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How Sony is screwing Player Two on the PlayStation 3 photo

It sounds great in theory, but having a significant other who is also a gamer isn't always as great as you'd think.

Sure, it's helpful that my wife understands my job, my hobby, and my obsession. When work (or pleasure) calls for me to lose seven straight hours in a virtual world, she only complains that she misses me, not that she doesn't understand my "toys." Even when there's a single-player game we're both interested in, we split our time handling the controls, but there's always the argument: Who's going to get the Xbox 360 Achievements or PlayStation 3 Trophies?

It's usually decided with a coin toss, which seems fair enough to the both of us. (OK, I usually let my wife log in because I love her ... and she wears the pants around the house.) But when it comes to cooperative games, we usually don't have to make that choice: We both accumulated achievements and other rewards while playing through games like Halo 3, LEGO Batman: The Videogame, and Rock Band.

But that's only on the Xbox 360, where we can both sign into our Xbox LIVE account simultaneously. When it comes to the PlayStation 3, one of us is always getting screwed.

While Sony offers free PlayStation Network accounts to just about anyone with a pulse, the PlayStation 3 console itself will only allow for one person to be logged in at any given time. This leads to a bit of an unbalance, which became particularly evident a few months back with the release of PixelJunk Eden, one of the earliest cooperative games to support Sony’s answer to Xbox 360 Achievements, PS3 Trophies.

Best experienced with a friend or a loved one, the cooperative play of PixelJunk Eden far exceeds that of playing alone in your basement while munching on Doritos and cracking open cans of carbonated drinks. The game itself allows a second player to join by simply pressing “Start” on the second controller, at which point another Grimp (the game's little silkworm-like creatures that the player controls) drops in. Both players work together in the game's gardens to snag flowers and progress, but only one player -- the player signed into PSN -- grabs the ego-inflating Trophy rewards.

While certainly a bit annoying, it didn't break the game experience; we were playing simply to have fun, after all. But when LittleBigPlanet arrived at our doorstep, we were given hope, if only for a moment. Highly focused on cooperative social play, developer Media Molecule did something unprecedented as far as PS3 titles are concerned -- when a second (or third, or fourth) player logged in, it asks you which PSN account you'd like to select!

By doing so, all info for that player's SackBoy and progress is saved. This is great, but there's a problem -- they're not logged into PSN. Their friends can't view them as being online, they can't send or receive messages, and more importantly, they won't receive Trophies for completing levels and other in-game milestones. In short, player two gets screwed.

It got worse with the release of Insomniac's Resistance 2, which features excellent cooperative and competitive split-screen modes that can be played both online and off. The game's multiplayer modes have a heavy focus on gaining experience points to level up your character, as well as stat tracking, much of which ties in to MyResistance.net, a social site that is linked to your PSN gamercard. Like PixelJunk Eden, Resistance 2 will let a second player enter the game by pressing start on a second controller. But once again, player two gets screwed.

"Your friend [playing split-screen] does not generate XP," said Insomniac's James Stevenson in comments on PlayStation.Blog. "We hope that at a certain point, we'll be able to allow your friend to log into their own PSN account and earn their own XP, but right now that functionality isn't available."

I did some asking around and was told by sources close to PlayStation 3 game development (who asked to remain unnamed) that this isn't an issue with individual pieces of software like Resistance 2 or LittleBigPlanet. The issue of two PSN accounts being logged in that the same time lies with Sony and the PS3's firmware. In fact, our sources tell us that Sony was promising developers this functionality would be implemented by now, and was coming as an update in system software version 2.50. It didn't.

When I contacted Sony on the issue, they refused to comment on "rumors or speculation regarding the feature set of the firmware updates." I was also told that they do allow dual log-ins on the PlayStation Network, but I've found no way to do so on a single PS3 console. (Tapping the PS Button on a second controller brings up the same XrossMediaBar that player one sees, and attempting to log in as second user prompts for a logout of the first.)

As far as the future is concerned, there's no word on when the Balance of Trophy Power will tip towards player two.

"We don't have any announcements regarding the potential for the second player to earn Trophies at this time," a Sony rep told me.

It's too bad. While playing online with your friends and strangers has become commonplace, there are still plenty of players who game side-by-side with their families and buddies, laughing and shouting at each other face-to-face. It seems a bit shortsighted that dual log-in functionality wasn't considered when designing the PS3 and PSN, particularly when Microsoft, their biggest competitor, had included it from day one.

Despite Sony's refusal to comment or commit to including dual-login functionality in their titles, based on what I'm hearing, I have little doubts that we'll see an update to address this oversight sooner rather than later. Until then, my wife and I will keep flipping the coins we find buried in the cushions of our couch ... or simply playing all of our multiplayer games on the Xbox 360.


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55 comments | showing # 1 to 50

munkee's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/05/2008 15:05
munkee
bollocks to player two... buy your own PS3, i already have mine!
Blind assassin's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/05/2008 15:06
Blind assassin
"When it comes to the PlayStation 3, one of us is always getting screwed."

Go on...
ParaParaKing's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/05/2008 15:07
ParaParaKing
Though lack of dual login is regretful, I couldn't care less, because I normally only play with friends without a PSN account.
grafkhun's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/05/2008 15:11
grafkhun
wow I did not know that was the case for PS3, that is annoying to say the least. But still, it's just trophies afterall (and EXP in some games), not game-breaking or anything but a nuisance nonetheless.
BluDesign's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/05/2008 15:15
BluDesign
Look at this from another way. Both of you are logged in on a single Xbox. The profile from the PSN is completely portable. All you have to do on a second PS3 is log in and you're done. Whereas if you want to take your profile to another 360, you have to go through a laborious 30 minute (or longer) download to download an 8MB file to the 360 you're visiting. And then when you go home, you have to redownload your profile AGAIN to your home console.

That's far more retarded.

I can see downloading an account for a first time use, but all transitory changes from that point forward should be handled on the back end by MS. I can after all, see my profile online anytime I want and that's not tied to a console, and doesn't require a 30 minute pause for loading. Why should it be this way for the actual 360?
Gantz's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/05/2008 15:18
Gantz
13+ paragraphs to cry about trophies...?

I've got an idea, play games for the sake of playing games.
Nick Chester's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/05/2008 15:19
Nick Chester
@dvddesign:

Logging in from a second 360 is definitely a pain, but you're over-complicating it. The process to move a gamertag to a MU takes less than a minute, and to login to another 360 simply requires the MU to be in said 360. You don't need to re-transfer it to that unit.

I like that I can login using my username/pass on any PSN, don't get me wrong. I just think not allowing two users to be logged in on one game at any given moment is a weird oversight.
Gantz's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/05/2008 15:27
Gantz
Didn't mean to come off as an ass but i just see this as not much of an issue. I'm used to the days of the snes or ps1 where player to was really only allowed to be player two.

You still get access to the same stuff anyway. Its not like you both have to unlock new levels to play them together.
linuxguy's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/05/2008 15:28
linuxguy
I would say that your wife is getting screwed but that's rude. ;)
Corak's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/05/2008 15:28
Corak
Never realized that. Not that I really would as I don't have that many people over anymore to play the PS3 with me, most are over the network, but it is rather interesting.
deiga-the-semivaliant's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/05/2008 15:30
deiga-the-semivaliant
I guess I'm lucky in that the people I play video games with don't really care about accounts and what-not.
Dudemullet's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/05/2008 15:32
Dudemullet
I hear you nick! Hey if sony listens and gets this fixed, couldyou also tell them I want my PS3 to charge my controllers while its in standby ? thank you ^_^
Samit Sarkar's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/05/2008 15:33
Samit Sarkar
@linuxguy: High five!
Nick Chester's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/05/2008 15:34
Nick Chester
@Gantz:

Here's the thing: at one point, games didn't offer things like trophies or achievements. They do now. There's no good reason why both players can't (or shouldn't) share in that when playing on the same hardware. Microsoft nailed this; Sony did not.

Outside of trophies, the problem extends to gameplay as well when looking at Resistance 2.

Also, just because you don't play with others in the same room, that doesn't mean this isn't an actual issue for people who have actual, you know, interactions with humans.
CelicaCrazed's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/05/2008 15:35
CelicaCrazed
I never noticed that but I hope it will change soon. Resistance 2 will be a game that I will be playing split-screen often and I don't want player 2 to have to start with basic gear all the time.
Drach's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/05/2008 15:36
Drach
There is another side to this that I'm not going to mention being that it's a piracy issue. And this issue is why I can see that player 2 isn't being logged in, given Trophys, etc. I noticed this problem when I irst got my PS3 and a copy of Warhawk. It has to do with the Playstation Store. That's all I'm saying about it. I imagine Sony will get down to the wires on this and allow trophy to be earned in tandem. But again.. The issue has nothing to do with screwing the other player.. it has to do with the Store, and Piracy.

I'm also curious as to why the person who wrote this article didn't make the same connection I am.

@DVDdesign
I did notice that the PS3 is actually quite helpful if you have a PSN account and want to log in using another PS3. It's actually quite convenient as compared to the Xbox. But again, I go into the subject that I refuse to discuss about why this is a bad idea.
grrlaction's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/05/2008 15:38
grrlaction
@ Gantz

I think you're missing the point. Yes, it's annoying that I don't get the same trophies as Nick if I'm achieving things at the same level as he is, but it's not crying-into-my-soup material or anything. What gets my goat is when, last night for example, I wanted to play Resistance 2 with my husband, and I couldn't log in as myself. Therefore, I get no XP, so any leveling-up I do only benefits him; I *am* playing games for the sake of playing games, but a big part of the fun I get out of them is the sense of accomplishment I get when I unlock a new weapon, or rack up enough head shots to go up another level. And all of that is lost to me when that night's gaming session is over. Plus, what fun is it to join an online game with a bunch of friends and be identified only as nickbrutal(2)?
brainderailment's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/05/2008 15:43
brainderailment
I thought of this when I was playing with my wife on LBP, I wasn't getting the trophies, but I was getting the record of me playing the levels and earning the stickers etc... All I had to do was launch into one of the levels and automatically a couple of trophies appeared as I left the level without finishing it. Weird, I know, but I was getting the trophies on there.
Nick Chester's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/05/2008 15:45
Nick Chester
@Drach:

I didn't make the same connection but if Microsoft can figure it out, so can Sony ... and they should. I get that they use DRM models, but that's not excuse. In fact, based on what I hear, dual log in ability is planned for the future. So there's no reason why this wasn't implemented sooner. Or immediately.

As far as me saying "Sony is screwing" us, I know it's not some evil suit-wearing corporate devil polishing his horns somewhere, laughing as player two gets the shaft. That's just silly.
Emrah's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/05/2008 15:48
Emrah
Sony is stupid. They head one more year compared to Xbox360 to sneak any glaring features of their competitors, but trophies came more than a year after launch, let along multiple logins. That's really embarrasing. I thought LBP allowed co-op trophies..
pedrovay2003's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/05/2008 15:49
pedrovay2003
THANK YOU. I feel the same way, especially with LBP recently. We need access to more than one PSN ID as well as more than one headset, all simultaneously. I love the PS3, but this really holds it back.
delriego's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/05/2008 15:52
delriego
so player2 cant see his friend list either?
ShadokatRegn's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/05/2008 15:53
ShadokatRegn
If I remember correctly Trophies are new to Sony...maybe they're learning...or something.

I did play LBP with a friend a week ago, and I was really bummed Sony has limitations on the gamer tag transfer thing - or at the very least, we couldn't figure it out. That way, I couldn't play as myself, and get the satisfaction of creating and saving my own sackboy.

Hopefully this will be fixed, or that's all we can hope for.
Dan CiTi's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/05/2008 16:00
Dan CiTi
Funny thing, I hate the way gamer profiles work on the 360. But dual sign-in would be a nice feature.
dronkmunk's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/05/2008 16:02
dronkmunk
" Microsoft nailed this; Sony did not. "

This. Applies to so much.
Iggy's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/05/2008 16:03
Iggy
I've been thinking the same thing since I got my ps3 a year ago, it's really stupid of Sony not to implement something like ms does with it's profiles, at least LBP has done it and I'm sure more will follow. Should be integrated in xmb though.
mix's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/05/2008 16:17
mix
Im sure my girlfriend is fine about not netting anything under a different profile as our PS3 only has one.

If a friend came over and played though it would make sense to allow them to log on, but again I'm not worried about it either way. If I go to a friends house to play I should be there to play and hang out and not be there getting upset that something I, or we, unlocked did not apply to my account.

I see where there could be concerns but for me there really are none as it's just a game.
Xhumation's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/05/2008 16:38
Xhumation
So I don't have a significant other at the moment.

But when it comes to offline multiplayer, I think the real fun is just having someone over, having a couple of beer and well...playing games.

So 1P gets the trophies, one day you can go back to this person's place and quite simply...return the favor.
solidgoomba's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/05/2008 16:44
solidgoomba
Well, you get what you pay for
MissHinasaki's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/05/2008 16:45
MissHinasaki
You know how you fix this? Don't have friends.

But seriously, I'm starting to think that the videogame industry is trying to deter people from interaction with other actual humans on a same room basis.
Syn's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/05/2008 16:56
Syn
This doesn't bother me so much, I don't care the least bit about trophies or achievements. And only one person I know likes to get them, and she has had me get her Rock Band achievements for her, which didn't bother me so much. There was no way she'd get 100% on expert on anything or the Lord of the Strings one.

Thats me, The Lord of the Strings.
coffeesash's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/05/2008 17:45
coffeesash
At least in LittleBigPlanet, player 2 can log in as another profile and get trophies still, just like you can on the Xbox 360.
Johnny Justice's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/05/2008 17:59
Johnny Justice
I'm glad to hear that you can actually access other players' progress with LBP.

I hope they at least have something like that for GT5, allowing the use of the player 2's own cars.
Palidi's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/05/2008 18:32
Palidi
If player 2 is getting screwed, I can't imagine how players 3&4 feel.
Holyetheline's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/05/2008 18:35
Holyetheline
Sony absolutely needs to fix this problem!
Dexter345's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/05/2008 18:40
Dexter345
Hopefully Sony gets this ironed out, or else we've got another reason to tell Yojimbo why we prefer XBL over PSN.
Kinji's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/05/2008 18:41
Kinji
Thank you so much for this article, this has been bugging me since before trophies. I play a lot of Rock Band, and so do my brothers. In order for us to play together, all of our character have to be on the same account, so rather than picking one of our accounts, we just made a shared account, which worked out fine, except that when I'm playing Rock Band, none of my friends see me as online (although, maybe that's a good thing).

Now with trophies, this shared Rock Band account is getting all of them. Not that I really care about trophies, but it'd be nice to have what everyone else gets.

At least Little Big Planet allows other users to use their save files. It's a step in the right direction.

I was planning on picking up Resistance 2 eventually, but now I might wait till Sony gets their shit together and fixes this, because I was planning on getting it for offline coop.
Emrah's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/05/2008 18:42
Emrah
Sony is stupid. They head one more year compared to Xbox360 to sneak any glaring features of their competitors, but trophies came more than a year after launch, let along multiple logins. That's really embarrasing. I thought LBP allowed co-op trophies..
Emrah's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/05/2008 18:44
Emrah
Argh- "they head" = "they had", in my post. I can has fluent english.
ghettosmurf's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/05/2008 19:07
ghettosmurf
100% completely agree. The lack of this feature alone has kept my roommate and I from playing split-screen games much more than we have. Sometimes, you just don't care to be YourFriendsDumbName(1), and you want to accrue some credit for what you do. Sucks that it's apparently so much to ask outside of the 360... oh and the ORIGINAL Xbox too.
taterchimp's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/05/2008 19:14
taterchimp
Its interesting because this issue is in Lego Star Wars: Complete Saga. My girlfriend and I have been playing it, but the save only saves to one profile. That is to say we are both playing, but if she tries to load it, she has no data. Odd. Also only I get achievements for beating each level. My girlfriend is a bit of an achievement...obsessor...so its kinda sad
BluDesign's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/05/2008 22:38
BluDesign
@nick

That's assuming I want to pay for a memory unit, and I do not. It's a waste of $50 for a procedure that takes too long as it is.

I don't disagree with your article, I just think MS's attitude towards multiple accounts is equally stupid for different reasons.
Kazooaloo's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/06/2008 00:23
Kazooaloo
Is it just me, or is Sony made of fail quite often these days?


@dvddesign

Actually, you can get them for pretty cheap. The only reason you would want to get a 512 mb card is if you want to store a ton of XBLA games or downloaded content. I bought a used 64 mb card for about $20, give or take. I use it to go back and forth between friends and my parents house as well as school, where I don't have access to Xbox Live. There's just enough space on there to store both my sister's and my profile, plus quite a few game saves. It saves a lot of time then waiting for Xbox Live to just *think* about loading my profile.

-Kazoo
The-Excel's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/06/2008 00:26
The-Excel
Doesn't the PS3 support seven controllers connected at once?
JustLikeBuck's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/06/2008 04:01
JustLikeBuck
Does anybody else remember when we used to play video games for fun.

Yeah it's a pain you can't have 2 or more logged in at a time, AND get the trophies, AND get other benefits. But for me it's not critical. The GF doesn't really care about Trophies, and neither do I TBH, they're a nice touch, but they won't make me play a game any longer (unless they're easily obtainable).

It'll come with time. Yeah, its way behind the 360 on that front, but I'd rather they get it right, than rushed.
c_nt's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/06/2008 04:08
c_nt
My partner and I share a PSN account. All my trophies are his, and all his trophies are mine. Togetherness at its finest.
Drach's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/06/2008 07:00
Drach
lol, Nick the last statement is kinda funny (in your response to me) because I can kinda see it... a Japanese man with his horns on his lap WATCHING YOUR GAME... and laughing to himself about players 2-4 NOT getting trophies! BWHOHOHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!
I do agree, this should be implemented. I wonder if Japanese Playstation users are also having this happen to them.
Demtor's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/06/2008 07:50
Demtor
Its interesting you bring this up, as I've never even noticed this but now it seems silly that Sony doesn't have something like Microsoft does. I might care if anyone I knew gave a damn about trophies.
DemonEyes23's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/06/2008 15:06
DemonEyes23
so very true they really need to make it so that games that offer coop can have more than 1 person logged on at once...that is after resistance 2 gets its online split screen coop troubles fixed
Steel Squirrel's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/06/2008 16:51
Steel Squirrel
I like how people who this doesn't apply to, comment on the story. "I could care less, I don't have REAL friends."

That is a crappy oversight for sure though, its fun to know that you are earning something as player 2 as well, especially when there are player 2 specific achievements. It is just fun.
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