surf dtoid with 
Rising (10+)
People you follow
Cowkaynee Monkeystrudle
8.5% unemployment.Why cant we make iPods and Xbox here?
Because most of these workers make a 1.50 an hour, that would cut into the 1% profits making stuff here.
8.5% unemployment.Why cant we make iPods and Xbox here?
Because most of these workers make a 1.50 an hour, that would cut into the 1% profits making stuff here.
My job has the reverse effect, makes me wanna kill people I work with not myself. Lol I got shit to live for beer, video game, porn ect. Silly chinese people don't hurt yourself. Hurt other people
Whenever I'm working on a PC, and I find a Foxconn labeled part in there, I think to myself "Many Asians died to bring us this heat sink."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn_suicides
This is an ongoing issue. It's insane that the solutions Foxconn has employed to combat the suicide of its workers includes installing safety netting and having them sign no-suicide pledges. Little has been done to actually remedy the problem.
This is an ongoing issue. It's insane that the solutions Foxconn has employed to combat the suicide of its workers includes installing safety netting and having them sign no-suicide pledges. Little has been done to actually remedy the problem.
Hear about foxcon from This American Life last sunday. Apparently suicides off their buildings happen regularly, but never in groups like this
@Stephen Beirne
Yeah I seem to recall reading about the no-suicide pledges and all I could think was .... seriously if I was to the point where I was going to commit suicide. The fact that I signed a pledge saying I double pinky swear not to, isn't going to be even a remote deterrent.
Its really sad that the only real bargaining chip they have is the threat of suicide on mass. Even then probably only because of the negative PR it shines on Foxconn and their customers.
Yeah I seem to recall reading about the no-suicide pledges and all I could think was .... seriously if I was to the point where I was going to commit suicide. The fact that I signed a pledge saying I double pinky swear not to, isn't going to be even a remote deterrent.
Its really sad that the only real bargaining chip they have is the threat of suicide on mass. Even then probably only because of the negative PR it shines on Foxconn and their customers.
For one thing, I call bullshit on Microsoft's statements. If that were the case then Foxxcon wouldn't be in the dictionary next to the word "Suicide". And not just Microsoft, when the suicides were in full swing, a lot of companies said about the same thing, yet nothing really changed.
Second: "Let this serve as a reminder that we as consumers should be more proactive in determining where products come from, no matter how unpleasant the findings may be."
Statement feels very naive and fluffy. We don't have much of a say in any thing: We don't get to call when we get a game here, all on a companies whim (Read: Operation Rainfall). We don't really get that much say in our democracy (Read: SOPA, which works against people, gets considered at all). We also don't get much of a say about where our products get made, all because of the all mighty dollar, and the companies who want to make more of it.
It also doesn't help that people won't band together when they do feel like something is wrong and get turned away from doing anything by people who don't give a shit themselves. Things happen all the time in this industry that become normal just because people shrug at other people and call them whiny bitches because they care, or see, that the future would be complete crap if these things get to happen all the time -this, even about human lives, isn't really all that different.
Second: "Let this serve as a reminder that we as consumers should be more proactive in determining where products come from, no matter how unpleasant the findings may be."
Statement feels very naive and fluffy. We don't have much of a say in any thing: We don't get to call when we get a game here, all on a companies whim (Read: Operation Rainfall). We don't really get that much say in our democracy (Read: SOPA, which works against people, gets considered at all). We also don't get much of a say about where our products get made, all because of the all mighty dollar, and the companies who want to make more of it.
It also doesn't help that people won't band together when they do feel like something is wrong and get turned away from doing anything by people who don't give a shit themselves. Things happen all the time in this industry that become normal just because people shrug at other people and call them whiny bitches because they care, or see, that the future would be complete crap if these things get to happen all the time -this, even about human lives, isn't really all that different.
The thing is even if companies pulled out of China and we boycotted the products for human rights abuses, China's government would continue allowing such abuses to take place.
Ultimately the Chinese government would have to change and there's very, very little other nations can do about that.
Ultimately the Chinese government would have to change and there's very, very little other nations can do about that.
@BoomingEchoes: The fact that we don't get any say in, let's say, whether companies use Foxconn and/or similar manufacturers is due largely to the fact that we, as gamers, aren't organized enough. If (and yes, this is probably the biggest 'if' in the world) we as gamers made a threat, and then stuck to said threat, to not purchase the next generation of a video game console that used Foxconn-made components, we'd see some results. If, say, Microsoft noticed that the sales of the Xbox 720 were down 30-50%, and the reason was a very well-publicized boycott, they'd take a good, hard look at whether their savings using certain vendors were worth it.
Some may wish to argue that this level of organization is extremely unlikely or even impossible, and that's an understandable, if cynical, argument. But to say "We don't have much of a say in anything" simply isn't true. We are Microsoft, Apple, et al.'s consumers. We won't, don't, or maybe even can't act on it, but we actually have the ultimate power over them. They can do whatever they want when they're making their product, but we can always just not buy it.
If the day ever comes when we as a demographic act on our convictions, you better believe we'll start seeing results.
Some may wish to argue that this level of organization is extremely unlikely or even impossible, and that's an understandable, if cynical, argument. But to say "We don't have much of a say in anything" simply isn't true. We are Microsoft, Apple, et al.'s consumers. We won't, don't, or maybe even can't act on it, but we actually have the ultimate power over them. They can do whatever they want when they're making their product, but we can always just not buy it.
If the day ever comes when we as a demographic act on our convictions, you better believe we'll start seeing results.
LOL at MicroSoft's statement.
If they indeed had "a stringent Vendor Code of Conduct", Foxconn would have been eliminated from their list long ago because this is only the latest depressing news about working conditions at that company.
The image of 300 people not just gathered in one spot, but also willing to kill themselves en masse is incredibly disturbing to me.
If they indeed had "a stringent Vendor Code of Conduct", Foxconn would have been eliminated from their list long ago because this is only the latest depressing news about working conditions at that company.
The image of 300 people not just gathered in one spot, but also willing to kill themselves en masse is incredibly disturbing to me.
@Mrdraven: Oh, certainly. Microsoft is going to give it a few days to a week, say that they've gotten assurances from Foxconn that they're going to take steps to resolve the issue in a satisfactory manner. That'll be the last you hear from Microsoft about it until the next time Foxconn is in the news.
If my saying that people should research the products they buy for the sake of being an informed member of society is fluffy and naive, progress will never be made.
If everyone deflects personal responsibility and won't even take this first step, of course we aren't going to band together on a meaningful level. Raising awareness is the first of many steps.
If everyone deflects personal responsibility and won't even take this first step, of course we aren't going to band together on a meaningful level. Raising awareness is the first of many steps.
Not giving them the benefit of the doubt is something we can all do. Not giving them our dough is another.
Stuff like this and SOPA have made me very aware of the products I buy and am interested in. I've been spending a lot more of my freetime researching stuff I had just taken for granted lately.
But when it comes down to it, its our entire system that's flawed, not just big companies. To compete and stay alive, everyone have to do so in the marketplace. As long as the system is going strong, the working classes will always be screwed over.
But when it comes down to it, its our entire system that's flawed, not just big companies. To compete and stay alive, everyone have to do so in the marketplace. As long as the system is going strong, the working classes will always be screwed over.
It's a pretty sticky situation from both sides of the issue. I work for a company that produces processors and memory. Due to the complexity of what we do, our manufacturing options are very limited. There are only a handful of facilities worldwide that can even produce our product, and fewer yet that can reach an acceptable yield.
This is no excuse for Foxconn's management, or their client's acceptance of what was described in the article, but the solution isn't black and white. There are likely few if any options for large scale manufacturing operations.
This is no excuse for Foxconn's management, or their client's acceptance of what was described in the article, but the solution isn't black and white. There are likely few if any options for large scale manufacturing operations.
Let me add my name to the others that are suggesting listening to This American Life's episode for this week. It really made me think about where I get my stuff, and if it's worth it or not...
Let me add my name to the others that are suggesting listening to This American Life's episode for this week. It really made me think about where I get my stuff, and if it's worth it or not...
Now I understand all the recent reports on Microsofts terrible customer service. Their attention has been focussed on ensuring that conditions at Foxcon are in line with their high ethical standards.
Well, its either this or pretty expensive consoles / gadgets.
Since people are crying about a 250$ Vita with awesome hardware in it (so everyone can think for themselve under which conditions the workers producing these have to life) it will only get even worse.
Since people are crying about a 250$ Vita with awesome hardware in it (so everyone can think for themselve under which conditions the workers producing these have to life) it will only get even worse.
To say that these people deserve a living wage would be an understatement, however it would at least double (if not quadruple) the cost of our electronic devices that we so dearly love. I probably wouldn't shell out $500 - $1,000 for a WiiU, but these people need to get paid! This is only one of the hundreds of atrocities happening within China, and the countries that it over-sees. They are about 1-2,000 years behind the West when it comes to human rights.
@Cudgeon It's never as simple as that though.
If only the rich folks atop the tall buildings weren't playing a game to see who can get the most money and screwing over every single other person the planet to do it.
If only the world's goverments weren't in these fellows pockets, maybe then they would do something about it. What a sad world we live in.
If only the rich folks atop the tall buildings weren't playing a game to see who can get the most money and screwing over every single other person the planet to do it.
If only the world's goverments weren't in these fellows pockets, maybe then they would do something about it. What a sad world we live in.
@ Nicholas Patricks
Don't make me laugh. Europe was exactly the same 100 years ago, as china is now.
Besides, it's western companies that produce under such circumstances in the east. It's not the evil china for one, but our evil richpeople.
Don't make me laugh. Europe was exactly the same 100 years ago, as china is now.
Besides, it's western companies that produce under such circumstances in the east. It's not the evil china for one, but our evil richpeople.
I'd be the one guy in china telling everyone "OH WE SHOULD TOTALLY KILL OURSELVES FOR REALS!" and then back out at the last minute, and be the last dude working at the plant. Instant labor grade raise, and job security.
Yeah, as if you need job security for a slave job, free touch.
But funny guys like you sure as hell can go to work there. Have fun, with no weekends, holydays and only enough money to buy food...
But funny guys like you sure as hell can go to work there. Have fun, with no weekends, holydays and only enough money to buy food...
It is unfortunate that companies who sell these products don't budget themselves more proactively to allow for production of these products outside of places like China.
Rather than lower profit margins slightly by producing the product at a higher cost (while attempting to maintain a similar sell price) and making up the lost profits by doing things like cutting their CEO's 1million dollar a year + stock + bonuses salary down to a reasonable level(and that is the LOW end of the CEO spectrum the AVERAGE CEO makes 11.4MILLION per year). Or reducing packaging costs (you ever seen all the extra package and high glossy boxes that iPods come in?) or just simply operating at a lower profit vs cost spread.
The fact is that this could be prevented and jobs in home countries in europe and america could be built if companies weren't as greedy as they are (wealth inequality in 2007 was almost equal to the inequality of 1929)
Rather than lower profit margins slightly by producing the product at a higher cost (while attempting to maintain a similar sell price) and making up the lost profits by doing things like cutting their CEO's 1million dollar a year + stock + bonuses salary down to a reasonable level(and that is the LOW end of the CEO spectrum the AVERAGE CEO makes 11.4MILLION per year). Or reducing packaging costs (you ever seen all the extra package and high glossy boxes that iPods come in?) or just simply operating at a lower profit vs cost spread.
The fact is that this could be prevented and jobs in home countries in europe and america could be built if companies weren't as greedy as they are (wealth inequality in 2007 was almost equal to the inequality of 1929)
"Let this serve as a reminder that we as consumers should be more proactive in determining where products come from, no matter how unpleasant the findings may be."
No...Let this serve as a reminder that it's our own damn fault for demanding that we pay rock bottom prices for products and that we're all entitled pricks who think we need to own a ton of stuff.
No...Let this serve as a reminder that it's our own damn fault for demanding that we pay rock bottom prices for products and that we're all entitled pricks who think we need to own a ton of stuff.
And to the guys about lowering profit margin - the high tech (PCs / Consoles ) Market has very low profit margins already. About 10%. New Product are even often released at a loss per piece.
Cudgeon depends on the product. Many products sell high tech accessories at major markup (memory cards for cameras for instance are much cheaper to produce than they cost.) plus the reason many consoles are sold at a loss to start is that the products aren't sold to distributors at MSRP (manufacturer suggested retail price) but sold to the distributor at wholesale which while electronic whole sale is much closer to MSRP prices it is still MUCH lower. (A company could purchase 50,000units and be looking at saving upwards of 20-25%)
It's a real shame that those Foxconn employees can't benefit in some way from the Xbox Live Gold fee hike on account of not being directly employed by Microsoft, by Xbox Live not being an actual product manufactured anywhere and employees at any corporation not receiving pay increases just because their employers are making a bit more money than usual.
If there would be an extra yearly fee (or just higher prices on every electronic product) to pay to see to it that the people who make all of the nifty tech doodads through their labor not just through their label get a fair cut of it, how many would pay it(not that such a thing should be necessary to begin with)?
If there would be an extra yearly fee (or just higher prices on every electronic product) to pay to see to it that the people who make all of the nifty tech doodads through their labor not just through their label get a fair cut of it, how many would pay it(not that such a thing should be necessary to begin with)?
@Faux Furry: If these sorts of tech products hiked their prices in order to pay their employees a decent wage, it wouldn't matter, because now they have a whole new group they can sell their products to: their own employees! How novel!
See also: Henry Ford.
See also: Henry Ford.
Not a surprise, they don't have much choice either, work for foxconn in a hostile enviroment for hours and hours straight and make a sad amount of money for your family, or be jobless.
:-(
>mfw al lot of products we have right now are being made by companies like these
:-(
>mfw al lot of products we have right now are being made by companies like these
Foxconn, it's like asbestos, but a company!!!
It makes me sick that I rely on them for my entertainment, and I would have to forgo said entertainment if I really wanted to make them sweat. The pathetic part is most of the electronics - if made in America - would cost 5 times more.
I wish there was a simple answer to this, but Chinese business owners demonstrate again and again that they don't care about human rights. There's another French Revolution in the making, except there won't be one Robespierre in a country of 1.2 billion this time.
It makes me sick that I rely on them for my entertainment, and I would have to forgo said entertainment if I really wanted to make them sweat. The pathetic part is most of the electronics - if made in America - would cost 5 times more.
I wish there was a simple answer to this, but Chinese business owners demonstrate again and again that they don't care about human rights. There's another French Revolution in the making, except there won't be one Robespierre in a country of 1.2 billion this time.
If you want these made in America, you're gonna be paying $600 for that XBox 360. (and that's after the price drop from the $900 launch price).
follow
