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hmmmm, i think jim doth protest too much. just admit that heavy rain made you cry. we won't think any less of you.
Also, sounds like David Cage should have watched Dexter to see how to PROPERLY do a serial killer undercover on the side of the law.
While I wholeheartedly agree with you, I just have to throw this word into the discussion.
Schizophrenia
That would explain the entire deal with the thought processes. Two different minds in one person.
But of course for this to be true it would have to be mentioned in the game. If they now retroactively try to tell us this, then it's just the typical "Oh yeah we meant that all along" kind of bullshit.
Schizophrenia
That would explain the entire deal with the thought processes. Two different minds in one person.
But of course for this to be true it would have to be mentioned in the game. If they now retroactively try to tell us this, then it's just the typical "Oh yeah we meant that all along" kind of bullshit.
You are controlling Shelby in the watch store.
Someone kills the watch-store owner.
It turns out it was Shelby.
Did the cameraman fall asleep for a minute?
WHAT THE FUCK
Someone kills the watch-store owner.
It turns out it was Shelby.
Did the cameraman fall asleep for a minute?
WHAT THE FUCK
Chill out, fatso, looks like you've never played those burch indie games. The bar for game narrative was at -1 for a couple years now.
Yea the ability to see thoughts ruined the storyline a bit. The fact that there was no explanation for the blackouts was also stupid. It's not just the act of blacking out but the fact he woke up in that intersection with an origami figure in his hand. A deliberate attempt to fool the player indeed.
The likes of Ethan's stupidity as a protagonist have not been seen since Bram Stoker's Dracula.
I also believe the Norman Jayden sequences were terrible. As a character he was just bad and storyline breaking. I let him die in my playthrough and it was more bearable.
I thought the Madison sequences were pretty good save for the whole look of shock at the discovery of the killer despite having never met him.
I thought it was fun despite the plot holes. I am in no hurry to see the rest of it though.
The likes of Ethan's stupidity as a protagonist have not been seen since Bram Stoker's Dracula.
I also believe the Norman Jayden sequences were terrible. As a character he was just bad and storyline breaking. I let him die in my playthrough and it was more bearable.
I thought the Madison sequences were pretty good save for the whole look of shock at the discovery of the killer despite having never met him.
I thought it was fun despite the plot holes. I am in no hurry to see the rest of it though.
I haven't played Heavy Rain, but I did play the demo, and I guessed that one of the characters that I played as in the demo would turn out to be the killer. Good job, me!
I should be a detective. I'd just correctly guess who the killer was as soon as I heard the case, and save everyone a lot of time.
I should be a detective. I'd just correctly guess who the killer was as soon as I heard the case, and save everyone a lot of time.
I love Heavy Rain but I tend to agree. The plot twist was not the thing I wanted to see. As you said, you clearly haven't played him as a bad guy. He's really not the kind of character who is a gruesome child murderer. Maybe it would have turned out better to see Ethan as the killer but it would have been way too obvious. Still, his character was portayed in a really interesting way. You know, you're focusing way too much on the actual killer. Yes, it's no twist like we saw in fight club or seven. Hell, I don't even know that much films that actually have a great plot twist. Keep in mind that this form of video game/episodic show/whatever is really new and you said yourself that you actually enjoyed the game so the experiment from Quantic dream was a success. That's the way I see it. I'd like to see more 'games' like this. The way you're playing and hearing really imersed me into the character. Some actions you were doing were so perfectly implemented into the game and the actual move from the character you made was the same as the one you were doing on the sofa. I think that's really great in the game. Further on, the music was top notch. Sometimes it was so subtle and well placed. If you missed this, you really missed a lot of artistic things. As I said before, Heavy Rain is NOT about who the origami killer is. You're tunnel visioning this way too much.
And what I wanted to add between and got lost in something else. Just imagine that they way they were doing Heavy Rain gets more streamlined or let's say cheaper to produce. Imagine whole shows.(I'm speaking of shows like bsg, dollhouse, carnivale, ...) And this brings me to another thing. There was a rant that sometimes Heavy Rain plays for itself so even if you suck and don't press anything the scene ends well. Well, this is a pretty tough thing to handle but from a directing point of view a needed sacrifice. The story doesn't need to branch that much that several characters can die. If someone manages to combine the directing way of a film and still puts a gameplay around it that is interesting with the choices you make you'll have a masterpiece that combines film and video games.
And what I wanted to add between and got lost in something else. Just imagine that they way they were doing Heavy Rain gets more streamlined or let's say cheaper to produce. Imagine whole shows.(I'm speaking of shows like bsg, dollhouse, carnivale, ...) And this brings me to another thing. There was a rant that sometimes Heavy Rain plays for itself so even if you suck and don't press anything the scene ends well. Well, this is a pretty tough thing to handle but from a directing point of view a needed sacrifice. The story doesn't need to branch that much that several characters can die. If someone manages to combine the directing way of a film and still puts a gameplay around it that is interesting with the choices you make you'll have a masterpiece that combines film and video games.
dgschrei:
Schizophrenia would have been the perfect explanation, but Scott Shelby does not have schizophrenia. The game makes a point of explaining that Shelby's "investigation" was to get his hands on evidence, even if he did fuck up bigtime and make things harder for himself because the game didn't care about tying up loose ends. The game never even implies that Shelby isn't himself at any point in the game.
It does, however, seem to indicate that Shelby is a retard as well as a killer.
Schizophrenia would have been the perfect explanation, but Scott Shelby does not have schizophrenia. The game makes a point of explaining that Shelby's "investigation" was to get his hands on evidence, even if he did fuck up bigtime and make things harder for himself because the game didn't care about tying up loose ends. The game never even implies that Shelby isn't himself at any point in the game.
It does, however, seem to indicate that Shelby is a retard as well as a killer.
Here is a fun game, almost as fun as Heavy Rain:
Spot the commenters who dislike the article, but can't seem to find anything wrong with it, as evidenced by the fact they just insult the writer instead.
Spot the commenters who dislike the article, but can't seem to find anything wrong with it, as evidenced by the fact they just insult the writer instead.
"I need a rest, I haven't been sleeping since the murders started up again"
I would assume he's talking about the copycat murders.
"Maybe she knows something about the circumstances surrounding her son's death"
"Said he didn't wanna talk. Might've known something"
He was interviewing both of these characters to ensure that they didn't know anything about his involvement in the murders.
Still, I think you've got a valid point, and leaving out te thought system would havemade for a far better game. When I was about to drink the phial of poison I listened to Mars's thoughts, and the dialogue was just incredibly stunted and jarring.
I also noticed that about Mars's blackouts. I can only assume that Shelby was stalking Ethan for quite some time, and was using his blackouts - caused by the accident - to convince Mars that he might very well be the killer himself. But as you say, we shouldn't have to speculate. It should have been explained in the plot.
Nevertheless, I think that to attack the story quite so forcefully is unfair. We can't deny that it at least attempts an emotional, sincere story. For a videogame, even that is commendable.
I don't think Heavy Rain necessarily tried "too hard to be clever",it simply attempts to weave a compelling tale. In some ways it succeeds, in other it doesn't. But it never once felt pretentious or overreaching to me. Having Shelby revealed as the killer felt fine to me. I enjoyed it, actually. To assume that he wouldn't act the way he does just because he's a serial killer seems a little one-dimensional. Surely there's more than one kind of serial killer in the world, and Scott Shelby is clearly a very complex individual. I find it insulting that you constantly bang on here about everyone having a right to their own opinion, and then sayingthings like "anybody with a mind of their own ought to be smart enough to figure that out." I have a mind of my own, I'm an ardent cinephile and an avid gamer, and I found Heavy Rain to be tale well told. It's not perfect by any means, but I think it's an important step in pushing videogames towards the next plateau.
I would assume he's talking about the copycat murders.
"Maybe she knows something about the circumstances surrounding her son's death"
"Said he didn't wanna talk. Might've known something"
He was interviewing both of these characters to ensure that they didn't know anything about his involvement in the murders.
Still, I think you've got a valid point, and leaving out te thought system would havemade for a far better game. When I was about to drink the phial of poison I listened to Mars's thoughts, and the dialogue was just incredibly stunted and jarring.
I also noticed that about Mars's blackouts. I can only assume that Shelby was stalking Ethan for quite some time, and was using his blackouts - caused by the accident - to convince Mars that he might very well be the killer himself. But as you say, we shouldn't have to speculate. It should have been explained in the plot.
Nevertheless, I think that to attack the story quite so forcefully is unfair. We can't deny that it at least attempts an emotional, sincere story. For a videogame, even that is commendable.
I don't think Heavy Rain necessarily tried "too hard to be clever",it simply attempts to weave a compelling tale. In some ways it succeeds, in other it doesn't. But it never once felt pretentious or overreaching to me. Having Shelby revealed as the killer felt fine to me. I enjoyed it, actually. To assume that he wouldn't act the way he does just because he's a serial killer seems a little one-dimensional. Surely there's more than one kind of serial killer in the world, and Scott Shelby is clearly a very complex individual. I find it insulting that you constantly bang on here about everyone having a right to their own opinion, and then sayingthings like "anybody with a mind of their own ought to be smart enough to figure that out." I have a mind of my own, I'm an ardent cinephile and an avid gamer, and I found Heavy Rain to be tale well told. It's not perfect by any means, but I think it's an important step in pushing videogames towards the next plateau.
I do agree about the Blackouts being unexplained and a big hole, but that could be explained in the upcoming dlc... maybe, so it didn't really bother me as much as other people.
Also,there is a glaring hole in your argument, sir. We learn that Shelby didn't kill Lauren's child, it was a copycat killer. We learn that when you confront that rich guy's son at his house party. Unless you got a different ending, I would explore more outcomes int he game and see the other possible endings. If there is an ending where Shelby admits to Lauren's sons death, then I retract this statement.
I also think that Shelby's compassion towards other people is legitimate because if you actually looked at the reasons why Shelby was committing the crimes, he did it to prove that a father can be a good person and be able to save his own son. It is an extreme kind of moral upholding, or lesson teaching, similar to the Jigsaw killer from Saw (only saw the first one, so I'm only referencing that movie), so I don't think that the normal game situations go far at all from his character.
As far as not wanting the rain to continue thoughts he had, it is possible that he somehow doesn't want the children to die, instead justifying it that it is indeed the ineptitude of their fathers to save them which causes their death. Being a serial killer, justifying his actions that way could be plausible.
Also,there is a glaring hole in your argument, sir. We learn that Shelby didn't kill Lauren's child, it was a copycat killer. We learn that when you confront that rich guy's son at his house party. Unless you got a different ending, I would explore more outcomes int he game and see the other possible endings. If there is an ending where Shelby admits to Lauren's sons death, then I retract this statement.
I also think that Shelby's compassion towards other people is legitimate because if you actually looked at the reasons why Shelby was committing the crimes, he did it to prove that a father can be a good person and be able to save his own son. It is an extreme kind of moral upholding, or lesson teaching, similar to the Jigsaw killer from Saw (only saw the first one, so I'm only referencing that movie), so I don't think that the normal game situations go far at all from his character.
As far as not wanting the rain to continue thoughts he had, it is possible that he somehow doesn't want the children to die, instead justifying it that it is indeed the ineptitude of their fathers to save them which causes their death. Being a serial killer, justifying his actions that way could be plausible.
@Jim Sterling
Maybe we find out what the deal with Ethan is... in the sequel! Also, I think this "Shelby is a retard" idea holds some ground. Because of science.
Maybe we find out what the deal with Ethan is... in the sequel! Also, I think this "Shelby is a retard" idea holds some ground. Because of science.
I was disappointed about them never explaining Ethan's blackouts. I just assumed it was because of the car accident and him reading about the murders that made him go slightly loopy and think he was the killer.
"I need a rest, I haven't been sleeping since the murders started up again"
I would assume he's talking about the copycat murders.
"Maybe she knows something about the circumstances surrounding her son's death"
"Said he didn't wanna talk. Might've known something"
He was interviewing both of these characters to ensure that they didn't know anything about his involvement in the murders.
Still, I think you've got a valid point, and leaving out te thought system would havemade for a far better game. When I was about to drink the phial of poison I listened to Mars's thoughts, and the dialogue was just incredibly stunted and jarring.
I also noticed that about Mars's blackouts. I can only assume that Shelby was stalking Ethan for quite some time, and was using his blackouts - caused by the accident - to convince Mars that he might very well be the killer himself. But as you say, we shouldn't have to speculate. It should have been explained in the plot.
Nevertheless, I think that to attack the story quite so forcefully is unfair. We can't deny that it at least attempts an emotional, sincere story. For a videogame, even that is commendable.
I don't think Heavy Rain necessarily tried "too hard to be clever",it simply attempts to weave a compelling tale. In some ways it succeeds, in other it doesn't. But it never once felt pretentious or overreaching to me. Having Shelby revealed as the killer felt fine to me. I enjoyed it, actually. To assume that he wouldn't act the way he does just because he's a serial killer seems a little one-dimensional. Surely there's more than one kind of serial killer in the world, and Scott Shelby is clearly a very complex individual. I find it insulting that you constantly bang on here about everyone having a right to their own opinion, and then sayingthings like "anybody with a mind of their own ought to be smart enough to figure that out." I have a mind of my own, I'm an ardent cinephile and an avid gamer, and I found Heavy Rain to be tale well told. It's not perfect by any means, but I think it's an important step in pushing videogames towards the next plateau.
I would assume he's talking about the copycat murders.
"Maybe she knows something about the circumstances surrounding her son's death"
"Said he didn't wanna talk. Might've known something"
He was interviewing both of these characters to ensure that they didn't know anything about his involvement in the murders.
Still, I think you've got a valid point, and leaving out te thought system would havemade for a far better game. When I was about to drink the phial of poison I listened to Mars's thoughts, and the dialogue was just incredibly stunted and jarring.
I also noticed that about Mars's blackouts. I can only assume that Shelby was stalking Ethan for quite some time, and was using his blackouts - caused by the accident - to convince Mars that he might very well be the killer himself. But as you say, we shouldn't have to speculate. It should have been explained in the plot.
Nevertheless, I think that to attack the story quite so forcefully is unfair. We can't deny that it at least attempts an emotional, sincere story. For a videogame, even that is commendable.
I don't think Heavy Rain necessarily tried "too hard to be clever",it simply attempts to weave a compelling tale. In some ways it succeeds, in other it doesn't. But it never once felt pretentious or overreaching to me. Having Shelby revealed as the killer felt fine to me. I enjoyed it, actually. To assume that he wouldn't act the way he does just because he's a serial killer seems a little one-dimensional. Surely there's more than one kind of serial killer in the world, and Scott Shelby is clearly a very complex individual. I find it insulting that you constantly bang on here about everyone having a right to their own opinion, and then sayingthings like "anybody with a mind of their own ought to be smart enough to figure that out." I have a mind of my own, I'm an ardent cinephile and an avid gamer, and I found Heavy Rain to be tale well told. It's not perfect by any means, but I think it's an important step in pushing videogames towards the next plateau.
@ dgschrei
That's not what schizophrenia is. You're referring to dissociative personality disorder.
/nitpicking
That's not what schizophrenia is. You're referring to dissociative personality disorder.
/nitpicking
lol @ retarded fanboys who didn't even read the article and just assume Jim is trolling/hates the game/fucks his xbox. If you dipshits would READ you would see that Jim LIKED THE GAME, he just had an issue with the twist, jesus fucking christ.
"I would assume he's talking about the copycat murders."
There was only one copycat murder, and as far as I know, the details were never released to the public, so all Shelby would have known was that Gordy had been involved with the disappearance of one child.
"He was interviewing both of these characters to ensure that they didn't know anything about his involvement in the murders. "
If that were the case, would he have been so casual and calm about it? He says that particular line with total indifference, as if it was a nice thought that he might have gotten something. I don't think the way he delivers these lines are consistent with a killer trying to cover his tracks.
There was only one copycat murder, and as far as I know, the details were never released to the public, so all Shelby would have known was that Gordy had been involved with the disappearance of one child.
"He was interviewing both of these characters to ensure that they didn't know anything about his involvement in the murders. "
If that were the case, would he have been so casual and calm about it? He says that particular line with total indifference, as if it was a nice thought that he might have gotten something. I don't think the way he delivers these lines are consistent with a killer trying to cover his tracks.
@everyone using the "it's only a videogame so cut it some slack" argument:
That's the ENTIRE PROBLEM. This game was supposed to be a landmark for videogame storytelling. It was supposed to show us that videogames could have deep, meaningful narratives. The fact that it obviously fails at storytelling is just disheartening and only strengthens the arguments of videogame detractors.
That's the ENTIRE PROBLEM. This game was supposed to be a landmark for videogame storytelling. It was supposed to show us that videogames could have deep, meaningful narratives. The fact that it obviously fails at storytelling is just disheartening and only strengthens the arguments of videogame detractors.
Ah yes, here they come. I love how people are making new accounts just to cry at you about the article or attempt to put you down. Haha, that's pretty sad. May the entertainment begin.
I for one am glad I read this article because I would be very dissatisfied with the outcome of the story. Especially in a game like this where the story is the MAIN piece of the entire game, not like you play Heavy Rain cause of its awesome and addicting gameplay.
I for one am glad I read this article because I would be very dissatisfied with the outcome of the story. Especially in a game like this where the story is the MAIN piece of the entire game, not like you play Heavy Rain cause of its awesome and addicting gameplay.
This article fails in so many ways.
Fail 1: Plot hole about Ethan is likely to be explained in the Origami Killer DLC if a lot of peoples theories are right about Scott following Ethan around, observing him and placing the piece of Origami in his hand as a get out of Jail free card so that once he has wiped up all of the evidence (which is what his chapters are about, not investigating), he has a Grade A loon who thinks HE is the Origami killer, therefore having the fire taken off of him.
Fail 2: He has no problem connecting to people because he ISN'T a typical serial killer. He killed children in order to find a dad which loved his son. He hated the fathers, but not the mothers because he saw what his own mother went through. You noticed that, even though Ethan found his son in time, he was still going to shoot him? This is because he despises father's no matter what.
Fail 3: Madison easily could have been shocked due to her knowing him as a Police officer from years prior, not just because they were after a forced ending. Oh and, you know, the fact that she is a JOURNALIST who managed to find info on a random guy selling an apartment from a contact, she also got hold of Jayden's name and number this way, so what makes you think she didn't get wind of Scott working the case? There isn't any proof she didnt get wind of it, thats why.
I, personally, think a lot of these answers will be explained in the Chronicles DLC. Then, and only then, will I say this game is flawed.
It certainly is NOT a low bar for game narrative, that is severely overdoing it, just because YOU don't like or get points in the game, it doesnt mean everyone else isn't capable of thinking out of the box. The only plothole I noticed was the age one, and that was just a slip of dates in my eyes, not the apocalypse.
Fail 1: Plot hole about Ethan is likely to be explained in the Origami Killer DLC if a lot of peoples theories are right about Scott following Ethan around, observing him and placing the piece of Origami in his hand as a get out of Jail free card so that once he has wiped up all of the evidence (which is what his chapters are about, not investigating), he has a Grade A loon who thinks HE is the Origami killer, therefore having the fire taken off of him.
Fail 2: He has no problem connecting to people because he ISN'T a typical serial killer. He killed children in order to find a dad which loved his son. He hated the fathers, but not the mothers because he saw what his own mother went through. You noticed that, even though Ethan found his son in time, he was still going to shoot him? This is because he despises father's no matter what.
Fail 3: Madison easily could have been shocked due to her knowing him as a Police officer from years prior, not just because they were after a forced ending. Oh and, you know, the fact that she is a JOURNALIST who managed to find info on a random guy selling an apartment from a contact, she also got hold of Jayden's name and number this way, so what makes you think she didn't get wind of Scott working the case? There isn't any proof she didnt get wind of it, thats why.
I, personally, think a lot of these answers will be explained in the Chronicles DLC. Then, and only then, will I say this game is flawed.
It certainly is NOT a low bar for game narrative, that is severely overdoing it, just because YOU don't like or get points in the game, it doesnt mean everyone else isn't capable of thinking out of the box. The only plothole I noticed was the age one, and that was just a slip of dates in my eyes, not the apocalypse.
Don't think too hard microanalysing the plot makes the game more fun.
Also, I think that dad the game not had such a high profile and David Cage been banned from wanking off over the marketing, then I think it receive a much warmer "critical" reception and become a huge sleeper hit, the same way Farenheit did. He has hyped it to be the best thing ever. It is not, it is just nice little unique game.
Also, I think that dad the game not had such a high profile and David Cage been banned from wanking off over the marketing, then I think it receive a much warmer "critical" reception and become a huge sleeper hit, the same way Farenheit did. He has hyped it to be the best thing ever. It is not, it is just nice little unique game.
Shelby didn't kill the woman trying to commit suicide or Lauren because they're both mothers. He seemed to show care for mothers throughout the game. Although his own mother says that he never visits him, it's hard to clarify anything that she said due to her Alzheimers.
That's just my interpretation though, and like a good movie, book, or any story told through various mediums, things remain open for interpretation.
That's just my interpretation though, and like a good movie, book, or any story told through various mediums, things remain open for interpretation.
i think there's an additional twist:
because this is what exactly i would've written and was already in my head: I MUST BE JIM STERLING WHEN I'M NOT PAYING ATTENTION
DUN DUN DUNNNNNN
because this is what exactly i would've written and was already in my head: I MUST BE JIM STERLING WHEN I'M NOT PAYING ATTENTION
DUN DUN DUNNNNNN
Thanks you Jim. It's good to see someone actually admit what a travesty that story is. We need more writers who don't hold back.
"The overall message seems to be this -- what would be unacceptable in a movie is okay for a videogame, because gamers are fucking stupid.
That's really not the message I'd like to see gamers sending. "
WHAT?!
HAHAHAHAHHAH
Yes - BUT EVERYONE GO AND BUY RETARDED CONSOLE DEADSHITTERY #1231983! REAL SMART!
That's really not the message I'd like to see gamers sending. "
WHAT?!
HAHAHAHAHHAH
Yes - BUT EVERYONE GO AND BUY RETARDED CONSOLE DEADSHITTERY #1231983! REAL SMART!
Fantastic Jim :) I was going to write about the exact same plot holes but you beat me to the punch. Well done, I 100% agree with you on the sloppy writing. I disagree though that games should not be applauded for trying. Heavy Rain tries to give us an adult-like mature title...it just fails. But In a world of military shooters and sci-fi marines; I think its refreshing to see a game try to do something different, even if it fails. Hopefully this game will inspire a better team to attempt something similar and pull it off. I think Gears Of War was a ok game, but it inspired Mass Effect, which I think is a great game...so maybe heavy rain will inspire another developer to take a crack at a Dark Modern Noir type setting filled with difficult choices and really pull it off.
I thought it was especially funny that (oh by the way, spoilers!!)
He had a secret room. In this secret room, he grew orchids. REALLY?! lame.
He had a secret room. In this secret room, he grew orchids. REALLY?! lame.
The only way such a major plot twist could work with the game play mechanic of being able to read the character's thoughts is if they pulled a "Fight Club"(/thousands of other works featuring the "ZOMG, I HAZ 2 PERSONALITIES!" twist), and since they never went out there and said "we're pulling a Fight Club",their story is pretty much a joke.
I enjoyed Heavy Rain, a lot more than I actually expected to even. But everything Jim says is 100% correct and to deny that is to deny reality folks.
I personally and unfortunately had the identity of the killer revealed to me before the game had been released. Some dick head trolls thought it would be funny to run around putting the killer's identity in the title of topics on various forums and I felt as though the game was ruin for me initially. I mean the whole point of the game is to play along trying to guess along with the characters the identity of the Origami Killer, and without that I thought it would be a lame experience. It'd be like watching the Sixth Sense knowing from the beginning that Bruce Willis is a ghost, it'd just ruin all of the impact of the movie.
However, there was still just enough to the game to keep it gripping and engaging, such as Ethan's trials and the various escapes and fight scenes. But I was even more angry by the end of the game for the very reasons Jim mentioned, up until the identity of the killer is revealed you think he's a pretty awesome guy. Shelby was my favorite character by the end of the game, I just couldn't figure out how a guy this kind and caring could be the killer. Serial killers don't go to the lengths Shelby does to be good, even to fool others let alone himself while thinking, so it just didn't make any sense whatsoever. It was even more ridiculous that they had him fall in love with Lauren, kissing her, the mother of one of his victims. All of that combined with the whole "hearing his thoughts" thing, none of it made a lick of sense. It felt like they just came up with it at the last second and threw it in there hoping to shock everyone. It's like they said "Hey! Let's make the kindest, and most awesome character the murderer. No one will see it coming!" But that's because it's completely ridiculous and stupid.
Shelby was the worst choice for the killer in my opinion. He was just too awesome to fit the character. Even if you don't see a swerve coming, afterward it should still make you go "Oh! That actually makes sense." But with Shelby you just sit there and think "What the fuck?! That doesn't make any sense at all!"
I personally and unfortunately had the identity of the killer revealed to me before the game had been released. Some dick head trolls thought it would be funny to run around putting the killer's identity in the title of topics on various forums and I felt as though the game was ruin for me initially. I mean the whole point of the game is to play along trying to guess along with the characters the identity of the Origami Killer, and without that I thought it would be a lame experience. It'd be like watching the Sixth Sense knowing from the beginning that Bruce Willis is a ghost, it'd just ruin all of the impact of the movie.
However, there was still just enough to the game to keep it gripping and engaging, such as Ethan's trials and the various escapes and fight scenes. But I was even more angry by the end of the game for the very reasons Jim mentioned, up until the identity of the killer is revealed you think he's a pretty awesome guy. Shelby was my favorite character by the end of the game, I just couldn't figure out how a guy this kind and caring could be the killer. Serial killers don't go to the lengths Shelby does to be good, even to fool others let alone himself while thinking, so it just didn't make any sense whatsoever. It was even more ridiculous that they had him fall in love with Lauren, kissing her, the mother of one of his victims. All of that combined with the whole "hearing his thoughts" thing, none of it made a lick of sense. It felt like they just came up with it at the last second and threw it in there hoping to shock everyone. It's like they said "Hey! Let's make the kindest, and most awesome character the murderer. No one will see it coming!" But that's because it's completely ridiculous and stupid.
Shelby was the worst choice for the killer in my opinion. He was just too awesome to fit the character. Even if you don't see a swerve coming, afterward it should still make you go "Oh! That actually makes sense." But with Shelby you just sit there and think "What the fuck?! That doesn't make any sense at all!"
Again, shame they couldn't quite pull it off. I am not a PS3 owner, but this would have been on my "must have" list if/when I get one.
@EssGee
"Nevertheless, I think that to attack the story quite so forcefully is unfair. We can't deny that it at least attempts an emotional, sincere story."
You can say that all you want, but that's not a legitimate reason to criticize a story, especially in a game where story is one of the most important aspects, if not the important aspect, and one as significant as Heavy Rain. Trying is still not an excuse for failing.
@Matt Bradley
"I, personally, think a lot of these answers will be explained in the Chronicles DLC."
That's no excuse for having the holes in the first place. Lots of players will play the game without the DLC and they'll be left in the dark. For a game like Heavy Rain, DLC should be supplementary, providing backstories and other information about the characters, but it should not be crucial to understanding the main story. That would be a dickmove of the highest proportions.
@EssGee
"Nevertheless, I think that to attack the story quite so forcefully is unfair. We can't deny that it at least attempts an emotional, sincere story."
You can say that all you want, but that's not a legitimate reason to criticize a story, especially in a game where story is one of the most important aspects, if not the important aspect, and one as significant as Heavy Rain. Trying is still not an excuse for failing.
@Matt Bradley
"I, personally, think a lot of these answers will be explained in the Chronicles DLC."
That's no excuse for having the holes in the first place. Lots of players will play the game without the DLC and they'll be left in the dark. For a game like Heavy Rain, DLC should be supplementary, providing backstories and other information about the characters, but it should not be crucial to understanding the main story. That would be a dickmove of the highest proportions.
... you could've said the comments here contain spoilers in the header... fuck you people for spoiling the ending. Though I closed my eyes when I saw "the killer". So yeah. F*** YOU D:
@ Matt Bradley
Madison had no idea who Shelby was. Notice when you opened the closet to his secret room she goes,
"HES A COP?!?! Guess you can't trust anybody."
If she had heard his name from years prior while he was a captain she would already know he was a cop. She gasped for no reason. It was a forced ending bud.
Madison had no idea who Shelby was. Notice when you opened the closet to his secret room she goes,
"HES A COP?!?! Guess you can't trust anybody."
If she had heard his name from years prior while he was a captain she would already know he was a cop. She gasped for no reason. It was a forced ending bud.
"Said he didn't wanna talk. Might've known something"
"Maybe she knows something about the circumstances surrounding her son's death"
"All the newspapers are talking about Shaun Mars, the kid who disappeared"
In my ending of Heavy Rain, Lauren figures out that Scott was going back through the case to pick up any evidence he left behind. He masked himself as a PI so he had a reason to go around searching for clues. All three of those quotes reflect that. He wants to know if the parents know anything, to see if he has to dispose of them or not.
To the point of him saving a suicidal mother. He has nothing against mothers, in fact his mom is the person he wanted to come save his brother when they were kids. Why wouldn't he save her? You might say "that doesn't make sense" well neither do psychopaths. He has no problem with killing kids and fathers, but he can still hold mothers to a high praise.
Same goes with the relationship with Lauren. Scott's entire reasoning for the murders was because he was in an abusive household, where nobody loved him. Now he finds a girl who wants to follow him everywhere? Sounds like he's looking for something to happen since he's been so alone all his life.
Honestly Heavy Rain has some problems, but can you not insult the readers' intelligence and try to pass it off as if you don't hate the game? This entire article is talking about how its not only a poor plot, but degrades every other video game plot ever, how is that not a hate-filled statement? It seems obvious you've made up your mind about the game and refuse to see the other side.
"Maybe she knows something about the circumstances surrounding her son's death"
"All the newspapers are talking about Shaun Mars, the kid who disappeared"
In my ending of Heavy Rain, Lauren figures out that Scott was going back through the case to pick up any evidence he left behind. He masked himself as a PI so he had a reason to go around searching for clues. All three of those quotes reflect that. He wants to know if the parents know anything, to see if he has to dispose of them or not.
To the point of him saving a suicidal mother. He has nothing against mothers, in fact his mom is the person he wanted to come save his brother when they were kids. Why wouldn't he save her? You might say "that doesn't make sense" well neither do psychopaths. He has no problem with killing kids and fathers, but he can still hold mothers to a high praise.
Same goes with the relationship with Lauren. Scott's entire reasoning for the murders was because he was in an abusive household, where nobody loved him. Now he finds a girl who wants to follow him everywhere? Sounds like he's looking for something to happen since he's been so alone all his life.
Honestly Heavy Rain has some problems, but can you not insult the readers' intelligence and try to pass it off as if you don't hate the game? This entire article is talking about how its not only a poor plot, but degrades every other video game plot ever, how is that not a hate-filled statement? It seems obvious you've made up your mind about the game and refuse to see the other side.
I have to disagree with a few points you've made Jim. On the age, I was sitting there a moment trying to calculate it out. I thought he looked a bit too old as well, but I just chalked that up to someone living a hard life. I just didn't accept that the kid was 10, he looked more like 7.
Anyway. Going on to the points about Scott Shelby's behavior. A serial killer like the type they wrote him as would be completely capable of sympathy for someone like Lauren. He holds no animosity toward anyone, he's not doing it for kicks, and each of the kids he took he was trying to find a father worthy of being what he thought a father should be. In his wahcked mind, he didn't kill the kids, the father's did. At least that's my take on it.
As for Ethan's blackouts not being explained, I thought the explanation his shrink gave sufficed. When has a doctor ever been able to explain someone's blackouts that are caused by a traumatic event? I've never seen it. Only when there's physical damage to the brain can they fix it. And the reason he didn't black out for the next 2 days in the game? As a matter of the mind, his consciousness was 100% behind finding his son. He may still have black outs, or maybe he got over his trauma after finding his son and proving to himself that he is a good father. Something Shelby did too (the kids Shelby took came from father's that were less than perfect).
The only other aspect in the story I thought was off was the sex, but I expected that from the moment she helped him. And in vulnerable moments it's slightly (very slightly) understandable that he'd take 10 minutes to get his jollies off for a moment of joy in this time of distress. Especially for someone who's been taking a lot of care of him. He's been a broken man for a while remember. 10 minutes of sex before a little rest isn't going to hurt anything. He was going to rest anyway.
Anyway. Going on to the points about Scott Shelby's behavior. A serial killer like the type they wrote him as would be completely capable of sympathy for someone like Lauren. He holds no animosity toward anyone, he's not doing it for kicks, and each of the kids he took he was trying to find a father worthy of being what he thought a father should be. In his wahcked mind, he didn't kill the kids, the father's did. At least that's my take on it.
As for Ethan's blackouts not being explained, I thought the explanation his shrink gave sufficed. When has a doctor ever been able to explain someone's blackouts that are caused by a traumatic event? I've never seen it. Only when there's physical damage to the brain can they fix it. And the reason he didn't black out for the next 2 days in the game? As a matter of the mind, his consciousness was 100% behind finding his son. He may still have black outs, or maybe he got over his trauma after finding his son and proving to himself that he is a good father. Something Shelby did too (the kids Shelby took came from father's that were less than perfect).
The only other aspect in the story I thought was off was the sex, but I expected that from the moment she helped him. And in vulnerable moments it's slightly (very slightly) understandable that he'd take 10 minutes to get his jollies off for a moment of joy in this time of distress. Especially for someone who's been taking a lot of care of him. He's been a broken man for a while remember. 10 minutes of sex before a little rest isn't going to hurt anything. He was going to rest anyway.
@Matt Bradley: Wait, so you excuse the game's faults based on DLC that is to come in the future? a game is supposed to be a standalone story (unless it's part of a planned trilogy or something), saying it's ok cuz MAYBE all the faulty details in it (specially in a game that thrives to be a film) and mentioned in the article will be explained in DLC (that AFAIK is not free) is dumb as hell.
@DaShiz
Madison's got journalisms.
Maybe she was familiar with the guy because he was investigating "on behalf of the families" for a while?
Know what makes this game look like a triumph with regards to meeting this lofty movie standard?
The comments here look almost identical to the comments for any mystery thriller on iMDB.
Madison's got journalisms.
Maybe she was familiar with the guy because he was investigating "on behalf of the families" for a while?
Know what makes this game look like a triumph with regards to meeting this lofty movie standard?
The comments here look almost identical to the comments for any mystery thriller on iMDB.
I don't know who the hell ever claimed (besides Sterling himself, and even then, as always, his claim is drenched in sticky sarcasm) that this game was/is supposed to be the "pinnacle of video game narrative".
Seriously, WTF? Even if Cage himself made that claim, who cares - creators and artists are either wildly egotistical or deeply humble. It is TOTALLY DISINGENUOUS to posit this game as the be-all end-all of narrative, and then, lo and behold, its flawed, like every other goddamned game in existence. The story tried some new things, some old things, and the total effect, was for me, a delightfully tense hybrid. I'm sick to f'n death of hearing about FPSs getting a blanket pass whenever they try to inject any narrative beyond "kill these hordes of enemies" - these Bioshocks, Half-Lifes, Halos, all get pure applause for AT LEAST TRYING to be inventive and twisty. But when Heavy Rain comes out, and tries to make the core of its gameplay and its story inventive and twisty, everyone takes a goddamn dump on it. And maybe its just more fanboy exclusive nonsense, but the game itself is brave. And haters love picking on what's new. None of this critical lack of the gamer's own ability to suspend their disbelief is going to hamper the sure-to-be glowing reviews of Reach, Gears 3, etc.
It makes me lament for the overall complexion of the gaming community when so many of you are just pettily xenophobic and closeminded toward experimental games that aren't limp-wristed rehashes of 6-bit tropes.
Seriously, WTF? Even if Cage himself made that claim, who cares - creators and artists are either wildly egotistical or deeply humble. It is TOTALLY DISINGENUOUS to posit this game as the be-all end-all of narrative, and then, lo and behold, its flawed, like every other goddamned game in existence. The story tried some new things, some old things, and the total effect, was for me, a delightfully tense hybrid. I'm sick to f'n death of hearing about FPSs getting a blanket pass whenever they try to inject any narrative beyond "kill these hordes of enemies" - these Bioshocks, Half-Lifes, Halos, all get pure applause for AT LEAST TRYING to be inventive and twisty. But when Heavy Rain comes out, and tries to make the core of its gameplay and its story inventive and twisty, everyone takes a goddamn dump on it. And maybe its just more fanboy exclusive nonsense, but the game itself is brave. And haters love picking on what's new. None of this critical lack of the gamer's own ability to suspend their disbelief is going to hamper the sure-to-be glowing reviews of Reach, Gears 3, etc.
It makes me lament for the overall complexion of the gaming community when so many of you are just pettily xenophobic and closeminded toward experimental games that aren't limp-wristed rehashes of 6-bit tropes.
I agree with Jim's evisceration of the plot, yet I still loved Heavy Rain because I wasn't fixated on the details of the story. The game's tagline is "How far would you go to save someone you love?" It is not "OMG who is the Origami Killer!?"
If your drive in playing Heavy Rain is to uncover the mystery of the Origami Killer and enjoy a good narrative, you will be disappointed. If you'd rather step into the roles of each character and try to answer the question posed in Heavy Rain's tagline, you will fall in love, too.
I have no problem with this article, but it's a shame people who haven't played the game are writing it off because of the weak plot. As if people suddenly care about plot in video games.
If your drive in playing Heavy Rain is to uncover the mystery of the Origami Killer and enjoy a good narrative, you will be disappointed. If you'd rather step into the roles of each character and try to answer the question posed in Heavy Rain's tagline, you will fall in love, too.
I have no problem with this article, but it's a shame people who haven't played the game are writing it off because of the weak plot. As if people suddenly care about plot in video games.
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