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I can't believe I'm going to post a serious comment here, but while I dig the video I can't get behind the message. There really isn't a problem with attractive female game journalists. Their point seems to be that people will be too busy staring at her cleavage to listen to what they have to say about video games, and I'd have to call bullshit on that.
We (humans in general, not just males or gamers) like looking at pretty people. That's just our nature. There's nothing wrong with that. It's why Katie Couric is a news anchor and Gilbert Gottfried isn't. It's pleasing to look at Tara Long or Jessica Chobot or Olivia Munn while they talk about games. There's no shame in that. However, if someone is too busy flogging the bishop to Tara's tits while she's talking about Borderlands 2, that's hardly Tara's fault now is it?
Anyway, yeah. Funny video, bad message.
We (humans in general, not just males or gamers) like looking at pretty people. That's just our nature. There's nothing wrong with that. It's why Katie Couric is a news anchor and Gilbert Gottfried isn't. It's pleasing to look at Tara Long or Jessica Chobot or Olivia Munn while they talk about games. There's no shame in that. However, if someone is too busy flogging the bishop to Tara's tits while she's talking about Borderlands 2, that's hardly Tara's fault now is it?
Anyway, yeah. Funny video, bad message.
Haha wow. I love Anthony's dejected little "so how many of these do I have to suck off?"
Also, Tristix: I think the message is less "sexy people shouldn't say things" and more "sexy people should stop being sexy when they have things to say because being sexy detracts from the message."
Katie Couric doesn't do the news in a bikini, after all.
Also, Tristix: I think the message is less "sexy people shouldn't say things" and more "sexy people should stop being sexy when they have things to say because being sexy detracts from the message."
Katie Couric doesn't do the news in a bikini, after all.
Jesus fuck, somebody get Rev a box of doughnuts or two. He looks like he just stepped outta auschwitz.
@Browneye
I totally take offense to that, but not really. I'm ~6'2" and 140/145 and I don't even look that skinny O.O
I totally take offense to that, but not really. I'm ~6'2" and 140/145 and I don't even look that skinny O.O
I was going to watch the video, when I saw an age gate that wasn't auto-filled and only there as a courtesy. Not worth the effort, sorry. So I'll just post this:
@Tristrix
Gilbert Gottfried is too busy making inappropriately racist jokes to be a news anchor. Get your facts straight.
@Tristrix
Gilbert Gottfried is too busy making inappropriately racist jokes to be a news anchor. Get your facts straight.
@Konnery: Really? I'm 6' 4" and 200 and everyone tries to feed me and acts like I'm dying. Build types I guess. I'm a big ole broad shouldered fella. I'm guessing you're slender?
"I can't possibly ask people to respect me if I'm not respecting them through the way I convey my information"
This pretty much absolutely sums up my feeling on female game journalists who resort to "whoreclothes".
Funny... and with a good point... and Anthony is uber-sexy in that outfit... especially the butt shot!
@Tristix... the problem is that some of these women ARE intelligent, they ARE gamers... but the whoreclothes become the focus because it's almost like they're saying they can't compete in video game journalism without the added attention that their looks and clothing can bring. The thing is that many of these women actually can compete. I would use Raychul Moore as an example of this... I honestly think she could have made it in the industry as a video game journalist but she'll always be better known as that hot girl that does the skanky video game pics and enters every Hot Gamer Girl contest.
It's just a shame.
This pretty much absolutely sums up my feeling on female game journalists who resort to "whoreclothes".
Funny... and with a good point... and Anthony is uber-sexy in that outfit... especially the butt shot!
@Tristix... the problem is that some of these women ARE intelligent, they ARE gamers... but the whoreclothes become the focus because it's almost like they're saying they can't compete in video game journalism without the added attention that their looks and clothing can bring. The thing is that many of these women actually can compete. I would use Raychul Moore as an example of this... I honestly think she could have made it in the industry as a video game journalist but she'll always be better known as that hot girl that does the skanky video game pics and enters every Hot Gamer Girl contest.
It's just a shame.
Elsa, let me preface this by saying I'm not directly comparing the two. However, your argument about the appearance of women and what that invites strikes me as uncomfortably similar to "she was asking for it." We've established, as a society, that women are allowed to own their sexuality without being ridiculed, threatened, or dismissed because of it. That's, as far as I can tell, been one of the primary tenets of modern feminism.
Now I'm not going to tiptoe here and apologize for having an opinion while male, but still, take this for what its worth. In my estimation, belittling any woman for taking charge of her own sexuality while still asking to be taken seriously is a giant step backwards for women. It tears down what you've spent the last half century building.
Now I'm not going to tiptoe here and apologize for having an opinion while male, but still, take this for what its worth. In my estimation, belittling any woman for taking charge of her own sexuality while still asking to be taken seriously is a giant step backwards for women. It tears down what you've spent the last half century building.
@Tristix... there is absolutely nothing wrong with a beautiful sexy woman as a games journalist... but if the focus is on SEXY (Raychul is best known for her semi-nude photos of herself with gaming controllers) then it becomes pandering to a male audience that she assumes is more interested in her looks than what she has to say.
There are many thoughts in feminism as to what constitutes the difference between being exploited for one's sexuality and exploiting one's sexuality (or being self-exploitive). I think the main point was respect for one's audience and not assuming that they are all male and all want to see you naked or partially clothed. I don't personally see an issue with belittling a woman who has the brains and ability to be a journalist (and seemed to want to be one) but instead made the decision to use her body to sell herself instead of her brains and ability. It's not a giant step back for women to compete without resorting to using their sexuality as a tool.
It's the same for men to some degree... if a hot, buff male journalist started doing vids of himself with no shirt on, if he put out very suggestive photos of himself... the reality is that he would become better known as that "hot gaming guy" and the focus of his career would be on his looks rather than what he had to say. It's his choice... but looks fade after awhile... brains and skill generally don't.
There are many thoughts in feminism as to what constitutes the difference between being exploited for one's sexuality and exploiting one's sexuality (or being self-exploitive). I think the main point was respect for one's audience and not assuming that they are all male and all want to see you naked or partially clothed. I don't personally see an issue with belittling a woman who has the brains and ability to be a journalist (and seemed to want to be one) but instead made the decision to use her body to sell herself instead of her brains and ability. It's not a giant step back for women to compete without resorting to using their sexuality as a tool.
It's the same for men to some degree... if a hot, buff male journalist started doing vids of himself with no shirt on, if he put out very suggestive photos of himself... the reality is that he would become better known as that "hot gaming guy" and the focus of his career would be on his looks rather than what he had to say. It's his choice... but looks fade after awhile... brains and skill generally don't.
This all seems arbitrary to me, Elsa. We're all fine with sexuality. We're all fine with intelligent opinions. Put the two together though and hold the fucking phone buddy, no! Silly, ain't it? Why are the two mutually exclusive? Can't someone be sexy and smart, and take ownership and make use of both simultaneously?
You mentioned that Raychul Moore, and you're right, she's an excellent example. She has legitimate points to make. She clearly does know gaming. Additionally, she dresses provocatively. I'm just not clear on how her clothes damage her arguments. Going back to the HAWP video, "not respecting them through the way I convey my arguments" is a bullshit, nonsensical statement and gets even closer to the "she was asking for it" pejorative. It implies that, unless women keep their sexuality tightly under wraps and dress the way we say she should dress, she's disrespecting us and is undeserving of our attention. Sounds really fucked up when it's put like that, doesn't it?
I think the problem here is that women don't like to look at other women acting that way. That's understandable, it's not for you. Female gamers absolutely exist and should be taken seriously and treated with respect, but not everything pertaining to gaming has to be for female gamers. There's a lot of male gamers too, and we all like boobs and Borderlands. There's nothing inherently WRONG with putting those two things together. It doesn't make us, the guys watching it, perverts. It also doesn't make them, the women giving us what we like, disrespectful or less of a person or less intelligent. These are all attitudes rooted in centuries old taboos about sexuality that we shouldn't be perpetuating to the detriment of women.
The moment you (as in females in general) start arguing against the right for a woman to use her sexuality as she sees fit, you diminish all women, not just the one you've got a problem with.
You mentioned that Raychul Moore, and you're right, she's an excellent example. She has legitimate points to make. She clearly does know gaming. Additionally, she dresses provocatively. I'm just not clear on how her clothes damage her arguments. Going back to the HAWP video, "not respecting them through the way I convey my arguments" is a bullshit, nonsensical statement and gets even closer to the "she was asking for it" pejorative. It implies that, unless women keep their sexuality tightly under wraps and dress the way we say she should dress, she's disrespecting us and is undeserving of our attention. Sounds really fucked up when it's put like that, doesn't it?
I think the problem here is that women don't like to look at other women acting that way. That's understandable, it's not for you. Female gamers absolutely exist and should be taken seriously and treated with respect, but not everything pertaining to gaming has to be for female gamers. There's a lot of male gamers too, and we all like boobs and Borderlands. There's nothing inherently WRONG with putting those two things together. It doesn't make us, the guys watching it, perverts. It also doesn't make them, the women giving us what we like, disrespectful or less of a person or less intelligent. These are all attitudes rooted in centuries old taboos about sexuality that we shouldn't be perpetuating to the detriment of women.
The moment you (as in females in general) start arguing against the right for a woman to use her sexuality as she sees fit, you diminish all women, not just the one you've got a problem with.
@PhilK3nS3bb3n
Fairly, i run a lot so that could have something to do with it, I'm also like 75% leg so that might help too. People tend to think I look 15-20 pounds heavier than I actually am though so I'm not sure what to think really.
Fairly, i run a lot so that could have something to do with it, I'm also like 75% leg so that might help too. People tend to think I look 15-20 pounds heavier than I actually am though so I'm not sure what to think really.
The provocativeness thing is bullshit.
Most of that stuff happens in a video format. Most of that stuff happens during funny segments or during something that's not waxing lyrically on the philosophically implications of video games or the industry as a whole.
I literally don't remember any time a male or female journalist was doing sexy things while trying to make a legitimate point (and there wasn't sarcasm or irony involved) on the state of video games or the industry or anything "important".
Hell I can't even remember someone writing anything about the state of video games or the industry or anything important, but that's besides the point.
I mean, there's a picture of Jim Sterling in a tub/bubble bath, pseudo-naked (unconfirmed to this day) drinking Santana Sparkling Wine. I don't think anyone takes him less seriously because of that.
But dat Papa Burch....
Most of that stuff happens in a video format. Most of that stuff happens during funny segments or during something that's not waxing lyrically on the philosophically implications of video games or the industry as a whole.
I literally don't remember any time a male or female journalist was doing sexy things while trying to make a legitimate point (and there wasn't sarcasm or irony involved) on the state of video games or the industry or anything "important".
Hell I can't even remember someone writing anything about the state of video games or the industry or anything important, but that's besides the point.
I mean, there's a picture of Jim Sterling in a tub/bubble bath, pseudo-naked (unconfirmed to this day) drinking Santana Sparkling Wine. I don't think anyone takes him less seriously because of that.
But dat Papa Burch....
That video was AMAZING.
And Tristrix totally pissed the point, despite the fact that Anthony stated said point word-for-fucking-word.
I laughed my ass off. Another great video, HAWP!
And Tristrix totally pissed the point, despite the fact that Anthony stated said point word-for-fucking-word.
I laughed my ass off. Another great video, HAWP!
Mudd, the fact that I disagree doesn't mean I didn't understand. One can completely comprehend a point and not agree with it. But then you knew that full well and this conversation was going quite well without your attempts to drag it down to the level of a flame war.
"Making an intelligent point" and "being sexy" at the same time generally shows a lack of good judgement and a division of interests (unless, like the vid here, the point is about showcasing sexiness). "Being sexy" is a goal unto itself, and usually a self-serving one that doesn't blend well with "making an intelligent point."
If the folks at the TED talks dressed provocatively, you'd never hear what they are saying because either A. you're distracted by the showcase of skin or (and more importantly) B. "why should I listen to this person who obviously doesn't have good judgement enough NOT to detract from their point with their visual presentation?"
Plus, despite what you might be conditioned to believe, not everyone is into sex. And even less folks are into commercialized, propagated, all-up-in-your-grill, phoney sex.
While it's certainly [possible to be intelligent and sexy at the same time, it's usually by accident and it usually involves those trendy, thick-rimmed glasses that I'm getting sick of seeing everywhere.
If the folks at the TED talks dressed provocatively, you'd never hear what they are saying because either A. you're distracted by the showcase of skin or (and more importantly) B. "why should I listen to this person who obviously doesn't have good judgement enough NOT to detract from their point with their visual presentation?"
Plus, despite what you might be conditioned to believe, not everyone is into sex. And even less folks are into commercialized, propagated, all-up-in-your-grill, phoney sex.
While it's certainly [possible to be intelligent and sexy at the same time, it's usually by accident and it usually involves those trendy, thick-rimmed glasses that I'm getting sick of seeing everywhere.
I didn't laugh throughout the entire video, making me wonder who finds these funny.
Also, this argument is about as fucking idiotic as classifying games as art.
Also, this argument is about as fucking idiotic as classifying games as art.
Thank you Rammstein. Those are excellent points and added some much appreciated enlightenment to this discussion. You're a treasure.
I can think of a few competent shows and podcasts in the gaming media where sex appeal, male or female, is an important part of the formula. It can be part of the chemistry that makes good conversation. I can't say that I have stuck with any of them over time, though, and the vast majority of projects that attempt it end up seeming really phony. I pretty much always prefer to hear genuine nerds talk about videogames than gaming lifestyle type people who may or may not pick up a controller once a week.
Gamers are a lot more diverse in their tastes than late-90s media could really understand - luckily a lot of what's out there now is equally diverse.
Gamers are a lot more diverse in their tastes than late-90s media could really understand - luckily a lot of what's out there now is equally diverse.
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