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Guardian: These videogames are extreme pornography! photo

Film critic Mark Kermode wrote a very interesting article recently comparing the recent scares and controversies surrounding videogames to the similar scares and controversies that surrounded horror movies back in the 1980s. The Guardian, by way of reactionary columnist Jaqueline Hunt, has responded to the article, missing the point entirely and bringing up the long-dead RapeLay controversy

In her article, "These videogames aren't art, they're extreme pornography," Hunt focuses entirely on one game, RapeLay, to make her point, totally ignoring the existence of truly artistic games and choosing instead to vilify an entire medium based on this single anomalous title. 

"If games such as RapeLay can now be classified as art, maybe the popular media promotion of sexual violence against women is so normalized that we don't even pay attention any more," supposes Hunt. "Does 'killing' a prostituted woman in Grand Theft Auto just reconfirm to a gamer the "lesser value" of women in prostitution generally?"

As Negative Gamer points out, what Hunt has done is akin to her attacking the entire medium of film because child pornography exists. Singling out a videogame and using it to say that somebody defending games as art is wrong comes across as really quite pathetic, and exposes Hunt's complete ignorance and inability to form a real argument. Videogames are bad because one videogame I saw is bad -- that's her argument.

The Guardian is usually quite intelligent and fair with its videogame coverage -- it's sad and disappointing that the publication gave this woman a soapbox upon which to miss the point entirely.








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57 comments | showing # 1 to 50
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RenegadePanda's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/17/2009 12:26
RenegadePanda
This is a joke, right?

But please, don't try and stop the Japanese from making perverted games. It's part of their culture, god damnit.
Cataract's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/17/2009 12:26
Cataract
"These videogames aren't art, they're extreme pornography."

Eat it, Anthony Burch.
Joanna Mueller's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/17/2009 12:31
Joanna Mueller
Jaqueline Hunt, the reason we can't have nice things.
Monodi's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/17/2009 12:31
Monodi
I'd extreme his pornography.
Monodi's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/17/2009 12:32
Monodi
Oh wait, I misread and thought it was Mark who stated that.

her, then.
Fearzone's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/17/2009 12:35
Fearzone
Thanks for keeping us up to date on the Utterly Pathetic. Love the tag. Hadn't heard of this game before, saw a couple clips on YouTube, and it looked pretty tame.
psycho terror2's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/17/2009 12:36
psycho terror2
"If games such as RapeLay can now be classified as art..."

that's a massive "IF". the "games as art" idea has been around for a long time, but i believe this is the first time i have seen anyone suggest that it should be applied to rapelay. it seems as if these idiot journalists give that game far more credit than anyone within the gaming community has.
Uther's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/17/2009 12:37
Uther
Well, from now on I'm going to count all paintings as pornography for what rule 34 has brought. Leonardo da Vinci was a filthy monster!
Stevil's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/17/2009 12:38
Stevil
It almost sounded like Kermode is starting to begrudgingly accept videogames. C'mon Mark, you can do it! Don't let that experience with the Wii put you off!
KingSigy's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/17/2009 12:50
KingSigy
Can you even call RapeLay a game?
Nevi's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/17/2009 12:51
Nevi
Jaqueline Hunt rhymes with 'uninformed cunt'.
Killrig's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/17/2009 12:52
Killrig
She's just upset because her last name is Hunt and her husband's name is Mike.

This is like declaring that all films are pornography just because offensive porn exists.
Xhumation's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/17/2009 12:54
Xhumation
well I'm just gonna facepalm and leave. This is embarassing.
Mechman's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/17/2009 12:54
Mechman
Saying that no games can bet art and should be banned because of rapelay is like saying no movies can be art because of horny cheerleaders 13.
Xzyliac's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/17/2009 12:54
Xzyliac
Some day these things will be just another crazy person saying crazy things and we'll be able to ignore them.

I guess first someone has to step up and stop reporting them.
Seolfer Wulf's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/17/2009 12:57
Seolfer Wulf
WHO LET THIS BITCH OUT THE KITCHEN!!!

WTF GUYS C'MON, STAY ON TOP OF THIS SHIT!!!!!!

LOLOLOLOL Women journalists, go bake a cake.
Edge2k10's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/17/2009 13:03
Edge2k10
What is it about video games that makes people into retarded, mistaken preachers? You'd think after being around for so long people would finally start to accept video games, much the same way they've accepted violence in cartoons, rap music, or horror movies, but it seems like video games just can't catch a freaking break. And most of the time the people who rise up in protest over a game, is someone who clearly hasn't played a game other then Pong in the past 20 years.

Someone want to point this chick in the direction of, oh, I don't know, Flower? Or Okami? Or Odins Sphere, Muramasa, Braid, Ico, Shadow of the Collossus, or any of the other hundreds of games out there, that prove that the medium is an art form? I agree with whoever said that her opinion is like saying the film genre is garbage because child porn exists. People need to gaing 100 IQ points, and re-enlist in High School before they make stupid articles like this.
Kaspar's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/17/2009 13:06
Kaspar
I am disappoint.
Vincent Agresti's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/17/2009 13:07
Vincent Agresti
They need to stop raping this dead horse already.
ErigBurger's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/17/2009 13:08
ErigBurger
How DARE she say the highly acclaimed RapeLay is not art. THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!!

By het logic Dora the Explorer is pornography because Cinemax exists. What an ignorant joke of a human being.
runchild's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/17/2009 13:09
runchild
What Negative Gamer has to say on the matter is completely true: while part of what Hunt has to say is a good point (that pornographic games demean women), she misses the point that RapeLay is equivalent to a rape-based porno (which also demeans women). So if the article stood on it's own it would be a pretty legit argument other than the random aside about GTA and most importantly, the first paragraph. That's where she tries to link her article to Kermode's, and that's what destroys the whole thing. IF her argument had nothing to do with whether or not games are legitimately art or not, it would be fine. But by starting with that point and then trying to argue it with the rest of the article (which doesn't really even argue the first point but goes somewhere else entirely), she looks like she's trying to argue that Saving Private Ryan can't be artistic because porn exists in video form.
bodybreak's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/17/2009 13:12
bodybreak
@cataract, I was thinking the exact same thing! I'll never look at Farcry 2 the same again.
EpicPenguin's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/17/2009 13:13
EpicPenguin
Wow, a journalist jumps to conclusions about videogames. What an unusual phenomenon.
Interlink's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/17/2009 13:14
Interlink
Huh?...no where does she say "ALL video games".

Her article states, "Our international campaign called on the Japanese government to ban games that promote sexual violence against women and girls."

When she writes "These Games" it's pretty clear she's talking about *certain* video games, not all of them.
socialnorms's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/17/2009 13:21
socialnorms
@Renegade: Haha part of their culture. CULTURE IS SACRED! CULTURE MUST BE RESPECTED NO MATTER WHAT!

I hope that despite what the postmodernist English professors tell you from within their cloistered microcosms of false-reality, your realize that such an argument is both dangerous and self-destructing. It's dangerous because it can legitimize wonderful practices like female genital mutilation, and it's self-destructing because simultaneously our culture holds that such a practice is wrong. So who gets to be right? The bigger group? Or the minority by virtue of being a minority?

Nobody's going to stop Japanese people from making crap like that but the Japanese themselves.
wardprod's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/17/2009 13:25
wardprod
WOW! Nice advert for that game. TBH I don't get it why do they want to decide what is right, and wrong... Someone above me posted before: it's part of their culture. Leave them be.
Excel-2011's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/17/2009 13:26
Excel-2011
Good thing I'm only into regular pornographic games. That was a close one.
Mulk Calathar's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/17/2009 13:30
Mulk Calathar
Wow. Both sides of this argument are being pretty stupid and dishonest. It's a retard slap fight kids! The only way to win is to stop caring and walk away without making eye contact.
D-503's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/17/2009 14:01
D-503
Uck. I kinda feel bad for her. She doesn't realize there are more than 2 vidjagames.
SASUGA RIVAL's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/17/2009 14:11
SASUGA RIVAL
More insight into this story from Sankaku Complex:

Incidentally, the individual responsible for the now widely quoted “doing the 13-year-old was best” quip was a Sankaku Complex reader who privately admitted he was merely trolling – a complete ignorance of even the basics of Internet culture on the part of Equality Now (perhaps not surprising considering their inability to accept any culture other than that of their own moral hysteria) seems to have caused them a great deal of trouble recently when they were caught lying about misquoted Sankaku Complex comments.

http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2009/12/18/equality-now-games-are-extreme-pornography/
Rucksack's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/17/2009 14:14
Rucksack
What's up with the Brits?
yatzze's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/17/2009 14:32
yatzze
those chicks in rapelay were totally asking for it anyway. their bodies said no,but their eyes said yes.
mistic's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/17/2009 14:33
mistic
he talks about MW2 and she confuses it with Rapelay? ( a game that is hated by many gamers btw ) what a c*nt :p
yatzze's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/17/2009 14:34
yatzze
gigiddy
imthatotherdude's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/17/2009 14:37
imthatotherdude
Good points brought up in this post. It's disappointing that people who make blatantly ridiculous and unfounded criticisms often overshadow those with truly interesting but less controversial points.
That being said: Support Anthony Burch and his well thought out criticisms!
Catmurderer's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/17/2009 14:37
Catmurderer
Has this Hunt lady said something really stupid before... Im almost 100% sure she said somethign retarded a little while ago
BalloonFighter's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/17/2009 14:41
BalloonFighter
I've seen rape in books,movies,television ,paintings,comics, and the internet. I've already stoked the bonfire. We must think of the children. They are not allowed to find out about the bad things in the world. They must experience that for themselves.
the7k's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/17/2009 15:38
the7k
The Guardian said something stupid and ill-informed about video games? I'm shocked! That's never happened before!
Arkhon's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/17/2009 15:44
Arkhon
I feel that Mark Kermode deserves some sort of award for writing one of the most correct things I have ever read on the internet.
Everyday Legend's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/17/2009 16:07
Everyday Legend
This? From The Guardian?

Did the editor take a week off or something?
matrixdude171's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/17/2009 16:21
matrixdude171
Uh huh, and what about all the sex in movies? Many are mainstream and lots of people go out and buy them, are they supporting extreme porn? Honestly, when will these people get their heads out of their asses and stop imposing their own ideas onto other people that don't want them. If I had a penny for every one of these people, I'd fill a pool within the hour.
Occams electric toothbrush's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/17/2009 16:23
Occams electric toothbrush
I wonder if people like this have to actively try to be this woefully ignorant or does it just come naturally to them. Also, does this carry over into other aspects of their lives? Do they only watch reality shows and only read the back of cereal boxes so as not to be educated on a single issue? It boggles my mind.
ninjikiran's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/17/2009 16:26
ninjikiran
That is like Glenn Beck actually caring that he is trolling. He obviously knows this but thats his job, getting views. Overreacting about things that don't exist, or are insignificant.

This woman to make it as far as she has, has to at a bare minimum understand that it is just a single hit in a huge market. It could also be the fact that she is a woman and takes harshly to these kinds of things, which is silly for us but obviously for her of grave danger and importance. I rather have a game like Rapelay though than a guy taking this fetish into the real world and actually harming a real woman that isn't comprised of pixels and procedural text.

Pretty soon we are all going to be jacked into the matrix where we will convicted of thought crimes. Because obviously having fantasies in the sanctity of our own home to no harm of anyone is a serious threat to the world.

At the same time, if you mis-treat or look lower on a woman you have more problems than just fantasies and gaming addictions. You have problems which society has been trying to fight against for many years, and is a real crutch to our advancement of being an evolved life form.
Sean Daisy's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/17/2009 16:31
Sean Daisy
"The Guardian is usually quite intelligent and fair with its videogame coverage -- it's sad and disappointing that the publication gave this woman a soapbox upon which to miss the point entirely."

In The Guardian's defence, this was clearly shown to be an opinion piece, and it is perhaps worth observing that there are still plenty of people out there who narrowly view our innocuous little hobby as sick, fetishistic and masturbatory. It gives a clear indication that we still have a fair way to go before videogames get the mainstream recognition they deserve.
DustyBlue's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/17/2009 16:53
DustyBlue
So it's not art if it is depicting something morally questionable? Check out this statue:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e1/The_White_Slave_statue.jpg

I guess THAT isn't art, just because it depicts human trafficking.
Themightylebeau2009's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/17/2009 17:37
Themightylebeau2009
@ TC101 - thanks for the link, this isnt the first article relating to games by Charlie Brooker too. Also, the Guardian has an entertainment guide and I remember the reviews being really good.

Simple case of someone who should be working for the Daily Mail instead.
Kalmah's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/17/2009 17:52
Kalmah
Skinemax has extreme pornographic movies, so why isn't anyone arguing against it?
Themightylebeau2009's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/17/2009 18:09
Themightylebeau2009
Just to clarify, I mean that woman should b writing for the Mail, not Charlie Brooker.
Rinsako's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/17/2009 18:10
Rinsako
Something is wrong with this women's ability to distinguish between a medium and its prospective subclasses.

Writing is the Medium (Action of Reading)
Novels, Poems and fanfictions are some of the subclasses.
Novels and Poems are art, and I'm pretty damn sure that haphazzardly written fanfictions do not constitute art (in most cases)

Film is the Medium (Action of Vision)
Movies, Documentaries and pornography are some of the subclasses.
Which can be further subclassed into different genre of movies, documentaries and pornography. Which is art, is subjective and is certainly not broadly applied to the medium of film based on the example of one outlier.

Which brings us to Videogames (Action of interaction); can also be viewed a subset of interactive media which is a subset of interactive activity
Video games can be broken into their various genres which can be further broken down into subsets of those various genres. The Videogame is the medium, games like Rapelay, and others, are far from art. They represent a subset genre that uses instant gratification and oversexualization as well as fetish as their main characteristics. These traits in themselves do not commonly constitute what could be considered art, and certainly are not defining characteristics of the medium. More aptly put, this type of game belongs to the medium of Video Games but carries themes more aptly aligned with the Film/Writing/Other Medium's equivalent of pornography.

To say that videogames are not art because one outlier represents another genre is like saying one man's/women's inability to perform a certain task precludes the entire gender from performing that task. It's just lazy statistics and would expect better from someone in charge of an organization that preaches equality and values fair representation and equity.
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