You can't say anything bad about Street Fighter IV in this day and age. Believe me, I've tried. It's almost as bad as saying how rich you are and how many cars and houses you have in the middle of this economic downturn. Hell, it's worse to gamers. I've let it go, but Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix chief designer David Sirlin hasn't.
He goes off on his blog. It's long. Here's just a taste of what he dosen't like, some of which I agree with:
- you see the name before a match, and can drop
- random isn't really random, and not double blind
- input delay online
- air hits are floaty
- crazy button input requirements
"When I read about the 100/100 scores, I see again and again how 'simple and elegant' the game is," he rants. "Two super meters, a 3-tier focus attack system, and all the complications above seem to fly in the face of that."
And he isn't feeling the "casual" label:
"Even more though, I hear how 'casual friendly' it is."
He continues: "Qcf x 2 +PPP all the time, extra button presses to throw, extra button presses to roman cancel, and many, many extremely difficult link combos work in concert to create that impenetrable wall of execution between you and the actual game (the interaction between you and your opponent). I wish we could get rid of all this stuff and focus more on the gameplay itself. "
Are you with Sirlin on any of this? I think Street Fighter IV is a great game, just not the end-all title that some have made it out to be. On the other hand, I think it's way better than Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix. Just sayin'.
[Via OXM]
Contest:
10:00 AM on 02.25.2009
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i don't see how difficult combos add fun to gameplay.
The only wish I had was that you couldnt see who your opponent was picking while playing online.
Seth on "Easiest" can still need an effort to actually beat him. The instant hit, non blockable, spinning pile driver is broken game design imho.
Even so i still think its a great game. But "simple" and "casual friendly" it is not.
Now, I love oldschool fighting games as much as the next guy. And I am far from saying SFIV is perfection incarnate. However, I don't think I'm alone in saying that Capcom's newest gem achieved exactly what it set out to do. The game strikes a balance between the broad appeal of 2 and the technical maze of the more recent SF titles. The focus attacks are far easier to execute than a parry in SF3, and the two special meters that are the same for every character are alot less confusing to deal with than the bevy of options available in the last Alpha/Zero title.
Sirlin's probably just grouchy because he helped with HD remix, but Daigo was invited to help with some of the balancing on 4 . . . and he probably can't beat the guy.
For me, the easiest and cheapest way to beat him is to jump in with a hard kick, followed by a low hard kick, then just keep doing focus attacks, timing them so that they fully charge and hit as soon as he gets up. Works on easiest for me every time, thought obviously with medium difficulty and higher it takes a lot more variety.
Street Fighter hasn't been "simple" since SF2 and SF4 is probably the simplest it's been in a while.
I'm just surprised that this guy didn't rag on SF4 for basically being a complete ripoff of SF2:HD that brings little new to the table.
Sure, I'm hopelessly addicted to SF4, but I still think it's bland as all hell.
I still love this game.
Then again like Aaron said on the Podcast, if it wasn't for the Ken spammers then the game would be good. I just telelport around them and Boom they have no fucking idea what to do.
am I the only one on this planet with no problems doing a 360 without jumping or QCF x2 + PPP consistently on a 360 controller? I can't do very many combos with it, though. :( Madcatz, release your goddamn sticks already. >_<
I would agree based on my experiences over the last week or so. Especially needing to execute them successfully at the "easy" levels.
I'm all for the computer abusing the player once you hit medium and higher difficulties, but requiring precision on easy difficulties for folks that only have default 360 controllers is a bit insane.
Maybe having an actual joystick makes things easier...I don't know.
does it really matter if a move can be done only 1 frame after a certain other 1 frame move? who cares. you might have more fun playing if you just sit and PLAY the game and not dissect it to the point where you no longer have fun playing it.
You can still get beat buy a guy that uses no special moves.
less QQ more using guys that are not Ken or Ryu.
But yeah, what Nilcam said.
The circle motions are a breeze and I have mine to fire all 3 punch or kick on my RT & LT...
oh and SSF2THDR looks like ass.
My only gripe with the game is Sagat...they just made him slower, that doesnt balance him out!!!
Also, I'm not sure I love the idea of the Revenge super.
As for Sirlin, he wants to turn Street Fighter into a casual game like Super Smash Bros but I don't think that will ever happen. He might as well create a new franchise from the ground up.
When you see what you have to do, and can do each move individually, you should not have to decipher cryptic timing guidelines in the dark.. at least tell me if I'm executing a move in a combo too early or late.
Sirlin places top 8 in ST every year and used to place Top 8 or Top 16 in Alpha, so he's not new to street fighter by any means.
I agree with a lot of what he has to say because this game can get into the stupid levels of difficulty. EX cancelling on a pad (360) is a ridiculous feat in itself especially for combos and stuff in the challenge mode can be very dumb to do with it. Also, the 1 frame links is a very bad idea.
for those having problems with 360 degree moves, you only have to do 225 degrees to pull it off. that's how you do them without jumping. check...
http://thirdworldgamer.blogspot.com/2009/02/street-fighter-iv-move-shortcuts-for.html
One thing I do agree with, is that inputs should be easier. It is about time we just got rid of complex inputs to allow everyone to play the real game.
I enjoy playing franchise modes in sports games and setting up my team to be dominant for years to come with roster moves, etc. I've even recently gotten into Football Manager and other sim sports titles. It's dorky, and I spend a lot of time looking at screens with tons of information and no graphics, but to me it's fun. To each his or her own.
There's no room for error. If you don't buffer things exactly in the 1 or 2 frame windows of opportunity then you don't get your hits to link.
First off Sirlin has been playing fighting games for well ever and has written a book on playing competitive games (that spawned from a very famous forum post oh so long ago). Saying that he wants to dumb games down is kinda ridiculous. Read any part of his site and his real bias is clear: He wants to have competitive games not put in arbitrarily hard execution just to make the game deeper when deeper strategic choices could do the job much better.
Second, on a website about competitive gaming and game design isn't the WHOLE POINT to be nitpicky. It's a critical look at a game not some pansy advertising-masked-as-a-review. No one jumps on ZP's great criticism of games because he does it with humor, yet the same statements made without jokes makes him a whiny-nitpicky-bitch?
Very hypocritical imo.
I guess nobody is happy either way.
SF4 will never be HD Remix, and he really needs to get that through his head. It's a different game in the same 'universe'. He needs to quit bitching and just learn the new strategies.
Floaty air hits just make some players jump adverse and promote the exploitation of mechanics to create near infinite combo chains.
The button requirements are annoying. Not because you need a joystick. They are annoying because it detracts away from gameplay. I always though fighting games should be more about timing, not about muscle memory in executing chinese finger torture.
It is annoying to listen to Capcom talk about lowering the bar for SFIV and making it casual friendly. No matter how Capcom dresses it up, SFIV is about as hardcore as hardcore games get.
"what idiot plays the game without an arcade stick anyway."
The idiot that can't actually purchase an arcade stick. I actually thought I could purchase one through an online retailer AFTER the release date. Now, I refuse to pay a 200% markup. $200 - $400 for an arcade stick is not something I'm interested in.
I'd go buy a SF2:Hyper arcade machine if I was going to drop that much coin on street fighter.