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Those nuns were, indeed, sexy.
Context + sexy might just end up like a cheesy porno in the end though, but we'll see.
Context + sexy might just end up like a cheesy porno in the end though, but we'll see.
Wtf. Why does some dumb shit like this need backstory? They just bowed their heads to the wishes of their publisher who probably feared receiving hate from some butt-hurt jackasses with no sense of humor. Something as stupid as sexy nuns with gunz does NOT need a deep, philosophical background. Oh jeez. Vidyergarmz
Give shit context, make shit matter more than just its face shock value. I can't see how anyone loses here.
At least they're not cutting them because of backlash. Although I've never played much Hitman beyond a demo (and the movie) and I really don't see how they fit it the series. Wouldn't PR0/L33T assassin's try to blend in? There's sexy (even in camo/incognito) and there's stupid (We're nuns in spandex!). I think it's stupid but is it fun stupid or pointless inclusion stupid? Time will tell.
A real assassin would be an overweight chain smoking Dollar General manager with a small silenced pistol under a newspaper.
A real assassin would be an overweight chain smoking Dollar General manager with a small silenced pistol under a newspaper.
It's kinda weird that they decided to flesh the characters out after the trailer; especially since the series has played around with religion in very tongue-in-cheek ways.
What I find sad and pathetic is IO Interactive will bend over backwards to apologize for the "sexy nuns" trailer yet they won't even return one of David Bateson's phone calls to explain WHY they don't want him returning as the voice for Agent 47. Assholes.
Still, can't deny the game looks great. Can't wait for November.
Still, can't deny the game looks great. Can't wait for November.
Did all those people boycott Machete and Naked Nuns with Big Guns?
Artistic expression - Dont like it? Fuck off it isnt for you.
Artistic expression - Dont like it? Fuck off it isnt for you.
hope they aren't wasting too much time on something they probably (rightly) didn't consider important.
i mentioned to my musician girlfriend the other day that blood money was what had inspired me to see Tosca. she rolled her eyes. in my experience most women still have zero interest in a game about violent murder, and most of the ones that might be interested don't mind a few nuns in PVC.
to be fair, sexy nuns probably wasn't a great idea for a hitman game, but the pathetically overblown response to the trailer (as well as every other videogame controversy this year) has totally evaporated any empathy i might have had for anyone that doesn't approve of this.
i'm sure it won't be long before we've collectively sucked all the fun out of videogames, and i don't want to be a part of that process.
i mentioned to my musician girlfriend the other day that blood money was what had inspired me to see Tosca. she rolled her eyes. in my experience most women still have zero interest in a game about violent murder, and most of the ones that might be interested don't mind a few nuns in PVC.
to be fair, sexy nuns probably wasn't a great idea for a hitman game, but the pathetically overblown response to the trailer (as well as every other videogame controversy this year) has totally evaporated any empathy i might have had for anyone that doesn't approve of this.
i'm sure it won't be long before we've collectively sucked all the fun out of videogames, and i don't want to be a part of that process.
@rocks
"What I find sad and pathetic is IO Interactive will bend over backwards to apologize for the "sexy nuns" trailer yet they won't even return one of David Bateson's phone calls to explain WHY they don't want him returning as the voice for Agent 47. Assholes. "
...? Why would they? It's not like he owns the character. I don't see the problem here?
"What I find sad and pathetic is IO Interactive will bend over backwards to apologize for the "sexy nuns" trailer yet they won't even return one of David Bateson's phone calls to explain WHY they don't want him returning as the voice for Agent 47. Assholes. "
...? Why would they? It's not like he owns the character. I don't see the problem here?
I guess that's the best reaction they could have done, but they still put BDSM ninja nuns in their game.
I just want them to change the outfits. Just have them inexplicably strip down to lycra fetish outfits in-game and everything is fine.
@Tristrix
Its fanboy obsession, they glom onto something so hard that they begin to write erotic fan fiction about it.
Im the say with that woman that yells at you when you walk into the ladies bathroom in the original Deus ex.
Its fanboy obsession, they glom onto something so hard that they begin to write erotic fan fiction about it.
Im the say with that woman that yells at you when you walk into the ladies bathroom in the original Deus ex.
Tristrix being an apologist as usual, hi trix.
See shit like this is the reason why games will never move forward in any meaningful way or reach that "art" pillar they seem so obsessed with, because no game developer will ever come out and flat out say, no screw off, that was just artistic expression. Game companies are so quick to back off from anything controversial, controversy helped quite a number of companies reach a lot of sales, rockstar and GTA springs to mind as a good example.
You have any idea how many faceless mooks 47 has killed? Many of them women I might add, but nope, some feminist girl got attacked by 4chan retards now this is a BIG issue. I guess 47 had killed leather clad men nobody would have said a thing.
See shit like this is the reason why games will never move forward in any meaningful way or reach that "art" pillar they seem so obsessed with, because no game developer will ever come out and flat out say, no screw off, that was just artistic expression. Game companies are so quick to back off from anything controversial, controversy helped quite a number of companies reach a lot of sales, rockstar and GTA springs to mind as a good example.
You have any idea how many faceless mooks 47 has killed? Many of them women I might add, but nope, some feminist girl got attacked by 4chan retards now this is a BIG issue. I guess 47 had killed leather clad men nobody would have said a thing.
@Tristrix - David Bateson has worked with IO Interactive since the very beginning of the Hitman series. Agent 47's character model is based on his appearance and is voiced by him. After years of work, IO Interactive doesn't just dump him but won't even explain WHY they don't want him back. It's pathetic.
If IO Interactive wants a new voice actor then fine but at least have the common balls to tell David Bateson over the phone.
@Themuad - Fanboy obsession? Eat me. How about having respect for people IO Interactive has worked with? Just as bad as how Konami originally acted toward Guy Cihi when they made the Silent Hill HD Collection.
If IO Interactive wants a new voice actor then fine but at least have the common balls to tell David Bateson over the phone.
@Themuad - Fanboy obsession? Eat me. How about having respect for people IO Interactive has worked with? Just as bad as how Konami originally acted toward Guy Cihi when they made the Silent Hill HD Collection.
Good. Designs that great should have a quality story behind them.
Also, not reading the comments because I'd rather play Sleeping Dogs.
Also, not reading the comments because I'd rather play Sleeping Dogs.
@DrRockso87
Sorry just ate. So exactly how were they disrespectful against him? I mean did they just say "fuck off we are getting a cheaper guy" or just telling them he was no good?
Did he even want to do it again?
Sorry just ate. So exactly how were they disrespectful against him? I mean did they just say "fuck off we are getting a cheaper guy" or just telling them he was no good?
Did he even want to do it again?
I dunno Rockso. I see where you're coming from to a certain extent but then again I don't. This guy didn't write the character or create the IP. He just did acting work on it. I don't see that he's really owed any kind of consultation, ya know? It was a working relationship that one party no longer wants to pursue. That seems pretty straight forward to me.
That said it doesn't make a whole lot of sense that they'd want to change the voice actor all of a sudden when the old one did so well but then again they changed Harley Quinn's voice actor in Arkham City and it was excellent. So ya know... best of luck to the new guy, amirite?
That said it doesn't make a whole lot of sense that they'd want to change the voice actor all of a sudden when the old one did so well but then again they changed Harley Quinn's voice actor in Arkham City and it was excellent. So ya know... best of luck to the new guy, amirite?
@ Themuad
i don't think they ever gave a reason, but considering he did want to do it and the fans loved him the chances are that IO will never come clean because the answer is likely to be something along the lines of: "the new guy has better mass market appeal", "the new guy is American and not English" or even "the new guy is the studio head's brother".
i'd forgotten about that whole thing. preordered anyway, but i'm still sad.
i don't think they ever gave a reason, but considering he did want to do it and the fans loved him the chances are that IO will never come clean because the answer is likely to be something along the lines of: "the new guy has better mass market appeal", "the new guy is American and not English" or even "the new guy is the studio head's brother".
i'd forgotten about that whole thing. preordered anyway, but i'm still sad.
@Themuad - From what I've read, yes, he did want to return. He said that he auditioned for the role (even though he was the actor in the last four games but nevermind), was told he received the part, and then nothing. According to him, IO Interactive would not return his calls at all. Sad really.
@DrRockso
Yeah, it was dick. What does that have to do with this, though? Besides that, casting decisions are one of those things that I just don't think we have a leg to stand on when it comes to demands. It's just not our decision to make (most of the time. I'm looking at you, all white cast of Akira). Case in point:
Also, the "artistic expression" argument doesn't hold much water. You're free to express yourself, people are free to react the way they'd like, and you're free to react to the reaction as you see fit. Telling people their freedom to react is less valid than another's freedom to express themselves undermines the whole premise of both. The whole point of artistic expression is to make people feel something, you don't get to choose what those people feel, and creating a spectrum of feelings is often a driving force behind it.
Yeah, it was dick. What does that have to do with this, though? Besides that, casting decisions are one of those things that I just don't think we have a leg to stand on when it comes to demands. It's just not our decision to make (most of the time. I'm looking at you, all white cast of Akira). Case in point:
Also, the "artistic expression" argument doesn't hold much water. You're free to express yourself, people are free to react the way they'd like, and you're free to react to the reaction as you see fit. Telling people their freedom to react is less valid than another's freedom to express themselves undermines the whole premise of both. The whole point of artistic expression is to make people feel something, you don't get to choose what those people feel, and creating a spectrum of feelings is often a driving force behind it.
@Tristrix - You have a point. For all I know, David Bateson could've left on a sour note with the developers but from the sounds of it, he wanted to return for the role but they didn't want him. Still, that's fine. I'm very disappointed to hear that but I'll live. However, I just think they should've given him some respect by at least explaining to him why they don't want him to return.
But yeah. I'm still interested in the game. Watching the E3 demos, it looks phenomenal. Have it pre-ordered but I'm still annoyed with how IO Interactive handled it.
But yeah. Maybe the new voice actor will be better. I don't know. I haven't even heard him yet (seriously, I haven't seen one trailer where he utters a word).
But yeah. I'm still interested in the game. Watching the E3 demos, it looks phenomenal. Have it pre-ordered but I'm still annoyed with how IO Interactive handled it.
But yeah. Maybe the new voice actor will be better. I don't know. I haven't even heard him yet (seriously, I haven't seen one trailer where he utters a word).
There is absolutely no way they can make latex-wearing nun assassins into something that isn't really, really, really dumb.
"But yeah. Maybe the new voice actor will be better. I don't know. I haven't even heard him yet (seriously, I haven't seen one trailer where he utters a word)."
Maybe they're gonna go all Gordon Freeman with him? *shrug*
Maybe they're gonna go all Gordon Freeman with him? *shrug*
they were initially trying to comment on the pent up rage and fury that catholic women feel towards the church, which tries to suppress and silence them. YEAH RIGHT THEY WERE HOT GIRLS WITH GUNS ALDNSIFHBSIFBSDN. IT WAS MINDLESS STUPIDITY. Now if a game tackled the issue with a level of maturity and still made it fun, that would be cool. But this.... no. It was just stupid Hollywood action crap.
1.) I had no problem with the trailer.
2.) I don't see why adding depth to a cool stylistic trailer is a bad thing. I definitely don't see how it's a bad thing.
3.) I don't think the controversy a "feminist" thing. I think a lot of people just found it too absurd and unfitting to the serious dark tone of the series. If someone did simply have the simplistic idea of "women shouldn't be hurt in games" as some strawman argument fans like to suggest, then obviously those people have never played any of the other Hitman games. You can kill women by the dozens in there. Hell, Contracts had a Briney Spears analogue hanging dead from a stalkers ceiling dripping blood.
It's odd that the company is actually handling a controversy in a decent way (giving it context rather than simply avoiding it) and yet the people who seem so terrified of their hobby being threatened are finding a way to bitch about it.
2.) I don't see why adding depth to a cool stylistic trailer is a bad thing. I definitely don't see how it's a bad thing.
3.) I don't think the controversy a "feminist" thing. I think a lot of people just found it too absurd and unfitting to the serious dark tone of the series. If someone did simply have the simplistic idea of "women shouldn't be hurt in games" as some strawman argument fans like to suggest, then obviously those people have never played any of the other Hitman games. You can kill women by the dozens in there. Hell, Contracts had a Briney Spears analogue hanging dead from a stalkers ceiling dripping blood.
It's odd that the company is actually handling a controversy in a decent way (giving it context rather than simply avoiding it) and yet the people who seem so terrified of their hobby being threatened are finding a way to bitch about it.
I'm not sure it's really an issue of context so much as tone. You've got these characters that look like they should be in some silly, ironic, exploitation, grindhouse type of story, but shoehorned in this trailer that's otherwise seems to be presented as a gritty, dour, serious piece of storytelling. Either they don't realize how stupid these characters look, or they have no idea how to achieve a tone appropriate for what they're trying to do. Coming to the conclusion that it's an issue of context leads me to believe that it's the former.
Their response reads like, "If we knew that blatant mysogony wasn't cool, we woulda made a different trailer!"
The voice acting could all have been on the corperate level for all we know. Wouldant be rare for creative to get ordered around would it.
@Qreg:
It's not the killing of women in and of itself. The actual killing is the least of the trailer's problems. As you said yourself, women were killed in the series before. And you'll notice there was no outrage over this. Here's why:
The problem with this particular case is that the nuns arrive dressed like nuns, then remove their clothing to reveal high heels and fetishistic outfits that have about as much practical application as the napkin-sized "armor" female characters tipically use in RPG games. The camera, of course, promptly focuses on tits and ass. It's shameless sexual objectification in a series that is not known to be (too) campy or self-aware in tone, like SAINTS ROW is.
What if these were killer priests? Do you think they'd take off their robes to reveal gimp suits? A thong? Do you think they'd even take their robes off at all?
If these killer nuns (or nunssassins as I like to call them) wore sensible combat gear, I'd have no problem with this trailer. They'd be a team of dangerous nun-themed assassins.
Instead, they're designed to be sexually arousing to the point they seem too distracted showing off to the camera to actually notice Agent 47 circling around them. And THEN they're brutally killed. There's not even any attempt at a logical narrative -- 47 just pretty much teleports behind them so they can go from the sex to the violence quicker.
That's the problem. And that the nunssassins are actually part of the fucking game makes me bury my face in my hands. How are the developers going to justify their outfits? "Oh, they dress like that to take advantage of the male libido, distracting their enemies with sexiness as they come in for the kill." A tactic that is easily thwarted by sending a gay assassin after them.
It's not the killing of women in and of itself. The actual killing is the least of the trailer's problems. As you said yourself, women were killed in the series before. And you'll notice there was no outrage over this. Here's why:
The problem with this particular case is that the nuns arrive dressed like nuns, then remove their clothing to reveal high heels and fetishistic outfits that have about as much practical application as the napkin-sized "armor" female characters tipically use in RPG games. The camera, of course, promptly focuses on tits and ass. It's shameless sexual objectification in a series that is not known to be (too) campy or self-aware in tone, like SAINTS ROW is.
What if these were killer priests? Do you think they'd take off their robes to reveal gimp suits? A thong? Do you think they'd even take their robes off at all?
If these killer nuns (or nunssassins as I like to call them) wore sensible combat gear, I'd have no problem with this trailer. They'd be a team of dangerous nun-themed assassins.
Instead, they're designed to be sexually arousing to the point they seem too distracted showing off to the camera to actually notice Agent 47 circling around them. And THEN they're brutally killed. There's not even any attempt at a logical narrative -- 47 just pretty much teleports behind them so they can go from the sex to the violence quicker.
That's the problem. And that the nunssassins are actually part of the fucking game makes me bury my face in my hands. How are the developers going to justify their outfits? "Oh, they dress like that to take advantage of the male libido, distracting their enemies with sexiness as they come in for the kill." A tactic that is easily thwarted by sending a gay assassin after them.
In all honesty, I don't find anything attractive about those nuns, I'm probably just going to laugh at the absurdity of punching latex-wearing whore nun assassins in the face.
@andre navarro
Getting hung up over an outfit is ridiculous though, not everything a fictional character wears has to have some sort of purpose or meaningful function. Movies do it all the time. Like Resident Evil, Underworld, or La Femme Nikita. It's not like these are the first killer nuns to ever be conceived in the name of fiction.
@alan argentina
Regarding artistic expression: It isnt really an argument. Nothing is wrong with reacting negatively to art, but wanting to ban it or change it is where the problem comes in. Just like the whole Howard Stern problem, some people didnt like what he was saying and that's fine...but then they wanted to kick him off radio or change his whole program around when they could've simply changed the station.
Getting hung up over an outfit is ridiculous though, not everything a fictional character wears has to have some sort of purpose or meaningful function. Movies do it all the time. Like Resident Evil, Underworld, or La Femme Nikita. It's not like these are the first killer nuns to ever be conceived in the name of fiction.
@alan argentina
Regarding artistic expression: It isnt really an argument. Nothing is wrong with reacting negatively to art, but wanting to ban it or change it is where the problem comes in. Just like the whole Howard Stern problem, some people didnt like what he was saying and that's fine...but then they wanted to kick him off radio or change his whole program around when they could've simply changed the station.
@Smo5000 - The outfits DO have a purpose in the HITMAN: ABSOLUTION trailer. One that defies all logic in the name of sexual objectification. Something that, if I remember correctly, LA FEMME NIKITA doesn't resort to (at least not as its primary focus). And RESIDENT EVIL and UNDERWORLD have very little to do with the HITMAN series. Also, I think that in both of these films, the female characters at least had POCKETS.
@andre navarro
La Femme Nikita is an assassin that uses sex to kill her targets, these characters were pretty much made to be Nikita but with nun outfits. I'm really not understanding your logic here. Nun assassins in a game are bad because sexual objectification is their primary focus but not Nikita because sexual objectification is NOT her primary focus?? okay...I can't agree with that confusing logic, my part of the conversation ends here.
La Femme Nikita is an assassin that uses sex to kill her targets, these characters were pretty much made to be Nikita but with nun outfits. I'm really not understanding your logic here. Nun assassins in a game are bad because sexual objectification is their primary focus but not Nikita because sexual objectification is NOT her primary focus?? okay...I can't agree with that confusing logic, my part of the conversation ends here.
@Smo
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. You can't argue against a reaction to something by saying "shut up, they have the right to express themselves". It's not an argument at all, it just looks like one until you think about it for a split second, realize it's insane, and attempt to clean the exploded brain off your computer screen.
//
I think an important issue here is the fact that this was probably another game completely misrepresented by its marketing. From what I've read, the game's tone isn't particularly well represented by the trailer that sought to set it. This kind of thing seems to be happening a lot lately, and although not every misrepresentation ends up in a shitstorm (Spec Ops: The Line, for example), many of them have. It seemed to be a huge issue at E3 this year, as so many games seemed to want to out-controversy/gore each other, only to have those games described as very different by the people who got some up close time with them.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. You can't argue against a reaction to something by saying "shut up, they have the right to express themselves". It's not an argument at all, it just looks like one until you think about it for a split second, realize it's insane, and attempt to clean the exploded brain off your computer screen.
//
I think an important issue here is the fact that this was probably another game completely misrepresented by its marketing. From what I've read, the game's tone isn't particularly well represented by the trailer that sought to set it. This kind of thing seems to be happening a lot lately, and although not every misrepresentation ends up in a shitstorm (Spec Ops: The Line, for example), many of them have. It seemed to be a huge issue at E3 this year, as so many games seemed to want to out-controversy/gore each other, only to have those games described as very different by the people who got some up close time with them.
You jackasses are missing the most important thing. Lindsay Lohan is NOT one of the nuns. Now, aren't you fucking happy?
Machete.
Gross.
Machete.
Gross.
@alan
"I think an important issue here is the fact that this was probably another game completely misrepresented by its marketing."
That's true of every Hitman game ever made though Alan. The feel of a Hitman game would come across very poorly in marketing and trailers. You just can't really capture the cerebral nature of Hitman's gameplay while simultaneously being attention-grabbing.
Thus every Hitman game features 47 shooting the fuck out of everything that moves and gamers scream OH NO THEY FUCKED UP HITMAN DOOOOOOOOOM and then the game comes out and it's a Hitman game, sure enough. That's just how it's going to be until someone figures out how to make an eye-catching, heart-pounding trailer featuring a guy quietly sneaking around in someone else's clothes.
"I think an important issue here is the fact that this was probably another game completely misrepresented by its marketing."
That's true of every Hitman game ever made though Alan. The feel of a Hitman game would come across very poorly in marketing and trailers. You just can't really capture the cerebral nature of Hitman's gameplay while simultaneously being attention-grabbing.
Thus every Hitman game features 47 shooting the fuck out of everything that moves and gamers scream OH NO THEY FUCKED UP HITMAN DOOOOOOOOOM and then the game comes out and it's a Hitman game, sure enough. That's just how it's going to be until someone figures out how to make an eye-catching, heart-pounding trailer featuring a guy quietly sneaking around in someone else's clothes.
@Tris
You could definitely be right, I can't say I have any real experience with the franchise's past marketing. After reading a bunch of previews, though, I can understand why eyebrows would be cocked.
Maybe the issue is how trailers are made to begin with, or the archetype for how marketing "should" be. It was beyond egregious at this past E3 how many games had distinctly different tones from the tones set by their marketing. Maybe marketing departments would represent their games much more accurately if the notion that trailers must always be primarily visual feasts was abandoned. Dunno, but it's something to think about.
Honestly, it's why I've always loved GTA's marketing. In-game footage of shit happening in the game that you could make happen in the game yourself.
You could definitely be right, I can't say I have any real experience with the franchise's past marketing. After reading a bunch of previews, though, I can understand why eyebrows would be cocked.
Maybe the issue is how trailers are made to begin with, or the archetype for how marketing "should" be. It was beyond egregious at this past E3 how many games had distinctly different tones from the tones set by their marketing. Maybe marketing departments would represent their games much more accurately if the notion that trailers must always be primarily visual feasts was abandoned. Dunno, but it's something to think about.
Honestly, it's why I've always loved GTA's marketing. In-game footage of shit happening in the game that you could make happen in the game yourself.
Sigh.. its like no one saw Sucker Punch (I guess for good reason), or really a whole backlog of crazy asian movies that have pretty much the same visual/tonal sense.
Either way, its throwaway entertainment.. Really don't see how it'll matter unless its the only thing we end up throwing in a time capsule.
Vidyagarms I guess.
Either way, its throwaway entertainment.. Really don't see how it'll matter unless its the only thing we end up throwing in a time capsule.
Vidyagarms I guess.
@Smoo5000
Yeah, seriously.. I guess we've forgotten exploit films exist.. Naked Nuns with Big Guns is a pretty great movie till it just..ends.. out of no where.
I'm almost ready for there to be an exploitation movement in gaming (And no, I don't think there's been one already.. We've barely scratched the surface of what people think is exploitive.), people need to start letting go a little.
Yeah, seriously.. I guess we've forgotten exploit films exist.. Naked Nuns with Big Guns is a pretty great movie till it just..ends.. out of no where.
I'm almost ready for there to be an exploitation movement in gaming (And no, I don't think there's been one already.. We've barely scratched the surface of what people think is exploitive.), people need to start letting go a little.
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