Here's a Radical idea: just say no to used games

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Home Gaming Trends

12:33 AM on 10.29.2007, Gameboi

96 comments | 24294 views

Here's a Radical idea: just say no to used games photo

#Free Radical #Gaming Trends

If you happen to be the type of person who prefers the used game market in lieu of paying full price for your next fix in what amounts to an already expensive hobby, then Free Radical's David Braben has a few choice words for you. While you might be saving yourself some change, David wants you to know that developers are ending up on the short end of the stick when it comes to the second-hand gaming market. While absurd to most of us, his logic behind this is simple. Developers only get paid once for every title released, while retailers get 100% of the profits for themselves, every time a used game changes hands.

“Clearly from the developer and publisher point of view, the second-hand market is a real problem. The shops are essentially defrauding the rest of the industry by this practice, whether they intend it or not. It also means that while newly released games do still sell well, it is only a matter of a month or so before pre-owned stock often saturates the channel – with a single copy rumored to go around the sale/return/sale loop ten or more times – amounting effectively, to rental.”

Now I'll be the first person to scoff at how these specialty stores sell used games for just under the price of a sealed copy while giving you pennies on the dollar for trade-ins, but the thought of giving a "cut" back to developer/publishers (which is more or less what is being alluded to) sounds more like something out a Mafia novel. Best of all, just who exactly is going to pay for the difference? The customer, of course.

This brings to mind a few interesting questions: Are we looking at a future where all games will go the way of the MMO and require individual keys to unlock them each time they change hands? Does this give more ammunition to electronic distribution, and does it hasten the death knell of the already fragile rental market? Most of all, is anybody stopping them from selling used games? If this is such a big issue, then why not throw their hat in the mix, and offer us an incentive to sell our games back to them.

[Via MCV]

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94 comments | showing # 1 to 50

Clockwork

If I buy an older game, I'll almost always get a used one but you make some real good points here. But if they actualy DO do that with the individual keys..."Hello 1984!"

deiga-the-semivaliant

I always try to encourage people to buy new...

It always made me sick how GameStop had us hawk up the sale of used titles, only because they know they'll receive every cent and not have to give any of it to the people who worked on it. Buying used is a great way to find discontinued or rare games, but if possible, people should just spend the extra five bucks and give back to the developers.

vandamguy

I always buy new when possible. Like deiga said, sometimes its hard to find a new copy of ikaruga for GC, so I have to buy that used.

Not to mention, the used copies are always scratched the fuck up and never work.

crveck

there were talks of sony doing this with the blu ray discs. I think it might be better for these software companies to make deals with the retailers that they (the retailers) will give the developrs some of that profit from used games, make it part of their contract to get new games. Basically,no used games profits, then no get first dibs on the new games coming out.

kariomart

Why does this dude even bitch about it? Soon enough we'll all be using something like Steam and physical copies will be a thing of the past.

falinter

i dont think i have ever bought anything from gamestop. if i buy used i buy directly from other people. its cheaper and i would rather give to some shmuck on ebay than some shmuck with a 100 dollar suit and a cuban cigar sitting in his corporate palace.

RskimB

In general I avoid used copies unless its older games that are harder to find.

ZekeThePlumber

I usually make it a point to buy new unless the game I'm looking for is no longer stocked new. Its not so much of a courtesy as it is a need. I've been looking for a copy of ICO at every videogame store I've walked into for the past six months and have yet to find one, hell if I'd ever find it still wrapped in plastic sitting on a Gamestop shelf.

Mustin

Strangely enough, it's the guy on eBay that has the suit and the cuban cigar. Anyone who's met a game developer knows they're just nerds.

Yes, physical copies will be things of the past soon enough.

This is also a big problem for CDs but they made it through. Everyone will manage in the end.

Then, when everyone's not looking?

...in the butt.

El Fajitas

I seriously get peeved with the whole digital distribution thing. Yeah it will work...Only in the U.S., Western Europe, and Japan.
Guess what market comes after them? Mexico. Yes, I'm shure developers want to cut off that entire market. It may not be the most anti-piracy one, yes, but they are still makin' money.
Until the world enjoys an inexhaustible series of tubes from sea to shining sea to shining sea, leave your dreams of digital delivery with Steam and your future self.

Spykron

im so totally cheap. i dont usually buy games until they are like 15 bucks. i am patient. it takes a special game (starcraft 2) to make me want it the day it comes out.

Upgrayedd

...amounting effectively, to rental."

So, legal, within distribution rights, and the only way many people will ever play it?

Necros

Used games are worth it when they're priced significantly lower than new games. Otherwise, I'll stick with new games or grabbing stuff off eBay or Goozex.

automagV

I buy used almost exclusively. I'm a starving college student with an unhealthy addiction to games and if I can't get it at a discount I won't be getting it at all. If a publisher or developer want's to buy my old games so I can afford something new, i'll give it a shot. It's never going to happen, but i'm willing to do it. Realistically, many $60 games are just not worth it. Crap content is crap content no matter how many man hours went into it. On the other hand a game like Mass Effect will have me in line to get the LE version on day one. It's a rare thing when a game delivers and I think this one will. In this case I will pay more than full price for all the frills. In ever other case i'm pinching my pennies.

automagV

Mr Jonson

why do gamestop used? do ebay used :)

Milhouse

Thanks Destructoid for making me discover Goozex. Yes, free plug for them but they sure have a great system for used games fans like me.

TheBrain

Games cost way too much. The used DVD market is piddling because it doesn't cost that much to pick up a DVD new as opposed to used. Granted, you typically only save $5 when buying a game used, but when that title drops in price 9 months down the road, that savings from buying used goes up considerably. A title that is still rocking $60 at slow on the uptake retailers like Walmart, Kmart, and Target can sometimes be purchased for a third that price at a used games store.

Also, get over it Publishers.

Every market has used products. Imagine the car market without used cars. Sure, that'll happen.

vandamguy

@automagV (with a side order of greif): if you want to buy used all the time to save money, that's really fine.
The problem that Gameboi is trying to point out with his article is that places like Blockbuster and Gamestop are selling the same game 10 times over, making $500~, and only paying the developers of the game the first time (X number of dollars.. lets say 20). If this trend kept its pace, developers would only be able to produce a limited amount of copies for the game, and then we would be lined up around the block waiting for some shmuck to finish playing, sell it back to Gamestop so they can sell it to us.

What you need to do, to stop this downward spiral, is just take the fucking middleman out. New game costs 60. Used copy at Gamestop costs 50. Trade in CREDIT for the game is 20. You can see who these (reasonable) numbers favour.
Instead of buying used games from gamestop, give your XX bucks (somewhere between 50 and 20 from my above example) to a friend for his used game. You get your cheap used game, he gets CASH (for crack), And gamestop doesnt.

naia-the-gamer

I feel the pain of automagV and vandamguy. I'm poor, and I can't buy games as soon as they come out, so when I try to get them I can only find them used. Not everyone can buy a game within the first week it comes out.

I have friends that work in the video game industry and I appreciate the hard work they do, but what are we as consumers supposed to do?

/Devils Advocate

CRA

^ agree 100%

Sorry, If I can save even $5 bucks on a game when I should be buying groceries, I will :)

CountingConflict

If publishers weren't trying to constantly rape the consumer, I might be a little more empathetic to the industry. It seems to me like the problem lies with the publishers gaining most of the profit that the developer is entitled to. Don't push this on the consumer as if we are the criminals here. They are lucky we are willing to play 7 dollars for a fucking piece of horse armor. Quit crying and develop a new distribution method. Steam is the perfect example of how developers can bypass the publishing pitfalls.

The consumer doesn't need a change in behavior as much as the industry needs a change that matches developing technology.

Wedge

We need direct content feeds and games that aren't overpriced by running through a cocktarded retail chain if this is going to change. Steam is good, but they are still WAY overpriced considering they are bypassing the entire publisher->retail chain of command. The only thing that was ever worth buying off it is the Orange Box. A lot of publishers/devs also sell their games direct off their website, but again, it's still full retail price.

Games cost too much for people to afford all they want these days. Not to mention all the old games youl'd want to pick up you can't get at retail anymore. Having publishers take back their old games to resell is actually a pretty cool idea.

As for used games, get them off Goozex, or just pirate them outright, rather than get them from Gamestop. Yes stealing games is BETTER for the industry than supporting Gamestop. You're not helping it, but at least you aren't hurting it at that point. And above all else NEVER trade in your games to a Gamestop. EVER.

Mxyzptlk

I only pick up used games when they're not available anymore new. And yup, you get boned completely on trade-ins, which is why I never bother to do it anymore. I'll either give a game I don't want anymore to a friend, or put it in storage.

Evan_Poland

Heres an idea.
Run all games in a steam style fashion, buy your keys direct from the developers, which means a bigger cut for them OR cheaper prices for us,(think of the orange box, basically 1 game 2 expansions 1 extra teaser AND a full multiplayer game for $50, which in Aus is about half price for launch date games). What with the ramping up of speed + quota of the internets it barely hurts to download a game these days.

Heres another idea: don't like the internet buying system above? Go into a shop like we would now, and buy the key through them, for a small markup they could burn a DVD for you with the content on it, or even transfer it to a hard-drive you brought with you!. ahh the future smells sweeter for gamers the world over.

uptonogood

who care if the games from used places are slightly below or a lot below the price of retail; the point of the dude's bitching is that he's complaining about potential money not going his way. big freaking deal. the physical property has already been sold and he's gotten is pound of flesh. once that's happened, he has no control over it and nor should he. the property is in private hands now.

and why would or should we ever give up physical media? that's one more level of control we have over what we've rightfully bought. once you move to streaming, we no longer have control. as much as some of you might hate the thought of physical and social interaction with people in the real world, it's a necessity that probably shouldn't be done away.

as for the used gaming issue, what you're actually paying for isn't the physical media, it's what's on it, right? what fucking idiot collects used games for their pristine packaging? that's pretty lame.

Samit Sarkar

I�ll never forget going to Funcoland back in the day to trade in all my Genesis games to try and see how much I could get for a PS1 game. I almost cried when I saw prices like $0.70 come up on the register for Aladdin and like $0.30 for Madden NFL �96. But I buy all my games new...granted, I may wait for a few months for the price to drop (I never bought Black until it became a PS2 Greatest Hits title), but I�ll still buy it new, mostly because I don�t want to deal with the thought of the disc not working, or the instruction manual being absent, or the case being fucked up (yeah, I know, who cares about those last two things? Well, I do!)

A New Challenger

Gamasutra had a feature just about a year ago asking game developers themselves whether they buy used or new games.

skankerzero

I'm a developer, I buy new games, but I don't turn away used games either.

There are tons of games out there that just aren't worth their new price. I know, I made a couple of them.

I have an interesting view on the future of our industry, and it's not very bright. Somethings going to give when the consumer is tired of paying 70 bucks for disappointing game after disappointing game.

Hamza CTZ Aziz

Buying used books, used DVDs and CDs does nothing for those industries either but it still happens. What about the rental industry? They make 100% of the profits. I can understand them being mad about it, but this is the used market. What they are asking is for more money on the games. People already paid the $60 for the game and they got the money from that sale. Now they want a cut of the $50 that used game will sell back for? And if that happens, this will just be like the brand new market all over again. GameStop or whoever will have to pay less than they already do and/or jack up the price even more to the point where it doesn't make sense to purchase the used game over the new games price.

Boolean

In most cases? Screw 'em. Stop boning consumers up the ass before turning around and asking them for favours.

On the other hand, I felt guilty when the only copy of Psychonauts was a second hand copy. I felt like mailing $40 to Tim Schafer.

allisonaxe

I like having shiny new copies of things that I like, but..... if a game is older, or if its significantly cheaper (not that lame $5 discount of most used games at gamestop) then, as long as the disc is in good condition, I don't mind buying used.

it really pisses me off that I'm not "buying" games anymore, but rather, just a license to play said-games... especially if there's a physical media, in a box, with a manual, on my shelf.

amerijapoxicano

For realz, you guys keep mentioning eBay. I think Craigslist.org is a much better option, if you live in a big city, that is. I sold two xbox controllers and a headset for a damn good price for the lucky guy, but it's more than I would have gotten off of GameStop and less hassle than eBay. The guy came over and picked them up in person; paid cash-money, baby! I'm in Japan now, but I keep an eye open on the site for when I return to Chicago for a good deal on video games and other goods.

Rainbowblack

I normally try to buy new. But once in a while you see a used game that you know you shouldn't have to pay full price for. You kinda want it. but 60$ pushes it. Games are expensive, and alot of them don't warrant a 60$ pricetag. So no i'll stick to buying them used once their value goes down. Why would I pay 60$ for King Kong the game? but I see it for 15$ and it';s a different story.

Then there are some used that can't be avoided.my Recent Purchase of ICO and Jade empire. nobody sells brand new Xbox games anymore

LordGloom

I'm sorry, but frankly, David Braben needs to suck it up. There's no saying that trading-in used games or buying used games can't benefit the industry. What if someone trades in, say, his Gamecube Mario's for a new shiny copy of UR MR GAY? What if someone who buys that Super Mario Sunshine wants to play more of the 3D Mario's goes home and downloads Super Mario 64? I hate the gigantic evil corporations as much as the next person, but I think it's just sour grapes.

DrShotgunMD

Here's an idea: Don't charge games $60, and then there will be no reason to buy games used.

Anemone

My thought would be that they should focus on making games that people don't want to sell. I don't often buy used games barring a good deal or rarity issues, but I often forego playing many games that I'm slightly interested in due to the fact that they cost too much to justify buying for just a few hours of gameplay. I don't rent games and I never sell games back (excluding trading in the GC RE:4 for a Wii version.)
@Hamza CTZ Aziz-
Half of the time what you say is already true... Most new games are $50 or 55 used. It's worth $5 more to get a copy that's pristine. The worst part is that you know that they only gave the person $20 for the game. On some titles, like old PS2 greatest hits titles, they sell the used version for $2 under the price of a new game. >_<

BlackbeardonGuitar

The used market would be alot weaker if prices wernt so high to begin with. Fucking whiny publishers. Making games is like making art, and I say if you're in it 100% for the money than get a different career. It's not that I don't think they should be paid, but my friend is a developer for a company that isn't even that high on the developing chain as it were and he still makes plenty, let alone the Bungie's of the world. So fuck this guy.

KyleGamgee

I really like the idea of the Developers selling their own games for less that retail.. They're obviously avoiding some overhead or whatever. They make more on the game, and for the consumer it costs less that the used copy at the chain store.

Good Article. Interesting points. Much better than what I came up with.

Aldoogie

everything will be downloadable in the somewhat near future anyhow, with the exception of things like cinnamon toast crunch which you will still have to purchase in a box.

DrXym

Meanwhile some house builder complains that people sell and buy used houses rather than build new ones. See also cars, books, boats - anything.

If developers really want people to forfeit their right to trade / buy titles, they'd better start dropping the prices of the downloadable versions of their games. Sell the downloadable game for $35 and the physical game for $50, then let the consumer decide which format they wish to buy based on the strengths and weaknesses of each format.

DOOM

The prophet margin is so low when you sell new retail games, the only way for a store to make money is by selling used!

razerangel

haha gotta love the wigga humour. It does raise an interesting point, the fact no matter what you buy be it first or second or 23rd hand, you get shafted. well and truly shafted. I seriously think publishers and developers should lower the price of their games to last gen prices and that way they would screw over the second hand market thus gaining more profits from the gullible consumer. Although this would cause the second hand market to reduce it prices but it would be a smart move because to retain the big profits places like game, gamestation and gamestop would have to reduce how much they pay out originaly for the games and people would get tired of being given about �2 for a nearly new game. Plus it would mean cheaper brand new games which is always a bonus!

JACK of No Trades

Physical media will soon be obsoleted. I Hate buying used games. It never feels the same. I love it when you buy a brand new wrapped up game with the that new case and disc smell. Fuck GStop.

Ryro

Call the wahhhmbulance. You get the right of first sale. After that, if the game is shit, it goes on the used market. No whining about no one buying Time Splitters, a several year-old game, brand new for 49.99. Gahd...

Scypher

Is the "prophet margin" like, the difference between what you would pay for a game and what Jesus would pay for a game?

Because I'm pretty sure that dude is willing to make some sacrifices, you know.

Ichigo Style

I absoloutely abhore used games, plain and simple, the idea alone is a breading ground for trouble. I say this as a former employee of Gamestop.

At Gamestop, I got to know two or three police officers VERY well. Why you ask? Because of the lewd amount of STOLEN media that the store received, usually for drug money or the other occasional illegal dealings. Occasionally you would get a legitimate person trading in for cash, but over half of the time I was dealing with someone with stolen goods, and trust me. I don't live in the boonies. What exactly is Gamestop's stance on this? Keep taking it. As stated in the article, Gamestop makes a massacre on used goods, taking in games for a mere fraction of what they sell them for. The company also trains its employees to push used games over new, especially during the holidays (C'mon, who wants to receive a smegging used game for Christmas?)

On top of that, the company progressively pushes harder and harder for employees to jump through hoops and keep up with subscriptions, as well as reservations (Hai! Give us your $5. . . you get this nice piece of paper and we invest your money nom-nom-nom. Complete bullshit.) The company is honestly building a kitten murdering plant, I saw the schematics.

Just don't buy used games. Your money deserves to go to the people who worked hard to build you the software, not the douche-fags at Gamestop who have made a business from selling opened new (which always made me laugh a little, and die inside. . .) and used games. I understand that people don't have money, trust me- I'm a college student so I know what it feels like to be piss poor, but I'd rather be piss poor and spend an extra $5 on a game, because I know that chances are that the used copy of that brand new game is stolen.

Inexile

first i d0ont know where you guys are buying your used games , but i am paying approx $5.00 for the game , not $5.00 less and its not months after the release its weeks.

2nd being a canadian were shafted right off the start with buying new games , with our dollar value hovering near US dollars now were still paying $10+ bucks higher then US prices , and dont even get me started on Books and gaming magazines.

3rd when a company that creates a game releases it they have already been paid , its the publisher thats losing out on the selling of used games , companys such as EA , like they need my $60.00 bucks ($80.00 in Canada), if they want our bucks for a new game stop putting it in packages with oversized boxes , and 14 pounds of advertising ,a life size map of azeroth , and 40 14 day membershps to try their game for free.

lower the amount they spend on the advertising and the games will go down , after all when i get a new game home i tear into it like a fat kid on a smartie and the box often sits on the floor being stepped on repeatedly until its non existant

Tremulant

I work at a used game store in a poor region of the UK and if it wasn't for Used turnover we would literally go bust, and as the secondary market brand leader I dont think most game developers would like it if we were forced to shut our doors.

rant\
And Reaprar, ffs you cant 1 minute BITCH about how Gamestation wont take in your junk, then moan that you have found used "promo" copies of games on the shelf, the stock we have on the shelves is USED which means it has been taken in for cash/credit previously in that store. We take in anything that isnt damaged or missing something, thats how promo copies end up on the shelves, if they still fecking work then stop blubbering like a vagina.
/rant

The fact that in the UK the two market leaders in specialised video games are GAME and GAMESTATION make MOST of thier week by week turnover through the used medium, it is ridulous to suggest forcing people to never be able to sell thier own items on or buy them second hand, this would crush the biggest retail video game brands in Britain.

Why dont the developers just campaign to make games cheaper rather than the stupid prices they are currently at?

PurpmaN

Maybe if the cost the retailers pay on these new games were higher, they could turn a profit...however with retailers making next to nothing selling NEW, why not sell used too?

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