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I'd never heard of Glenn Beck before I spent a month in America, and I must confess I fell in the love with the guy when I first saw him last year. Not only did he look a bit like Mr. Kennedy from WWE, he was absolutely tearing a pedophile apart, live on air. I thought he was awesome. Now I see him rambling like crazy about GTA, using the same old outdated rhetoric and twisted logic as his peers, and the illusion has been shattered.

"We are training our kids to be killers," proclaims Beck. "Welcome to the great great grandfather of the videogame developed by the Pentagon." Beck is another one who has tied the use of the military's simulation software to videogames, as if they are one and the same. He also hinges on the logic that because soldiers wouldn't pull the triggers on each other in World War One, that means people were not violent until simulators taught them to be inhuman killers. He seems to hint that violence before WWI never happened -- I guess there were no crusades, there was no Feudal Japan, and the 100 Years War is something history books made up to be colorful.

He also states that because soldiers are more accurate with firearms, that means these "training simulators" are working, and once again this somehow makes videogames (which use auto-aim most of the time, or unrealistically accurate mouse-and-keyboard setups) effective training tools. He says nothing of the improvements actually made to firearms themselves which would facilitate easier use and greater accuracy. I also don't debate that a murder simulator could indeed train someone to be a murderer -- the only problem is that GTA isn't a simulator, and if you relied on just a retail videogame to prepare for war, you would be dead in minute s, if not seconds.

As he throws out stats, he claims that just television upped the homicide rate. Of course, as Rev Anthony explains on Podtoid, the crime rate in America has halved in recent times. Beck's arguments simply do not hold water. Having seen this man before with no prior knowledge of his work, it has to say I feel somewhat let down by a man who I thought was pretty cool. Sadly, my European ignorance of American celebrities has led me to be disappointed. "Whatever happened to Pong?" asks Beck. Whatever happened to mainstream journalists who knew what they were talking about?


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93 comments | showing # 1 to 50

OrangeGoblin's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/03/2008 05:19
OrangeGoblin
All we can do is keep pointing out how stupid these people are and then wait for them to die.
Hamsizzla's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/03/2008 05:20
Hamsizzla
WHAT THE HELL HAVE I BEEN LEARNING IN HISTORY 1302 THIS SEMESTER? I thought that the US won the majority of battles that they fought in WWII because they fired their weapons...but my teacher is a fraud apparently. Anyways this guy is the same as all GTA haters, nothing really new to see. Although I thought it was talking about that astronaut guy before I watched the video. -_-
Mutant Pope's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/03/2008 05:26
Mutant Pope
Whatever happened to Pong?" asks Beck. Whatever happened to mainstream journalists who knew what they were talking about?

ZING! Sterling you slay me.

In other news, humans have been killing each other since we first picked up a blunt object and realized that we could use it to get the tasty fruit from the other guy over there by hitting him with it. In fact, if you look at the world, I'd say its less violent now than it ever was in the past. And video games are a recent development... so by logic, Video Games ended the cold war, prevented World War III and are leading us to a golden age of peace and prosperity (we're holding up our end of the economy, why doesn't anyone point that out?)
Cowboy TTop's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/03/2008 05:29
Cowboy TTop
More mainstream crud stuck together with spit and superglue.

They have no clue at all, and I'm tired of hearing their tripe.

Interesting, how many years have the USA had guns, and killed there own people? Don't recall videogames being blamed back then obviously, as we are such a convenient scapegoat.

More power to the games industry as it gets bigger and stronger, right in their face, while other industries stateside lose money.
Boolean's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/03/2008 05:39
Boolean
Rock music got my daughter pregnant when Elvis shook his hips on stage and shot sex from across the room. I had to beat her for 5 weeks straight to knock the evil out of her, and now she’s into drugs! Goddam rock music, ruining our kids.
mistic's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/03/2008 05:41
mistic
man I laughed my ass of at this ignorant hatespeech :-) happy they don't broadcast shit like that here in Belgium :-D
steeeveb123's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/03/2008 05:51
steeeveb123
He should be praising video games like GTA for saving the government countless billions of dollars on training soldiers to do their job. I also would think that a 100% ratio on soldiers willing to pull the trigger would actually be a good thing. BTW I didn't realize there were chainsaws in GTA 4. Thanks for the spoiler alert Glen, you jerk!
Demios's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/03/2008 05:54
Demios
That guys fucking nuts! He would have a career in Europe for about an hour before we'd storm the building with torches and pitchforks...Seriously i thought Bill O Reilly was insane...
Oolong's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/03/2008 06:04
Oolong
Dear Jim,

Glenn has a point as he's addressing this to parents. It's an adult game.

Children shouldn't be playing this, nor watching adult movies. Sure some do and some kids will eventually get their hands on it any way. But parents buying this game for their 11 year old son is wrong, and if it takes some idiot in a suit, rambling sensationalist 'murder simulator' style phrases to at least make a few parents think, then I'm all for it.

Censorship is one thing but letting Rockstar mismarket their adult games to kids and nobody, no matter how idiotic sounding, at least try and warn the parents that just because little Johnny's mother lets him play GTA4 - you should really think about it for your own child.

I was in Game the other day and the amount of 10-15 year old school kids clambering around the GTA4 stand was crazy. You don't see them doing the same thing when the latest 18+ movie comes out, you know why? Because they can't get in the cinema to see it. Maybe some of the older kids with their bum fluff and brothers ID will slip in but the rest will be refused and once the hype dies down - it'll all be forgotten.

I live in a pretty dodgy neighbourhood in North London, where we've had 16 shootings in the past year. This has NOTHING to do with video games. But that doesn't stop me feeling pretty strongly that the next time some American 'expert' bangs on about GTA4 - that you can't just slap it with the whole 'look at this sensationalist idiot trying to censor our games'. You should be all for keeping these games away from kids and keep the prostitute battering to the adults. Think about it, your starting to sound just as one sided as the people you ridicule.

Your sincerely,
Richard.
microwavefood's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/03/2008 06:05
microwavefood
shock and awe
Oolong's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/03/2008 06:06
Oolong
lol... think of the children!!11
Jim Sterling's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/03/2008 06:10
Jim Sterling
"This has NOTHING to do with video games. But that doesn't stop me feeling pretty strongly that the next time some American 'expert' bangs on about GTA4 - that you can't just slap it with the whole 'look at this sensationalist idiot trying to censor our games'. You should be all for keeping these games away from kids and keep the prostitute battering to the adults. Think about it, your starting to sound just as one sided as the people you ridicule."

I have no problem with the idea that kids shouldn't be playing it, but Beck did not stop at that. Beck said, and I quote, "We are training our kids to be killers." If that's not wrong, I don't know what is.

These people cannot just make the good points and let them stand. They embroider, and they lie, and they use illogical, inaccurate statements to make their case. That is what I cannot stand.

I usually think it's harmless to let a kid watch a scary movie or play a game with some violence in it. However, I would not be comfortable letting a kid play GTA IV -- and I do not refute statements of a similar nature. What I refute is the scaremongering and bashing that goes with it.
Hank Peters's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/03/2008 06:23
Hank Peters
Spoiler alert: The video has a part two with everyone's favorite lawyer.
Oolong's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/03/2008 06:26
Oolong
Totally agree. It's just a bit of a tightrope and you seem to be coming across it with more and more gusto these days.

I'd hate for my 10 year old niece to play this game, the idea of it scares me. But I was in Morrisions a month or so ago and this tiny kid, he must of been younger than 10, picked up GTA:Vice City for Xbox and walked straight thru the checkout with it. £8.99 of hard earned pocket money. He wouldn't of been able to do that with an 18 movie, they would of stopped him.

Video games and movies don't seem to abide to the same classification. I think that's something that needs looking at. Government TV campaign, rising awareness to parents that these games are not for kids and it's illegal would be a good start, don't you think?
BlackSunEmpire's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/03/2008 06:27
BlackSunEmpire
You guys still watch TV out there?? I've been hiding in a cave waiting for the end of humanity ever since GTAIV was released. Didn't you guys hear?? This is the end of morality, or so the media moral crusaders seem to tell us.

Once the world ends, I'll leave my cave, but until then, it's dangerous out there.
Fading Star's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/03/2008 06:34
Fading Star
.....

Glenn Beck, just stop.

Speaking of (What appears to be) nonsensical rambling, here is an "opinion" piece from ABC News.com

[url=http://abcnews.go.com/Business/IndustryInfo/Story?id=4767635&page=1
]Grand Theft Auto and Business[/url]
j0e's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/03/2008 06:35
j0e
you guys must not follow right wing politics. glenn beck is one of the worst fascist propagandists working for the right wing right now, and that's saying a LOT.

read some of his greatest hits at http://mediamatters.org/items/200601200013

for example:
"[I]f I'm an interrogator, and they say, [imitates Arabic accent] 'I read in your papers that you cannot torture me,' I'll say, 'Yeah, you know, you saw another thing in the papers, you saw pictures of people being tortured. And I just want you to look around, little, uh, Habib, here, I want you to look around the room. Notice one thing is missing, and that's called a camera.' "
Mxyzptlk's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/03/2008 07:14
Mxyzptlk
Wow, that ABC opinion piece is hilarious. Why doesn't Amazon.com and other retail sites have a fully realized 3D virtual shop interface? Umm, because of accessibility genius. Most people don't have a PC capable of displaying such a thing.

I enjoy listening to Glen Beck's radio show, just because I love hearing the insane leaps of logic he and other pundits use to make their case about the latest thing destroying American values.
Poopface Morty's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/03/2008 07:49
Poopface Morty
The best thing we can do with Glenn Beck is to never pay him lip-service, ever. I'm even contradicting myself by just talking about the guy, but seriously, this is the kind of guy you just don't take seriously. As Mxy said, his bounds of logic are beyond ridiculous, and almost comedic to watch in their own right, but I still won't give him the satisfaction of the ratings boost (YouTube is your friend, I guess).

Glenn Beck is just one reason of many why I simply don't watch TV at all anymore.
nukka jdav's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/03/2008 08:09
nukka jdav
This depresses me....but I think I've realized something.

I tend to act more violent when I hear people of this nature speak the way they do. They just piss me the fuck off. I'm not gonna do anything to fuel the fire. I'm sure they don't care if the entire community of gamers hates them. It just might prove his point even further when we act like a crazed mob. It just makes me sad to see such ignorant people. I doubt hes even played the game. What a fuckin hobo. When I play GTA, I never feel violent. Yeah, I'll go on crazy cop chase scenes and kill a hooker here and there, but when it comes to those moral choices you have to make in the game, the ones where emotion is actually involved, I just CAN'T kill the innocent man. I can't, haha.

Glen Beck...pfff...more like...more like...eh I give up.
Joseph Leray's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/03/2008 08:20
Joseph Leray
Soliders in WWII started shooting more because training methods changed after WWI. In WWI, soldiers, generally, shot at people -- that is to say, they shot at enemy soldiers they could see. After that, when the military realized that that method wasn't particularly effective, they changed tactics. Ammunition got cheaper, and the military started training soldiers to shoot at sounds, or movement. Shooting became Pavlovian -- something moves? Shoot it. You hear a sound? Shoot it.

Sure, a lot more bullets were wasted, but a lot less lives were lost (at least on our side). It doesn't have anything to do with "murder simulation" (we had murder sims in the 40s? Before TV?), but with really basic psychology.

@Oolong -- to reiterate Jim's point: I don't want kids playing GTA either, and I'm not particularly opposed to stricter regulations. I think retailers (and parents) should be held accountable, but I don't think that misinformation and scaremongering is the right way to do it.
Eschatos's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/03/2008 08:26
Eschatos
He could have had the support of the majority of the gamer community if he just said that GTA wasn't for kids and used logic to support his point. Now he gets our derision. Great job.
foxhound009's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/03/2008 08:50
foxhound009
how about no more GTA4 whoring for a week?
Jim Sterling's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/03/2008 09:06
Jim Sterling
How about sssh?
naib's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/03/2008 09:12
naib
I used to listen to Glenn Beck to get my blood pumping in the morning. You wouldn't believe some of the crap this guys says.

No one surprised here.

I was listening to some local guy on the radio and he kept saying you could rape people in GTA IV. I think my copy is busted.
mrlokievil's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/03/2008 09:22
mrlokievil
I've been watching violent movies and games since I was a kid and I am the least violent person I know. Always went to school and had excellent grades. I have no desire to actually kill someone nor do I think I even have the ability to do so.

I don't think that keeping it out of kids hands is the answer. It's like abstinence only sew education, it doesn't work. Parents need to teach their kids that what they are seeing or playing isn't real and that it's not acceptable to do in real life. Parents need to teach their kids values and responsibility. Keeping kids sheltered does more harm than good.
ZombiePlatypus's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/03/2008 09:26
ZombiePlatypus
This segment was on the other day at the restaurant I was at for dinner, there was no volume, and me not being a big time news watcher I didn't know who he was, but I knew he was an idiot. Now I can actually hear what he was saying.

Grand Theft Morality?
Grand Theft Auto Version 4?
WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW: THIS GAME CELEBRATES MURDER?
Your son/husband/boyfriend can do these horrible things, but he doesn't mention your daughter/wife/girlfriend? Only devious males play these games, eh?
Fuck him.

He also had that wunderkind Jack Thompson on immediately after this segment, along with some other guy, but like I said, no volume, so I haven't a clue what kind of nice things they had to say...
Loki Power's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/03/2008 09:44
Loki Power
@naib

Wait you can have Oral or Anal?...sweet
naib's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/03/2008 09:53
naib
Again, I think my copy is busted..

WTF?
mister1337's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/03/2008 09:54
mister1337
Who the Crap said that this game was aimed at Kids?
**NEWS FLASH**
More adults play video games than kids!
Snoopbob2006's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/03/2008 10:06
Snoopbob2006
hes just pissed off cos when he hires a prostitute he doesnt get to beat her with a baseball bat
Release82's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/03/2008 10:20
Release82
I agree that this guy is full of hot air, doesn't have his facts right, looks like a dbag etc etc ...but... I really do think that in the end he'll do a lot to make parents aware of what the game does contain and will hopefully encourage them to keep this away from their young kids.
The-Excel's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/03/2008 10:56
The-Excel
All you need to know is that Glenn Beck is the same guy who insisted that American currency conceals hidden images of the WTC attacks.
Violet Son's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/03/2008 11:06
Violet Son
There's a pretty extensive body of research within the field of instructional design regarding the efficacy of simulation. Most analysts would probably agree that games can teach tactics fairly well (positioning, cover, etc) but when it comes to physical skills like aiming or dealing with recoil or loading, the simulation we've seen so far in games is very poor.

In a nutshell, if the goal was to produce an effective killer, most training analysts would consider video games a very poor learning tool. Paintball would be a much more effective simulation.
Alpha 87655320875's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/03/2008 11:10
Alpha 87655320875
Since when did they start making guns with d pads?

P.s. Pew pew pew
The-Excel's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/03/2008 11:13
The-Excel
@Violet Son:
Where did you read that? I'm interested in those findings.
Violet Son's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/03/2008 11:18
Violet Son
DOUBLE POST!

But I am incredibly glad for the strident ignorance of pundits like Glenn Beck. Most kids can call bullshit on panic pieces like this, which hopefully means they won't be so quick to swallow what is fed to them in the future. You just shot your career future in the foot, asshole.
Violet Son's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/03/2008 11:31
Violet Son
@The-Excel

I can't remember the specific journals or articles where I first learned about it, but its a pretty much a given in the field.

You could probably find a relevant article by searching for "Instructional design" "simulation" and "psychomotor"

(as you can probably figure out 'Psychomotor' is body training, as opposed to 'cognitive' which is the mind, and 'affective' which is emotions.)
Namelessted's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/03/2008 12:13
Namelessted
He said that the first three GTA games sold 70 million copies world wide. I know that to be a complete lie. When he makes such outlandish claims as that, there is no reason to listen to anything else that he has to say. He obviously is fucking retarded and has no idea what he is talking about.

He talks about the firing rate of soldiers going up as if it is a bad thing. I see it as a good thing myself. I mean, it is good that are soldiers will shoot a person the first time when they have to, that results in less of our troops deaths. But that isn't attributed to retail video games.

It is true that the government uses forms of video games to train soldiers, but they are very different from games like GTA. One of the military's biggest projects in recent times, which was later transformed into Full Spectrum Warrior, is a great game to emphasize teamwork.

The original version of the "game" is actually very boring and can take hours to complete missions. But it is a superb tool to train soldiers as they can map out entire real location, give the soldiers a mission, and have them go in and complete the mission. The purpose of this is to build teamwork and to learn to adapt to unexpected events, not to learn how to shoot people.


It pisses me off even more that they have Jack Thompson on the show. I like the line where he says, "oh no, there have been dozens" in response to how many people have killed people because of GTA.
Namelessted's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/03/2008 12:14
Namelessted
HOLY SHIT. THEY BROADCAST THE WORD "SHIT" ON CNN.

everybody needs to hear this. Go to 2:28 in part 2 of the video where he runs over the prostitute. you hear somebody say "oh, shit" in the background. that is fucking great. that just made my day.
Spartacus's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/03/2008 12:20
Spartacus
From part 2: "So there was one kid that went bad..."

"Oh no. There have been dozens."

OUT OF THE 80 FUCKING MILLION WHO HAVE BOUGHT IT? THAT'S HARDLY MORE THAN ONE
sushi111's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/03/2008 12:22
sushi111
Guys whats the point of complaining, this is fucking hilarious. This doesnt make me angry, this makes me laugh.

Actually this does make me angry... anybody want to go kill Jack Thompson.
sushi111's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/03/2008 12:31
sushi111
Thing is though after I beat Guitar Hero on expert I still couldnt play real guitar, so I to go pick up a real one to learn how to play.

Likewise, after Grand Theft Auto, I didnt know how to kill a prostitute so I had to pick up a real one.
Respectable Gentleman's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/03/2008 12:40
Respectable Gentleman
They're still using the old "kill the hooker" offense.
rbrooks's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/03/2008 12:41
rbrooks
everyone knows this guy is a joke...whats the big deal. i haven't killed a hooker yet...and i don't know if i will... i like the work they do. It keeps niko happy.
manta's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/03/2008 12:51
manta
I'm 99% sure there's no chainsaw and no dismemberment in the new GTA. Idiots. I love how nobody actually SITS DOWN, and plays the damn game for themselves. They just get their facts from the internet.
Gil's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/03/2008 13:15
Gil
Glenn Beck believes that Al Gore speaking out on Global Warming is the same tactic as Hitler killing Jews. Don't listen to anything this man says.
Volomon's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/03/2008 13:18
Volomon
He might actually be semi very semi-right about the hesitance factor becoming less when firing upon a person. However, that doesn't at all include with it the lacking of sense to know not to do it. Personally I could easily fire on someone and to be honest it IS from games that I killed this inhibition. Again though it has not killed my sense of judgment.

Why do I say its from video games? Since my early ages in the FPS genre I have learned that hesitation causes you to lose, in the Army they teach you that hesitation can cause you to lose your life. So I transition that knowledge with the knowledge of legaleses (knowing when its legal to shoot), to know when to fire and if all fails knowing what to do to make it look like I had the right to fire (aka just like cops).
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