages. The success of COD4 seems to well illustrate the gamer mentality of "PWNAGE at any cost"!
When I win a game because I'm a higher rank, have more unlocks, better weapons, better armor or get more points for kills, in all honesty, I don't feel like I've "won" the game. It really isn't a fair fight and I take no pleasure in a win of that nature. I guess this is one of the reasons I tend to prefer Warhawk or UT3 over other games. These games have a level playing field where everyone, regardless of rank, is pretty much the same. It's skill, teamwork, and maybe some luck, that wins you the game. However, even in these types of games, if playing with a bunch of friends who just bought the game, I'm quite capable of slaughtering them. Devs respond to these inequities by usually creating the abilities to have servers reserved for lower or higher ranked players but it's no fun playing alone if you rank up fast or buy the game a year after release.
I suck at shooter games. When I buy the game more than a month after release, when I rank up, then take a break from the game and go back to it, when I play other games and don't devote myself to the one game or when I have a life. I sometimes wish I sucked at games a little more when I play a game I'm really good at with a friend who just bought the game. I like to play with my friends but suckage should be more even and fair. Undies and a knife is the answer!
I want to be that awe-inspiring, revered avatar in undies and knife so devs make me that game!
(and Silverdragon, that knife isn't for making you a sandwich!)
Contest:
7:00 PM on 08.18.2009
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DAMNIT!!!
I was terrified to go online for fear of getting spanked by uber-equipped jerks. Same with Rainbow Six: Vegas. Or, hell, any game that subscribes to this sort of design.
Also, personally, if there was a "Destroyer of Worlds" perk that automatically outfitted your player in tighty-whities and equipped them with a Rambo knife, I would be playing Modern Warfare at this exact moment in hopes of unlocking it.
I will admit that my biggest problem with Killzone 2 is the one you described. That game seriously rewards the players who have played longer. It's really an unfair advantage. I prefer games like Halo 3 and UT3 as well, where everyone is on an equal playing field.
Unfortunately I don't think any developer will ever try what you recommend. I just don't think most people will like it. Experienced players like killing noobs, and like having the ability and gear to kill them easier. That will never.change
If they had started everyone out strong (before they know their team roles, the maps, the enemies) and had gradually weakened the abilities (but strengthened the opposition) as you ranked up - the game would have remained challenging and far more interesting. Teamwork would have been essential.
@Naim... but wouldn't there be a certain addiction in getting less stuff? The strategic choices of what to lose?... and even the very visible "rank" of having less?
@suitcoatavenger... I think that this "undies and a knife" format could well add longevity to games. Like yourself I'm often afraid to jump into certain online games with rank perks if I buy the game late, because I know I'll get pwned for a long, long time. It would be nice to just be able to figure out the map or the objectives without constantly respawning. :(
The whole undies motif has me laughing. If this happened you could market a line of cologne/perfume for the top-tier gamer. Black and white ad with avatars in their skivvies.
"Somewhere between madness and genius lies. . . 3L33T."
3L33T, by Calvin Klein.
Granted, perks and add-ons aren't available at start, but the upper tier widgets are earned (and rightly so) by someone who actually has put a little time into the title. With CoD4 and CoD:WaW it takes less than an hour to get a number of perks and loadouts to choose from.
If you can't be competitive with what they give you to start with...I don't think giving a couple perks is going to help matters much.
when my buddies and I play fighting games and lets say we only have one arcade stick and one controller, the winner would be forced to use the controller, giving the losers an edge with the arcade stick. it just makes more sense to me, but you can argue that the person winning can just beat you within an inch of your life then let you win so he gets to keep the arcade stick.
same wtih these other type of games like cod tho. you can argue that some people might be completely torn and annoyed by the fact that the better they do, the "less fun" it becomes. but then one could argue that it just adds to the challenge and tests their skill.
either way i dont think we can make everybody happy, but itd be interesting to see if for like one week, on COD4 for example if they just flipped it upside down and took all the good stuff away from the better players and gave it to the "noobs"
A) it would justify your high-class equipment and rating because everyone would be gunning for you and you'd have to prove it rather than being a point farmer.
and
B) it would level the playing field by letting lower tier players catch up faster, even in game modes dominated by veterans.
...I wonder if I'm the only one who gets that? :P
@jamnontheone... you speak for a lot of people, but it's more than just not knowing the maps... I remember a friend laughing hysterically when I was trying to outrun a grenade he threw my way - I had no idea the game even had sticky grenades! If n00bs had access to everything in the game, at least they would know what existed. Besides, if better players really do only use the starter weapons of the game and the perks are no big deal, then where's the harm in letting n00bs have access to all weapons/perks?
@Wasteland... yeah, TF2 is another of those games where everyone pretty much has equal access because the unlocks don't directly affect their own abilities. COD survival mode definitely sounds like fun to me too!
@Rab... exactly!
@Corak... why do you put time into any game? Again, wouldn't you want to be visually awesome in the game? Running around barechested with one gun... while the n00b is bundled up in layers of heavy armour... wouldn't that be something to aspire to? The rewards I guess are visual superiority... not a silly symbol over your head or a note in the leaderboard - but an outfit that clearly denotes your rank and skill level.
@Kauza... I too prefer the "level playing field" games... but what about the n00b that buys the game a year after release?
@Suitcoatavenger... yeah, points systems based on levels of undress (so to speak) would also be very workable!
@narishma... yeah, I loved that demo but nobody I knew was buying the game so I passed. :(
@puppylicks... hmmm... no idea what Police Quest 3 is... you might be the only person getting the reference! LOL!
@Bulletmagnet... yeah, nice to know that there would be someone else playing the game... and sneaking up on those heavily armoured n00bs in their skivvies for that satisfying knife kill! :)
Hmmm... maybe the answer is a n00b perk... the ability to play dead and be invulnerable! :)
If I invest enough time in a game I want to be better then people just starting out and I've gotta tell you I won't get there on skill alone, I'm not that good.
It would break the concept of "leveling" and remove the carrot on the stick. Following your argument, why doesn't Blizzard give every level 1 player in World of Warcraft all the uber weapons and twink them to level 80?
It really sounds like your trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist for a large percentage of the players.
@puppylicks.... "he might not have been wearing much, but it's amazing where people can hide things. ALWAYS search your prisoner"... OMG! Too funny! (and perfect for this blog! LOL!)
@Qalamari... oh yeah, the "big head" mod!! That mod is available for the PS3 version of UT3! It's hilarious especially when combined with the 3rd person view mod so you can see your head get huge! Yeah, things like that give a slight disadvantage to the better players and is a good example of the type of thing I'm talking about.
@Ali D...yeah, but different tactics in the hand of a good player "can" result in advantage. One could say that all of the KZ classes just offer negative/positives and all are equal. Many players end up using the starter class of medic even when fully ranked up... but the ability to switch to the invisible sniper for even one round can be VERY advantageous if you're manning a turret! (not to mention that n00bs may not even be aware that people can be invisible... or have spot/mark or c4, etc).
@Jamnontheone... yes, FPS games seem to use the same reward system as many RPG's... but then people are pretty much stuck playing with people of their own level. Nowadays many people prefer to play with their friends... who might be all different levels. For example Zippy just bought Warhawk and I've been playing the game for 2 years. Yes, in this game everyone is equal and the only advantage I have is familiarity with the maps and the game... but even if I just had access to the rifle as my only weapon, I'm pretty sure that I would still beat him in a deathmatch (or any other mode). Now if I only had the knife and pistol... for the first few weeks that would likely be a fair match up (and hella fun to knife him in the back!) For some people - having less, having more challenge, having obvious "rank status" in the game - those could be rewards in themselves. The problem I'm trying to solve is to play with my friends... but still have it enjoyable for everyone participating - whether they are new or experienced players. From a dev perspective it might encourage more people to play online.. there are a LOT of people that still won't try online play because they find it intimidating, or if they buy the game late they don't want the rather permanent disadvantage.
Oh and I found that Superhuman mode for Resistance 2's coop really fixed the whole "not working together" problem. That was one good update by Insomniac.
I'd been typing a long story about the Fatman mod for the first Unreal Tournament, but I just noticed Qalamari already mentioned it. It was best of both worlds, since it both offered bragging rights and leveled the playing field. Some people just kept taking screenshots to show off how they big they were, while others just were happy with the easier targets..
And on the subject of MGO(nice MGO pics btw, those your characters? lol) this is actually one reason I still love playing it over other online games. The skill system does offer the feeling of growth as your skill level up as you use them, but gets counterbalanced at the max level because the higher the level of the skill, the more skill slots it takes up, meaning you'll have less variety of skills, and only have a buff in one area of focus(with a few skills as exeptions).
@Quistnix... I do wish more games would allow for PS3 mods like what UT3 did. I loved playing many of the user-created mods and they offered disadvantage options... or the opposite (the Titan mutator that made you bigger and gave you a devestating attack after so many kills). Lots of options.
@Motorobo... it's not really "punishing people for success"... it's giving them a challenge so that they can feel that they are truly winning against some decent odds... and not taking a walk in the park. Alternate modes would do the trick though! (and COD4 did offer prestige mode where you started all over again... but this still didn't help out new players much) Bragging rights is exactly what I'm getting at... doing something difficult and showing a true level of skill.
@Palidi.. LOL! Yeah, the knife is a very satisfying one hit kill in most games... but you still have to get in close to do it! Those aren't my MGO characters... I unfortunately sold the game before they brought in the female avatars (and they have the BEST female avatars... really well done!). I found the movement in the game to be really slow and it felt like I was slugging through mud... so just didn't take to it, though now I kinda wish I'd given it more of a chance. :(
Also, I find it funny that you complain about MGO feeling sluggish, then go and play Killzone 2.
I was bothered by the kill bonuses, particularly the helicopter support. But nothing felt better than dropping someone's helicopter with an RPG, you know? At least it wasn't invincible.
In short, I loved the tiny bit of knife 'n' undies in CoD4--so if someone expanded exponentially on your idea, I'd certainly be down.
Stealth stuff is awesome
Also, from what game is that screenshot?
Many a time you'll see high-ranked players (such as Hound or Foxhound) bail on games the moment someone's got them in a CQC chokehold and are about to be rendered unconcious and subsequently headshot(we often call them "Fauxhounds).
The downside of course is that new players are often outgunned and outskilled in point-accumulating matches of Survival and Tournament, leaving the high rank players to scoop up all the prizes and points. Even worse, most players under level 10 can't even join a team because of their low rank, being kicked by elitist, must-win players.
I personally love joining low-level teams to offer support. And every once in a while I get a nice surprise when a clan gets owned at their own game by a ragtag motley crew such as us.
Finally, it's nice that the gear itself means squat--it's all for show. Color and special items are the only real indications of one' stature--but you take great satisfaction when you headshot that all-decked in red showoff (red being the most expensive gear color). Teabagging is especially encouraged at that point.
FPS's are at their infancy in leveling up. In early rpgs, beast gave the same experience regardless of your skill level. Now they are on a sliding scale. Doesn't it seem like heavily rewarding new players for killing skilled players would serve to balance the game much more quickly (not to mention give some good stories)?
Make it so... who am I talking to?
The other problem is that the character progression mechanic in CoD4 is a carbon copy of those found in RPGs, and part of CoD4's multiplayer addictiveness is successfully tying in the desire to gain experience and get a new perk or new piece of kit that is found in RPGs.
I would love to see this placed in a future game as an optional mode though. There's a lot of thingas I'd like to see in the next MW game, such as a "pistols only" mode and throwing knives.
When I play FPS's split-screen with non-hardcore friends, I usually have to pretend to be worse than I am because I know it's not fun for them to get pwned by me over and over again.
Usually I'll just play using a pistol and run around like an idiot to give them a chance, but that's not in any way satisfying for me, and they obviously know I'm giving them an advantage.
A shooter where I HAVE to use only a pistol and a knife when I reach a certain level, and the trade off is increased agility or something would be ace.
Take away my machine guns but give me a knife and increased sprint speed and suddenly you're playing a different game and your tactics change accordingly.
I really like this idea, let's hope someone imoprtant stumbles on this blog!
Killzone also showed it was possible to reset certain things on a weekly basis (the ribbons), so rank up/down could be done on a weekly basis (though if the tech exists to do it more dynamically that would be great!)
Regarding MGO (the pics are from MGO for those not sure... only game with "undies" that I could find), I wasn't aware that you lose points if a n00b takes you down, the only concern I have with this dynamic is how lower level players are designated. UT3 had a similar ranking system (more points if you kill a higher rank, lowered points if you kill a n00b), but it's difficult to tell someone's rank. The obviousness of armour or lack thereof seems to resolve this issue with very obvious visual cues.
... and yes, that n00b all bundled up in heavy armour with the rocket launcher would be quite obvious and a little funny! :)
LOVE YOU ELSA :D
And yeah ou are completely right. I wish the assholes on Quake Live would have like... weaker ammunition so i would have a chance -___-
I like to feel the kill.
Totally back this idea.