Poking fun at the console RTS is like kicking a sick puppy. We’re all aware that controls, camera and gameplay are significantly weaker on a console than it is on the PC. Despite popular knowledge, it's still entertaining to observe what each console RTS developer will be trying to do differently with their game. In an interview with
CVG,
Halo Wars lead designer Gaeme Devine said he observed the aforementioned issues with console RTSs and purposefully designed a game to avoid them.
From the interview:
What we've seen before on console is that people try to take a PC game and port it to a console. You end up with a half-way hybrid. There are a lot of things that we saw that were wrong - that we noted NOT to do.
He then went on to say that he didn’t think, “anyone’s done good console strategy games before” other than
Pikmin and some crazy German Megadrive game called
Hertzog Zwei. I haven’t had the pleasure of exploring the marvel that is
Hertzog, but I’m sure it’s amazing.
Personally, I’m in the camp that thinks console RTSs could work if the context was actually considered. I think a game like
Halo Wars (where the console was in mind the entire time) has the ability to break the “PC is better” wall we’ve been dealing with. What do you guys think? Will the RTS always be a PC thing?
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21 comments + 95764 views
I heard they tried to put an FPS on a console once. Madness.
Controlling a lot of units takes precision. You just can't get the same precision with two joysticks that you can get with a mouse. Also, PC RTS has good flow. Console does not. So yes, RTS will always be better on PC.
I have to admit, everyone someone mentions Herzog Zwei, I squee like a 12 year old girl hopped up on pocky and adolescence. Most definitely one of the defining games of my childhood. I remember a 12 hours standoff held between me and my nephew when our navel bases were completely filled to the brim with warboats.
What t3h d0n said.
@t3h d0n
Good flow, What do you mean? I'm an RTS enthusiast at best, so I know how they work, but nothing of the online aspect, I was never good enough. I do think that a console control scheme could reasonably approach PC quality, but it would be complex and require a much simpler version for a standard user (Like me). I do think though that it's not likely that a controller will top a mouse in RTS. I don't necessarily need mouse level control however, if the game was made with consoles in mind. An RTS with less focus on number of units and more on management could do a lot to lessen dependence on the mouse level of control.
And halo was an example of how much FPS suck on consoles.
Why should they change it with halo wars? They are on a streek.
First off, it's Herzog.
Secondly, yes, I think either Halo Wars or EndWar can really bring things home for console gaming. I'm interested to see how they turn out.
Not interested enough to buy EndWar just yet though. I've got other things to do.
Yeah, it's Herzog Zwei, not Hertzog Zwei. It was a damn fun one or two player strategy game on the Genesis.
gross generalizations are grossly generalized.
I haven't played Halo wars yet, so I don't know if RTS games will "always" be better. Remember, forever is a long fuckin time.
Herzog Zwei was attributed as a major inspiration in the Dune PC game. Which in turn spawned the RTS genre as both Warcraft and C&C list it as an influence. In other words, Herzog Zwei is considered the birth of the genre to many.
Warcraft IV - Exclusive on the X360! Heard it here first.
Not only that, but you had a mech that tranformed into a jet! This was way before I knew what macross were. It was so badass. Sometimes we didn't feel like strategy, so me and my brother would just have 1v1 jet mech fights.
Anyway, we'll have to wait and see how this turns out. I never really trusted anything Halo, it's all a bit bland.
@ Robbo
Flow, in my opinion, is everything in the game going in motion seamlessly. Some games have it, some not so much, but this can be boiled down to personal preference.
@ Cube
Ensemble Studios does a heck of a job with RTS games. Is your comment aimed at Bungie, Halo as a franchise, or what?
Nope towards Console and there lack of decent control options and under powered GPUs.
halo is like the best thing they can make and it was not that impressive in 2001 and still is not and it controls like crap.
and whne it came on PC onbviously dumbed down from when it was on MAC. it failed to impress anybody on PC twice since there was better deeper FPS out.
now Ensemble Studios can dumb down the RTS for consoles and make it suck like starcraft on the n64 and make it control like crap and that is the main issue isnt it the control or lack of it on consoles with these games?
when the wii gets are RTS wake me up that might be decent with it's IR pointer that works like a mouse.
@ Cube
There isn't anything wrong with a console RTS, but complaining from a PC perspective implies that the targeted audience are PC Gamers. Console gamers won't give a shit about your Rise of Nations, or your StarCraft, they care about the quality of their own Console RTS games. There isn't a need for a "whats better" argument because that's like complaining about how books are better then their own movies.
P.S. Bungie will always true-heatedly be a Mac company.
And the console port of call of duty 4 is crap too so that don't count
and so is the command and conquer 3 and so is the supreme commander port. The fact that such a horrible version of supreme commander can be on a console even blows my mind that people might buy it.
What Unreal Clock said. Ensemble are sticking to what they do best, an RTS, with a franchise aimed at a console audience. I'm interested to see how this will play out. PC gaming is dead, i'm afraid, and only those few elitists and pros who know how to build a gaming rig will be left. and that won't last long, until only the MMO's are left, which are starting to shift to consoles too anyways
I'm sure Halo Wars will play fine, but i don't see how an RTS can be played competitively with a controller and not feel sloow..what kind of APM (actions per min) would you have? you whould have shit macro / micro
@Cube, "Call of Duty 4" is no longer a PC franchise, and it would stupid of you to think so. You seem to be missing every single sentence in the article above, since both RTS games you listed are "ports". Did you even read the article?
On a side-note, since when did a DEEPER FPS mean a BETTER FPS. Some of my favorite games ever are entirely mindless romps, and in no way have some super-deep prosthetic quality to them.
Ya PC games are dead except for the bajaiion that play use steam and play all those MMOS.
Gee i dodn't know nvida and ATi sure do put out a lot of GPU's every year at the exact same time that have features with only one purpose to play games.
Well fuck nobody is playing them all that hardware must end up in a landfill next to the ET games.
No wait theere all buying that crap for spreadsheets and surfing the web!
and to run world of warcraft that can run at full on a older card.
http://www.joystiq.com/2008/02/07/steam-hits-15-million-users/
http://digg.com/pc_games/World_of_Warcraft_Hits_10_Million_Subscribers_2
I didnt say it was a PC franchise i said the console version sucked balls and is missing features the Real PC version has.
@Cube
The reason PC gaming is slowly going to die (temporarily of course, but that's a long story) is that its becoming more and more like the console gaming industry. Its become more and more watered down with these imaginary standards and consists of only a few genres. MMORPG's are the pinnacle of death since its such a simple concept its attracting a whole different crowd which is great, except you have to remember the whole reason people take pride in being a PC gamer, is that they don't have to play these horrible "CONSOLE" games. But when you attract a big group of idiots to the playing field (not literally) you must play ball. Developers have increased the production of casual pc games which again is good and all, but you're merely attracting more of the console and mother crowd. Then what we have left with are the diehard FPS fans that most likely will end up playing Valve games till the end of time. Now what happened to the large amount of variety? What happened to my PC RPGs? Oh wait, they're all First Person now and have this same fake Elder Scrolls quality to them. PC is a temporary dieing breed, and its only saving grace are the few gems that slip out, and indie game developers. Yet even they can fail from time to time.
Cube, you are making an ass of yourself with all of your idiotic comments. Just stop talking.
Right so in other words you are saying the PC don't have RPGs and you areusing the ones that have been on the console sold out the ass to say it?
So on xbox 360 and it don't have much else besides the crap RPG from japan that nobody bought, and multi platform PC RPG ports? and new version of a PC rpg series that started the oblvion gameplay with marrowwind?
So that scuky fake elder scrolls oblvion fallout 3 and mass effect/ japanese RPG crap is good enough for xbox 360 people.
and then there is that fable 2 crap which is a wannabe PC game pretty dumbed down to 1 button combat.
I can agree with that you win the consoles have tons o variety in the RPG department even though most of the ones that sold are PC games.
The PC is dead it don't have the Big RPg that is out this holiday fallout 3...
Halo wars wil be tha nail in the COFFIN for the PC.
@Cube
I hate making you feel as if you've won, but you're boring and don't seem to be making any logical points. Ciao
I think that PC RPG's will always be superior, but if you develop for the console, it's your responsibility to make sure that the margin is slimmer. It's just the nature of the machine. You can act faster, and with more precision, using a mouse than a pad of buttons and a microphone. But by making the controls on console more intuitive, you can help fill the gap.
Pikmin RTS!!! Do it Shiggy
I had no idea that Sega was a German company....
I'm sort of with Cube on this one. The PC is a much better platform in so many ways for me but it's true it's not as popular as consoles. Honestly, I would prefer it if consoles didn't exist at all but that's not gonna happen.
Call of Duty 4 was great on PC and had a fantastic feature; Leaning. Ubelievably useful in a game like CoD and the lack of that feature made the console version feel really stiff. Another plus was I recieved a lot less verbal abuse when playing on the PC than when I played on Xbox Live.
I don't understand why anyone would want to play an RTS on a console. But we shall see...we shall see.
Pikmin was a wonderful RTS on a console and Little King Story looks to follow that up quite nicely. It all depends on the developers and if the makers of Age of Empires can't make a RTS work on a console no one can.
I'm still trying to figure out how a halo RTS would work because it says it a million times in the games and the books, the Spartans almost always win on the smaller scale, but on the large scale HUMANS ALWAYS LOSE. so unless this is a while after halo 3 I have no idea how the balance is going to work. Sorry, that just bugged me.
Haha, this thing looks like a For Dummies edition RTS. No thanks. The territorial pissing contest in the comments is amusing though, people get so possessive over their gaming platform of choice.
I prefer my RTS on a PC because there's just more precision with a mouse/keys as compared to just 10 buttons and 2 sticks. I dunno.. just seems like they're more well put together than when they get put on a console.
It will never work. You just can't micro manage without a keyboard and mouse.
Theyll never do it. The 'normal' RTS genre (ie not stuff like Pikmin) is the only genre i can think of that really requires a ton of buttons such as you find on a keyboard.
I mean, im pretty casual with them (just play single player, to make cool units and blow shit up) and i still need the ability to select all units, all of a type, group units to number keys, track a unit, use units secondary ability, jump to home base (or whatever).
And you need precision with your selection tool. You cant be cycling through units in a pinch, and it would just get frustrating using a controller to pick out a particular dude from a whole group.
The only way i really see it working is changing the game so much that its not really a 'normal' rts anymore. In that case, its a moot point. But itll still probably control better with a mouse and keyboard.
RTS will always be the best on the PC, but i am interested in this game. I Trust Ensemble to do good work, Age of Empires was my favorite RTS series.
RTS' will always be best on PC.
FPS' will always be best on PC.
That doesn't mean they can't work, and be effing fun, though, so GO GO GO (Halo Wars Developer, I'm assuming bingie but cba to confirm)
Kingdom Under Fire got some of the controls right. Let players use a mouse and keyboard and it's still a console game. A traditional controller can easily transfer the usual commands (except for hotkeys). Left analog stick becomes mouse and clicking it=left click. Y could be mapped to cycle through bases and x to cycle through military groups. Let players adjust joystick sensitivity under an options menu so those who get comfortable can fly over the screen issuing orders. I've never understood why some folks believe RTSes find consoles inhospitable. The genre started on consoles.
It never fails to surprise me that other people played Herzog Zwei. I used to play that game against my older brother all the time! He always kicked my ass because I spent more time flying around the stage shooting at his guys in jet form than I did placing my own troops down to fight him, but I digress, good times.
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