surf dtoid with 
Rising (10+)
People you follow
Someone should free the hell out of America, the way it tries to police the world and the internet.
What if other countries do the same thing to U.S based sites, would America stand still for that¿ Hell No! Someone should just "Vendetta" these politicians/the copyright sham industry and Hollywood.
What if other countries do the same thing to U.S based sites, would America stand still for that¿ Hell No! Someone should just "Vendetta" these politicians/the copyright sham industry and Hollywood.
Inelegant, that is a perfect word to use in regards to many aspects of these bills. Not only do these bills show an appalling lack of critical thinking on the part of those who have written/supported it, but a lack of interest in critical thought at all. They're trying to control a flood of grape jelly by squeezing it ever tighter, and that is going to happen is more and more is going slip through their fingers.
These bills aren't based on well researched analysis, they're based on anger and greed as publishers of entertainment lose the massive amounts of control over the way their goods are consumed they enjoyed previously. They can no longer excel wildly using their dated business models, and instead of changing those models, they want the kind of tighter control that would allow them to continue with business as usual. They don't want to understand the changing of the market around them, they want to control its flow.
We have more power over how we consume entertainment than we have ever had. The solution to the abuse of that power should not be allowing the opposite end of the scale to abuse theirs. Understanding, common sense, and the treatment of all parties involved as human beings rather than potential threats and enemies would go a long way.
These bills aren't based on well researched analysis, they're based on anger and greed as publishers of entertainment lose the massive amounts of control over the way their goods are consumed they enjoyed previously. They can no longer excel wildly using their dated business models, and instead of changing those models, they want the kind of tighter control that would allow them to continue with business as usual. They don't want to understand the changing of the market around them, they want to control its flow.
We have more power over how we consume entertainment than we have ever had. The solution to the abuse of that power should not be allowing the opposite end of the scale to abuse theirs. Understanding, common sense, and the treatment of all parties involved as human beings rather than potential threats and enemies would go a long way.
i think a very poignant issue that they don't seem to have considered is the probability of successful internet companies moving their offices and servers outside the USA.
currently the USA seems to have a healthy internet based industry, especially with google based in california, but in order to keep their hold on the search engine top spot, I can see google abandoning the USA for another country to prevent the type of meddling that will hurt their business.
currently the USA seems to have a healthy internet based industry, especially with google based in california, but in order to keep their hold on the search engine top spot, I can see google abandoning the USA for another country to prevent the type of meddling that will hurt their business.
'We as gamers occupy a unique position in society. We're vocal, we're intense, we're connected, and we're technologically savvy.'
We're also apathetic because we're certain that "this will not pass." That bill about selling violent games to minors fell through too, so we're largely an invincible medium. And that's where we'll fail. They don't need to have everything pass. Just one little thing to establish precedent and we're done. Would that be a continual case-breaker? No, but a victory leads to more precedent and...By the way, did I mention I'm not a lawyer?
But what do I care? This isn't gonna pass. We're untouchable.
We're also apathetic because we're certain that "this will not pass." That bill about selling violent games to minors fell through too, so we're largely an invincible medium. And that's where we'll fail. They don't need to have everything pass. Just one little thing to establish precedent and we're done. Would that be a continual case-breaker? No, but a victory leads to more precedent and...By the way, did I mention I'm not a lawyer?
But what do I care? This isn't gonna pass. We're untouchable.
"We're also apathetic because we're certain that "this will not pass.""
Not just that but the idea of "this is the way things are going so why fight it?" A large chunk of people would rather just go back to reading about their games than actually stand up for themselves. If people actually stopped just giving in at the first sign of resistance maybe we could stop anti-consumer policies, corporate and governmental. But that takes effort.
Not just that but the idea of "this is the way things are going so why fight it?" A large chunk of people would rather just go back to reading about their games than actually stand up for themselves. If people actually stopped just giving in at the first sign of resistance maybe we could stop anti-consumer policies, corporate and governmental. But that takes effort.
@BkV
agreed.
it seems it's the usual America thing where they meddle in international affairs which doesn't even concern them.
i mean they can't even fix their own problems. what gives them the right to act as a medium to all of this.
i agree that no matter what kind of DRM you put it in place. there's always ALWAYS a way hackers will find a way on this.
what they should do is either lower their prices so that people can afford them at a reasonable price.
i mean games are $60 nowadays and even moreso in other things.
plus why not do what Udon Entertainment did.
by offering the first chapters of a manga and let the users decide if it's worth it.
what they want to do is to build an audience in this way.
they believe through quality work the audience will buy the full volume by next year.
heck they even ENCOURAGE you to share this file on bittorennt
http://www.udonentertainment.com/blog/udon/makeshift-miracle-on-bittorrent/
agreed.
it seems it's the usual America thing where they meddle in international affairs which doesn't even concern them.
i mean they can't even fix their own problems. what gives them the right to act as a medium to all of this.
i agree that no matter what kind of DRM you put it in place. there's always ALWAYS a way hackers will find a way on this.
what they should do is either lower their prices so that people can afford them at a reasonable price.
i mean games are $60 nowadays and even moreso in other things.
plus why not do what Udon Entertainment did.
by offering the first chapters of a manga and let the users decide if it's worth it.
what they want to do is to build an audience in this way.
they believe through quality work the audience will buy the full volume by next year.
heck they even ENCOURAGE you to share this file on bittorennt
http://www.udonentertainment.com/blog/udon/makeshift-miracle-on-bittorrent/
As bad as the piracy problem is with any industry this is certainly not the fucking answer. I posted SOPA on my facebook page but no one I know seems to give a shit. I think the industry needs another crash lol.
Unfortuantely, Rabite has hit the nail on the head. That apathy is something I see far too often, especially here on Destructoid. In particular, you can find it when it comes to issues such as the growing trend of online passes. Many gamers simply don't bother taking a stand for themselves and fellow gamer consumers, and just accept "this is the way things will be now" rather than saying "this is bullshit!" I hate to say it, but "I don't care if it doesn't affect me personally" is a common theme among gamers.
@OneRed
Well thats just it my friend. Corporations, despite having the same human rights as any American, don't think of us as human beings but rather human resources.
Well thats just it my friend. Corporations, despite having the same human rights as any American, don't think of us as human beings but rather human resources.
The one thing we have to remember is that many of the people in power are at the beck and call of the lobbyists. Many of whom are from the **IA, Hollywood, what have you. We elect them...to listen to people who are not us. Is that true across the board? No, but I have a low opinion of politicians, so BIAS. After all, how is 'politicial promise' used today?
I honestly think the best way to promote this is to say that it's going to shut down Farmville/Angry Birds/Facebook/YouTube. YouTube is probably going to suffer the most damage, since Let's Plays and video reviews and all...Actually, YouTube is pretty easy to take down videos with copyright notices, if you lie about who you are. It happened to the guy who made the Nyan Cat video.
It's either going to be a vicious battle or it's going to be a curb-stomp.
I honestly think the best way to promote this is to say that it's going to shut down Farmville/Angry Birds/Facebook/YouTube. YouTube is probably going to suffer the most damage, since Let's Plays and video reviews and all...Actually, YouTube is pretty easy to take down videos with copyright notices, if you lie about who you are. It happened to the guy who made the Nyan Cat video.
It's either going to be a vicious battle or it's going to be a curb-stomp.
@Flint
Its hard when you have assholes lined up to defend the new status quo and one gets insulted for trying to stick up for their fellow gamers.
The funny thing about most of my gripes is that a lot don't actually affect me. I play PC most often so online passes are never a real problem for me, but I think its bullshit my fellow gamers can't enjoy the same things without there being some barrier put in place.
This was an excellent article and I hope we can all keep fighting the good fight against this draconian mindset that's been trying to settle its way into our industry.
Its hard when you have assholes lined up to defend the new status quo and one gets insulted for trying to stick up for their fellow gamers.
The funny thing about most of my gripes is that a lot don't actually affect me. I play PC most often so online passes are never a real problem for me, but I think its bullshit my fellow gamers can't enjoy the same things without there being some barrier put in place.
This was an excellent article and I hope we can all keep fighting the good fight against this draconian mindset that's been trying to settle its way into our industry.
What is also often ignored is the usefulness of piracy in engaging people in these industries. I had given up on gaming due to exorbitant reatail prices and lack of funds. but now I'm hooked and spend all my spare cash on games and never pirate.
I'd go so far as to say that the gaming industry in South Africa relied on piracy for many years. Yet its now a growing concern.
I'd go so far as to say that the gaming industry in South Africa relied on piracy for many years. Yet its now a growing concern.
@Spaz: The whole SOPA problem is beyond the gaming industry. And it will be rooted within our own American Government.
I heard that Obama plans on vetoing this bill, but if it got 2/3rds the vote across the House and Senate, then his veto may mean jack.
I heard that Obama plans on vetoing this bill, but if it got 2/3rds the vote across the House and Senate, then his veto may mean jack.
Wrote up a really long comment before figuring that I'm in Aus and have no influence whatsoever on USA politicians. That and I have my own political issues to deal with, given our politicians down this way can apparently buy their way into parliament using tax payer money they don't have access to..
But in a tl;dr kind of way:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/115300/?snr=1_4_4__13
http://store.steampowered.com/app/115300/
Same game, same currency, $40 difference, one is the US store and the other is the Aus store. I pay more because I had the misfortune of being born in a different country to the copyright holder. Waltzing Matilda, Australian song, copyrighted by some company in the USA after the death of the author.
Why would anyone support these kind of bills? Copyright is the life of the author plus fifty years, all proceeds going to the author and his direct descendants, and in the case of no children lapsing. How hard is that? Now we have faceless organisations somehow controlling all copyright and blackmailing and otherwise suing random people out of existence for material they may or may not have accessed.
Why does the USA population not care enough in order to get rid of all politicians who support this? More to the point, what magical glitch exists that lets USA bills get enforced over here and how do I destroy it.
But in a tl;dr kind of way:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/115300/?snr=1_4_4__13
http://store.steampowered.com/app/115300/
Same game, same currency, $40 difference, one is the US store and the other is the Aus store. I pay more because I had the misfortune of being born in a different country to the copyright holder. Waltzing Matilda, Australian song, copyrighted by some company in the USA after the death of the author.
Why would anyone support these kind of bills? Copyright is the life of the author plus fifty years, all proceeds going to the author and his direct descendants, and in the case of no children lapsing. How hard is that? Now we have faceless organisations somehow controlling all copyright and blackmailing and otherwise suing random people out of existence for material they may or may not have accessed.
Why does the USA population not care enough in order to get rid of all politicians who support this? More to the point, what magical glitch exists that lets USA bills get enforced over here and how do I destroy it.
If this passes in 20 years people will all be so shocked while they discover monopoly with complete control over gaming industry. This is precisely the process which has cartelized huge parts of all western economies. Big boys come to the government to help them in their plight. Govt obliges with a reasonably sounding regulation. Playing field is no longer even. Current big boys problem is not competition from the little guys, but pirates. Result will be the same.
Huge entertainment companies with large legal divisions will be able to easily damage everybody else. By dragging advertisers into this they are creating effective weapon that will be frequently used. They will blast from all guns to make as much damage as possible and scare advertisers all around the net. After all advertisers want their product seen, not problems and fines. Only safe places will be owned by sponsors of the bill. Destructoid might well get a hit from this too. There's no problem to upload some copyrighted material to a hosted blog and that smack it. "I guess you can adv on Destr but is it really safe? You know they have so many community blogs hosted... there're safer places. Well, they cost more, but do you really want the risky option?" Protection racket with copyright. Nice.
BTW Think of "great" ways of future expansion of such a system. After all there's still going to be piracy and copyright "infringement" after this bill. This is still reaction-based. You can unsupervised put anything you want, where you want. Only that as you misbehave you are targeted. This bill will just make people "around you" also targeted, and speed up the process. Next step after failure of this one, is not allowing misbehavior in the first place, by controlling all content before it's available. This is what must be done to stop piracy. If someone screens everything - he's going to get first pirated copy and stop it from becoming million copies.
Huge entertainment companies with large legal divisions will be able to easily damage everybody else. By dragging advertisers into this they are creating effective weapon that will be frequently used. They will blast from all guns to make as much damage as possible and scare advertisers all around the net. After all advertisers want their product seen, not problems and fines. Only safe places will be owned by sponsors of the bill. Destructoid might well get a hit from this too. There's no problem to upload some copyrighted material to a hosted blog and that smack it. "I guess you can adv on Destr but is it really safe? You know they have so many community blogs hosted... there're safer places. Well, they cost more, but do you really want the risky option?" Protection racket with copyright. Nice.
BTW Think of "great" ways of future expansion of such a system. After all there's still going to be piracy and copyright "infringement" after this bill. This is still reaction-based. You can unsupervised put anything you want, where you want. Only that as you misbehave you are targeted. This bill will just make people "around you" also targeted, and speed up the process. Next step after failure of this one, is not allowing misbehavior in the first place, by controlling all content before it's available. This is what must be done to stop piracy. If someone screens everything - he's going to get first pirated copy and stop it from becoming million copies.
I say pass this shit. Taking away America's Internet is likely the only thing that would rile the populace enough to make some necessary and drastic changes on how things are done in this country.
Yay congress, they can't get anything done unless it's for their constituents. And by that, I mean their generous campaign donors.
Well, well. That won't stop pirates, so they have to bring up even more laws and at some point we are all caged up thanks to those nice pirates who never know when to stop.
They are similiar to the bankers in some ways. ;)
They are similiar to the bankers in some ways. ;)
I have an honest question for everyone who is against these bills.
How do you fix the problem of piracy then?
Quite honestly there is little to no accountability for most components of Internet companies involved with illegal activity. I read the following section and thought about which companies they were going after....
"The PROTECT IP Act allows IP holders to not only request that sites take down content which they believe is copyright infringing but also allows IP holders to go after advertisers on the website, domain registrars, and payment processors. These people would share liability for any illegal actions a website might be taking. Does this seem fair?"
While the question at the end strikes a resounding NO for me, at what point do you hold some of the companies liable for their involvement in illegal activity. They talk about advertisers and payment processors because they want to keep illegal sites from making money from people going there. They talk about hosting companies and registers because they want to see more proactive control over the content they are permitting and hosting. Quite honestly if the Internet industry doesn't want to be regulated by the government then they need to step up and take steps to self regulate. The only reason the gaming industry has avoided it for so long in my opinion is because they have been active in trying to do it themselves.
Sitting here and saying "Hell NO! We won't go!" isn't doing crap to fix the issue. Offer some alternatives then to the solution. I quite honestly think they need to change how the Internet is run for some time given the holes that pirates use to operate.
How do you fix the problem of piracy then?
Quite honestly there is little to no accountability for most components of Internet companies involved with illegal activity. I read the following section and thought about which companies they were going after....
"The PROTECT IP Act allows IP holders to not only request that sites take down content which they believe is copyright infringing but also allows IP holders to go after advertisers on the website, domain registrars, and payment processors. These people would share liability for any illegal actions a website might be taking. Does this seem fair?"
While the question at the end strikes a resounding NO for me, at what point do you hold some of the companies liable for their involvement in illegal activity. They talk about advertisers and payment processors because they want to keep illegal sites from making money from people going there. They talk about hosting companies and registers because they want to see more proactive control over the content they are permitting and hosting. Quite honestly if the Internet industry doesn't want to be regulated by the government then they need to step up and take steps to self regulate. The only reason the gaming industry has avoided it for so long in my opinion is because they have been active in trying to do it themselves.
Sitting here and saying "Hell NO! We won't go!" isn't doing crap to fix the issue. Offer some alternatives then to the solution. I quite honestly think they need to change how the Internet is run for some time given the holes that pirates use to operate.
Wanna stop game piracy, big fancy publishers? Make your fucking developers make their game worth owning. Wanna charge me $80 for half a game, then make me pay $40 to unlock the rest of it in a few months, even though it's on the disc? You're god damn right I'm gonna steal it. Restrict me from playing offline? You're not gonna see my money, plain and simple. However, if you tell me I get a full game, optional DLC, I can play offline, have no DRM bullshit and genuinely OWN the game I PAID FOR, you're going to, quite literally, have free access to my wallet.
Valve lets me do whatever I want with their games, so I will always pay for their games. No exceptions. The industry should learn from Valve.
Valve lets me do whatever I want with their games, so I will always pay for their games. No exceptions. The industry should learn from Valve.
Wanna stop game piracy, big fancy publishers? Make your fucking developers make their game worth owning. Wanna charge me $80 for half a game, then make me pay $40 to unlock the rest of it in a few months, even though it's on the disc? You're god damn right I'm gonna steal it. Restrict me from playing offline? You're not gonna see my money, plain and simple. However, if you tell me I get a full game, optional DLC, I can play offline, have no DRM bullshit and genuinely OWN the game I PAID FOR, you're going to, quite literally, have free access to my wallet.
Valve lets me do whatever I want with their games, so I will always pay for their games. No exceptions. The industry should learn from Valve.
Valve lets me do whatever I want with their games, so I will always pay for their games. No exceptions. The industry should learn from Valve.
" Almost 50% of the users surveyed stated that one of the main reasons why they pirated games was the lack of perceived value of the package. "
While I agree that DRM is useless, this is stupid to believe in as well.
These people are thieves, plain and simple, why wouldn't they lie about why as well?
While I agree that DRM is useless, this is stupid to believe in as well.
These people are thieves, plain and simple, why wouldn't they lie about why as well?
Want proof pirates aren't noble crusaders against big companies?
http://www.joystiq.com/2010/05/10/one-quarter-of-humble-indie-bundle-downloads-were-pirated/
http://www.joystiq.com/2010/05/10/one-quarter-of-humble-indie-bundle-downloads-were-pirated/
follow
