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GRAW team says 'It's wrong to say it's harder to code on the PS3' photo

Ever since the early days of the PlayStation 2, the number one biggest weapon in an anti-Sony fanboy's arsenal has been the "it's more difficult to develop for" bomb. Things haven't changed much with the PS3, and now even developers are are saying it, which lead many to speculate that PS3 game delays happen for this reason.

The team behind Ubisoft's Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter and it's upcoming sequel are saying just the opposite.

"It's wrong to say it's harder to code on the PlayStation 3, it's just something that needs to be learnt," said Le Tensorer, co-founder of Ubisoft's Tiwak studio and co-creator of the Yeti engine powering GRAW and the upcoming Beowulf game. "It's not harder to develop on the PS3 than it is on the 360, it's just a different console. Developers might says it's harder because it just takes time to understand the technology, we're still early in the lifecycle."

Adrian Lacey, international brand manager for Ubisoft, joins Le Tensorer in pointing out the PS2's history as an example.

"For us it's been a learning curve and technology changes very quickly. We're learning step-by-step to use the PS3 to its fullest capacity," Lacey said. "If you take the PS2 for example, when God of War come out people saw it was tremendous. But it wasn't until the end of the PS2 cycle that we've seen the machine being pushed to its fullest."

 [Via GamesIndustry]








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Dale North is Destructoid's Editor-In-Chief, a founding editor, and specialist in Japanese gaming. An accomplished musician, Dale was reporting from Japan during the earthquakes of 2011. Luckily, he got the fuck out alive and is home in America now with his wife and beloved corgi, Einstein. Dale is also a co-founder of Destructoid's sister anime site Japanator. Likes Corgis, Sega Saturn, PSP, iPhone, Photographic tools. Meet the rest of the team



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25 comments | showing # 1 to 25
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linuxguy's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 10:09
linuxguy
words of wisdom
jerrt's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 10:17
jerrt
i had a feeling that it was just as hard to code for, just different. I mean if i knew how to develop code for a console that i had been working with for a year or more, then a new machine comes out that has a different architecture, i would say at first it was hard, but in reality it would just be a reflection of the reeducation process, not any real difficulty.
AngelsDontBurn's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 10:25
AngelsDontBurn
They're really changing the name! I believe the name of the new game is along the lines of...

Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter 2: Killing Mexican Folks PS3 Edition 2007
UltraDSA's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 10:27
UltraDSA
Dev's need to be gett'in there learnt on!
Maurice Tan's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 10:49
Maurice Tan
Some call it hard, some call it "easy when you've learned it".

The last time I talked about how hard something was, Chris Hansen came to trap me :(
DeusPayne's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 11:07
DeusPayne
Code development is an attempt at science, but in actuality it's an evolving organism. I'm sure Sony packaged everything into neat little APIs for people to use. It will just take a while to get used to using them. It's like that with any platform. But once you get used to it, it's a breeze. The PS3 'delays due to it being too hard' hold some water, but IMO is mostly just lazy/incompetent developers finding the easy scapegoat. Yes, learning to properly use Sony's packages will take time, but it shouldn't take months upon months of extra time. At most, a decent programmer should be able to pick up a new platform within 2-3 weeks of using it.
Samit Sarkar's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 11:44
Samit Sarkar
Thank you, GRAW team. Hopefully, with more statements from developers along these lines, we’ll stop getting the bullshit “defenses” (like this one from EA regarding the inadequacies of the PS3 version of Madden NFL 08 as opposed to the 360 version) from developers who just can’t cut the mustard with PS3 games. I hate that excuse. It’s such a fucking cop-out; you might as well just say, “We suck at developing.”
Cowboy TTop's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 12:02
Cowboy TTop
Ubisoft have there own opinions on the matter. However, difficulty with PS3 will differ for every different developer. Its not about being lazy or busy, its about Sony being smart asses with PS3s creation. Sure, it takes time to get to grips with any tech, but those that do have problems or not should be free to say so.

Why do you think 360 has so many games on it? Time and easier to program for. Now you know why PS3 has so many delayed game on its list.
Jake Clarke's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 12:47
Jake Clarke
Ao basically its still harder to program for because its different.
gamesronlygames's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 13:03
gamesronlygames
sony will rock your world ms fanboys naysayers!
Comrade Snarky's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 13:09
Comrade Snarky
You tell those PS3 naysayers, Ubisoft! That'll learnt 'em!
Coonskin05's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 13:21
Coonskin05
What Ubisoft? I can't hear you with Sony's dick so far down your throat.
Frohike's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 15:18
Frohike
A new toolset just means more time and money on the development side, and correspondingly on the QA side (more testing cycles to tease out the bugs from the new toolset). It's not a "cop-out", it's just a reality until more people learn the toolset and get comfortable with the API. So, in essence, yeah, the PS3 is comparatively harder to develop for and takes some effort to learn.

I don't get what Ubi's counter argument is, actually. It amounts to them saying, "the PS3 isn't hard to program for; you just need to spend the time and effort to learn the new toolset." Time and effort translates to more difficulty than using a known toolset. So to me, they end up sounding like "the PS3 isn't that hard to program for, it's just more difficult at first" Um... OK? Captain Obvious to the rescue.
thisissami's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 15:30
thisissami
coonskin you're a fucking piece of shit. every single post i've ever read by you on destructoid (and that's a lot) has just been a load of crap and not worth posting. this comic is for you:

http://www.penny-arcade.com/docs/internetdickwad.jpg

describes you perfectly. except you're probably an idiot... not a normal person.
thisissami's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 15:32
thisissami
@frohike... i read it like the following: "the ps3 and 360 are exactly the same. had the 360 and PS3 launches been switched, everybody would have been complaining about the 360 being too hard to complain for."
thisissami's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 15:40
thisissami
sorry i meant to say code for, not complain for (really sorry for the triple post btw. is there any way to edit a comment?)
Frohike's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 15:45
Frohike
"It just takes time to understand the technology" on a project timeline amounts to pushing dates back. It doesn't reflect on the inferiority or inherent overcomplexity of a console, it's just a reality of project management. Yep, PS3's the relative newcomer, and yeah stuff will take longer to develop for it. So what?

Ubi seems to be making a semantic "correction" that doesn't make sense, or sounds tautological. At least to me.
Crunshii's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 15:45
Crunshii
nope, once your post its ovaaaaa!!! but yea, Sony got delayed on the SDK for developers cuz the technology actually belongs to IBM, and even IBM didnt have finished the Toolkits to send out, thats why Sony and third dev are behind, but once they do grab the power of the lolcell, watch out, lazer beams will blow off ur eye lids.
Corak's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 16:23
Corak
I guess learning new things is out of the reach of programmers who say how hard it is to code a new console. I guess they wanted something where they didn't have to do any new work and everything would work out fine. Well news flash, the coding part of the industry changes, and will continue to change with every new console that is released, get used to it, shut the eff up, and do your damn job.
10BobMarleys's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 18:07
10BobMarleys
If it takes the entire life cycle of a console to figure out how to program for it, I think it's safe to say that it is difficult to develop for.
Coonskin05's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 19:41
Coonskin05
@thisissammi-hey man, I'm sorry that you think I'm a "fucking piece of shit". I think if you have read my c-blogs and not just my posts on different articles, you would see that I do contribute a lot around here. Yes, sometimes I make sarcastic remarks or make fun of things/people, but you have to learn that things aren't taken too seriously around here. Hopefully you will reconsider me as more than an "idiot".


And now to actually reply to the post, I still hold my stance like this. Saying that "It's wrong to say it's harder to code on the PlayStation 3, it's just something that needs to be learnt" doesn't really mean much. I think Calculus is hard. People that have learnt calculus think it's easy. But the majority of people think that calculus is hard, so it is accepted as hard. Of course if you take the time to master something it will be easy for you, but that doesn't mean it wasn't once hard.
thisissami's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/18/2007 03:46
thisissami
@coonskin05 alright i guess i can reconsider you :P it's just that every single comment post i've ever read by you has had the same "overly sarcastic/perverted" mentality/tone, so that's the only impression i ever got from you... also since a lot of times you're the only one who writes things of that sort on pages (i.e. this page).

replying to you're actual comment on PS3 development, i see what you're saying, but i think it's more along the line of the ps3 just hasn't been around long enough to get used to coding for it... i mean the 360 dev kits have been out for a year or two longer, haven't they? but yeah, if they mean what you said, then they are idiots for saying it. i just don't think that's what they meant.
Burnt Meatloaf's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/18/2007 05:03
Burnt Meatloaf
Consoles are usually based on proprietary hardware. They all have a learning curve.

The 360 is the oddball because of its PC dev tools which have actually been in development for decades. If a PS3 isn't a 360, then of course coding it is impossible! Industry-standard APIs like OpenGL count for nothing. Gee, I guess all those N64 programmers were having a blast with the cranky RCP chip and MIPS machine code.

Regarding EA, that is a company that releases games flooded with bugs, and then they blame framerates on technical issues. Learn how to make good, structured code, first.
rabican's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/19/2007 23:36
rabican
Doesn't anyone find it interesting that Don Mattrick took over Peter Moore's position and Peter Moore went to EA? No wonder madden 08 runs better on 360, they are all in CAHOOTS
hornetjockey's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/20/2009 11:41
hornetjockey
Most people learn to code on PC, and this gives Microsoft the advantage. If you've dealt with the Direct-X APIs before, you can program for the (Direct)Xbox 360. Moving over to the PS3 which more closely resembles OpenGL, plus it has *7 CORES*, sure there is a learning curve. I don't think it is necessarily unfair to say it is more difficult either.
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